Will Bruno achieve legend status at utd?

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

If he lost the moaning, he could become somewhat of a **** figure like Riquelme. A maverick that can produce moments of magic and is admired by the fans for it but, unfortunately for him, born 15-20 years too late. Demanding to be at the heart of everything in this age of system teams and requiring a group of workhorses in the midfield to allow him his free role at a time when technique and ball retention is paramount in the midfield battle. A super player for a team that possibly won't win anything of notice. Still, you could get to work on Monday and brag: "I was at the game on Saturday and i saw first hand that Bruno pass/goal/move".

I don't get why people get so worked up. You can believe that he's a great player and fun to watch when he finds a good vein of form and still be of the opinion that he is not the best thing since sliced bread. There have been players whose impact had been far greater than Bruno's at the highest level, players whose individual skills were much better and they were worshipped by the fans, yet their teams were better off without them in the end. It's a mix of "once in a lifetime" like individual skills and a **** of personality aura about them. I think Bruno falls short on both accounts and his impact has been overstated by a fanbase that's desperate for silver linings. A radio producer in my part of the world mentioned the other day that United have gone from a high water mark of 68 goals without him (Martial, Rashford and Lukaku up front) to one of 73 goals (Greenwood and Cavani instead of Lukaku) with him. That's how big his impact has been.

Anyway, it would be a more interesting discussion about Rashford. In the, sadly quite possible, scenario of United remaining a 3-7 team with the occasional good run in the domestic cups or in the Europa/Conference League in the foreseeable, Rash could stay here until his mid 30s, not improving a single bit as a footballer, and still manage to become United's top goal scorer of all time by delivering 15-20 goals p/s in all competitions. I don't think he's fit to lace Rooney's boots and i won't even mention the late Sir Bobby. But StatmanDave may think otherwise.

 

[Jeppers7]

Not for each and every single month. I mean over the whole of that period. I mean like the player of the season, not player of the match.

More absolute nonsense…You brought up ‘a couple of months’ which would imply that aside from those few months he has been our best player every other month.

If we now take a bigger view….Can you justify to me how he outperformed Rashford, Casemiro and Martinez last season? Can you then justify how he outperformed Ronaldo, or in fact any other player, the season before?

So there’s two whole seasons out of three full seasons that he’s played. This season he’s been abysmal, the ONLY reason at this point he’d be in the conversation is the 20+ injuries we’ve had.

Now really…He’s been our best performer for the entire time he’s been here, bar a couple of months where Rashford has played well? Bollocks.

 

[Rossa]

Think he's underrated for sure and a very good player. However, unforunately for him, he's playing in the worst United team for ages with dire football. He can, as he has shown multiple times, create more than pretty much anyone else, but people seem to dislike his behaviour. I have no issues with his gesticulations or body language; to me, he appears as if he actually cares and nobody works harder. He deserves to become one that we remember fondly, if not a **** hero, but I have my doubts if he will.

 

[adexkola]

Sounds like a wretched way to be a fan if your legends only come from your trophy winning teams. And believe it or not United have had way more years being bad than good. Hard to believe legends can't come from bad times.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Just saying things, unfortunately don't make them true. Please read this exchange - do you think you're behaving in a reasonable manner:


Forget you're involved for a second - and make an effort to be honest - do you think that's a normal conversation flow?

I disagreed that he's a United legend and you quoted me with an emotionally charged persecution complex post about "slagging Bruno off and pretending United will turn everything around completely as soon as he's gone" <- Where was any of that said here? And how is it relevant to the discussion regarding him supposedly being a United legend?

I asked you to get back on topic - and you replied about me being arrogant - again, because you somehow decided Bruno was being slagged off because I disagreed with the notions of him being a United legend or that he has all credentials for such. Lastly, you made no points. Your reply doesn't even go with or apply to my post that you quoted. This is odd all around.

Well do you expect any decent answers in return, considering you offer no real arguments instead of just saying "We're manchester United" and "Wow"? You basically start out your whole replying to this thread by just brushing off any notion/debate with no real arguments. Expect people to answer in a manner that suits that.

Have you even read the thread and the posts I've made about Bruno - they're full of arguments. You just read one reply and consider that the whole conversation. You're a waste of time. See you on my ignore list.

