Will we see a new approach and purged squad from now on?

[Fortitude]

Posted by @Yorkeontop in the ETH thread:

Manchester United lost 1-0 to Newcastle United on Saturday in what has simply become a trademark of the Erik Ten Hag era. Since the start of last season, United have not won away from home against a “top nine” team in the Premier League.

The numbers get even bleaker when you look at how United have faired over the last two years against the traditional “top six” as well as the clubs that are competing in European competitions this season - a sample that includes the top eight from last season, plus West Ham and Chelsea. United’s shot differential per 90 in those games is -1.7, their non-penalty xG differential -0.49, and their goal differential -0.74. Against all other clubs, those numbers are +4.52, +0.84, and +1.07 respectively.

It’s very much become a case of United could beat the teams they are definitely better than, but any well-organized somewhat talented team is going to give them problems.

It’s not much of a mystery why that is either. United are using the same tactics every single match, tactics that have already been exposed. Yet Erik Ten Hag has refused to change, running back the same concepts week after week hoping for something different - the definition of insanity.

There have been many excuses thrown around this season but ultimately this comes down to one thing. Erik Ten Hag is not putting his players in positions where they can succeed. His principles aren’t working, leading to clear structural issues, and they are not being addressed


https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...-analysis-the-definition-of-insanity#comments

Seems as though some are convinced there’s a mutiny going on where players have corroborated and decided to down tools in a bid to get the manager sacked. On top of that, the system we play is a horror show, rife for better quality players to run or play through at will.

If there are problematic players, do you expect to see them removed from the team now? And further, is there going to be a tactical and personnel adjustment or repetition of what we saw played through with ease in the last outing?

LVG’s response to a hiding was to change how we played. I think he’s important to cite given how wedded to his philosophy he was - even he switched things in response. Is ten Hag willing or capable of doing the same or will we see the same system and players rolled out? This should be the definitive marker to the season, right?

 

[Dec9003]

There's a selection of players (Martial, Rashford, Mctominay, Dalot) that absolutely should be dropped, whether due to lack of ability or lack of effort. If we see a drastically changed team with a new workable philosophy then Ten Hag has a chance. If we see the same players shuffled into different positions like we saw with Rashford there is no hope for him.

 

[Lentwood]

I think it is true that EtHs tactics are leaving us wide-open and exposed and also true that some of the players are not putting in enough effort.

On the one hand, I can partially understand it. It must be demoralising when you are being asked to do something you dont believe in and have no faith in.

You'd like to think that wouldn't stop the players from at least running and fighting...but there will always be those, even in elite level sport, who's response to adversity is to become demoralised and quit.

I'm of the opinion we need a clear-out of six individuals (Dalot, Rashford, Martial, Varane, Sancho, Casemiro) + and a new manager + a new Director of Football.

It's pointless blaming one or two, or changing one or two without the other(s), in my opinion.

 

[Mwooyo]

For me Order remains the same. Get a proper DOF in as soon as possible. DOF should make it clear on what style of play is needed for the club long term and aligns that with manager. Let them work with the manager for one window to get rid of as many players as possible and sign as few replacements as possible that fit the agreed style.

Wait till season end. If the performances do not improve after these changes, then it will be time to fire him....and we should not hesitate if the moment comes. Hire another manager who plays the style we want and make it clear what we want to see. Back the new manager...asses the performances every half season.

Tldr; We must fix the structure behind the manager first, then fix the squad and then lastly, fix the manager if performances remain as they are.

 

[noodlehair]

I think this is just over complicating what's going on.

If you pick a system that doesn't work eventually the players lose confidence and belief in it, and eventually that leads to a lack of motivation.

I doubt there's some over complicated power struggle going on. I just think ETH has made a few big errors with his tactics and squad this season, and then been too stubborn to accept it, and then it's been compounded by injuries....and now he has a set of players whobare low on confidence and have very little reason to believe in what they are being asked to do.

The effort levels from the likes of Martial and Rashford the other night are on them and they should be dropped, because they are supposed to be professionals, but we're 20+ games into a season and even though he's been reduced to using a teenager there, ETH is still insisting on playing with only 1 midfielder. How long do people expect the team to not be affected moral or motivation wise when they are being asked to persist with something that is beyond broken. They can run around more for sure but they still aren't going to be pro active or aggressive because the belief and confidence won't be there to facilitate it.

