Why is this current England team so much better than the failed ‘Golden Generation’?

redmeister said:
Isn't the key difference that the golden generation were painfully slow in wide areas where pace is most important?
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The key difference is the golden generation had like 4 genuine world class attacking players in total, two of which where virtually the same player and thus difficult to play together(despite every manager attempts) and the two forwards often being injured
 
Simply because then we didn't have so much quality in all areas of the pitch and the old x and x can't play together used to be a hot topic.

Now we even have a bench full of players who on their day can be just as good as those in the starting line up.

I have been critical of the negative way we play sometimes and the decision making however credit where it is due there is a fantastic team spirit around this England squad.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Same old arguments which have already been proven to be excuses. Again, Portugal were beaten twice by Greece in Euro 2004. The reason the ‘golden generation’ didn’t ever get past the QF stage is because they were poorly organised, poorly managed and had too much ego. If Turkey can make 2 semi finals in that period, then England are certainly capable of it.
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Would the "golden generation" not have made it past Colombia and Sweden, or Germany (at Wembley) and Ukraine? I think it's clear they were unlucky both in the way they went out (on penalties twice) and the teams they faced.
 
FrankDrebin said:
I accept the Golden Generation played against stronger sides and individuals and I'm also acknowledging this squad ,over the past two Tournaments, have had favourable draws yet I still wouldn't feel confident that the Golden Generation would've progressed in similar vain.
Something would've tripped them up along the way.
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The so called Golden Generation would have taken apart our current side.

The only area that the current squad is better, is off the pitch. Had the Golden lot had a savvy Southgate to handle all the external media, and internal cliques, we would have probably lay won something.
 
England's golden generation happened slightly after Beckham's peak and after Michael Owen's peak.

If you had a team with peak Rooney peak Beckham and peak Owen I don't think anything would have stopped them, but that was not the case in 2004.
 
JustAGuest said:
Would the "golden generation" not have made it past Colombia and Sweden, or Germany (at Wembley) and Ukraine? I think it's clear they were unlucky both in the way they went out (on penalties twice) and the teams they faced.
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Have a look at some of the results the golden generation had against lesser nations in the WC and the Euros. Usually narrow wins when they did win. Rarely dominant (as this current team has sometimes been against minnows). I think there’s every chance they wouldn’t have made it past the nations you highlighted.
 
NasirTimothy said:
A real shame for them. Still a very young team and still a better ‘team’ than any England have had for the last 25 or 30 years IMO.
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Their potential is higher but I don't think that's gonna be achieved with Southgate.
 
NasirTimothy said:
But who do you go with if not him? World Cup is next year.
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I have no clue but we saw with Mancini and Enrique that you could play good football in international football and use your squad well.

It's not a coincidence they are the ones with the biggest achievements at club football in this tournament.
 
If you gave this squad to Mancini or Enrique, they'd probably win the Euros with it(and play better football).

England are absolutely loaded(though central midfield is a bit weak compared to other top nations). Southgate limits them.
 
KikiDaKats said:
Greece won Euro
Sweden 94
Croatia 98
With better research I can give a longer list. My point what all these teams had in common is playing for the cause as a unit. Brazil 02 was one of the poorest Brazil squads I've seen before
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Are you comparing how Greece played to won the Euro 2004 with Sweden 94 and Croatia 98 3rd place seriously?
What's all this equating Greece 2004 with non-big teams who had quality and played good football.
I've seen some other dude compare Denmark 92 with Greece 2004.

Seems like many just watch the result on wikipedia.

Also in what mind, a team with Ronaldinho,Ronaldo,Rivaldo,Roberto Carlos and Cafu can be considered poor.....

I will say it again, winning with a dodgy penalty against 10 men Denmark has confused many of you lads.
 
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Wolf1992 said:
Are you comparing how Greece played to won the Euro 2004 with Sweden 94 and Croatia 98 3rd place seriously?
What's all this equating Greece 2004 with non-big teams who had quality and played good football.
I've seen some other dude compare Denmark 92 with Greece 2004.

Seems like many just watch the result on wikipedia.

Also in what mind, a team with Ronaldinho,Ronaldo,Rivaldo,Roberto Carlos and Cafu can be considered poor.....

I will say it again, winning with a dodgy penalty against 10 men Denmark has confused many of you lads.
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I watched those tournaments myself and remember how it felt. Did you even read the whole post?
I've seen those same 6 individuals in better Brazil squads that achieved diddly.
 
Before yesterday's game I read an article that said England we're getting it right at youth level, now. So much so that other top countries were looking what they are doing in that area (yes, I laughed too).

I almost don't believe that story is correct because I refuse to believe that the FA get anything right.
 
KikiDaKats said:
I watched those tournaments myself and remember how it felt. Did you even read the whole post?
I've seen those same 6 individuals in better Brazil squads that achieved diddly.
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Then stop using Greece 2004 as a parameter of medium teams achieving something, they are the biggest example of fluke with ultra negative football and no quality in their squad.
It's the same as if Slovakia would have fluked Euro 2020.

Kind of disrespectful to mention Greece 2004, and then Sweden 94,Croatia 98, or even worse Denmark 92.

BTW Those Brazil 6 individuals were great, none of the teams England had faced in Euro 2020(including Italy) had the quality of that Brazil starting line up.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
If you gave this squad to Mancini or Enrique, they'd probably win the Euros with it(and play better football).