 

[tothetop96]

The guy is clearly the best player on our team with the best work ethic, and is almost the only player on the team who actually creates anything. I don't know what is wrong with fans trying to make out our best player is the problem when everybody else on the team is actually underperforming. United fans have well and truly lost it

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If he lost the moaning, he could become somewhat of a **** figure like Riquelme. A maverick that can produce moments of magic and is admired by the fans for it but, unfortunately for him, born 15-20 years too late. Demanding to be at the heart of everything in this age of system teams and requiring a group of workhorses in the midfield to allow him his free role at a time when technique and ball retention is paramount in the midfield battle. A super player for a team that possibly won't win anything of notice. Still, you could get to work on Monday and brag: "I was at the game on Saturday and i saw first hand that Bruno pass/goal/move".

I don't get why people get so worked up. You can believe that he's a great player and fun to watch when he finds a good vein of form and still be of the opinion that he is not the best thing since sliced bread. There have been players whose impact had been far greater than Bruno's at the highest level, players whose individual skills were much better and they were worshipped by the fans, yet their teams were better off without them in the end. It's a mix of "once in a lifetime" like individual skills and a **** of personality aura about them. I think Bruno falls short on both accounts and his impact has been overstated by a fanbase that's desperate for silver linings. A radio producer in my part of the world mentioned the other day that United have gone from a high water mark of 68 goals without him (Martial, Rashford and Lukaku up front) to one of 73 goals (Greenwood and Cavani instead of Lukaku) with him. That's how big his impact has been.

Anyway, it would be a more interesting discussion about Rashford. In the, sadly quite possible, scenario of United remaining a 3-7 team with the occasional good run in the domestic cups or in the Europa/Conference League in the foreseeable, Rash could stay here until his mid 30s, not improving a single bit as a footballer, and still manage to become United's top goal scorer of all time by delivering 15-20 goals p/s in all competitions. I don't think he's fit to lace Rooney's boots and i won't even mention the late Sir Bobby. But StatmanDave may think otherwise.

If Rashford was able to score 15-20 goals per season, every season, from now until his mid twenties that would be a fantastic career and he would fully deserve any plaudits that come his way. Not going to happen though.

 

[AndySmith1990]

If he were a great captain comparable to the likes of Robson or Keane, then sure he could, even if we won nothing. But he's not comparable to them. He's erratic, whiny and inconsistent, and he dives. In a great team he'd not be the star player or captain, he's only afforded that privilege here because we build poor teams. For me he's not capable of legend status

 

[Scandi Red]

Sounds like a wretched way to be a fan if your legends only come from your trophy winning teams.

Agreed.

If Rashford was able to score 15-20 goals per season, every season, from now until his mid twenties that would be a fantastic career and he would fully deserve any plaudits that come his way.

Spot on. We have lost our way as fans and become ridiculously spoiled if an academy player can spend his entire career playing for us, score double-digits every year along the way, break the goal-scoring record and still have fans question whether or not said player is a legend.

 

[Castia]

Nowhere near

 

[simplyared]

Think he's underrated for sure and a very good player. However, unforunately for him, he's playing in the worst United team for ages with dire football. He can, as he has shown multiple times, create more than pretty much anyone else, but people seem to dislike his behaviour. I have no issues with his gesticulations or body language; to me, he appears as if he actually cares and nobody works harder. He deserves to become one that we remember fondly, if not a **** hero, but I have my doubts if he will.

Now there's a post worth reading. Cool, calm and collected!
Obviously going on the overall trend on here he's nowhere near legendary status, which myself I don't agree on.
Everyone entitled to their own opinions but some of the reactions ????

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Spot on. We have lost our way as fans and become ridiculously spoiled if an academy player can spend his entire career playing for us, score double-digits every year along the way, break the goal-scoring record and still have fans question whether or not said player is a legend.

When a team is succesful there's definitely an aura that makes all the players at that team seem better than they actually were. With an unsuccesful team doing the opposite, souring the perception of players that the fans would adore if we were regularly winning league titles. So we end up in a scenario where Rashford wouldn't be fit to lace Rooney's boots, despite (hypothetically) scoring 15-20 goals every season until his mid thirties. Despite the fact that Rooney only scored more than 20 goals ,in all competitions, three times in his 13 seasons with United (a feat that Rashford has already matched, after 8 seasons at the club) and was basically finished as a top class footballer by the time he turned 30.