 

[Yorkeontop]

Posted by @Yorkeontop in the ETH thread:

Manchester United lost 1-0 to Newcastle United on Saturday in what has simply become a trademark of the Erik Ten Hag era. Since the start of last season, United have not won away from home against a “top nine” team in the Premier League.

The numbers get even bleaker when you look at how United have faired over the last two years against the traditional “top six” as well as the clubs that are competing in European competitions this season - a sample that includes the top eight from last season, plus West Ham and Chelsea. United’s shot differential per 90 in those games is -1.7, their non-penalty xG differential -0.49, and their goal differential -0.74. Against all other clubs, those numbers are +4.52, +0.84, and +1.07 respectively.

It’s very much become a case of United could beat the teams they are definitely better than, but any well-organized somewhat talented team is going to give them problems.

It’s not much of a mystery why that is either. United are using the same tactics every single match, tactics that have already been exposed. Yet Erik Ten Hag has refused to change, running back the same concepts week after week hoping for something different - the definition of insanity.

There have been many excuses thrown around this season but ultimately this comes down to one thing. Erik Ten Hag is not putting his players in positions where they can succeed. His principles aren’t working, leading to clear structural issues, and they are not being addressed


https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...-analysis-the-definition-of-insanity#comments

Seems as though some are convinced there’s a mutiny going on where players have corroborated and decided to down tools in a bid to get the manager sacked. On top of that, the system we play is a horror show, rife for better quality players to run or play through at will.

If there are problematic players, do you expect to see them removed from the team now? And further, is there going to be a tactical and personnel adjustment or repetition of what we saw played through with ease in the last outing?

LVG’s response to a hiding was to change how we played. I think he’s important to cite given how wedded to his philosophy he was - even he switched things in response. Is ten Hag willing or capable of doing the same or will we see the same system and players rolled out? This should be the definitive marker to the season, right?

Does anybody know of a team that does what we're trying to do well?

 

[Fortitude]

I think this is just over complicating what's going on.

If you pick a system that doesn't work eventually the players lose confidence and belief in it, and eventually that leads to a lack of motivation.

I doubt there's some over complicated power struggle going on. I just think ETH has made a few big errors with his tactics and squad this season, and then been too stubborn to accept it, and then it's been compounded by injuries....and now he has a set of players whobare low on confidence and have very little reason to believe in what they are being asked to do.

The effort levels from the likes of Martial and Rashford the other night are on them and they should be dropped, because they are supposed to be professionals, but we're 20+ games into a season and even though he's been reduced to using a teenager there, ETH is still insisting on playing with only 1 midfielder. How long do people expect the team to not be affected moral or motivation wise when they are being asked to persist with something that is beyond broken. They can run around more for sure but they still aren't going to be pro active or aggressive because the belief and confidence won't be there to facilitate it.

But do you reckon he’ll actually try something different tonight?

 

[noodlehair]

But do you reckon he’ll actually try something different tonight?

No. Unless by different you mean drop Martial and maybe have Shaw at left back.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

He had numerous chances to change the approach and purge the squad and he didn't do it, I believe he never will.

 

[SER19]

I find the idea of players who have been so grossly unsuccesful over and over again, deciding that they dont buy into something so easily, absolutely crazy. They are literally paid to perform the way the manager sets them up. Thats it. And whatever you think of ten hag, he absolutely doesnt set rashford up to perform the way he did at the weekend. Martial too. Disheartened and unmotivated? Thats what your obscene contract is for.

The excuses that get made for players is just phenomenal. Fair enough if we were looking at a team full of guys with medals to back themselves up. Rashford cant even get in the England team consistently! Martial doesnt even register on a french managers radar. We couldn't give some of these guys away.

So yeah, discipline discipline discipline and a purge, im all for it. Ive said it already but give me the players ten hag has signed and the ones he clearly likes any day: Onana, Casemiro, Martinez, Shaw, Fernandes, Antony, Hojlund, Mount. Tell me any of those wont bother their arse to run. Will watch a ball come from the sky and admire an opponent winning it. They make up far to small a portion of the squad and the likes of sancho, martial, rashford will be absolutely no loss. Name a player ten hag has booted that has proven him wrong? None.

 

[royboy16]

Id prefer we tried something different and let him gut the squad than just replacing another yet manager again and in season two we are back to square one.

 

[11101]

The managers preferred system and the players preferred system do not match. Who do you side with? The question you have to ask is whether you believe these players can be top players in any system. I don't.