England are absolutely loaded(though central midfield is a bit weak compared to other top nations). Southgate limits them.
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On the flip side mancini would have been questioned why he did not pick x,y,z and harrassed out at every opportunity by the media.

The italians have none of that. They just let him do his job
 
Other teams are just in a down cycle right now.

Germany stuck with Low for too long, France imploded, if Spain had Torres or Villa they'd have won this tournament. Netherlands had a coach that failed in MLS. Portugal ran into the Belguim buzzsaw but they themselves dont have the nous to win it all.

Also lets look at the 2018 run and the 2021 run.


Columbia on PKS
Sweden
Lose to Croatia


Germany
Ukraine
Denmark
Lose to Italy

Other than Germany, who were a very weak team imo, who did they beat that was all that impressive.

I think they will deeply lament these two tournaments for a long long time, I dont think things ever line up again, plus I dont see them hosting anything till maybe 2040 or so.
 
Mibabalou said:
Other teams are just in a down cycle right now.

Germany stuck with Low for too long, France imploded, if Spain had Torres or Villa they'd have won this tournament. Netherlands had a coach that failed in MLS. Portugal ran into the Belguim buzzsaw but they themselves dont have the nous to win it all.

Also lets look at the 2018 run and the 2021 run.


Columbia on PKS
Sweden
Lose to Croatia


Germany
Ukraine
Denmark
Lose to Italy

Other than Germany, who were a very weak team imo, who did they beat that was all that impressive.

I think they will deeply lament these two tournaments for a long long time, I dont think things ever line up again, plus I dont see them hosting anything till maybe 2040 or so.
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England genuinely have good players and have a lot more balance now than they ever had prior. Southgate has also been a better manager tactically than any of his predecessors in the last 30 years. He's been willing to try things tactically that none of the others were willing to do. England got far because they were very hard to score against in these Euro's. The organization, the stability and consistency of Shaw, Maguire and Stones, mixed with their ability to aggressively dominate games in quick short 20 minute spurts meant that they weren't struggling with their obvious weakness of building up. I didn't like some of Southgates's decisions higher up the pitch, but defensively he was superb and had consistent gameplans.

The golden generation had weak depth. The managers constantly struggled more with picking the squad than deciding the tactics they were going to us. I couldn't tell you what their tactical plans were for any of the sides. The 2002 side were decent and I feel they would have gone far if they had not met Brazil in that Quarter final. The reason for their decent gameplay imo, was that they were able to find Owen due to his relationship with Emile Heskey. After Heskey regressed in performance, England were never able to find another player to connect with the striker. Rooney in particular suffered as a result. In midfield, it took till 2006 for the managers to understand the importance of midfield combinations and defensive protection.

For me, England suffered from the same issues a lot of English teams had at the time. They played the 442 without really knowing what made the United's and Arsenal's so successful at it, in the same way some teams play 3 at the back without truly knowing its purpose and how to use it. Fergie and Wenger always had linking players, who had good touches of the ball that could bring others into play whilst supporting the striker ( a lot of English teams literally used two no.9's and asked one to simply drop deeper). United's midfield were rather narrow, Becks and Giggs were so good at passing and moving off the ball; united actually attacked in a 4132. England would simply space out the team, leaving holes in the middle for the opposition to exploit.
 
The Golden generation for England coincided with the Golden generation for many other teams. Germany, Brazil, Argentina, France, Italy, Portugal all had solid squads with all-time legends in football history. It’s been mentioned already that “fine margins” have decided England fate in tournaments. It didn’t help that there was imbalance in the squads and were more celebrities than they were footballers.
The quality of international teams is weaker but this England side are more technically capable and play like a team with an actual gameplan, unlike prior squads where the manager threw the biggest names on the pitch and expected their individual brilliance to shine through (sounds a lot like current united).
 
Wolf1992 said:
Then stop using Greece 2004 as a parameter of medium teams achieving something, they are the biggest example of fluke with ultra negative football and no quality in their squad.
It's the same as if Slovakia would have fluked Euro 2020.

Kind of disrespectful to mention Greece 2004, and then Sweden 94,Croatia 98, or even worse Denmark 92.

BTW Those Brazil 6 individuals were great, none of the teams England had faced in Euro 2020(including Italy) had the quality of that Brazil starting line up.
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The point of my original post was balance and team work. So Greece be it fluke or dumb luck fall under the same bracket. Individuals or dependency on stars without the right balance wins you zilch.
 
Mibabalou said:
Other teams are just in a down cycle right now.

Germany stuck with Low for too long, France imploded, if Spain had Torres or Villa they'd have won this tournament. Netherlands had a coach that failed in MLS. Portugal ran into the Belguim buzzsaw but they themselves dont have the nous to win it all.

Also lets look at the 2018 run and the 2021 run.


Columbia on PKS
Sweden
Lose to Croatia


Germany
Ukraine
Denmark
Lose to Italy

Other than Germany, who were a very weak team imo, who did they beat that was all that impressive.

I think they will deeply lament these two tournaments for a long long time, I dont think things ever line up again, plus I dont see them hosting anything till maybe 2040 or so.
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I don't see these circumstances aligning themselves this perfectly any time soon either. The popular view seems to be that these two tournaments have been an overall success. Perhaps it will take a tougher draw in Qatar (which may or may not lead to Southgate's departure) to look back on these tournaments as two missed opportunities more than anything else.
 
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