What is he supposed to do at a club like Athletico, go toe to toe with Barca and Real? Or be pragmatic and try to achieve success in a different way, which he has. I'd like to see what he could do at a big club.
Will Jose be sacked if he is going to do LVG 2015-16 and finish outside top 4?
- Thread starter deafepl
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
You should stop saying then. In terms of performances Dortmund were doing well but he had problems with the board after the bus incident.
Why on earth would psg pay a big fee for a manager who has just failed to get top 4?
Aside from the fact, that I'm not convinced with him, yes I believe we would have trouble convincing Poch to come here.Pochettino wouldn't leave Spurs for United?
Just can't get around this two brilliant posts. Mind-boggling.
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Top 4 is a minimum. Anything lower than third is a disappointment from a fan perspective but probably progress from a clubs perspective. Lower than that and he's toast at the end of the season.
From a personal viewpoint I'd like to see him gone at the end of the season anyway. I don't like him, I'll be honest. I don't think he is mature enough to manage this club simply because I don't think he has demonstrated an ability to put the club first above his own vanity. He is selfish and can't invest for the future and rebuild in the right way simply because what he wants is immediate success for himself.
Also, whilst Pep is managing in the same league, he is unable to focus on his own remit. I think Pep will always be a distraction for Jose. They are very similar managers (obviously not in style) in that they take over at clubs where success is only a few tweaks and signings away and money is seemingly unlimited. I accept Pep has taken city to another level and in that regard he has done something Jose has not been able to do. He had taken on a more difficult project then he has in the past and is in the process of smashing it.
From a personal viewpoint I'd like to see him gone at the end of the season anyway. I don't like him, I'll be honest. I don't think he is mature enough to manage this club simply because I don't think he has demonstrated an ability to put the club first above his own vanity. He is selfish and can't invest for the future and rebuild in the right way simply because what he wants is immediate success for himself.
Also, whilst Pep is managing in the same league, he is unable to focus on his own remit. I think Pep will always be a distraction for Jose. They are very similar managers (obviously not in style) in that they take over at clubs where success is only a few tweaks and signings away and money is seemingly unlimited. I accept Pep has taken city to another level and in that regard he has done something Jose has not been able to do. He had taken on a more difficult project then he has in the past and is in the process of smashing it.
I think he would come in a flash, even now if the offer was made. Tottenham have a good team, and are building a new stadium, but they are nothing compared to us.
He'll struggle to keep Kane for next season, whereas he can build a lasting team with us. The conflict of interest woud be if Real or Barca came knocking for him.
As for being convinced, we can no longer being convinced about anyone. If people demand instant success, we can only try people out until it clicks.
Yeah, I do agree about the part not being convinced with anyone, it's a moot point from my side. I'm just trying to see it from his perspective. He will get a shot at a big club eventually, it's pretty certain. So, I'm not sure he would fancy this particular challenge seeing the struggles of those before him.
Depressing thread based on an unlikely what-if scenario.
Ancelotti doesn't have any job. Giggsy should start coaching somewhere or be at our youth. The problem are players - they aren't world class.
Looking at our depressing performances over the last 10 odd games i would suggest that it is not that far fetched.
Pretty much.
I'd take Jose over Ancelotti every time.
One way or the other he will go if we win nothing and finish outside the top 4. He's never planned to be around for long anyroad. Living out of an hotel instead of buying or renting a property. His wife doesnt even live there with him. We were told in the press this has been his dream job. Its slowly turning into a nightmare
Ibra scored 28 goals in all competitions last season before his terrible injury. But he plays for himself and could on many occasions put other players in to score but didn't. Pogba needs to play in a 3 man midfield and allowed the freedom to roam like he was at Juventus. You don't BUILD for one season, you have to think of the future and form a balanced team.
I'm firmly in the Jose camp since pre-appointment but if we fail to reach top 4 that is a sackable offense imo. Especially given that he's had enough time and money right now to challenge given how good he is.
What is your point? That's what I said. Zlatan injury changed the whole plan. And agree to disagree on Pogba is fixed in a role. Zlatan may play for himself, but he has ability to draw CBS toward him better and open space for others. We had plenty of chance for other to score last season. They failed themselves.
Sure, the last performances are disappointing but a fan should be rather optimistic when it comes to football.
Let's see what will happen at the end!
He absolutely should be sacked if we don't get champions league next season. Add in the boring style of play and how much he has spent it's a no-brainer. He should have spent the Lindelöf money on Perisic. We already had decent centre backs + Tuanzebe and Timbo if needed. Perisic would have added some unpredictability to our stale, predictable attacking play.
If he does go we need a big change in our next approach. If we hired a young exciting manager like (like we should have instead of the quick fix) then we need to be able to give him time and backing whether he finishes top 4 or not.
