Judging by the threads on the front page, we need 11 more world class players to add to our squad.
Why have we settled for two make-shift full-backs?
- Thread starter Oscie
- Start date
Exactly. The knee-jerk on this forum sometimes is ludicrous.Because they’re both good, Valencia especially in that role and we are seemingly unwilling to spend the market rate for full backs for non Garunteed upgrades. If it was 50mil and you go from a 7/10-9/10 in that position for a much younger player, I’d imagine we would pull the trigger. It’s obviously not a position that’s as stacked as say offensive players right now.
Valencia's arguably better at the back than he is going forward. If he had a bit more belief and conviction, then he could be top class but is movement is not dynamic or purposeful enough. We wouldn't be having anywhere near the amount of problems going forward on right that we do have if Valencia were as good as people made him out to be.
Valencia is the best right back in the country, and Shaw is pretty darn close to that honour on the left side, so what exactly is the issue here?
Valencia is not a "make-shift" right back just because he played further forward earlier. He is the best right in the country and one of the best there is in World football. Luke Shaw has the potential to be one of the best left backs in the World. Young is a kind of "make-shift" left back (and so is Blindt and Rojo), but these are experienced players capable of playing in several positions.
Valencia is not a makeshift right back. He’s probably played more games at RB now than he had at RW. He is probably one of the top RB in world football. Never given the credit he deserves as he’s still seen by some as a RW filling in at RB. If we bought a RB in the summer who was 25 and put in performances as good as Valencia has then he would be getting the credit that Valencia deserves. The man is physically incredible for his age and I see no reason that he won’t be capable of being the first choice for a couple more seasons at least. As for the left, I hope shaw makes it his own. He already should have done by recent performances but clearly Jose isn’t convinced yet.
I mean considering that some of them were replacements for injured players, it's not that shocking.
What makes you think that José is not convinced by Shaw? What gives you that impression??
Valencia is arguably the best RB in the league right now,he is any thing but a makeshift...He's performing better than most "specialist" Right backs so I"m not too bothered about him.But I think that Ashley young is keeping the position warm for Luke Shaw,Jose seems to be working very hard with Luke Shaw on the training ground and I think that he"ll probably be our first choice LB next season.Infact I would like to see him play week in,week out for the rest of this season as well....
Valencia is a good RB. Young is ok ish. Definitely can improve. United have TFM, Shaw, Mitchell waiting in case the twos performances drop drastically.
Valencia is more than just a good right back, he is an excellent one.
Judging by our performances against the 'big teams' (and I use that very loosely when referring to the likes of Spurs and Arsenal) over the last 18 months (and really, since Fergie retired), we definitely need a few more world class players. Our defence is a shambles against the big teams, and the only reason we dont concede more is because we have such a defensive approach. The Spurs game illustrated this perfectly, our FBs have an attack mode or defence mode, they cant seem to do both well, which is what you need at this level. The defence against Spurs could have been from 2011 - no other big team in Europe would let that happen.
I doubted Valencia at the start but he's become a very good fullback. Surprisingly though his delivery is pretty poor especially given he used to be a winger.
Left back is a problem.
Left back is a problem.
I’m guessing you have already predicted what my answer will be but I will say it anyway. Since Young has returned shaw has played in two easy fixtures, Yeovil and at home to Huddersfield. Young gets picked for two much tougher fixtures, away at spurs and Burnley. From that I would draw the conclusion that shaw hasn’t convinced Jose that he should be the first choice left back.
Good points, however I don't think it is a case that Jose is uncertain over Shaw, rather that both players are good, and both offer different things, so I just think that it is much more to do with the tactics for each game, rather than what José might think of each one.
Oh you've forgotten about getting Pep into manage the said team of world class players...
At least 3 of those 5 are first choice. DDG, Valencia, one of Smalling/Jones. At this point Young might be too.
Getting in a RB who has better decision making baking would improve us a lot imo. Not that Valencia is a bad player but it's almost like we've gotten used to his mediocre decision making and appalling final ball. Whether such a RB is available, gettable or even a priority is a different question altogether. But with the amount of space Valencia often finds himself in he should be doing a bit better going forward.
Young and Valencia were wingers by then. So 2 of the back 5 are the same. Both of those 2 were around 20 (Jones and de Gea). Really not mental.
Surely it makes it worse? Two failed wingers who long overstayed their welcome are now first choice fullbacks.
Just who would you be thinking about that could replace Valencia?
We have had more pressing concerns than replacing Young and Valencia at full back. Ok neither are Irwin quality, but neither are piss poor either. Both are competent most of the time. Obviously they are now both the wrong side of 30 so perhaps in the next window or two, one or both will be replaced. Shaw is starting getting games so that looks ok for LB.
