Exactly, most of them want their way out, and the pay cut from missing CL isn't on their minds anymore because they're expecting to be out of the club by then.
Why Rangnick has failed to implement an effective pressing strategy
- Thread starter Raees
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
We also need to get better at fouling the opposition in their own half to break up their counter-attacks before they begin.
City and Liverpool also seem to be very good at this.
City and Liverpool also seem to be very good at this.
I suspect that although he does 'collective'/'company punishment' type bollockings.... believe there are some on tape somewhere... or maybe it was just they were in German so its sounds harsh!
Don't think he does it on a personal basis, he tends rather to 'get up close and personal' so to speak and confront players with their failings/good points on a sort of 'pros and cons' approach, tries to get them to think through their actions... but he is apparently relentless in this and doesn't give up. According to one guy who worked with him at Leipzig, he brings about changes.... or receives requests for transfers!
Ralf isn't very good.
If he was he would have been taken as a manager at a big club before now, he is a pub team manager.
He doesn't know what he is doing.
If he was he would have been taken as a manager at a big club before now, he is a pub team manager.
He doesn't know what he is doing.
Though it took Klopp abit of time to construct the pressing style within the Liverpool squad with the then personal he had at his disposal, he had the benefit that Liverpool were somewhat accustomed at that time in playing at quite a high intensive style/game having been previously managed by Rodgers who really got the ball rolling in some respects.
So the playing personal were more adjusted to it to some degree, though not totally physically capable because they did tire over a certain period in matches. Plus the overall quality in the players weren't particularly high individually.
So the playing personal were more adjusted to it to some degree, though not totally physically capable because they did tire over a certain period in matches. Plus the overall quality in the players weren't particularly high individually.
I think the answer is staring us all in the face,
He's interim & a good portion of our players are not going to be here very soon. So they don't care about style or top 4...
It's like a supply teacher taking the last 5 minutes of your last ever lesson. It's a waste of time.
He's interim & a good portion of our players are not going to be here very soon. So they don't care about style or top 4...
It's like a supply teacher taking the last 5 minutes of your last ever lesson. It's a waste of time.
It also doesn't help that the players would rather down the tools and get rid of the manager, than be forced to run hard
Completely shows lack of knowledge on your part.
Rangnick isn't a manager, he is a sporting director who can coach.
He is brought to steady the ship, assess the squad and consult for 2 years. If he wasn't very good, the likes of Klopp, Tuchel, Nagglesman would not respect him the way they do.
Simply doesn't have the players for it, especially in midfield and at the back. Trying to press and play a high line with players like Ronaldo, Pogba, McTominay, and Harry Maguire is never going to work. You need mobile (not necessarily fast) players with high levels of positional awareness and endurance. The squad is simply not built for that.
A clear lack of desire by our players has been evident, half hearted pressing.. compare them to Phil Foden at weekend, he was in at lightening speed closing down and knocking bigger players off the ball, his desire speed and aggression were everything that was lacking in our team.
City 3-1 up lost the ball, 5 of their team ran at full sprint to chase back and recover the ball.
I personally dont blame RR. His plans are correct but a lack of effort by the team fails to execute them.. sometimes we get 30- 45 minutes then they just stop running.
City 3-1 up lost the ball, 5 of their team ran at full sprint to chase back and recover the ball.
I personally dont blame RR. His plans are correct but a lack of effort by the team fails to execute them.. sometimes we get 30- 45 minutes then they just stop running.
Players haven't bought into it, basically. It involves working really hard and staying focussed. They can't, or won't, do that.
Its like blaming the driver if he can't win a F1 race in a volkswagon polo
Maybe because our players are lazy as feck
Sunday a prime example where we pressed ‘well’ for a portion of the 1st half then ran out of gas in the second half because we haven’t been able to control a game for what feels like an age.
That comment apportions no blame to either players or manager, so not sure what you're on about to be honest.Its like blaming the driver if he can't win a F1 race in a volkswagon polo
Yes, this so much. I thought the early days under Ole were promising in that we moved out Smalling, Fellaini and Lukaku who were clearly not players built for possession football. However, we still seem to have favoured runners over real technical brilliance. Not every side has to press; Madrid were certainly not a pressing machine while they won 4 CL's but what they had was an abundance of technical quality. Until we address that throughout the squad we will struggle.