I'd rather let ETH slowly acquire players who can fit his system than let the players force out another manager. They will never be able to play under any other system or manager either because they're simply not good enough.

 

[Fortitude]

The managers preferred system and the players preferred system do not match. Who do you side with? The question you have to ask is whether you believe these players can be top players in any system. I don't.

I'd rather let ETH slowly acquire players who can fit his system than let the players force out another manager. They will never be able to play under any other system or manager either because they're simply not good enough.

But they got to two cup finals and finished third in the league last season?

I don't side with the players, but I don't know how a coach can be sided with either if he is incapable of change or awareness of where the problems with the football he's currently playing lay.

If he goes out tonight with a different approach, you can generate more good will than if he doesn't. At least he's trying to do something to get himself out of this rot.

 

[stefan92]

The managers preferred system and the players preferred system do not match. Who do you side with? The question you have to ask is whether you believe these players can be top players in any system. I don't.

I'd rather let ETH slowly acquire players who can fit his system than let the players force out another manager. They will never be able to play under any other system or manager either because they're simply not good enough.

There is another question to be asked: Will EtH's system ever work? And I don't believe that either. But I do believe that some players at least could and should perform better in a different system.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I find the idea of players who have been so grossly unsuccesful over and over again, deciding that they dont buy into something so easily, absolutely crazy. They are literally paid to perform the way the manager sets them up. Thats it. And whatever you think of ten hag, he absolutely doesnt set rashford up to perform the way he did at the weekend. Martial too. Disheartened and unmotivated? Thats what your obscene contract is for.

The excuses that get made for players is just phenomenal. Fair enough if we were looking at a team full of guys with medals to back themselves up. Rashford cant even get in the England team consistently! Martial doesnt even register on a french managers radar. We couldn't give some of these guys away.

So yeah, discipline discipline discipline and a purge, im all for it. Ive said it already but give me the players ten hag has signed and the ones he clearly likes any day: Onana, Casemiro, Martinez, Shaw, Fernandes, Antony, Hojlund, Mount. Tell me any of those wont bother their arse to run. Will watch a ball come from the sky and admire an opponent winning it. They make up far to small a portion of the squad and the likes of sancho, martial, rashford will be absolutely no loss. Name a player ten hag has booted that has proven him wrong? None.

It's not that simple. If the tactical set-up is poor or the players aren't a good fit for it, they're not magically going to start playing well.

Anyway, to answer the question, no I don't think anything will change in terms of approach. ETH is stubborn to a fault, and this is the hill he will choose to die on.

 

[gerdm07]

He has to drop Rashford today or ETH loses so much credibility. He also needs to see by now that McT, even though he can score here and there, is not a quality midfielder. I would like to see a midfield of Mainoo, Amrabat and Bruno today. That midfield has the quality to beat a good press.

Lastly, if a player is poor in the first half, sub him at half time and it doesn't matter the player.

 

[hobbers]

Rashford is mates with the outcast, based on Saturday has completely given up on football, doesnt even care enough to pretend to put effort in, and is probably behind at least some of the briefings against the manager, either directly or via Sancho.

If ETH picks him now it's a message that he has given up on the United job.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

But they got to two cup finals and finished third in the league last season?

I don't side with the players, but I don't know how a coach can be sided with either if he is incapable of change or awareness of where the problems with the football he's currently playing lay.

If he goes out tonight with a different approach, you can generate more good will than if he doesn't. At least he's trying to do something to get himself out of this rot.

I don't think we'll see any meaningful changes until Casemiro gets back from injury and at least one of Mainoo and Amrabat settles into the first team. After switching Fred for Mount, he can't go back to what he was doing last season because he'll be entirely dependent on Eriksen staying fit and playing every single game. That is, if we want to revert to last season's tactics and try to crawl toward the finishing line to then regroup and rethink things over in the summer. Other than that, there are risks he could take, but the team is such a bad shape right now that it could all backfire badly and demolish any moral left. Plus, people scream change this and change that, but i don't think there are many players left who will listen to him at this point and show the faith in him that is required. It looks like the final days of both Solskjaer and Mourinho, and we all know how this is going to end. It's just a matter of when.

 

[SER19]

It's not that simple. If the tactical set-up is poor or the players aren't a good fit for it, they're not magically going to start playing well.

