Why don't United look at Championship talent?

[TheReligion]

Okay hear me out. I know we went in for James and you could argue he's not really kicking on but I often wonder why United, and other big clubs, aren't willing to delve into this market more often. Surely to get value there's some good business to be done?

Players like Eze going to Palace, Perrera to WBA, Bogle to Sheff United, Lewis to Newcastle, Benrahma to WHU, Watkins to Villa, Robinson to Fulham. Deals do happen I know but all to lower status clubs.

There's some good quality in the Championship so why will no one really look at it?

Olise looks good at Reading and I'm a big fan of Josh da Silva at Brentford. Could we not exploit this market more?

Edit. Included a list of highest valued U23s in the league.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cha...s//galerie/0?pos=&detailpos=&altersklasse=u23

 

[Matriac]

Okay hear me out. I know we went in for James and you could argue he's not really kicking on but I often wonder why United, and other big clubs, aren't willing to delve into this market more often. Surely to get value there's some good business to be done?

Players like Eze going to Palace, Perrera to WBA, Bogle to Sheff United, Lewis to Newcastle, Benrahma to WHU, Watkins to Villa, Robinson to Fulham. Deals do happen I know but all to lower status clubs.

There's some good quality in the Championship so why will no one really look at it?

Olise looks good at Reading and I'm a big fan of Josh da Silva at Brentford. Could we not exploit this market more?

Unless they are U21 we rarely have room in the squad of 25 for a punt on someone that might kick on to perform well in the prem.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I agree there's good value in the championship but the step between the championship and the Premier league is huge.

For every success there are plenty of failures, I guess big clubs rather let the bottom teams take that risk while they pay up for the players who already made it.

I wouldn't mind taking a punt for a someone from the championship but definitely our transfer strategy shouldnt be based on that.

 

[One Night Only]

A lot of those players you mentioned aren't exactly smashing the game at their respective clubs. It's easier for players like them learning still to get into first teams at clubs without the top players the top clubs have. We wouldn't be able to give these guys the game time, and loaning them to a premier League club isn't always an option. Loaning to other leagues doesn't really get them the experience we would require them to get.

 

[Toad]

We have Dan James, he is clearly still Championship talent...

 

[Andycoleno9]

I prefer that we play with our kids than looking in Championship. Unless there is some huge huge talent in question.

You mentioned James. It is not that he flopped or that we gambled and lost 15 mil. That minutes should have been given to Chong or Gomes or whoever from youth team.
Buying players for backup is wrong. For that you have your kids.

 

[RashyForPM]

Okay hear me out. I know we went in for James and you could argue he's not really kicking on but I often wonder why United, and other big clubs, aren't willing to delve into this market more often. Surely to get value there's some good business to be done?

Players like Eze going to Palace, Perrera to WBA, Bogle to Sheff United, Lewis to Newcastle, Benrahma to WHU, Watkins to Villa, Robinson to Fulham. Deals do happen I know but all to lower status clubs.

There's some good quality in the Championship so why will no one really look at it?

Olise looks good at Reading and I'm a big fan of Josh da Silva at Brentford. Could we not exploit this market more?

Of those 8, only Eze and Watkins have an argument that their respective moves have been successes. The rest have ranged from underwhelming to shockers. Look at Watkins himself actually; he only has 6 goals in 16 games amidst some huffing and puffing. For example, if we get an Ivan Toney, he would fare exactly the same after top scoring in the Championship.

I’m not a fan of buying from the Championship, unless it’s someone who has already somewhat done it in the PL like Sarr, or someone who looks like he could truly become world class like Bellingham or Phillips. Even a Micheal Olise, let him go to someone like Villa or if Reading get promoted, let him have a season there to prove himself in the PL before we begin wanting to buy him.

 

[11101]

Because they're in the Championship for a reason.

The best talent, the sort that's suitable for a top PL team, has been scouted out long before they reach adult leagues. It's incredibly rare for somebody to have slipped through all those age groups and made it to a major professional league like the Championship without somebody noticing.

You might get the odd Vardy or Smalling lying completely undiscovered in non league football, but being in the Championship implies scouts and coaches have seen them at multiple levels and deemed them not good enough.

 

[uwotm8]

None of the above mentioned players are good enough for United

 

[Son]

It’s not like players who genuinely tear it up in the Championship do that well in the Premier League. Ryan Sessegnon for example. Maybe the odd exception but that’s all it would be.

The absolute cream of the crop are usually playing top level football by the time they are 20-21 if you ask me anyways. Those are the players we should be aiming for.

We have no reason to take a punt unless it’s an absolute steal which nowadays very few in the championship are realistically. Those clubs often want very good money for players considering it’s second tier.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Was certainly impressed with Cash yesterday

plenty of untapped talent, I’m sure

 

[NinjaFletch]

We obviously do, but it's rare a player is playing in the Championship who can come and instantly improve us.

All of this options in the OP would be considered flops by our standards.

