I mean it's a pretty obvious area in which we need improvement and has been for some time. Surely we can afford to take a punt on someone who isn't Matic/ Fred/ McTominay who are all equally ineffective for different reasons?
Why the reluctance to sign a defensive midfielder?
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Who says we're reluctant?
Priority has not been rebuilding the team but making marquee signings. Areas of weakness going into this signing season were central midfield and central defense. Right wing has been a weakness in the past several years but Greenwood proved last season that he's capable of 17 to 20 goals playing in that position. Man Utd passed up signing a central midfielder and instead signed a right winger. An outstanding player. A marquee signing. The latest signing is Ronaldo. Man Utd have a number of excellent players for the position he will play, central attacker. But he matches the club's top criteria for a marquee signing. Meanwhile the hole in central midfield continues. In fact the team lacks an adequate backup in central midfield.
In two years time Man Utd Will have an aging Rolando and their top opponents will have Kane & Haaland. I feel badly for Ole. He had a plan to rebuild the team but it's pretty clear the owners are running the show. Without an adequate central midfield the team is hardly likely to meet today's giddy expectations and Ole is a likely casualty by January.
I keep reading the same ridiculous statement that with Rolando Man Utd have one of the best central defenders, one of the best strikers and one of the best central midfielders in the Premier League. But who might that midfielder be? Pogba can't play in midfield with the current cast. He has to play in some kind of modified left wing position. The team that is likely to start with Rolando will have their two best young talents riding the bench, Rashford & Greenwood. What a way to build your future.
In two years time Man Utd Will have an aging Rolando and their top opponents will have Kane & Haaland. I feel badly for Ole. He had a plan to rebuild the team but it's pretty clear the owners are running the show. Without an adequate central midfield the team is hardly likely to meet today's giddy expectations and Ole is a likely casualty by January.
I keep reading the same ridiculous statement that with Rolando Man Utd have one of the best central defenders, one of the best strikers and one of the best central midfielders in the Premier League. But who might that midfielder be? Pogba can't play in midfield with the current cast. He has to play in some kind of modified left wing position. The team that is likely to start with Rolando will have their two best young talents riding the bench, Rashford & Greenwood. What a way to build your future.
There’s like 5 threads discussing this did we need another?
We need to thin the squad let alone raise some money.
We need to thin the squad let alone raise some money.
Even Ferguson found that position hard to fill.
Fergie always said there wasn’t space in his teams for a defensive midfielder. He expected his midfielders to be able to be as important to the attack as they are the defence.
True, Carrick was the last successful acquisition of that type under Ferguson and its extremely hard to find someone with such two way impact.
Because we don't just want a defensive midfielder, we want someone who is a defensive beast, AND who sets the tempo and is a ball player.
That's a tough ask.
That's a tough ask.
Because realistically maybe only 3 proven players that can play it to the level we require, all of which are not available or too much money. Some of the players being mentioned aren't CDM's.....
I think the Ronaldo signing proves its bullshit we need to spend to buy. We could easily buy a CM/DM and have a chance of the league.
Because Ole likes leaning on the crutch that is McFred.
He feels he needs two selfless hardworkers in there to balance out the flair players.
In my opinion that's due to his deficiency as a coach and needing it to mask the fact he can't figure out how to play high level football with only one holder like the best coaches in the world can do.
He feels he needs two selfless hardworkers in there to balance out the flair players.
In my opinion that's due to his deficiency as a coach and needing it to mask the fact he can't figure out how to play high level football with only one holder like the best coaches in the world can do.
I wonder if Martial/Monaco would fancy a one year loan deal as part of a deal for their DM.
Can’t say I’ve seen any of him myself but everyone seems to be licking their lips at the prospect of signing him.
DM aside, I really don’t think there’s any harm in adding a few young bodies in the centre of the park, Camavinga and Moriba both leaving to go elsewhere could be looked back on with a lot of regret in a few years time.
Can’t say I’ve seen any of him myself but everyone seems to be licking their lips at the prospect of signing him.
DM aside, I really don’t think there’s any harm in adding a few young bodies in the centre of the park, Camavinga and Moriba both leaving to go elsewhere could be looked back on with a lot of regret in a few years time.
Finding it a bit strange that there's essentially zero links to any DM targets this summer so far.
I know Kante has been mentioned but let's be realistic. I hope it's just because it's a very important position and we're trying to avoid leaks.
I know Kante has been mentioned but let's be realistic. I hope it's just because it's a very important position and we're trying to avoid leaks.
Maybe ETH is going to turn Lindelof/AWB into a DM monster
This. Buying a DM for the sake of it and you’ll likely to end up with another Schneiderlin.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's somebody a bit off the radar and that's why the links aren't strong. Even this Sangarre guy wouldn't have been the first name that springs to people's mind until the link pops up.
I'm guessing with ETH just walking in the door the club will take a month assessing any recommendations from him to see how much they can stretch the budget to. If FDJ is the main target then its probably £70m off the budget leaving less for other areas. If he doesn't come then obviously things change but to be fair the only players linked to us have been Frenkie, Timber and to a certain extent Nuñez. 2 of those players have worked under ETH which could just be lazy journalism.
TBH if we sign just those 3 I'd see it as a successful window. FDJ isn't a DM but he does seem comfortable enough playing deep without running around like a headless chicken which could be enough to take us into next season when the problem can be addressed once and for all.
Exaclty wrong.
Because you cant find the unicorn Viera / Makalele / Kante etc , instead of pragmatically buying a decent destroyer DM youve stuck with the useless mcfred.
And should the unicorn turn up this hypothetical destroyer would a) be able be sold or b) would be a damn useful squad player
We only want strikers.
