Exactly what I said in my thread - 'We are a counter attacking team and have to accept it.' Not one of these players suit that style of football except Sancho and even he has been criticized for work rate this season. Even our best player this season - De Gea is no good for this football as all his stats apart from shot stopping is poor.
Why Rangnick has failed to implement an effective pressing strategy
- Thread starter Raees
- Start date
The problem is not necessarily having an interim, although we were told the club had a plan, Ole was an interim while they found a new manager, but he lasted 3 years.
The problem is the lack of consistent playing styles from the managers we hire.
We lurched from LVG to Jose. Opposite types of players required for their contrasting styles of play.
Ole (zero coaching / express yourself) to Ralf (intense coached pressing games). And expect this transition to work for a temporary 6 month period.
We can hope the board are then going to hire another pressing manager as a continuation from Ralf. But after their track record post Fergie, do you trust the club to make the right decision?
Oh, absolutely. The lack of planning has been apparent for a decade now. But I do have hope that Murtough coming in and saying the right things about putting football people front and centre means something will change. It'll be interesting what happens in the summer for sure.
I would be far more confident if Ralf had a proper job rather than consultant, his track record as a DoF and building football structures is very strong and certainly leagues ahead of Murtough, The fact that Murtough also appointed Fletcher does not inspire me, given his complete lack of relevant experience and qualifictions. Still, hopefully things can only get better...
The question before us why wasn't Ralf's pressing system implemented. It's pretty clear the players weren't having it.
Agreed, best post in this thread. We can't get a hold of games to begin with so if we're pressing in the first half we're completely finished by the second.
It's hard to google for something you made up.
Most reports only mention that they have a huge amount of respect for Rangnick but you're twisting it into having a great relationship with him
We lack sharpness, (fitness?), willingness (physical ability) to consistently press in groups of 5, the ability (discipline/commitment?) to move with speed on recovering the ball, to move forward together into spaces to allow for more options on the transition....so much seems beyond us to play an effective pressing game. I think we don't have enough of the right players for that type of game frankly.
Last edited:
Players are unfit, Ole let them train badly, which is why they loved him, didn't want him to leave, their intention was to do the best they can for Ole to stay, but we were struggling to maintain intensity for 90 mins.
And Ole's style of football was not very demanding either. RR's pressing style is a drastic change, in the required physical intensity and also the intention, which brings me to the next reason, most players don't give a shit.
And Ole's style of football was not very demanding either. RR's pressing style is a drastic change, in the required physical intensity and also the intention, which brings me to the next reason, most players don't give a shit.
Klopp finished 8 in his first campaign when he came in early October. Tuchel made it to top 4 for the same reasons we made it last year. Leicester, Tottenham collapsing and Arsenal being Arsenal. To make a team with the less kms per match a pressing team, needs time.
Points about possession are spot on. If you watch other pressing teams you'll see they counter this differently.
City have the ball for the vast majority of the game, containing energy at the same time. They press immediately and intensely when they lose it. Liverpool do the same for the most part, but in games where they aren't guaranteed possession, they will hunt in packs at specific points in the match. It's like deploying coordinated/targeted presses.
We suffer for a host of reasons. We are not good enough in possession to keep the ball in effective areas of the pitch, and we are seemingly not fit enough to press heavily for 90 minutes. Our drop offs in the second half of games we need to maintain a press are telling still.
TLDR - our squad is not suited to Ragnick's tactics.
City have the ball for the vast majority of the game, containing energy at the same time. They press immediately and intensely when they lose it. Liverpool do the same for the most part, but in games where they aren't guaranteed possession, they will hunt in packs at specific points in the match. It's like deploying coordinated/targeted presses.
We suffer for a host of reasons. We are not good enough in possession to keep the ball in effective areas of the pitch, and we are seemingly not fit enough to press heavily for 90 minutes. Our drop offs in the second half of games we need to maintain a press are telling still.
TLDR - our squad is not suited to Ragnick's tactics.
We brought him in at a terrible time. There's a reason why the sensible clubs sacked their managers around the international break earlier in the season.
