Why Rangnick has failed to implement an effective pressing strategy

[Raees]

1. Lack of dynamism (Slow Approach)
2. Lack of commitment (Fragmented)
3. Aimless (No target)
4. Lack of endurance (Fizzles out)
5. No safeguard (Protection)

No point employing a high pressing strategy with slow players. Imagine a tortoise plodding towards you versus to a raging bull... which one is going to create panic and lead to a fatal error? Rangnick's use of Pogba to press the nimble/high IQ players of City is a case in point. Ronaldo up front, a similar issue - just ambles towards players for the most part and there is no real ball winning threat from the supposed spearhead of the press (the player who should set the tone and direction of the press).

If there is only certain players pressing (especially in the first wave of press), it can be very easy to just transfer the ball to an area of no pressure - wasted effort. We have seen Rashford makes those silly 50m sprints to the GK to look like he's putting in a shift. Stupid. Against City, at times Bruno ran towards Ederson or the CB, but Sancho/Elanga and Pogba were a step behind or did not want to press and it looked disjointed. By the second half when the legs had gone, it became even more pronounced to the point we eventually just packed it in altogether.

A press needs to be co-ordinated and the players need to have a plan i.e. we need to ensure that we press in a way where the ball ends up with their RB whose poorer in possession - then we will go in and swoop it. Does it ever feel like we have been able to target a specific player or area of the pitch the way opponents have done to say AWB? Do our players even have the intelligence and commitment to want to carry out a targeted pressing strategy?

Plentiful reserves of sprint endurance is key for a team to becoming renowned as a pressing team. If teams know you don't have the stamina to persist with it, they will set up in a way to absorb the press and then kill you off once you're burnt out. A solution to this problem is to pick and choose periods of the game in which to press. What is also key is to effectively win the game during the period of the game where you have exerted most effort and then sit on the lead. United were unable to do this against City (just about got to 1-1) and got picked off with nothing left in the tank. Our poor fitness is one of the reasons we fail to hold on to leads since Rangnick took charge, we gas ourselves out.

- 36 yr old up front who just wants to goal poach (Ronaldo)
- A winger who doesn't want to bomb up and down (Rashford)
- A midfielder who doesn't want to cover every blade of grass at intensity (Pogba)
- A fat full back (Shaw)
- Pedestian CBs (Maguire/Lindelof)

Is it any wonder that we get outrun so often? it also increases the workload on players like McFred and Bruno. Very hard to be a successful 11 aside team when you have so many lazy or non-dynamic players.

Finally, behind waves of pressure you need a backline capable of defending a high line - a deeper set defence will lead to a large gap between the waves of pressure and it will be too easy to bypass the press. This backline should be able to deal with long passes/fast counters. Lindelof and Maguire is not a well suited CB pairing to defending in a high line situation, compare it to the athleticism of Konate/VVD/Matip/Gomez. Another key component is the CDM area which acts as a sweeper to intercept any passes/loose balls which beat the waves of press.

United have headless chickens in McFred who are not there to sweep up. They are better at joining in with the press (i.e. more Henderson than a Fabinho) and this can leave gaping holes in front of the defence once the press has been bypassed.

Honestly whether Rangnick is in charge or not, if ETH and Poch were to take over and try to modernise us, there would have to be an almighty transfer window and cultural/physical reset for it to happen. No manager would be able to fix this in a season and certainly not without serious financial backing from the club.

 

[captain666]

Far too many problems for a new manager to fix in a season,2 new full backs,centre half,2 midfielders at least plus a striker required.Major outgoings needed this summer before we can even think about a reboot,the whole place is too toxic.
We should be getting rid of AWB ,Maguire,Shaw,Ronaldo,Mata,Rashford ,Lingard and Henderson for starters

 

[eire-red]

1. Lack of dynamism (Slow Approach)
2. Lack of commitment (Fragmented)
3. Aimless (No target)
4. Lack of endurance (Fizzles out)
5. No safeguard (Protection)

No point employing a high pressing strategy with slow players. Imagine a tortoise plodding towards you versus to a raging bull... which one is going to create panic and lead to a fatal error? Rangnick's use of Pogba to press the nimble/high IQ players of City is a case in point. Ronaldo up front, a similar issue - just ambles towards players for the most part and there is no real ball winning threat from the supposed spearhead of the press (the player who should set the tone and direction of the press).