Beyond that, we're rich enough to pay the extra £15-£20m to a Palace or Villa for a player they've plucked out of the Championship once they've proven their ability in the Premiership. We don't have to take the risk of them not stepping up ourselves, and championship clubs are asking a lot for their players these days.

 

[Luffy]

This thread's topic is understandable, but every Premier League club is producing its own talent. Those youth players who have not made it in the league are the ones to join the Championship.

 

[lex talionis]

The gulf in quality between the two leagues is huge. We did take a punt in the Championship on James and it’s not yet proven to be a masterful punt. Better to let the likes of Palace take these punts and if they work out brilliantly? we pluck from Palace.

 

[Random Task]

Okay hear me out. I know we went in for James and you could argue he's not really kicking on but I often wonder why United, and other big clubs, aren't willing to delve into this market more often. Surely to get value there's some good business to be done?

Players like Eze going to Palace, Perrera to WBA, Bogle to Sheff United, Lewis to Newcastle, Benrahma to WHU, Watkins to Villa, Robinson to Fulham. Deals do happen I know but all to lower status clubs.

There's some good quality in the Championship so why will no one really look at it?

Olise looks good at Reading and I'm a big fan of Josh da Silva at Brentford. Could we not exploit this market more?

Edit. Included a list of highest valued U23s in the league.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/cha...s//galerie/0?pos=&detailpos=&altersklasse=u23

The likelihood of finding a CL standard player (which is the only standard of player we should be interested in) in the Championship is so low it's not worth the effort. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bale was the last top player to come out of the Championship and that was over a decade ago, and if a player of his standard pops up in the Championship sometime in the future, the entire footballing world will be made aware anyway.

Any amount of money we invested in scouting the Championship would be off invested into our academy which has a considerably higher success rate, which is likely true of any PL club.

 

[Cassidy]

Dan James

 

[ThehatchetMan]

Tyrese Campbell at Stoke City is an excellent looking prospect, shame he's had a season ending injury

 

[JJ12]

Because they're in the Championship for a reason.

The best talent, the sort that's suitable for a top PL team, has been scouted out long before they reach adult leagues. It's incredibly rare for somebody to have slipped through all those age groups and made it to a major professional league like the Championship without somebody noticing.

You might get the odd Vardy or Smalling lying completely undiscovered in non league football, but being in the Championship implies scouts and coaches have seen them at multiple levels and deemed them not good enough.

That’s a bit short sighted.

I wish we picked up the likes of Grealish and Maddison when they were in the championship.

 

[lysglimt]

Because the majority of the players in the Championships arent good enough. They either lack quality, or they have the potential but lack experience. Take Maddson - would he have been given enough gametime for us to become what he is today ?

 

[DWelbz19]

The major problem with it (is much like buying from the PL nowadays) — prices are too inflated for the talent levels. Very rarely are the players actually worth the hassle and fee over counterparts across Europe.

You mention Dan James, who we all know hasn’t worked, but he was what, £15m? For about £5m more, City picked up Ferran Torres. Nothing necessarily about the talent levels of either, and I’m not saying Torres is some must buy we missed on, but Torres had 90+ games for Valencia, which was comprised of the highest level of Spanish football, Champions League, and Europa league. Dan James is three years his senior and had barely two seasons of Champ football.

 

[rcoobc]

Look at the best two championship centre backs. What's the worst that could happen?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Which players taken from the Championship ever achieve top level success (i.e are part of a top 6 club)? I was going to say Vardy but he was lower leagues.

 

[Fetshu]

Maddison was tearing it up at Norwich when they were in Championship.
Didn't seem that many were in for him, but I may be misremembering. Now he's doing a solid job for Leicester and might end up at a bigger club, but Leicester will probably demand a huge fee since they're not short on cash.

 

[rcoobc]

The major problem with it (is much like buying from the PL nowadays) — prices are too inflated for the talent levels. Very rarely are the players actually worth the hassle and fee over counterparts across Europe.

You mention Dan James, who we all know hasn’t worked, but he was what, £15m? For about £5m more, City picked up Ferran Torres. Nothing necessarily about the talent levels of either, and I’m not saying Torres is some must buy we missed on, but Torres had 90+ games for Valencia, which was comprised of the highest level of Spanish football, Champions League, and Europa league. Dan James is three years his senior and had barely two seasons of Champ football.

Would Ferran Torres have cost us £20m? Somehow I think Valencia would have taken us for double that.

Although that's a different argument

 

[Random Task]

That’s a bit short sighted.

I wish we picked up the likes of Grealish and Maddison when they were in the championship.

The likes of those you mention always end up at a stepping stone club such as Villa (that sounds awful, no offence intended) and if they progress to a standard suitable for a CL club, they'll be snapped up by one such club in an instant. Natural progression.

See Grealish' situation right now, he's performing at a level far beyond his current club and multiple CL clubs have shown interest. He'll be at United or Chelsea at the start of next season.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Maddison was tearing it up at Norwich when they were in Championship.
Didn't seem that many were in for him, but I may be misremembering. Now he's doing a solid job for Leicester and might end up at a bigger club, but Leicester will probably demand a huge fee since they're not short on cash.