Then in terms of the pressing structure quite a few things go wrong.
The forwards overcomit - and then tire themselves out. You need to know when to give up on the press and just keep shape. Which players are we trying to force the ball into by pressing? You've got to target specific players and you've got to also try and force them into certain situations (i.e. close off the easy pass with their strong foot)
The second line, isn't active in the press. You have maybe one or two players chasing the ball but the guys behind aren't very active in closing passing lanes and angles.
Then the most important one is our backline instinctively drop back. For pressing to work, as a whole team you need to hold your lines high when you're trying to press. Our backline wants to drop back, and are way more comfortable defending the space in front of them rather than the space in behind.
What makes this worse is, they've been battered and humiliated so many times - I can't even blame the players. We've shattered their confidence by letting them get repeatedly humiliated this season. They just don't have the confidence to be able to try and play in such a brave way, which takes them way out of their comfort zone.
Then in terms of the pressing structure quite a few things go wrong.
The forwards overcomit - and then tire themselves out. You need to know when to give up on the press and just keep shape. Which players are we trying to force the ball into by pressing? You've got to target specific players and you've got to also try and force them into certain situations (i.e. close off the easy pass with their strong foot)
The second line, isn't active in the press. You have maybe one or two players chasing the ball but the guys behind aren't very active in closing passing lanes and angles.
Then the most important one is our backline instinctively drop back. For pressing to work, as a whole team you need to hold your lines high when you're trying to press. Our backline wants to drop back, and are way more comfortable defending the space in front of them rather than the space in behind.
What makes this worse is, they've been battered and humiliated so many times - I can't even blame the players. We've shattered their confidence by letting them get repeatedly humiliated this season. They just don't have the confidence to be able to try and play in such a brave way, which takes them way out of their comfort zone.
Arsenal are no longer Arsenal though unfortunately - Arteta is doing a good job there (which speaks in favour of giving a manager time) and they are starting to look like a very decent team. They will easily beat us to 4th this year and push on from there next year whilst we will languish, again.
As far as I know Gegenpressing is something Rangnick helped build but did not perfect.
The perfected version is more with tuchel and klopp and can be seen with their CV differences.
I'm not surprised if our players can feel this with Rangnick's tactics seeming a bit old or not good enough for them.
The perfected version is more with tuchel and klopp and can be seen with their CV differences.
I'm not surprised if our players can feel this with Rangnick's tactics seeming a bit old or not good enough for them.
Arsenal are the problem, otherwise I do believe that RR would have secured us top 4. The thing is if we do want to transform into a pressing, modern team, it's OK if we write off this season. The thing is that we do not aim to become champions, only top 4 candidates. So,even if we write this season off, nothing guarantees that we are laying a plan to challenge for the league.
Are you sure we are not the problem?
Hahaha indeed. We are self-destructive.Are you sure we are not the problem?
His own fault by favouring players that don't suit such tactics
Spot on. We did it against CP and it worked. Then we stopped. For the press to work all the players need to be disciplined. We are not disciplined enough. All the players have to be on the same wavelength. We are not. The defense has to push up and they are not doing it. I don't think Bruno will succeed in a team that needs disciplined working.
This team is not for that kind of football.
I would play a diamond with this team with Telles on the left midfield, Bruno on top with Ronaldo and Sancho up front with Dalot right midfield and try Bailly in midfield. Yes Bailly. Why? Because he is very quick, can tackle, can dribble and can head and is strong. He won't be any worse than mcfred.
You seem to assume that he did not learn anything from their successes. I do not buy it. He clearly loves the theoretical side of the game, and would have been closely examining how their gegenpressing have evolved.
My impression is that so far the players are not on board with his view of the game. It is part of his job to get the players to do what he wants, and in that he is at least partially failing.
Saying that, I could say the same for his predecessors, so ultimately, we are suffering from players who think they understand the game better than their managers. We have been suffering from this for quite a while now.
Pep was almost out of top 4 in his first season. It isn't an easy task.
Klopp and Tuchels early results in the league were nothing special either, many many draws.