If there is only certain players pressing (especially in the first wave of press), it can be very easy to just transfer the ball to an area of no pressure - wasted effort. We have seen Rashford makes those silly 50m sprints to the GK to look like he's putting in a shift. Stupid. Against City, at times Bruno ran towards Ederson or the CB, but Sancho/Elanga and Pogba were a step behind or did not want to press and it looked disjointed. By the second half when the legs had gone, it became even more pronounced to the point we eventually just packed it in altogether.

A press needs to be co-ordinated and the players need to have a plan i.e. we need to ensure that we press in a way where the ball ends up with their RB whose poorer in possession - then we will go in and swoop it. Does it ever feel like we have been able to target a specific player or area of the pitch the way opponents have done to say AWB? Do our players even have the intelligence and commitment to want to carry out a targeted pressing strategy?

Plentiful reserves of sprint endurance is key for a team to becoming renowned as a pressing team. If teams know you don't have the stamina to persist with it, they will set up in a way to absorb the press and then kill you off once you're burnt out. A solution to this problem is to pick and choose periods of the game in which to press. What is also key is to effectively win the game during the period of the game where you have exerted most effort and then sit on the lead. United were unable to do this against City (just about got to 1-1) and got picked off with nothing left in the tank. Our poor fitness is one of the reasons we fail to hold on to leads since Rangnick took charge, we gas ourselves out.

- 36 yr old up front who just wants to goal poach (Ronaldo)
- A winger who doesn't want to bomb up and down (Rashford)
- A midfielder who doesn't want to cover every blade of grass at intensity (Pogba)
- A fat full back (Shaw)
- Pedestian CBs (Maguire/Lindelof)

Is it any wonder that we get outrun so often? it also increases the workload on players like McFred and Bruno. Very hard to be a successful 11 aside team when you have so many lazy or non-dynamic players.

Finally, behind waves of pressure you need a backline capable of defending a high line - a deeper set defence will lead to a large gap between the waves of pressure and it will be too easy to bypass the press. This backline should be able to deal with long passes/fast counters. Lindelof and Maguire is not a well suited CB pairing to defending in a high line situation, compare it to the athleticism of Konate/VVD/Matip/Gomez. Another key component is the CDM area which acts as a sweeper to intercept any passes/loose balls which beat the waves of press.

United have headless chickens in McFred who are not there to sweep up. They are better at joining in with the press (i.e. more Henderson than a Fabinho) and this can leave gaping holes in front of the defence once the press has been bypassed.

Honestly whether Rangnick is in charge or not, if ETH and Poch were to take over and try to modernise us, there would have to be an almighty transfer window and cultural/physical reset for it to happen. No manager would be able to fix this in a season and certainly not without serious financial backing from the club.

The key point for me, which I don't see mentioned enough, is keeping the ball. City and Liverpool are the best right now, but I think Pep's Barca were the best at pressing.

But one thing all of the top pressing teams have in common is, on average, probably 60-65% possession. Even with with best will in the world, it is impossible to press fully for 90 mins I think. That takes incredible organisation and fitness, and a quality bench. Even one of the fittest teams in the league, Southampton, can't do it.

It's easier to pres at a high tempo when you're only doing it 30-35% of the time. Pressing is worthless if you can't keep the ball when you do win it back.

 

[11101]

High pressing is hard, physically and mentally. A manager cannot do it from the sidelines he needs trusted players on the pitch to uphold and enforce the standards he sets. Maguire is the figurehead of our failings there but he is not the only one.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Fair points. But don't you think we have start coaching these things into our players so that the ones who can be mounded are and the culture sets in that the club? Everything isn't about the here and now.

 

[Offsideagain]

Wrong bloke with the wrong players. Because the board dithered, again, we missed out on Conte who I rate higher than Ralf. If this board, full of accountants, bankers and marketing people, hire Poch in the summer it’s going to be crap all over again for at least 18 months by which time they will have panicked and sacked him. Groundhog Day.

 

[Abraxas]

Some great points.