And he's just signed on for 5 years

 

[Inigo Montoya]

The likes of those you mention always end up at a stepping stone club such as Villa (that sounds awful, no offence intended) and if they progress to a standard suitable for a CL club, they'll be snapped up by one such club in an instant. Natural progression.

See Grealish' situation right now, he's performing at a level far beyond his current club and multiple CL clubs have shown interest. He'll be at United or Chelsea at the start of next season.

So that's 501 midfielders they'll have then. Amazing

 

[DWelbz19]

Would Ferran Torres have cost us £20m? Somehow I think Valencia would have taken us for double that.

Although that's a different argument

Yeah, I take your point with that — I do think Man Utd tax is definitely a bit of a thing. It’s more just I think for most good championship prospect out there, there are equivalents in the other top 5 leagues (and the Dutch, Belgian, and Portuguese league) that could probably be snipped up for similar fees with slightly more experience at the highest level.

 

[11101]

That’s a bit short sighted.

I wish we picked up the likes of Grealish and Maddison when they were in the championship.

A couple of years of Villa being in the Championship doesnt make Grealish Championship talent. He played years in the PL before that and was known by everybody.

Maddison is an exception but is he good enough for us? Doubtful.

 

[rcoobc]

Which players taken from the Championship ever achieve top level success (i.e are part of a top 6 club)? I was going to say Vardy but he was lower leagues.

Vardy, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Wes Morgan were all in the Championship with Leicester

 

[Jack-C20]

Probably one for the weird feelings in football thread but I’m sure that at all times there’s 4 or 5 solid full backs in the Championship. Feels like every other game we’re up against a team with a full back having a decent game, who in the last couple of years was in the Championship. I don’t keep up with the Championship any more though so no idea who they are.

 

[Rozay]

We bought James, are reportedly looking at Aarons and tried to buy Bellingham. Naturally, teams trying to be the best in Europe do not typically shop in the second tier.

 

[redNATION]

Ismailia Sarr, Max Aarons and Todd Cantwell are all good players, it’s worth signing players from the lower league before they make a breakthrough and prices escalate. Though we tried that with Bellingham and he went off to Dortmund.

 

[Cascarino]

Because they're in the Championship for a reason.

The best talent, the sort that's suitable for a top PL team, has been scouted out long before they reach adult leagues. It's incredibly rare for somebody to have slipped through all those age groups and made it to a major professional league like the Championship without somebody noticing.

You might get the odd Vardy or Smalling lying completely undiscovered in non league football, but being in the Championship implies scouts and coaches have seen them at multiple levels and deemed them not good enough.

It’s very hard to gauge how well a kid will ultimately do. It’s not that nobody noticed (although players will develop at different rates) but it’s not always easy to poach youngsters (for Geographical and developmental reasons). The idea that if a player isn’t at a top club by the time they’re 18 they’ll never be good enough is a bad one.

Bale, Ramsey, Brooks, Stones, Maddison, Antonio, Chambo, all came from the championship and have been a success. Rodon joined Tottenham and Bellingham Dortmund in the summer.

 

[JJ12]

The likes of those you mention always end up at a stepping stone club such as Villa (that sounds awful, no offence intended) and if they progress to a standard suitable for a CL club, they'll be snapped up by one such club in an instant. Natural progression.

See Grealish' situation right now, he's performing at a level far beyond his current club and multiple CL clubs have shown interest. He'll be at United or Chelsea at the start of next season.

I think that’s the OP’s point - why don’t we cut out that middle man and not pay £80m or whatever for Grealish - however Grealish in particular is a special case and we aren’t going to be finding his talent very often.

 

[Remember the geese]

Jarrod Bowen is another who was signed from the Championship and has looked a very decent player.

 

[bucky]

In hindsight it's kind of bizarre that we went with James over Grealish and Buendia that summer, considering the other two had very good season in the championship that year. Buendia is still by the looks of it one of the best players there this season.

 

[united for life]

None of the above mentioned players are good enough for United

exactly what I was thinking

 

[11101]

It’s very hard to gauge how well a kid will ultimately do. It’s not that nobody noticed (although players will develop at different rates) but it’s not always easy to poach youngsters (for Geographical and developmental reasons). The idea that if a player isn’t at a top club by the time they’re 18 they’ll never be good enough is a bad one.

Bale, Ramsey, Brooks, Stones, Maddison, Antonio, Chambo, all came from the championship and have been a success. Rodon joined Tottenham and Bellingham Dortmund in the summer.

Other than Bale none of those names stand out, but I dont think we're talking about 17 year olds here, who are regularly bought from lower leagues after a breakout season.

Going hunting for established talent in the championship is a losing battle. You have 1 name in how many years?

 

[Sandikan]

Dan James - tried him - not quite got enough for us.
Bellingham - wanted him - chose Dortmund.