 

[Spark]

In short, no.

No one is going to be a legend until we win trophies again. To become a "legend" (overused word) in a team that wins nothing you have to be truly world-class in a field of dross, consistently. And then stay for 15 years, e.g. Gerard.

Were we to somehow miraculously win a title/compete for all competitions throughout several years, then players like Fernandes would have all the negative aspects of his game ignored that would remain - e.g. his whiny nature etc - and I'm sure people would think back very fondly of his career at United. Incredibly hypothetical though.

On a side note, I don't think that he is the root cause of our poor performances this season (or last), although he has been frustrating of late. I also think his captaincy has more to do with his off-field influence, which is quite clear in how he talked about Greenwood pre-case and Garnacho recently, to name two examples. So a not at all unsurprising candidate for it, in my opinion.

 

[TsuWave]

Well do you expect any decent answers in return, considering you offer no real arguments instead of just saying "We're manchester United" and "Wow"? You basically start out your whole replying to this thread by just brushing off any notion/debate with no real arguments. Expect people to answer in a manner that suits that.

Yes, I do expect people to stay on topic and not randomly start going off about the player being "slagged off and people pretending he's all that's wrong with United", when that isn't what's happening in the thread or post you're replying to. The thread is asking the question if Bruno is a legend with the OP stating that surely he has all credentials without making an argument/elaborating on said credentials. The other reply I quoted in my initial post says "I'd like to think he already is". My disagreeing with those notions is implied by my shock at people considering Bruno a United legend at this moment in time - I don't have to prove a negative in this instance when the people positing that he is a United legend haven't actually argued his case for it.

Have you even read the thread and the posts I've made about Bruno - they're full of arguments. You just read one reply and consider that the whole conversation. You're a waste of time. See you on my ignore list.

I didn’t consider anything the whole conversation. I read your reply to me - which wasn’t applicable and asked you to get back on topic as you veered off track and oddly started talking about Bruno being slagged off. You then jumped into more non-applicable assumptions and ad-hominem - instead of simply saying "My fault, maybe my reply wasn't warranted/applicable". For all the talk about time wasted, this could have all been avoided if you'd just stayed on topic and didn't randomly feel like Bruno was being persecuted simply because I disagreed with the notions that he's currently a United legend and that he has all credentials. Ignore list is a useful tool. Be easy.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

If Rashford was able to score 15-20 goals per season, every season, from now until his mid twenties that would be a fantastic career and he would fully deserve any plaudits that come his way. Not going to happen though.

Would he, really? If most of these goals came in the Europa/Conference League and the Carabao Cup and he remained a 10 goal player in the PL. Don't you think perception shouldn't matter at all and, as the other one keeps repeating, everyone is spoilt except for a select group of fans?

 

[Spark]

When a team is succesful there's definitely an aura that makes all the players at that team seem better than they actually were. With an unsuccesful team doing the opposite, souring the perception of players that the fans would adore if we were regularly winning league titles. So we end up in a scenario where Rashford wouldn't be fit to lace Rooney's boots, despite (hypothetically) scoring 15-20 goals every season until his mid thirties. Despite the fact that Rooney only scored more than 20 goals ,in all competitions, three times in his 13 seasons with United (a feat that Rashford has already matched, after 8 seasons at the club) and was basically finished as a top class footballer by the time he turned 30.

All valid points, in regards to what makes a legend.

However - in terms of "legendary status" in general - Rooney was an all-round greater influence on the team than Rashford has been at any point in his United career. Rooney is the third-highest assister in Prem history with 103, and Rashford is on 39 so far. I distinctly remember that we would never lose a game when Rooney played, with Sky showing the same stat for Rooney as they have recently done for Rodri at Man City. So it's fair to say that Rashford is nowhere near the level of Rooney, even though he's banged in a fair amount of goals himself.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In short, no.

No one is going to be a legend until we win trophies again. To become a "legend" (overused word) in a team that wins nothing you have to be truly world-class in a field of dross, consistently. And then stay for 15 years, e.g. Gerard.