Poor Ralf, it's like coaching Norwich or something.Its like blaming the driver if he can't win a F1 race in a volkswagon polo
Players are the car, driver is the manager. If we want to win we need a better car. For me getting a better car is more of a priority than the worlds leading driver.
Even fecking schumacher wouldn't win as much if he wasn't behind the wheel of a ferrari.
Our central midfield pairing is relegation level, our cb and rb are clowns and we literally have no forwards who can score atm.
The whole squad needs to be gutted.
Yes I understand all that, I want to know why you think I blame the manager?
Personally, I don't understand the whole issue with an interim hire. Many clubs have hired interim managers and had relative success with it. Chelsea have done it several times.
It was clear that after we waited too long to sack Ole that the main goals for this season were already beyond us. At that point, it seemed inevitable that the club (who had massively bought into Ole's project) needed time to figure out where we go from here. My hope is that Rangnick was simply meant to be an appointment to move us somewhere along the path to the more modern coaching styles.
It seems like Murtough wants to rebuild to coincide with his ascension to CEO. We can only hope that he gets the big decisions right this summer.
The answer is simple, he’s managing a bunch of self entitled, lazy bastards who have absolutely zero interest in breaking a sweat to press. The quicker we rid ourselves of these cnuts the better.
We'll get fouls called and cards given. City and Pool can do it because they don't get carded. Several players in that team seem to do 5 fouls before the ref would think of giving a card.
Long story short, we have neither the athleticism and the mobility to gegenpress nor the technical ability and the football intelligence to follow Pep's 6-secs rule. Therefore, we are stuck in this limbo where we are somewhat good at forcing the opposition (not the likes of City and 'Pool, but the lesser sides) to surrender possession, but we are not good enough with the ball afterwards.
well theres a difference when our guys are doing it and clatter into someone making it look like a terrible desperation tackle, and they do it. it's a tactic and a skill we clearly dont work on.
This, this and this.
Thats how i saw it too. When you see someone like Bruno completely gassed you know most of the 11 is dead, Lingard and Rashford being the lazy exceptions of course.
Has there ever been a squad that is seen as lazier or more entitled as the one you possess right now? Ralf I’m sure is doing the best he can with what he has but when Ronaldo is questioning the professionalism of some players there’s a problem, for as hard as he has worked, it’s always been about him and not the club he plays for.
Or you could Google it
It’s certainly the worst United side I’ve ever seen. The lack of effort and commitment to doing the basics is nothing short of a disgrace. The worst thing is some of these players have won next to feck all yet have this superiority complex like they’re too good to graft or be told what to do. Unacceptable.
Lack of time. Lack of wonga out in the last transfer window.
its the players and the short time frame...nothing to do with Ralf
Andy Mitten was saying a couple of days ago that he knows quite a few players aren't buying into it and haven't bought into it. Gary Neville is on record as saying he knows who has been leaking shite to the press. It is pretty clear that the #1 reason for our continued limp performances is a toxic dressing room culture.
Rangnick was tasked with two things - whilst both being a lame duck what with the interim spell, and without being given a player or two in January when it is evident to all that our midfield is an enormous weakness - get results and guide the team to a top 4 finish, whilst also develop the team into a team. It is not really on Rangnick that what he is known for and what he stands for in football is a style of play that is high intensity progressive football and that the board chose to go for him as an interim. But given his philosophy, quite a few of our players aren't a good fit for that style of football. If we were talking about a well run club, we could assume that the long-term vision was to go that route regardless and exposing this team to that kind of style now would accelerate the process with the new manager in summer already wise to who needs to be discarded from the get go. However, we are not a well run club so there may have been zero logic behind installing Rangnick with his style. We can see that having a team that has, over the last 6 years, played counter attacking football, with some glaring weaknesses, presents a major challenge in pursuing both a major change to our style of play whilst being insistent upon getting results no matter what. You have to prioritise which is more important. And we're a short-term club. Now that we're out of the running for CL qualification and Rangnick has nothing to lose, it is time for him to throw caution to the wind and simply go with players whom he trusts can be counted on in the league.