Anyway, to answer the question, no I don't think anything will change in terms of approach. ETH is stubborn to a fault, and this is the hill he will choose to die on.

I dont think anybody can question that we looked better coached for extended spells last season. This season has been so poor and Im inclined to give a little leeway due to the extent of injuries for the first few months. But theres a pretence going on, that we didnt have an identifiable style last season. We absolutely did and when we were on form we were good to watch again for the first time in a long time. Players seemed to learn from their brentford debacle (surely this was too early in ten hags reign to blame him for! what were they outrun by, 13 kilometres? in the second game of the season. Surely surely they werent so unmotivated by tactics then. What was the excuse that weekend? Oh yes, ronaldo.) Its absolutely clear that too many of these players simply cannot maintain their hunger and committment for prolonged spells no matter who the manager is.

Brutal underperformers like AWB and Rashford excelled under ten hag last season. The rule seems to be that he gets the blame when theyre rubbish, but not the credit when theyre good. Is he responsible for crushing rashford, just after overseeing by far his best ever season at united?

No, none of it adds up to anything other than players that just are not elite. Imagine guys who win CLs and just want to keep going for more and more and more. Our players arent untalented, but I get absolutely no sense whatsoever that Rashford for example, particularly wants to win a champions league. What difference does it make to him if he does or not? Martial too. Compare that to a talent like bale who played for spurs like a demented man and insisted on madrid because he knew what he wanted to achieve. Okay he burned out early but christ he'd earned it.

If every manager is saying something, are they all wrong?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I dont think anybody can question that we looked better coached for extended spells last season. This season has been so poor and Im inclined to give a little leeway due to the extent of injuries for the first few months. But theres a pretence going on, that we didnt have an identifiable style last season. We absolutely did and when we were on form we were good to watch again for the first time in a long time. Players seemed to learn from their brentford debacle (surely this was too early in ten hags reign to blame him for! what were they outrun by, 13 kilometres? in the second game of the season. Surely surely they werent so unmotivated by tactics then. What was the excuse that weekend? Oh yes, ronaldo.) Its absolutely clear that too many of these players simply cannot maintain their hunger and committment for prolonged spells no matter who the manager is.

Brutal underperformers like AWB and Rashford excelled under ten hag last season. The rule seems to be that he gets the blame when theyre rubbish, but not the credit when theyre good. Is he responsible for crushing rashford, just after overseeing by far his best ever season at united?

No, none of it adds up to anything other than players that just are not elite. Imagine guys who win CLs and just want to keep going for more and more and more. Our players arent untalented, but I get absolutely no sense whatsoever that Rashford for example, particularly wants to win a champions league. What difference does it make to him if he does or not? Martial too. Compare that to a talent like bale who played for spurs like a demented man and insisted on madrid because he knew what he wanted to achieve. Okay he burned out early but christ he'd earned it.

If every manager is saying something, are they all wrong?

I agree on Martial and Rashford. But guess what? That's another problem the manager created for himself when he decided to give Martial a clean slate and when he refuses to drop Rashford for his poor performances and work rate.

My broader point was that I don't believe there's some systematic lack of effort or "downing tools" going on from a large part of the squad. It's more a combination of poor tactical set-ups and our players not being as good as many of us think they are.

 

[SER19]

I agree on Martial and Rashford. But guess what? That's another problem the manager created for himself when he decided to give Martial a clean slate and when he refuses to drop Rashford for his poor performances and work rate.

My broader point was that I don't believe there's some systematic lack of effort or "downing tools" going on from a large part of the squad. It's more a combination of poor tactical set-ups and our players not being as good as many of us think they are.

I fully agree with you on this. Even the average fan can do a basic eye test and see who is just not cutting it effort wise. Weve all watched football long enough, and at United, weve watched succesful players long enough, to know. You can see plenty of players giving their all. Some arent good enough but cant be faulted for effort. But 2 players even, is 20% of your outfield, and at this level, against hard working teams that weakness will be battered over and over again. Newcastle for example, took to our right wing like kids loving a game of football at school. It was that simple. I agree rashford should have been dropped, but again, where ten hag is concerned, he got Hojlund, later than we'd like and he's struggled with injuries. What's he going to do, drop martial and loan weghorst again? People are refusing to accept that a team in transition will have to work with players either not good enough or with poor attitudes until enough time has past to rebuild. 2 summer windows isnt enough for most teams, and certainly not for a united team thats been mismanaged for a decade.