Were we to somehow miraculously win a title/compete for all competitions throughout several years, then players like Fernandes would have all the negative aspects of his game ignored that would remain - e.g. his whiny nature etc - and I'm sure people would think back very fondly of his career at United. Incredibly hypothetical though.

On a side note, I don't think that he is the root cause of our poor performances this season (or last), although he has been frustrating of late. I also think his captaincy has more to do with his off-field influence, which is quite clear in how he talked about Greenwood pre-case and Garnacho recently, to name two examples. So a not at all unsurprising candidate for it, in my opinion.

I don’t think Gerrard would have the legend status he does at Liverpool without the trophies they won while he was there.

Sticking with a club for a long time, or being the best of a bad bunch will seal legend status at clubs with low expectations (Matt Le Tissier) but for clubs like Liverpool and Manchester United it’s not going to happen without winning major trophies.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Would he, really? If most of these goals came in the Europa/Conference League and the Carabao Cup and he remained a 10 goal player in the PL. Don't you think perception shouldn't matter at all and, as the other one keeps repeating, everyone is spoilt except for a select group of fans?

Yes. He really would. And there wouldn’t be any debate about his status if the team regularly won major trophies over that period of time. To keep scoring 15-20 goals every season until his mid thirties would be an amazing career.

If the team doesn't win major trophies, then nope, his achievements and contributions will be belittled by fans unhappy about their teams lack of success. That’s just how it works.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Yes. He really would. And there wouldn’t be any debate about his status if the team regularly won major trophies over that period of time. If not, then nope, his achievements and contributions will be belittled by fans unhappy about their teams lack of success. That’s just how it works.

Fair enough. I disagree, but i accept your opinion. Not about him getting the proper recognition, this goes without saying. But i wouldn't grant him the same status as Sir Bobby or Rooney.

 

[hobbers]

And the man annoys the crap out of the scousers, whats not to like?

Yeah they were so furious at the guy for captaining United to a 7-0 mauling at Anfield.

And playing in the 5-0 and 4-0 maulings the season before.

He absolutely terrorises them.

Sounds like a wretched way to be a fan if your legends only come from your trophy winning teams. And believe it or not United have had way more years being bad than good. Hard to believe legends can't come from bad times.

They can when they're top players who contribute to elevating the players around them and lifting the mood generally. If they dont offer that then of course they need trophies to compensate

And in that area Lingard has done more to be considered a United legend with his FA cup final goal than Bruno.

 

[TsuWave]

Not everyone has to be a legend. It's OK for some players to just be/have been good players for the club. Especially at a historied club.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Fair enough. I disagree, but i accept your opinion. Not about him getting the proper recognition, this goes without saying. But i wouldn't grant him the same status as Sir Bobby or Rooney.

He won’t be granted same status if the team is not successful. That’s my point. At a club like United nobody will ever be given a similar status to the likes of Rooney or Charlton unless they’re part of a team that wins major trophies. And God help any footballer who is linked with the sort of sustained underachievement we’ve seen over the last 10 years. It isn’t a coincidence that not one United player who’s been here for any or all of this period is being talked about as a legend of the club.

 

[El Jefe]

The only people I’d accept calling Bruno a legend are those that started watching us from 2012 onwards. If you saw United of the 90s or 2000s then you know he’s nowhere near one.

In the last decade our best players have been DDG, Bruno and Rashford. If that’s all you know then I guess that’s the closest you’ll get to the feeling of witnessing a legend.

If you’ve watched us through the 90s and 2000s and think Bruno is a legend you must be a WUM.

 

[Ghirahim]

Probably not if he doesn't win a league trophy, Legends are part of teams that win titles.

 

[Scandi Red]

If you’ve watched us through the 90s and 2000s and think Bruno is a legend you must be a WUM.

Or they simply disagree on the metrics? I have counted exactly 3 arguments against Bruno being a legend so far in this thread. Ranging from worst to best argument:

1. "Bruno is whiny and/or unlikeable"
Really? That's where you draw the line? By the way, not all of our legends were likeable. Especially in hindsight or after they retired. This is a terribly weak argument in my opinion. Not to mention, a player's likability is largely dictated by the team's success.