To be totally clear, if we were playing like Liverpool right now i would be totally behind the manager. Spurs are a selling club and are going to find it hard to ever compete, but same if we were playing and building like spurs are trying to do
Edit. The most.important change we need to make it we miss out on top 4 again is the level above manager. Those people aren't doing well it has been shown over a 5 season s
To be totally clear, if we were playing like Liverpool right now i would be totally behind the manager. Spurs are a selling club and are going to find it hard to ever compete, but same if we were playing and building like spurs are trying to do
Edit. The most.important change we need to make it we miss out on top 4 again is the level above manager. Those people aren't doing well it has been shown over a 5 season s
He didn't actually finish in the top four last season, so two seasons absolutely gets you the sack.
If we finished outside the top 4 I'd sack him without question. That would be no way acceptable. However there needs to be vision from the top as to where we are going. We can't sack Jose and then go and replace him with the biggest name we can find. We should go back to playing the "United way"; attacking and exciting. Find a manager and coach who will bring us that. Bring in a DoF who can give us long-term planning so we don't fall to pieces and have to overhaul the team every time we change manager.
I think he over achieved last season(2 cups) so should get a pass this year even IF we finished outside top 4.
Saying that, I think we will get top 4 unless something catastrophically goes wrong and he has a melt down again.
Saying that, I think we will get top 4 unless something catastrophically goes wrong and he has a melt down again.
I will be surprised if we get top 4 now, & if he does fail, two years in a row to get into top four then he should definitely go.
I don’t think we will finish in the top four as there are four better teams. I can’t see Mourinho being sacked but I think he will walk away either in the summer or during next season.
Big concern is that the club seem clueless in appointing managers and we will just end up with someone who is out of contract and there will be no medium or long term plan.
Big concern is that the club seem clueless in appointing managers and we will just end up with someone who is out of contract and there will be no medium or long term plan.
I'm speaking just and only about the attacking football Ancelotti plays in comparison to Jose, in Madrid Ancelotti looked better then Jose ...
IMO if he doesn't win a game in our next 5, he'll be off already.
I think the majority of fans would be a lot more lenient if we could see where exactly we are headed. I've said this multiple times, but I just can't see what the identity of this team is, or what Jose's overall vision is. We seem to change formations a lot, and that's fine if it's tactical. The one area I thought we had mastered is that we were a defensively resolute team, with strong organisation, but even that aspect seems to have deserted us right now.
With regards to the top 4, anything less than 4th = instant sack. Top 4 warrants a review and context before making a decision.
It's worth mentioning that I think that Jose is more likely to walk than be sacked though. His time at United will be defined as himself vs Pep, and he's losing currently as a title will trump his previous trophies. It probably depends on whether he thinks we can bounce back in the league next season, or do something in Europe now or then. Unfortunately it doesn't seem he cares about the club as much he does himself and his own reputation will come first.
With regards to the top 4, anything less than 4th = instant sack. Top 4 warrants a review and context before making a decision.
It's worth mentioning that I think that Jose is more likely to walk than be sacked though. His time at United will be defined as himself vs Pep, and he's losing currently as a title will trump his previous trophies. It probably depends on whether he thinks we can bounce back in the league next season, or do something in Europe now or then. Unfortunately it doesn't seem he cares about the club as much he does himself and his own reputation will come first.
I don't disagree with it but the variable will always be the players and not the manager in Jose's case. It is a unique case that he is one of the bigger personalities in management that has the ability to control a club as big as United and follow a personality as big as Sir Alex.
At what point do you side with the manager who is trying to manage over the players who have played under a bunch of different managers? Sorry but if there is anyone now in this roster who want's to down tools then they need to be shown the door absolute pronto.
Not playing for a complete dumper like Moyes I absolutely understand. Not playing for an absolute nutjob like LVG and his non adaptive game plans and dreadful man management I completely understand the players taking the piss out of him. But Jose? Sorry enough is enough. He's won as a manager and has the pedigree. Time to bin off the players who think they can hide in the cracks and blame the manager while hanging onto the club like a barnacle.
I find it fascanating that one of the supposed "bigger culprits" for not having the desire and the fire etc. to continue on was Rooney. Now that he has gone the same malaise doesn't seem to be lifted.
I think this tumor runs deep. I have barely any affinity to the guys who were left over from SAF/Moyes/LVG barring the odd player who has looked like they give a shit about the plight of the club no matter what is happening (Fellaini is a great example of this). I know you can't just destroy an entire team overnight, but it will eventually need doing and I think Jose is doing it right by bringing in the cream of the crop before binning off and reinforcing the lower/middling support players.
I'd be very annoyed if we sacked another manager two years into a rebuild project.
If we do we may as well give it to Giggs because there's no one else who can do the job other than Pep.
You wouldn't accept winning the UCL every season?
Id hire David Moyes back if I was guaranteed that.