 

[11101]

But they got to two cup finals and finished third in the league last season?

I don't side with the players, but I don't know how a coach can be sided with either if he is incapable of change or awareness of where the problems with the football he's currently playing lay.

If he goes out tonight with a different approach, you can generate more good will than if he doesn't. At least he's trying to do something to get himself out of this rot.

Many of the great managers in the game refuse to change their ways. Pep and Klopp certainly dont/can't. Klopp had the time, Pep had the budget (and a great squad to start with). I don't think ETH should either. We hired him because he had Ajax playing a certain way and we want to play the same way. It would be going against that for him to resort to some other style of football.

It's time we realised a core group of our players will never be good enough. They need to go ahead of another manager.

 

[honirelandboy]

I fully agree with you on this. Even the average fan can do a basic eye test and see who is just not cutting it effort wise. Weve all watched football long enough, and at United, weve watched succesful players long enough, to know. You can see plenty of players giving their all. Some arent good enough but cant be faulted for effort. But 2 players even, is 20% of your outfield, and at this level, against hard working teams that weakness will be battered over and over again. Newcastle for example, took to our right wing like kids loving a game of football at school. It was that simple. I agree rashford should have been dropped, but again, where ten hag is concerned, he got Hojlund, later than we'd like and he's struggled with injuries. What's he going to do, drop martial and loan weghorst again? People are refusing to accept that a team in transition will have to work with players either not good enough or with poor attitudes until enough time has past to rebuild. 2 summer windows isnt enough for most teams, and certainly not for a united team thats been mismanaged for a decade.

Ten Hags signings have been awful, Mount, Anthony, Casemiro (in decline), Onana. Rashford signs a bumber new deal under Ten Hag along with Dalot when its clear these players need to move on.
Has had two transfer windows and our midfield is still as shite as ever. Liverpool fixed there midfield basically in one transfer window with the signings of McAlister, Szoboszlai and Gravenbach and got rid of the under par players who could no longer cut it in one transfer window. Not saying there midfield is perfect but they have a good balance now. Arsenal sign Rice as well and we get Casemiro basically sums up with what's wrong with the football club at the moment.

Ten Hag could of and should of done much better in the last two transfer windows and 400 million should of signing us three to four world class players who would be automatic starters for the club. Instead we have the likes of Anthony, Mount, Onana, Casemiro now who add nothing to the team and not even first choice. I might be too hard on Casemeiro but anyone can see he is in major decline and had an excellent season last season. I wouldn't put one United player in the Arsenal or City starting 11, that shows how bad we have become.

 

[Offside]

Many of the great managers in the game refuse to change their ways. Pep and Klopp certainly dont/can't. Klopp had the time, Pep had the budget (and a great squad to start with). I don't think ETH should either. We hired him because he had Ajax playing a certain way and we want to play the same way. It would be going against that for him to resort to some other style of football.

It's time we realised a core group of our players will never be good enough. They need to go ahead of another manager.

The issue with United is we have players who are good enough for spells to get top 4 but will never be good enough to win the league. Fernandes, Rashford etc. These players are signed/kept because that is the ultimate aim.

We have the spending power to attract the Cavani’s / Casemiros of this world and get top 4 again, but they soon go to shite and need replacing, not the basis of a title winning team.

The alternative would be to buy the best young talent - Bellingham / Haaland, but these players only to the absolute top dogs and we need to build that up again.

But to build up, we’d need to create standards of recruitment the same way Liverpool did and Arsenal are starting to. We don’t do that though, as it takes a lot of time and potentially dicking around in 8th for a couple of years. We have never finished that low like Arsenal and Liverpool have in recent years, we haven’t even had 1 season at the top 4 but we also haven’t had 1 title challenge. We always continue to do enough just to get the top 4 and let the cycle repeat.

 

[sparx99]

I fully agree with you on this. Even the average fan can do a basic eye test and see who is just not cutting it effort wise. Weve all watched football long enough, and at United, weve watched succesful players long enough, to know. You can see plenty of players giving their all. Some arent good enough but cant be faulted for effort. But 2 players even, is 20% of your outfield, and at this level, against hard working teams that weakness will be battered over and over again. Newcastle for example, took to our right wing like kids loving a game of football at school. It was that simple. I agree rashford should have been dropped, but again, where ten hag is concerned, he got Hojlund, later than we'd like and he's struggled with injuries. What's he going to do, drop martial and loan weghorst again? People are refusing to accept that a team in transition will have to work with players either not good enough or with poor attitudes until enough time has past to rebuild. 2 summer windows isnt enough for most teams, and certainly not for a united team thats been mismanaged for a decade.