On the individuals front, it is clear some should be willing and able to press and one man realistically cannot. It is probably unreasonable to have ever expected that Ronaldo would. In fact I think we all knew that wouldn't happen but there was a perhaps misguided notion that others could compensate. In the coming seasons it is clear we will need to move away from Ronaldo as his form declines and it's difficult to play the type of football a new manager would want with no legs up front.

However, for the life of me I can't find any good reason why the likes of Bruno, Sancho, Rashford, previously Greenwood and now Elanga can't physically and mentally operate an effective press. What possible explanation is there except they cannot be arsed? They're all young men, they should all be fit and they should all be prepared to do what a manager says.

A lot of it is simple idleness rather than a genuine excuse to be found.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Wrong bloke with the wrong players. Because the board dithered, again, we missed out on Conte who I rate higher than Ralf. If this board, full of accountants, bankers and marketing people, hire Poch in the summer it’s going to be crap all over again for at least 18 months by which time they will have panicked and sacked him. Groundhog Day.

I think we continue to focus too narrowly on the single issue, like the manager. Ralf is an interim, would we have been better sticking with Carrick, probably not but who knows. I think we do know that the team had no clear identity under Ole, and there was no clear philosophy across the club. THere hasnt been one since Fergie left, and in his latter years it seemed to be a pragmatic approach rather than clear belief system. WE dont have the squad to press, imagine Roaldo and Pogba. In fact pogba seems capable of little more than a jog these days.

Conte I dont know, his press utterances in cren weeks dont inspire me, he seems too ready for a fight and we have had enough of that. Also, the whole club beeds a rebuild, and a proper football structure, not sure Conte is the one for that

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

Makes you wonder why they went for Ralf, if they’d have analysed the squad just a little they’d have realised it just isn’t capable of playing his style of football regardless of how long he stayed.
Or why Ralf looked at this squad and decided to even go down this path? If his aim is simply to achieve top four, why over complicate things? Surely after his three hour phone conversation with Ole about the squad, he learnt enough to realise that this team cannot gengenpress?

The most impressive ting I have noticed about Ralf so far is the way he speaks, he must have performed so well in his interview that logic went out of the window regarding whether it was actually a good fit or not.

 

[Raees]

The key point for me, which I don't see mentioned enough, is keeping the ball. City and Liverpool are the best right now, but I think Pep's Barca were the best at pressing.

But one thing all of the top pressing teams have in common is, on average, probably 60-65% possession. Even with with best will in the world, it is impossible to press fully for 90 mins I think. That takes incredible organisation and fitness, and a quality bench. Even one of the fittest teams in the league, Southampton, can't do it.

It's easier to pres at a high tempo when you're only doing it 30-35% of the time. Pressing is worthless if you can't keep the ball when you do win it back.

Brilliant point to be fair - totally agree.

 

[kouroux]

Pressing their keeper makes me laugh. Bruno and Rashford love doing that

 

[Rozay]

Wrong bloke with the wrong players. Because the board dithered, again, we missed out on Conte who I rate higher than Ralf. If this board, full of accountants, bankers and marketing people, hire Poch in the summer it’s going to be crap all over again for at least 18 months by which time they will have panicked and sacked him. Groundhog Day.

As opposed to the other clubs who have a bunch of ex-players on their boards? How about Sir Bobby and Sir Alex? I suspect they would like Pochettino too.

 

[Ali Dia]

The key point for me, which I don't see mentioned enough, is keeping the ball. City and Liverpool are the best right now, but I think Pep's Barca were the best at pressing.

But one thing all of the top pressing teams have in common is, on average, probably 60-65% possession. Even with with best will in the world, it is impossible to press fully for 90 mins I think. That takes incredible organisation and fitness, and a quality bench. Even one of the fittest teams in the league, Southampton, can't do it.

It's easier to pres at a high tempo when you're only doing it 30-35% of the time. Pressing is worthless if you can't keep the ball when you do win it back.

Very good point

 

[bond19821982]

The key point for me, which I don't see mentioned enough, is keeping the ball. City and Liverpool are the best right now, but I think Pep's Barca were the best at pressing.

But one thing all of the top pressing teams have in common is, on average, probably 60-65% possession. Even with with best will in the world, it is impossible to press fully for 90 mins I think. That takes incredible organisation and fitness, and a quality bench. Even one of the fittest teams in the league, Southampton, can't do it.