If we score more goals, we would win every game.
Forget any defensive players, that's so 2021, Striker is where is at.
Love from J Glazer.
If we score more goals, we would win every game.
Forget any defensive players, that's so 2021, Striker is where is at.
Love from J Glazer.
De Jong would play the six role and his partner should be someone who offers something both ways and not some center back sitting in front of defense type.....Fred could fill that role, but signing someone too wouldn't be a bad idea, it just goes down the list of priority after purchasing De Jong.
I still remember the voices of discontent when he was signed. Riquelme was the flavour of the summer
We're concentrating on the most important part of ten Hag's puzzle - Frenkie de Jong. He's the key to everything ten Hag plans on implementing to our game.
After he's (hopefully) sewn up, the rest will follow.
After he's (hopefully) sewn up, the rest will follow.
I just don't think there are any DM that really appeals to Ten Hag at the moment in the market. Don't think he just wants a ball winner, he will want at least someone who has good passing ability and comfortable on the ball, and most good DMs that are good off the ball are not good on the ball.
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There is a reason why a DM is not tasked to become a playmaker for so many years in his/her upbringing as a player. The DM's primary job is to win the ball and to make life a living hell to the other team's creative players. We should not expect a Michael Carrick when plenty of teams could do with a N'Golo Kante or a Claude Makelele.
There's always one or two positions that seems to be cursed. Right now half the pitch is cursed though, so I guess that's an improvement curse-wise...
The rightback position never really recovered after G.Neville's prime. The right wing has also been largely shit after Ronaldo left for Madrid, although Valencia had a very good season there. I guess our entire right flank got cursed after the luxury of Neville, Beckham and Ronaldo.
Our central midfield has been in an even more sorry state, though. The only truly great central midfielder(not counting attacking midfielders) from the last 10 years has been Carrick, which is pretty shocking to say the least.
The rightback position never really recovered after G.Neville's prime. The right wing has also been largely shit after Ronaldo left for Madrid, although Valencia had a very good season there. I guess our entire right flank got cursed after the luxury of Neville, Beckham and Ronaldo.
Our central midfield has been in an even more sorry state, though. The only truly great central midfielder(not counting attacking midfielders) from the last 10 years has been Carrick, which is pretty shocking to say the least.
So will he give garner a go or put someone else there that doesn’t play the position ? Even if you don’t fancy anyway a signing could be backup to whoever he would want next year. But you can’t leave a hole open, even if it’s short term.
Agree. The team will rotate around Frenkie. Thats why hes the most important signing ETH can make this summer.
Maybe EtH is just going to go old school with the "you score 3, we'll score 4" approach.
We’ve not got the goal scorers to outscore anyone these days. Our Goal diff last season says all you need to know. EtH has to find a way of conceding less and scoring more. Frenkie will be a great addition to the squad, but we’ve got to turn the GD metric around big time.
Whethe or not the opening statement is true, which I dont believe anyway, there are absolutely loads that can play to a much higer level than the options we currently have. WHo would you consider the three anyway I am guessing Rice and Bellingham are two?
That isnt strictly true, we have been linked (maybe not super heavily or with concrete links) to several over the last few months, some of which have already moved and some that are probably not targets......Kamara, Hadira, Kone, Laimer, Fernandez spring to mind instantly
I agree with you, I hate the modern talk of number 6, number 8, defensive midfielder etc etc. We should be looking for an all rounder though the priority should be there ability to defend and plug spaces intelligently reading the game without the ball....Fred certainly isnt that player to me anyway
De jong is going to be deepest player so his partner would be someone who would look to receive the ball slightly higher in the build up phase, Fred-De Jong would work similarly to Fred-Matic both on and off the ball.
Matic would do some ball carrying while Fred covers but usually Matic starts deeper and would play at the base of attack same role would be played by De Jong even though they aren't exactly same profile.
Although like I said I'm not against another signing coming in.
I'm not sure we do. What we really have is a reluctance to have more than one top Midfielder.
We had Pogba. Never went proper big on a partner. Should have been Fabinho or Kante.
Now we are probably getting FDJ to replace Pogba. Will we get FDJ a proper Midfield partner anytime soon. I doubt it.
We had Pogba. Never went proper big on a partner. Should have been Fabinho or Kante.
Now we are probably getting FDJ to replace Pogba. Will we get FDJ a proper Midfield partner anytime soon. I doubt it.
Whitwell suggested we are prepared to wait for Bellingham next summer, therefore wouldn't be surprised if we just look for an existing player to see us through until then. Yes I know that's not ideal but feel focus could next turn to either LCB/forward to play along the front 3/RB
The simple reason for this seems to be our managers fully believe in McFred
We won't be signing Bellingham with De Jong here, makes no sense. He's an attack minded midfielder. I can see Rice being the ultimate target, but it's a long way away.
We probably get one, don't worry.
A lot of folk name rice as the ultimate grail to look forward to but I'm not very sold on that idea, nonetheless with de jong in the bag, I'll imagine many of our worst woes will be addressed simply by having a more composed midfield.
A lot of folk name rice as the ultimate grail to look forward to but I'm not very sold on that idea, nonetheless with de jong in the bag, I'll imagine many of our worst woes will be addressed simply by having a more composed midfield.
Because Glazers dont't give a shit or we are just incapable of doing it, call if it what you want
The amazing thing is that some people here think that we have already signed FDJ
The amazing thing is that some people here think that we have already signed FDJ
I doubt the Glazers choose our transfer targets or make transfers.
If the manager identifies a realistic target I think we will get it. I don't think we will be getting De Jong.