You can't have any passengers essentially.

I'll be honest though I find this period of the post-Fergie years the most perplexing. Each managerial appointment from Moyes through to Rangnick felt flawed for one reason or another. Whether they weren't good enough or past their best or just ill-suited to our club. With ETH it was genuinely the first time that I thought they got the appointment spot on.

Given that and the sheer scale of the rebuild we needed, I thought we would need several years before we would see anything approaching competing at the top. Last year felt like a surprising overachievement in truth even with the hammerings we took. 3rd, a cup, FA cup final was genuinely a good start. However, the football has been unconvincing throughout. The good performances are pretty rare and there aren't many games where I can see we clearly deserved the win. This season its probably only Palace in the Carabao Cup, Forest and Everton.

So where does that leave us? Well, the job looks as big as I first thought it would be but my confidence in ETH is definitely wavering. Even with all the struggles and injuries and off-field drama the on-field performances aren't good enough. Even with the personnel we have and the flaws in the squad the performances aren't good enough. Other teams lower down the league play more convincing football with worse players. Yet, we often end up further up the table than Brighton etc.

I'm fairly convinced that a typical British coach or whoever could come in and go back to basics and we'd play better initially but is there a ceiling on that style of play (as we saw with Ole).
Is it that ETH is trying to implement complex tactics and we are failing through the learning curve? Or has he tried to mould tactics around Bruno and Rashford and that's a fool's errand? Our attacking play doesn't seem to produce enough chances through the tactics themselves. Our defence is chaos against any half-decent team.

Mostly, I find it hard to see what we are attempting to do on the pitch.

 

[Smores]

Many of the great managers in the game refuse to change their ways. Pep and Klopp certainly dont/can't. Klopp had the time, Pep had the budget (and a great squad to start with). I don't think ETH should either. We hired him because he had Ajax playing a certain way and we want to play the same way. It would be going against that for him to resort to some other style of football.

It's time we realised a core group of our players will never be good enough. They need to go ahead of another manager.

What makes you think he's trying to make us play like Ajax did because none of the evidence points to that.

This idiotic system of no midfield will not work. I'd put money on the players complaining about it to him and he's probably fallen out with some as a result. To me it seems like he's now stubbornly sticking to it because he won't admit defeat.

 

[Tyrion]

Id prefer we tried something different and let him gut the squad than just replacing another yet manager again and in season two we are back to square one.

Agreed. Our current squad is disgraceful barring a handful of exceptions. Barring Hjolund, Bruno, Garnacho and Martinez, I wouldn't care if any of our players were sacked and I'd actively cheer the departure of several of them more than I would a 95th minute winner.

 

[Tyrion]

I'd put money on the players complaining about it to him and he's probably fallen out with some as a result. To me it seems like he's now stubbornly sticking to it because he won't admit defeat.

Did the same thing happen with Mourinho, Ole and Ragnick? Because our squad has reacted the same way to all 3 (by doing sweet f all) that they've done with ten Haag.

 

[Cerberus]

This squad purge thing is a massive red herring. You can purge 70% of this squad and I'm willing to bet my life that results under ETH will be roughly the same. His tactics and man management are simply not good enough and his unearned disciplinarian attitude towards his players means he's utterly doomed. People see Pep act like that and applause when ETH tries to do the same but the thing is that Pep had total authority and respect the moment he set foot at City due to his exhaustive list of accomplishments. City players follow Pep's strict guidelines because they know it's guaranteed to get them to success. From the United players' point-of-view, there's simply no reason to keep trusting Erik when they can clearly see he has no idea what he's doing ("We'll never play like Ajax here") and his claim to fame are a couple of Dutch league titles and capitulating to Spurs in the CL semi-final.

 

[Tyrion]

This squad purge thing is a massive red herring. You can purge 70% of this squad and I'm willing to bet my life that results under ETH will be roughly the same. His tactics and man management are simply not good enough and his unearned disciplinarian attitude towards his players means he's utterly doomed. People see Pep act like that and applause when ETH tries to do the same but the thing is that Pep had total authority and respect the moment he set foot at City due to his exhaustive list of accomplishments. City players follow Pep's strict guidelines because they know it's guaranteed to get them to success. From the United players' point-of-view, there's simply no reason to keep trusting Erik when they can clearly see he has no idea what he's doing ("We'll never play like Ajax here") and his claim to fame are a couple of Dutch league titles and capitulating to Spurs in the CL semi-final.