It's easier to pres at a high tempo when you're only doing it 30-35% of the time. Pressing is worthless if you can't keep the ball when you do win it back.

Liverpool did it in the beginning with Klopp. Lucas, Milner and Lallana were the players. Thing is , Liverpool board was wiling to give Klopp time and he had enough time to build it as per his template. Klopp had lot of inconsistent results in the beginning and we even called him as a fraud here.

Ralph is tasked to do the impossible with some lazy players and a top 4 to achieve. You give him free hand and we will be a high pressing team by next year with some key signings.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

The best pressing teams do exactly that, press as a team. So often we see one solitary player closing a defender down, only to be taken out of the game with a couple of passes as his nearest team mates are about 30 yards behind. Pressing is useless if we're only pressing the ball and not the passing opportunities at the same time, yet that's exactly what we do.

We can only speculate what the problem is, but I doubt RR's plan is just for Bruno to press on his own whilst everyone is motionless. It seems the players aren't buying in to his approach. He sent Rashford on the other day, and he barely moved unless he had the ball. That surely can't be the plan.

 

[Bilbo]

Makes you wonder why they went for Ralf, if they’d have analysed the squad just a little they’d have realised it just isn’t capable of playing his style of football regardless of how long he stayed.
Or why Ralf looked at this squad and decided to even go down this path? If his aim is simply to achieve top four, why over complicate things? Surely after his three hour phone conversation with Ole about the squad, he learnt enough to realise that this team cannot gengenpress?

The most impressive ting I have noticed about Ralf so far is the way he speaks, he must have performed so well in his interview that logic went out of the window regarding whether it was actually a good fit or not.

Where does the line get drawn on making the change though? Do you wait until you have the players to hire the coach, or do you hire the coach to sign the players? Ultimately there's never a bad time to make a change in the right direction.

 

[Hansi Fick]

The key point for me, which I don't see mentioned enough, is keeping the ball. City and Liverpool are the best right now, but I think Pep's Barca were the best at pressing.

But one thing all of the top pressing teams have in common is, on average, probably 60-65% possession. Even with with best will in the world, it is impossible to press fully for 90 mins I think. That takes incredible organisation and fitness, and a quality bench. Even one of the fittest teams in the league, Southampton, can't do it.

It's easier to pres at a high tempo when you're only doing it 30-35% of the time. Pressing is worthless if you can't keep the ball when you do win it back.

Very good point.
Counter-pressing isn't measured in minutes, it's measured in seconds. It's how you react to the moment of losing the ball. And you react by trying to get it back immediately. What's before, and after? You have possession of the ball.

Of course, the vulgar strain of the famed "Rangnick school" (which would be better called a trend of pressing and transition focused coaching monopolized and nurtured by the clubs Rangnick helped built up, which has now spawned a majority of the managers currently employed by Bundesliga clubs) does exactly that - a focus on moments of intense pressing without being good at possession and without the kind of positional play needed for good possesion, as it tries to exploit the won back balls for moments of countering themselves.
It kind of works, for better or worse, in Bundesliga because they all do it, so the picture of the average Bundesliga game is one of relentless, haphazard pressure in the middle of the park, nonstop challenges, turnovers, fouls, fighting for 2nd balls, and then every now and then a breakthrough with a rash half-counter including hasty horrible finishing. Mutually assured destruction, if you will, and what is being destroyed is a consistent footballing performance.

Klopp has moved on after his experience in his last BVB season, when this transition-focused mix of countering and couterpressing hit a hard brick wall, both due to his own players losing their edge (post winning the World Cup and faced with an insurmountable Pep-coached Bayern) and to the small teams just starting to park the bus, and then his BVB could helplessly wait for transitional moments until kickoff after conceding. The PL has lower table teams somewhat adept at sitting back and soaking up pressure (not adept enough to stop Pep of course), that's why Klopp improved his possession game and why Rangnick is struggling.

Funnily, to me, what Rangnick seems to have improved, for a while, since taking over Man United was actually the ability for crisp one-touch passing moves, without being able to better the big picture against the ball. Ironically, Man United fans can now admire 'patterns of play' for a while, before handing over the handle of games like before.