In hindsight, had I been in his shoes, given that interim job, I think insisting on Keane as a #2 would have been a super wise choice. You have to introduce respect into that dressing room and counter this hideous player power that has completely gone out of control.
When the players feel free to do as they please, whether that is follow instructions in a game, leak shite to the press, use injury layoffs as holidays, skip games if they're not feeling it (that's a gradient scale), and they know that wherever else they go they won't get the same high wages for the same crap performances, you've simply got a bag of shit.
As others have pointed out, Rangnick does not tell Bruno to do a single-man press, or for Rashford to do a couple of sprints to close down the keeper to tick his stat boxes. Rangnick has been very transparent about what he has been pleased with and what he hasn't after our matches. It's pretty clear the team is not following instructions other than in spurts, but even someone as upfront as Rangnick cannot really say that in his pressers. A #2 like Keane could though.
This thread could more aptly be posing the question: Was there a genuine long-term vision behind appointing Rangnick specifically, to which I worry the answer is no. To change tack now requires savaging this squad and I doubt there is any appetite at board level for such forward steps.
Rangnick was tasked with two things - whilst both being a lame duck what with the interim spell, and without being given a player or two in January when it is evident to all that our midfield is an enormous weakness - get results and guide the team to a top 4 finish, whilst also develop the team into a team. It is not really on Rangnick that what he is known for and what he stands for in football is a style of play that is high intensity progressive football and that the board chose to go for him as an interim. But given his philosophy, quite a few of our players aren't a good fit for that style of football. If we were talking about a well run club, we could assume that the long-term vision was to go that route regardless and exposing this team to that kind of style now would accelerate the process with the new manager in summer already wise to who needs to be discarded from the get go. However, we are not a well run club so there may have been zero logic behind installing Rangnick with his style. We can see that having a team that has, over the last 6 years, played counter attacking football, with some glaring weaknesses, presents a major challenge in pursuing both a major change to our style of play whilst being insistent upon getting results no matter what. You have to prioritise which is more important. And we're a short-term club. Now that we're out of the running for CL qualification and Rangnick has nothing to lose, it is time for him to throw caution to the wind and simply go with players whom he trusts can be counted on in the league.
In hindsight, had I been in his shoes, given that interim job, I think insisting on Keane as a #2 would have been a super wise choice. You have to introduce respect into that dressing room and counter this hideous player power that has completely gone out of control.
When the players feel free to do as they please, whether that is follow instructions in a game, leak shite to the press, use injury layoffs as holidays, skip games if they're not feeling it (that's a gradient scale), and they know that wherever else they go they won't get the same high wages for the same crap performances, you've simply got a bag of shit.
As others have pointed out, Rangnick does not tell Bruno to do a single-man press, or for Rashford to do a couple of sprints to close down the keeper to tick his stat boxes. Rangnick has been very transparent about what he has been pleased with and what he hasn't after our matches. It's pretty clear the team is not following instructions other than in spurts, but even someone as upfront as Rangnick cannot really say that in his pressers. A #2 like Keane could though.
This thread could more aptly be posing the question: Was there a genuine long-term vision behind appointing Rangnick specifically, to which I worry the answer is no. To change tack now requires savaging this squad and I doubt there is any appetite at board level for such forward steps.
Look at the one on Sky on Rashford. He did feck all and not move a foot from where he was when the ball was in the City half and they launched a counter attack and almost scored a goal. It is all there for everyone to see. I have no idea why Bruno or anyone has to press the keeper when the chances are so slim to zero in getting the keeper to feck it up.
Yep, it's why Pep's Barca was sublime at it and so devastating once they won the ball back.
They could compress the field to the size of a half, they were world class at keeping the ball against a press - 2 wicked combinations in helping them win the ball back within (what was it, 3 or 5 second rules?).