Because they've played well.
We've just gotten used to the mediocrity the both of them produce. Valencia is rubbish as a fullback in our system because he can't run more than 15 yards without stopping to do his little feint and pass inwards to Mata/Matic. Rinse repeat for 90 mins. Also does not have the nous and instinct of a real attacking fullback who overlaps to provide an outlet to the inside forward (Mata/Lingard, whichever non-winger we choose to play that particular day), and cannot cross the ball if his life depended on it even when given loads of time and acres of space. Young, I would argue, does better as a fullback (against mid-bottom table opposition) because he's got a few more tricks in his locker and can actually beat a man. However, having to cut inside to be effective on his stronger foot severely limits his game and our options on the wings.
With the both of them playing, and our usual setup of Martial LW-Mata RW, we essentially have 4 players cutting in during any given attacking move and we just have a clusterf**k of bodies in the middle with everyone getting in each other's way. The opposition literally just need two banks of 4 to stop our attack because nobody in our team has heard of stretching the play/overlapping on the wings. Our very limited fullbacks just exacerbate this problem, making us look disjointed and horrible in attack against weaker opposition, and killing our counterattacks against tougher ones.
With the both of them playing, and our usual setup of Martial LW-Mata RW, we essentially have 4 players cutting in during any given attacking move and we just have a clusterf**k of bodies in the middle with everyone getting in each other's way. The opposition literally just need two banks of 4 to stop our attack because nobody in our team has heard of stretching the play/overlapping on the wings. Our very limited fullbacks just exacerbate this problem, making us look disjointed and horrible in attack against weaker opposition, and killing our counterattacks against tougher ones.
The reason is simple.
Over the past 4 windows, we've had more pressing areas to upgrade.
Whether some accept it or not, we have a limited budget.
Over the past 4 windows, we've had more pressing areas to upgrade.
Whether some accept it or not, we have a limited budget.
Edit: nevermind.
Because we can't spend £150 million on fullbacks in a single transfer window. I am really surprised with the amount of people saying Valencia is an amazing RB. He clearly isn't ? I would say he is above average but he literally contributes nothing going forward. Yes, he likes to overlap but his passing/crossing is so bad that all his runs are basically useless, the most we can get from is a corner. However the bigger problem is CB, we won't ever win PL with these 2 clowns (Smalling and Jones) being our CBs.
So you have forgotten about Bailly being our first choice centreback then have you?
When it comes to fullbacks, most are "make shift". Nobody grows up saying "I want to be a full back". Most are players from other positions that are turned into fullbacks...
Watching this team, especially at home against defensive teams, it's really screaming out for more production from the fullbacks. Both wingers tuck in, our striker feeds on crosses and more often than not there is a hefty space the fullbacks to work with.
But the crossing let's them down too many times.
It's weird with Valencia, a converted winger who I have no worries about defensively but I feel he should be less ponderous and be crossing better in attack.
I'm not convinced by Shaw as a starter, he's been too safe and his crossing let's him down those few times he gets into crossing position.
Young is always the same, plays a few blinders to convince folks to keep him one more year then fades back into mediocrity.
But the crossing let's them down too many times.
It's weird with Valencia, a converted winger who I have no worries about defensively but I feel he should be less ponderous and be crossing better in attack.
I'm not convinced by Shaw as a starter, he's been too safe and his crossing let's him down those few times he gets into crossing position.
Young is always the same, plays a few blinders to convince folks to keep him one more year then fades back into mediocrity.
And spending big on world class players has clearly been the answer since SAF left...
He has probably been more injured than Jones since we bought him...
Jones and Smalling are good players. On occasion, with a regular run of matches without injury etc, they’ve even proved to be very good players. De Gea is world class obviously. We purchased the 3 as young players - how is it damning that we still have them?
Valencia defensively is the best fullback in the league, and I’m sure his offensive stats actually measure favourably against many others in the league. So again, hardly damning that we start him on the right.
Young I can somewhat agree with you on, however we purchased a left back, in Shaw, that has had many complications through his career preventing him from permanently taking that position. Not much to see in that previously quoted stat, really.
With regards to Jones and Smalling -being a good player occassionally is not Manchezter United standard.
We will nothing with them.
They deserve their place in the squad. Do they deserve to start? Perhaps not, but you can’t have a squad of world class players. I disagree with you.
Jones and Smalling are fine. Like the OP says, we need new fullbacks, assuming our first choice options are Valencia and Young.
"We will nothing with them." What does that even mean? If you mean "win" anything with them, then I think you will find that is wrong, as both have quite the honours board in terms of medals with ourselves.
Think he means Young