 

[mu4c_20le]

If it's so simple, don't you think the godfather of gegenpressing would have figured it out by now and made adjustments?

 

[Speako]

We are also far too slow in speed of thought most of the time, to be effective and damaging. Having a half way line view on Sunday, the difference in the two sets of player’s ability to transition quickly once they’d won the ball was frightening. We hesitate, pass backwards, sideways, safely, slowly. No risk, no quality. We did it well twice all game, once brought a goal. City assessed, moved, adapted and executed at pace, each time, every time, we couldn’t live with it. You can stick eleven Usain Bolts or Mo Farahs on the pitch, if they can’t think quickly enough with football intelligence in this league, forget it.

 

[Tarrou]

some of our players just can't do it, they don't have the physicality and likely never will

others just aren't fit enough yet

one or two can do it already.. maybe Fred and.. Sancho?

it's not something you can implement quickly, that's for sure

 

[VidaRed]

Because the players don't have the technique nor the fitness required to pull it off.

If we are going for ten hag then what rangnick has showed us is that most of the squad isn't capable of playing in this system.

This is a weeding out process in a way, now that the players are being identified who can't handle this way of playing, it is upto the board to move them out or continue with the status quo.

 

[arthurka]

This lot has no desire to work hard and they are in no state to work hard.

 

[youmeletsfly]

I think a pressing strategy takes a few years to implement and needs at least a preseason to properly condition the players.
Added to that, we lack ball retention and, as another poster said above, the top teams have 60-65% possession, so they run for the ball only for 30-35% of the game.

We should also take into consideration that this is not RR's team and his pressing strat wouldn't work here anyway, considering our summer recruitment. This, coupled with the team being demoralized by the results under Ole when RR came in, is a recipe for disaster. It's hard to take a group that barely won a game for a while and tell them "when you lose the ball you need to run more".

Even if Pep would've joined instead of RR, it would have been the same. It's just the wrong team and the wrong moment.

 

[eire-red]

Very good point.
Counter-pressing isn't measured in minutes, it's measured in seconds. It's how you react to the moment of losing the ball. And you react by trying to get it back immediately. What's before, and after? You have possession of the ball.

Of course, the vulgar strain of the famed "Rangnick school" (which would be better called a trend of pressing and transition focused coaching monopolized and nurtured by the clubs Rangnick helped built up, which has now spawned a majority of the managers currently employed by Bundesliga clubs) does exactly that - a focus on moments of intense pressing without being good at possession and without the kind of positional play needed for good possesion, as it tries to exploit the won back balls for moments of countering themselves.
It kind of works, for better or worse, in Bundesliga because they all do it, so the picture of the average Bundesliga game is one of relentless, haphazard pressure in the middle of the park, nonstop challenges, turnovers, fouls, fighting for 2nd balls, and then every now and then a breakthrough with a rash half-counter including hasty horrible finishing. Mutually assured destruction, if you will, and what is being destroyed is a consistent footballing performance.

Klopp has moved on after his experience in his last BVB season, when this transition-focused mix of countering and couterpressing hit a hard brick wall, both due to his own players losing their edge (post winning the World Cup and faced with an insurmountable Pep-coached Bayern) and to the small teams just starting to park the bus, and then his BVB could helplessly wait for transitional moments until kickoff after conceding. The PL has lower table teams somewhat adept at sitting back and soaking up pressure (not adept enough to stop Pep of course), that's why Klopp improved his possession game and why Rangnick is struggling.

Funnily, to me, what Rangnick seems to have improved, for a while, since taking over Man United was actually the ability for crisp one-touch passing moves, without being able to better the big picture against the ball. Ironically, Man United fans can now admire 'patterns of play' for a while, before handing over the handle of games like before.

Some interesting points, especially on the haphazardness of games in the Bundesliga. Remember last season when City played Leeds and it was that crazy, end to end game where the two teams seemed to simply want to out-press each other and it created exactly what you described?

I remember before City went on that incredible winning streak not long after that, Pep cited that game and said he told his players after to calm down, or stop moving so much (something along those lines).

Pressing is great, and the great thing about implementing a pressing style is that it doesn't rely on how much you've spent, or who has the best team, if you have a top coach capable of organising a team and players with good levels discipline and fitness (not exactly a high bar in my opinion), you can try it.