We have the complete anthesis of the above: slow defenders who are more comfortable defending in their own box, and a midfield (and team) who are careless in possession and keep giving the ball away cheaply. Pique wasn't the fastest but their teams ability to keep the ball for 60-70% of the match made it possible for him to defend high up.
The reason the defence can't keep a high line is two fold and actually nothing to do with the defenders.
1: They play infront of a goalkeeper that will not sweep behind them, overhit though balls or vertical balls, guess what your chasing them all the way back, you try actually holding a high line constantly knowing in the back of your mind even a very poor ball over or through you, your gonna have to chase.
2: The relentless give away of the ball infornt of them, pick whoever you want Fred, mctom, pogba, Ronaldo, bruno, rashford. They all give the ball away far far too much. We win the ball and try to transition to attack just as the defense is moving forward to try and hold a high line the ball is given away and suddenly there going backwards again. There is no way you can hold a high line if you don't have the ball in the first place, which means there is no way you can high press.
The reason why we looked good in the first 20-25 minutes was because we were very disciplined on and off the ball, when we won it we kept it simple and moved into attacking area reasonably slowly allowing our defenders to hold a high line and compress the pitch making it more difficult for city to play through us when the won the ball back. Our press even forced a few mistakes out of city early on but the press was disciplined early on we didn't chase ederson and the defenders we let them have it and blocked the passing lanes. I think when we concede the 2nd we lost all discipline with and without the ball and then slowly fell apart unable to get a foothold in the game.
1: They play infront of a goalkeeper that will not sweep behind them, overhit though balls or vertical balls, guess what your chasing them all the way back, you try actually holding a high line constantly knowing in the back of your mind even a very poor ball over or through you, your gonna have to chase.
2: The relentless give away of the ball infornt of them, pick whoever you want Fred, mctom, pogba, Ronaldo, bruno, rashford. They all give the ball away far far too much. We win the ball and try to transition to attack just as the defense is moving forward to try and hold a high line the ball is given away and suddenly there going backwards again. There is no way you can hold a high line if you don't have the ball in the first place, which means there is no way you can high press.
The reason why we looked good in the first 20-25 minutes was because we were very disciplined on and off the ball, when we won it we kept it simple and moved into attacking area reasonably slowly allowing our defenders to hold a high line and compress the pitch making it more difficult for city to play through us when the won the ball back. Our press even forced a few mistakes out of city early on but the press was disciplined early on we didn't chase ederson and the defenders we let them have it and blocked the passing lanes. I think when we concede the 2nd we lost all discipline with and without the ball and then slowly fell apart unable to get a foothold in the game.
There is no situation in which Lindelof, Maguire & Co. look comfortable in defence.
Good and interesting observations in this thread...
The lone exception to this is Marcus Rashford, who's always three steps ahead of everything that's going on. Well, three steps ahead of the next-to-last defender, anyways.
Totally agree, this is the biggest problem. Bruno and Sancho can do it, Fred has actually shown it, and Pogba when he wants to, but the rest of this squad take too long to think things through. Too often, it seems they aren't even looking to move the ball forward until they've stopped and surveyed the situation.
The lone exception to this is Marcus Rashford, who's always three steps ahead of everything that's going on. Well, three steps ahead of the next-to-last defender, anyways.
"more comfortable" does not equate to looking/being "completely comfortable", in fairness to me
Said it a number of times before.
Our players simply don't support the man with the ball anything like well enough. So the player with the ball becomes isolated far too easy by teams who find it so easy to press.
That and the fact that many of the players are not technically competent enough to be able to control the ball and find a team mate when under pressure.
It is a basic football skill and we are not good at this.
Our players simply don't support the man with the ball anything like well enough. So the player with the ball becomes isolated far too easy by teams who find it so easy to press.
That and the fact that many of the players are not technically competent enough to be able to control the ball and find a team mate when under pressure.
It is a basic football skill and we are not good at this.
Been part and parcel of Pep's approach since Barca.
It makes sense: you can't depend solely on breaking up counter attacks through legit interceptions and tackles - that will only work if you're playing pub teams (relatively speaking).