Didn't Jose have a long list of accomplishments? They still did f**k all

 

[Cerberus]

Didn't Jose have a long list of accomplishments? They still did f**k all

Kind of funny you say that when our most successful period after SAF was under Mourinho. Also, Mourinho was definitely respected by our players at least initially - its just that his combative personality became his own undoing and once he entered his third season and it was obvious we weren't getting anywhere the players just kind of gave up, but in his first and second season I wouldn't say lack of effort was the main cause of concern.

 

[Tyrion]

Kind of funny you say that when our most successful period after SAF was under Mourinho. Also, Mourinho was definitely respected by our players at least initially - its just that his combative personality became his own undoing and once he entered his third season and it was obvious we weren't getting anywhere the players just kind of gave up, but in his first and second season I wouldn't say lack of effort was the main cause of concern.

We won 2 trophies under him and then were as bad as we'd been before. If an intial improvement is proof they respected him, then our improvement last year under EtH qualifies as well.

Its the same every time. Initial improvement followed by slacking off. Replacing managers at this point is like hoping that plugging your TV into a different socket will fix its broken screen.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We won 2 trophies under him and then were as bad as we'd been before.

Nar, we won 2 trophies and followed that up with BY FAR our best PL season post SAF.

Then when he was rewarded for that 80+ pt finish with Fred & Dalot, to make up 19 pts on City, his lost his mind and went nuclear.

 

[Lee565]

Do we really not have any have decent striker in our u21 or u18 team to be given a try, even if it doesn't work out, it would at the very least scare the likes of martial and rashford seeing someone new take their place even if temporarily

 

[croadyman]

I am hoping that the new INEOS structure allow him to fully purge the squad. The leeches never gave him free reign to do that

 

[elmo]

This squad purge thing is a massive red herring. You can purge 70% of this squad and I'm willing to bet my life that results under ETH will be roughly the same. His tactics and man management are simply not good enough and his unearned disciplinarian attitude towards his players means he's utterly doomed. People see Pep act like that and applause when ETH tries to do the same but the thing is that Pep had total authority and respect the moment he set foot at City due to his exhaustive list of accomplishments. City players follow Pep's strict guidelines because they know it's guaranteed to get them to success. From the United players' point-of-view, there's simply no reason to keep trusting Erik when they can clearly see he has no idea what he's doing ("We'll never play like Ajax here") and his claim to fame are a couple of Dutch league titles and capitulating to Spurs in the CL semi-final.

Pep’s only coaching achievement when he started at Barcelona was with their B team.
You’re speaking a lot of crap to excuse the players shitty attitude.

 

[Insanity]

Martial, Sancho, AWB, Lindelof, Maguire, McTominay, de Meek and Varane all need to go either in January or the summer.

Hopefully, Martial, Varane, Sancho and de Meek will be shown the door in January and we'll get a new CB and a striker.

Rest need to be sold in the summer and proper replacements should be brought in. We'd need at least another CB, RB, LB & CM. A RW too if Amad doesn't show he can cut it.

 

[Thiagoal]

Martial, Sancho, AWB, Lindelof, Maguire, McTominay, de Meek and Varane all need to go either in January or the summer.

Hopefully, Martial, Varane, Sancho and de Meek will be shown the door in January and we'll get a new CB and a striker.

Rest need to be sold in the summer and proper replacements should be brought in. We'd need at least another CB, RB, LB & CM. A RW too if Amad doesn't show he can cut it.

You do realise McT and Maguire are currently our best performing players??

 

[Cerberus]

Pep’s only coaching achievement when he started at Barcelona was with their B team.
You’re speaking a lot of crap to excuse the players shitty attitude.

When did I discuss his coaching at Barcelona? I was specifically referring to his well-known cutthroat approach at City. I don't believe Pep could have arrived at City and started alienating players like Yaya Toure and Joe Hart without triggering a squad revolt if he wasn't one of the most successful managers in the world. It's pretty simple to conclude that players are going to be willing to fight for you when they believe in you and their effort will be lacking when they don't.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund, Pellestri need to start every game. At least they fecking try consistently.