2. "Bruno is not good enough in the big games"
I have already mentioned Park in this thread, so you know that I love big game players. The problem with this argument is that it's infinitely more difficult to be MOTM when your team is constantly playing with its back against the ropes, which has largely been the reality for a very long time now. And this is especially true if you are a midfielder! A goalkeeper may make glorious saves when the goal gets peppered by the likes of Salah and De Bruyne. And physically strong center forward can turn the game around after a cross into the box. But a creator gets stifled under the same circumstances. All in all, this argument would make sense if we were a good team to begin with. But we're not.


3. "Bruno has not won the PL or the CL"
This argument makes sense at least and there is a part of me that agrees. It's the only argument that could stop me from calling Bruno a United legend. But like other posters have written: it's pretty wretched to make this the deciding metric. For me this sucks the soul out of the game and removes pretty much all individualism and magic.

 

[El Jefe]

Sounds like a wretched way to be a fan if your legends only come from your trophy winning teams. And believe it or not United have had way more years being bad than good. Hard to believe legends can't come from bad times.

If you’re at a top club then no it isn’t.

In football it is really easy to be in positions to reach legend status because there are a few trophies each year a team can win. Winning is what makes you a legend for the most part especially if you are the key reason for that win. Bruno has been in positions to earn legendary status but has come up short each time.

This is where he differs from Robson and Gerrard. They made sure their teams won by stepping up in key moments.

 

[Zed 101]

I think legend is a bit strong, but he is a stand out player for many reasons, good and some bad, but he will stay long in memory as a fan, I would put him (in my memory) in the same bracket as Kanchelskis, Sharpe, Webb, Blackmore, Parker, Yorke, McClair, Hughes, Sheringham, Ji-Sung and obviously a few more..... these are players I remember fondly and remember well, who were great players for us but ultimately not legends, other players like Cryuff, Fortune, Silvestre, Phelan, Martin, McGrath and on... I remember the names and faces but very little else.... then there are other player who fall into the real meh! category

 

[FrankWhite]

I think legend is a bit strong, but he is a stand out player for many reasons, good and some bad, but he will stay long in memory as a fan, I would put him (in my memory) in the same bracket as Kanchelskis, Sharpe, Webb, Blackmore, Parker, Yorke, McClair, Hughes, Sheringham, Ji-Sung and obviously a few more..... these are players I remember fondly and remember well, who were great players for us but ultimately not legends, other players like Cryuff, Fortune, Silvestre, Phelan, Martin, McGrath and on... I remember the names and faces but very little else.... then there are other player who fall into the real meh! category

A fun logic/reasoning check regarding Bruno, using four statements I've seen on this thread.

1) He's the reason we play well.
2) He's a consistent performer.
3) He plays pretty much all of our games.
4) We're crap in most of our games.

Are all the statements true? if not, which is the odd one(s) out?

 

[Scandi Red]

This is where he differs from Robson

He was 36 years old and only made 14 apps in the league when he won his first PL trophy.

But of course he would still have been a legend if he retired before this.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

He won’t be granted same status if the team is not successful. That’s my point. At a club like United nobody will ever be given a similar status to the likes of Rooney or Charlton unless they’re part of a team that wins major trophies. And God help any footballer who is linked with the sort of sustained underachievement we’ve seen over the last 10 years. It isn’t a coincidence that not one United player who’s been here for any or all of this period is being talked about as a legend of the club.

I can see where you're coming from but, as i mentioned in the initial post you quoted, it's not the vitriol from the fans that prevents them from attaining a status they would otherwise deserve. You can be a legend of the highest order, even without the trophies, it's silly to think otherwise. Roberto Baggio didn't win anything of note until the twilight of his career (when he was moved to the periphery of the first team plans), but there isn't a single soul that would suggest that he's not one of the best Italian footballers of all time. I remember how i used to tell my Liverpool friends that they would never win the league as long as building a team around Gerrard remains the purpose of their existence. Sacchi pretty much said the same when he called him a great footballer, but not a great player. Still, he had that "**** of personality" thing about him and when the going got tough, he would always stand and be counted. You can't take that away from him. Robson is a United legend. You could easily envision him tearing the world apart at Anfield, had United not broken the British transfer record to attain his services (what was it, 300K more to outbid the scousers?). You may see it otherwise, but i believe Bruno is two or three steps below such players. Both in terms of skill and personality. As for Rashford, he has been cuddled so much at this club, that everything he achieves on a personal level feels painfully artificial at this point.