Lets face it even if it is painfull for Man United fans to hear this but here it comes:
Mourinho is not anymore the same manager he was between 2000 to 2010, ok some good moments with Madrid but at the same time having some of the worst anti football tactics to stop Guardiola's Barcelona.
Lets not even mention his return to England and the amount of talented players who come to his hands and suddenly turn shit.
He isn't even the best portuguese football coach let alone top 5 or top 10 in the world now.
He simply doesn't improve players anymore.
No more players improved performances like Deco, Carvalho, Maniche, Lampard, Terry, Duff, Gallas, Sneijder, Zanetti or Milito, reality is he looks lost in this new stage where football is now.
Watching yesterday United offensive organization vs Southampton was worse than watching Portuguese teams battling to survive relegation playing football, at least they don't have money to buy good players, but United?
The sooner you guys see what is in front of you instead trying to fool yourselves the problem is lack of money, the better, don't offer him a new contract.
He just has 2 options, or he acepts he needs to recycle and adapt to this new stage where football is or he will turn into a reactive version of Wenger in the 21th century.
Anyway, Happy New Year and wish you all a happy New Year regardless your football tastes.
Mourinho is not anymore the same manager he was between 2000 to 2010, ok some good moments with Madrid but at the same time having some of the worst anti football tactics to stop Guardiola's Barcelona.
Lets not even mention his return to England and the amount of talented players who come to his hands and suddenly turn shit.
He isn't even the best portuguese football coach let alone top 5 or top 10 in the world now.
He simply doesn't improve players anymore.
No more players improved performances like Deco, Carvalho, Maniche, Lampard, Terry, Duff, Gallas, Sneijder, Zanetti or Milito, reality is he looks lost in this new stage where football is now.
Watching yesterday United offensive organization vs Southampton was worse than watching Portuguese teams battling to survive relegation playing football, at least they don't have money to buy good players, but United?
The sooner you guys see what is in front of you instead trying to fool yourselves the problem is lack of money, the better, don't offer him a new contract.
He just has 2 options, or he acepts he needs to recycle and adapt to this new stage where football is or he will turn into a reactive version of Wenger in the 21th century.
Anyway, Happy New Year and wish you all a happy New Year regardless your football tastes.
Happy New Year to you too!
Sometimes you can't see the woods for the trees.
Facts of the matter are we are averaging 2 goals a game this season, are doing better than we were last season, coasted the CL qualifying stages, and are in with a shout of finishing second in the Prem, and have a shot at the FA Cup. That is improvement.
It's not Jose's fault City have scored 61 goals and won 19 games. He can't control what they do, they're having a freak season. But he has improved the Utd team following Moyes and LVG. Took a step up last year by winning Europa, and improved again this season, despite a glut of injuries and suspension to key players at key times.
Problem is fickle fans only have a short-term memory. And I tell you what, the atmosphere at Utd games this season has been diabolical as well. Show some damn support guys, especially when the team needs it. It saddens me to sit there hearing nothing but groans and away fans out singing us every damn game. It's like we think we have a right to win every game 10-0.
Facts of the matter are we are averaging 2 goals a game this season, are doing better than we were last season, coasted the CL qualifying stages, and are in with a shout of finishing second in the Prem, and have a shot at the FA Cup. That is improvement.
It's not Jose's fault City have scored 61 goals and won 19 games. He can't control what they do, they're having a freak season. But he has improved the Utd team following Moyes and LVG. Took a step up last year by winning Europa, and improved again this season, despite a glut of injuries and suspension to key players at key times.
Problem is fickle fans only have a short-term memory. And I tell you what, the atmosphere at Utd games this season has been diabolical as well. Show some damn support guys, especially when the team needs it. It saddens me to sit there hearing nothing but groans and away fans out singing us every damn game. It's like we think we have a right to win every game 10-0.
No - shouldn't be sacked. We did play some good football in our start of the season and we will be better in the second half of the season with the return of our injured players.
Only reason why I wanted to sack LVG was because JM was available.
I would let him complete his rebuild. Look where Klopp was when he started his rebuild and look where they are now ( with less money available).He deserves one more window and I think we should be patient . Our problems are far deeper than changing a manager and expecting them to fix it immediately.
Only reason why I wanted to sack LVG was because JM was available.
I would let him complete his rebuild. Look where Klopp was when he started his rebuild and look where they are now ( with less money available).He deserves one more window and I think we should be patient . Our problems are far deeper than changing a manager and expecting them to fix it immediately.
Not if we did it because we did so poorly in the league every season to not even finish in the top 4. I remember when Milan and Liverpool did that. I'd take it the first time but expect to be more competitive in the league moving forward
Is it that unlikely? Given our recent form and the form of Liverpool and Spurs behind us now?
The team needs a kick up the arse, which is Mourinho's job.
Two seasons of 6th and 5th is a sackable offense.
3 draws in a row and its a nightmare. 6 mths without a trophy and it's a nightmare...