What people forget is that there's an end goal to the press, i.e to win the ball back. It's what you do when you have the ball that will win you the game. Fair enough, effort off the ball can grind out a draw, or it sets the platform. But you actually have to produce when you do actually get it back. That's why Pep's teams are the best at it, the ball is either won high and a chance might be created, or they choke the midfield, win it back and recycle relentlessly.

When United press, they look like they do it because everyone else is doing it, not because they believe anything will actually come from it.

 

[Giggsy13]

Rangnick has tried but clearly doesn’t have the personnel for it. He has adjusted his approach and formation as well to suit the players as well but they still do feck all.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Makes you wonder why they went for Ralf, if they’d have analysed the squad just a little they’d have realised it just isn’t capable of playing his style of football regardless of how long he stayed.
Or why Ralf looked at this squad and decided to even go down this path? If his aim is simply to achieve top four, why over complicate things? Surely after his three hour phone conversation with Ole about the squad, he learnt enough to realise that this team cannot gengenpress?

The most impressive ting I have noticed about Ralf so far is the way he speaks, he must have performed so well in his interview that logic went out of the window regarding whether it was actually a good fit or not.

The board have made the same mistake as spending hundreds of millions for LVG possessions based play then switching to Jose counter attacking (anti possession). The players don't fit.

If the board were serious about implementing a pressing style and understood how badly suited our current squad is for that style of play they would've invested in January.

They are clueless.

 

[allen7]

For pressing strategy, I noticed city and pool players running at 1.5x speed to retain possession while we generally play at 0.75x speed.

For example, pogba assisted sancho and started jogging at a slow pace towards city penalty area, while sancho had no player to pass except bruno who was covered by 2-3 city defenders. So sancho took the shot on his own and scored eventually.
The key here is that pogba, elanga, even the full backs had considerable time to go near sancho but they were casual and relied on sancho’s individual skill.

same for city second goal, lindelof & mct failed to run towards KDB and watched him score the goal.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Liverpool did it in the beginning with Klopp. Lucas, Milner and Lallana were the players. Thing is , Liverpool board was wiling to give Klopp time and he had enough time to build it as per his template. Klopp had lot of inconsistent results in the beginning and we even called him as a fraud here.

Ralph is tasked to do the impossible with some lazy players and a top 4 to achieve. You give him free hand and we will be a high pressing team by next year with some key signings.

And we only give him 6 months to do it, zero signings and an unsuitable squad.

They are setting us up to fail every fecking time

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Excellent post. Getting fed up of hearing by posters on here saying there’s no desire. They sound just like Ole saying people need to work harder. It’s ridiculous, the players obviously try their hardest, they just aren’t all physically inclined to play like Park Ji Sun. Pogba, McTominay, Maguire etc are big lads and would never be able to play this way no matter how hard they tried.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Everyone has to be at it. If one player isnt, the whole thing collapses.

 

[Matt851]

Players aren't suited to it but also rangnick doesn't have the cv required to get buy in from a difficult group if players. You could also argue that yet again we have hired a manager past their sell by date.

Everything I have read indicates that we hired rangnick because he had a good relationship with murtough and Ed. So another appointment made based on personal relationships

 

[Maticmaker]

I think Ralf has already got the message, but he's 'between a rock and a hard place' on pressing, with this team.

Watching our attempts to 'press' would, if we were watching another team, be laughable, but its not, its our team and its sadly woeful and frankly I get embarrassed for the players.

There is an old saying about "who would you want in the trenches with you" ... none of our lot! Even Fred, who at times and despite his silly/repeated mistakes does show some spirit, but even he would probably run back into our trench... with a grenade, that the opposition had stuck down the back of his shorts!

Sadly we are just not equipped with playing personnel who last long in battle, after the first assault by the enemy or our failed attempts, the strategy/plan is the first casualty.

According to official stats, the last fifteen minutes on Sunday we had 8% possession... the white flag had been well and truly raised!

 

[SuperiorXI]

With every passing day it becomes more and more apparent just how much of a poisoned chalice Rangnick has inherited. The club has lots of players that we have spent an absolute fortune on in a scattergun approach... these players are also on very high wages. This means that they're very hard to get rid of. It is something that has festered over many years of mis management... I don't see how we get out of it easily. It's not surprising to me that he isn't able to implement his style of play as it requires traits that our set of jokers severely lack to a man.