 

[ColoRed]

assistant
legend

 

[El Jefe]

Or they simply disagree on the metrics? I have counted exactly 3 arguments against Bruno being a legend so far in this thread. Ranging from worst to best argument:

1. "Bruno is whiny and/or unlikeable"
Really? That's where you draw the line? By the way, not all of our legends were likeable. Especially in hindsight or after they retired. This is a terribly weak argument in my opinion. Not to mention, a player's likability is largely dictated by the team's success.


2. "Bruno is not good enough in the big games"
I have already mentioned Park in this thread, so you know that I love big game players. The problem with this argument is that it's infinitely more difficult to be MOTM when your team is constantly playing with its back against the ropes, which has largely been the reality for a very long time now. And this is especially true if you are a midfielder! A goalkeeper may make glorious saves when the goal gets peppered by the likes of Salah and De Bruyne. And physically strong center forward can turn the game around after a cross into the box. But a creator gets stifled under the same circumstances. All in all, this argument would make sense if we were a good team to begin with. But we're not.


3. "Bruno has not won the PL or the CL"
This argument makes sense at least and there is a part of me that agrees. It's the only argument that could stop me from calling Bruno a United legend. But like other posters have written: it's pretty wretched to make this the deciding metric. For me this sucks the soul out of the game and removes pretty much all individualism and magic.

Point number 2 is absolutely the strongest argument against him being one and your points for this read like a flimsy excuse. It’s one thing to not produce world class performances in big games but to be as consistently bad as he’s been points to a problem with him.

For example we got played off the park in the 2011 CL final but Rooney held his own in that game. Not a single person can fault him, we were outmatched but he held his end of the bargain in that game. In Bruno’s case he’s usually one of our worst performers so he can’t use the excuse of the team dragging his performance down when he is one of the main reasons for the poor team performance

Legends are made in big moments or series of moments to put it simply. A player hitting peak form and winning us games in a title run in, a player scoring the winning goal in a final or semifinal, a dominating individual performance that sticks in memory in a high stakes game. These are boxes that at least one needs checking but Bruno has none in four years here despite being in positions to achieve this.


Bruno has no defining moment or series of moments as a United player. Rashford is closer to being a legend than he is as he clearly has moments we can remember.

He was 36 years old and only made 14 apps in the league when he won his first PL trophy.

But of course he would still have been a legend if he retired before this.

Why have you conveniently chosen to ignore Robson’s other trophies?

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

(I consider ALL of the below to be United legends, but I've split them into two groups. The second group consists of players who I have experienced people disagreeing with me on multiple times. So don't shoot the messenger! )

More or less undisputed United legends
Edwards, Charlton, Law, Best, Robson, Schmeichel, Giggs, Scholes, G.Neville, Irwin, Keane, Cantona, Cole, Stam, Rio, Vidic, Rooney

Seems to be up for debate
Beckham, Solskjær*, Evra, Park, Carrick, De Gea, Ronaldo**

* his reputation (unfairly) took a blow after his managerial stint
** (rightfully) fell down after his second stint

The only thing these all have in common are Premier League/English First Division trophies. Some are there primarily because of their hard work, others for their x factor. Some were at the club for a long time, others for just 3 years.

There are multiple players on this list that Bruno is more talented than. There are multiple players on this list that Bruno will have stuck around for longer than this summer. And in terms of hard work and effort, Bruno does in no way look out of place. The only way to exclude Bruno (provided that you agree on the second group as well) is if you consider winning the PL a necessity in order to be considered a legend. Personally I disagree with this distinction so regardless of happens in the upcoming years Bruno has already done enough to warrant a spot in that second group.

Can I shoot the messenger? Because nobody thinks Stam is a United legend while Beckham isn't. That's literally impossible.

 

[Scandi Red]

For example we got played off the park in the 2011 CL final but Rooney held his own in that game.