It's going to be years of hard slog. The club needs to put the right football heads in place and back them to the hilt, not 50%, not 75%, 100%. Rangnick moving upstairs and ETH sounds like a good step forwards. I'd also be fully behind benching some so-called stars for new signings (on more respectable wages and performance based contracts) or even youth so that Rangnick/ETH can get their styles in place.

Basically if you can't or won't toe the line then feck off.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Managers whos main strength is motivation and pragmatism (Conte, Jose) can get results fast but also their fall comes soon. Managers whos main strength is pure tactics (Pep, Klopp) need time to implement that and pattern of play. Ralf is tactician and because of that, he was wrong type of manager to hire as interim.

Also, our fitness level is awful. It was great pre-season by Ole i guess

 

[Hansi Fick]

Some interesting points, especially on the haphazardness of games in the Bundesliga. Remember last season when City played Leeds and it was that crazy, end to end game where the two teams seemed to simply want to out-press each other and it created exactly what you described?

I remember before City went on that incredible winning streak not long after that, Pep cited that game and said he told his players after to calm down, or stop moving so much (something along those lines).

Pressing is great, and the great thing about implementing a pressing style is that it doesn't rely on how much you've spent, or who has the best team, if you have a top coach capable of organising a team and players with good levels discipline and fitness (not exactly a high bar in my opinion), you can try it.

What people forget is that there's an end goal to the press, i.e to win the ball back. It's what you do when you have the ball that will win you the game. Fair enough, effort off the ball can grind out a draw, or it sets the platform. But you actually have to produce when you do actually get it back. That's why Pep's teams are the best at it, the ball is either won high and a chance might be created, or they choke the midfield, win it back and recycle relentlessly.

When United press, they look like they do it because everyone else is doing it, not because they believe anything will actually come from it.

I have to admit that the picture I paint is somewhat exaggerated and oversimplified - the reality is more grey and complicated but I lack the patience and analytical grasp for that.
I think I know what City-Leeds game you're talking about - the difference is that not just City but Leeds are excellent too on the ball, in their own way, while the average Bundesliga game doesn't have quite that quality - under the pressure passes go astray more often than not, balls can't be controlled, the ball goes out, then there's set piece interruptions etc., just an overall feeling of chaos and waste of energy. It's just not that pleasing an experience as a Pep-Bielsa game.

 

[bond19821982]

And we only give him 6 months to do it, zero signings and an unsuitable squad.

They are setting us up to fail every fecking time

Exactly. Hope he gets to know the players and can help to build a base for the next manager.

 

[sugar_kane]

I like Rangnick as a tactician, he seems like a decent, honest fellow and he has the right ideas about what needs to change at the club - but I question his ability to motivate a group of players. Apply that to a group of lazy, entitled morons and you have the situation we have now.

Say what you like about Ole, for a good while he was decent at motivating the squad, he had completely ruined this by the end by failing to rotate his fringe players though. Even Jose before his descent into madness was better in this respect, his squad of 2015/16 seemed to be willing to follow his instructions and give their best for him. I've not seen this yet under Rangnick, with the exception of 1 or 2 players (mainly those he has brought into the squad, who are motivated by the sheer fact that they're getting game time)

I also question his ability to dish out a bollocking and get onto the players from the sidelines.

 

[elmo]

Players aren't suited to it but also rangnick doesn't have the cv required to get buy in from a difficult group if players. You could also argue that yet again we have hired a manager past their sell by date.

Everything I have read indicates that we hired rangnick because he had a good relationship with murtough and Ed. So another appointment made based on personal relationships

You need to start showing links if you want to make such claims.

 

[Matthew84!]

Its quite simply, almost half a team has 1 foot out the door as their contracts are up, why would they do anything to help Utd? Others have been put out by the new signings in the summer.
Quite frankly I blame the players over the manager.

 

[elmo]

Exactly. Hope he gets to know the players and can help to build a base for the next manager.

If he really knows them, he'll let a huge load of them walk on a free because they're insufferable pricks who'll only cause the same problem under the next manager.