I love Rooney, but he was never a creative player. And like I said: it's easier for goalkeepers and goal scorers to leave a battering with their heads held high, because you can still nick a goal or save shots under these circumstances. For the rest of the players on the pitch it's more or less impossible to have a good game during a battering.

Why have you conveniently chosen to ignore Robson’s other trophies?

I don't really count the smaller trophies. I also wouldn't count Bruno's EFL trophy as an argument for him being a legend.

 

[Pughnichi]

Bruno a Legend…this has to be a wind up right.

 

[El Jefe]

I love Rooney, but he was never a creative player. And like I said: it's easier for goalkeepers and goal scorers to leave a battering with their heads held high, because you can still nick a goal or save shots under these circumstances. For the rest of the players on the pitch it's more or less impossible to have a good game during a battering.



I don't really count the smaller trophies. I also wouldn't count Bruno's EFL trophy as an argument for him being a legend.

Christ. Rooney not a creative player and not counting Robson’s non PL trophies.

You are doing a good job of sounding like you don’t know what you’re on about.

 

[Idxomer]

Christ. Rooney not a creative player and not counting Robson’s non PL trophies.

You are doing a good job of sounding like you don’t know what you’re on about.

Considering 3 FA Cups and one UEFA Cup as small trophies is just ignorance, especially in the 80s and 90s.

 

[Scandi Red]

Christ. Rooney not a creative player and not counting Robson’s non PL trophies.

Rooney was a great all-rounder and a great goal scorer. World class at his peak. But creative in the same vein as Silva, Özil, De Bruyne or Bruno? No, I don't see it.

We clearly have different metrics and that's OK. I don't value minor trophies as much as you, that's all.

 

[Rossa]

Now there's a post worth reading. Cool, calm and collected!
Obviously going on the overall trend on here he's nowhere near legendary status, which myself I don't agree on.
Everyone entitled to their own opinions but some of the reactions ????

I really don't understand the animosity towards Bruno. Nobody in the team, and only two in the league, works harder than him. He has genuine passion for football and the club. He creates a ton of chances, and he contributes both ends of the pitch. For some, he may not have the most likeable personality, but I'm not sure I agree to join that bandwagon. He has never spoken ill of the club; quite the contrary, he appears genuine in his love for the club, and he actually cares. Sure, he is frustrated and he has a body language far removed from the icy north.

 

[Rossa]

(I consider ALL of the below to be United legends, but I've split them into two groups. The second group consists of players who I have experienced people disagreeing with me on multiple times. So don't shoot the messenger! )

More or less undisputed United legends
Edwards, Charlton, Law, Best, Robson, Schmeichel, Giggs, Scholes, G.Neville, Irwin, Keane, Cantona, Cole, Stam, Rio, Vidic, Rooney

Seems to be up for debate
Beckham, Solskjær*, Evra, Park, Carrick, De Gea, Ronaldo**

* his reputation (unfairly) took a blow after his managerial stint
** (rightfully) fell down after his second stint

The only thing these all have in common are Premier League/English First Division trophies. Some are there primarily because of their hard work, others for their x factor. Some were at the club for a long time, others for just 3 years.

There are multiple players on this list that Bruno is more talented than. There are multiple players on this list that Bruno will have stuck around for longer than this summer. And in terms of hard work and effort, Bruno does in no way look out of place. The only way to exclude Bruno (provided that you agree on the second group as well) is if you consider winning the PL a necessity in order to be considered a legend. Personally I disagree with this distinction so regardless of happens in the upcoming years Bruno has already done enough to warrant a spot in that second group.

Undisputed legends Beckham, for multiple reasons, and Evra who definitely deserves to be in there. A vital part of one of our best teams of all time. Absolutely brilliant player at his best, but legends are also made outside the pitch, and he's a Red Devil through and through - and he's fun!

Up for debate, VDS should be in that list.I think this is where Bruno is currently at. He probably needs to lead us to glory either in Europe or in the league to be considered a legend. The list probably deserves to be longer.

One may compare him to Gerrard in not winning the league, but Gerrard has CL to boost his reputation. As for the PL, again, Gerrard is one of the biggest Pool legends, and he never won it...

I think Bruno is worthy of a discussion, but he arguably needs to lead his team to a major trophy one way or another and be instrumental in obtaining that.