Would Ole have succeeded with a proper football structure?

[sullydnl]

Of course not.

Our poor structure means top level managers level will fail here. But fixing it doesn't mean managers who aren't good enough for the top level will succeed. And Solskjaer has shown nothing in his career to suggest he's a top level manager.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

A proper footballing structure wouldn't have hired a molde manager in the first place.

He was too limited to be hired by any proper big club.

 

[Marwood]

It's amazing that your average fan can see such a glaring hole and the people at the club can't see how to fix it. It's been a huge problem for over 10 years, even before SAF retired the midfield was being held together by Carrick.

It's hard to understand what goes on. He plays his football in front of Scholes, Keane, Carrick but thinks Fred and McTominay are good enough.

He needs a right winger but knowingly signs a guy who prefers the left.

A manager shouldn't need somebody above him to tell him this when your average fan knows it.

I can only think the pressure of the job results in rash decisions. Only explanation. The pressure to get results means the manager will grab whoever they can to help, suitable or not.

 

[Brophs]

Of course not.

Our poor structure means top level managers level will fail here. But fixing it doesn't mean managers who aren't good enough for the top level will succeed. And Solskjaer has shown nothing in his career to suggest he's a top level manager.

How quickly they forget.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Maybe

I didn’t get his vision of him saying he wanted to play with a high line with full backs being integral to attacking play, then he goes out and buys slow as feck Maguire and defensively-minded full back AWB for £130m, so he’d have definitely benefited from having someone to set him straight on that.

Solskjaer is someone who you’d let have the keys to the car (so to speak) if the club is efficient and effective, and the team is excellent. I wouldn’t put him in charge when it was everything the opposite of that which it was back in 2018

 

[amolbhatia50k]

No

The only manager we had post SAF to win feck all

 

[R.N7]

The football would still be Cardiff relegating football.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Well, if he managed 2nd with our shambles of a structure, if he had the proper structure behind him, whose to say he wouldn't have gone that one step further.

This is like saying Jose won the Europa league. Whose to say he wouldn’t have won the quadruple with the right structure. Except he was Jose Mourinho a man who wins trophies and not Ole - manager of Molde.

 

[Rood]

The job Ole did is still incredibly underrated on this forum, still remains the only manager to finish top4 twice and mount some kind of challenge for the league. A penalty shootout away from being the undisputed best of the postFergie managers.

Regardless of that debate, it's clear by now that every manager we had would have benefited from a better structure above them.
There really can't be any debate on that at all.

 

[el3mel]

Ole was a poor coach and he shouldn't have been hired to start with. We wasted two years under him. He was never, ever going to lead us anywhere.

 

[bosnian_red]

What is success for Manchester United? It's an important question. Every manager would do better with a better structure. We'd also replace those who aren't right much more quickly and have a smoother transition in between, have our peaks last longer.

Have ANY of the managers we've had been good enough to be successful at United if all else was good? That depends on definition of success. If success is becoming a top club (solidly top 6 in Europe both in results and underlying data/performances), then yes, I would expect any manager to be able to get there with our financial strength. If the success is winning the premier league, then no. I don't think we've had a manager on par with Pep or Klopp, which is mainly due to I don't think one exists out there.

Can have a fluke year, but realistically, since Pep came in the league he's been that far ahead. Klopp is up there, and he managed to build a squad to compete for a few years and win it once, but that's the level. You need to get everything right and be a high 90 point team for multiple years, and even then they only won it once throughout a 5 year span where they were basically a top 3 club in the world. So realistic plans on "when can we win the league again" are usually tied to Pep and Klopp leaving.

 

[troylocker]

Ole did OK 1st season but failed completely in 2nd (1st few months). Do you think a new structure would have prevented his failure?

Even ETH cannot blame the structure, because he did operate under a DOF structure under his rein, and the Club did invest considerable sum per his request.

Ole ended 3rd and 2nd in the prem in his 2 full seasons prior to signing Ronaldo. We don't know what would have happened if the old instamodel hadn't made his return here. We played better and more attractive football in 19/20 and 20/21 than we do now and you could see the players gave their all on the pitch, anyways...

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

It would have helped him massively yes and arguably with the right recruitment he could have gone further. Of course people on here will pretend he was useless with zero tactics which wasn’t the case and his man management skills were good. This biggest change needed at this club is on recruitment. We have simply signed the wrong players year after year and that isn’t on the manager.

 

[astracrazy]

It would have meant he wouldn't have got the job in the first place. No one working in a proper footballing structure would have even closely considered him qualified for the job.

 

[gerdm07]

I thought Ole was doing a good enough job. I had hopes we were going to see significant improvement his last season. Then we signed Ronaldo and my hopes were dashed. Just another poor transfer for the club.

 

[Robbie Boy]

A proper footballing structure wouldn't have hired a molde manager in the first place.

Or a past it Jose.

 

[sglowrider]

Proper structure meaning, hire the best coaches and tactitians to surround him? Given the man was loath to actually go out and train the players?

Didnt we have Jose and LVG prior to Ole and ETH after?

Unless you mean the hipster's choices of best coaches and tacticians? How here actually are good enough to gauge who the best managers or tacticians are? We have had some pretty big name ones like Jose and LVG. Failed.

An up & coming modern manager. Failing.

Did anyone mention Ange? Would Eddie Howe be on your list? (He's been at Newcastle as long as ETH has been at United. De Zerbi? He wasnt on the top or anyone's list until he went to Brighton.

 

[Rozay]

Ole did OK 1st season but failed completely in 2nd (1st few months). Do you think a new structure would have prevented his failure?

Even ETH cannot blame the structure, because he did operate under a DOF structure under his rein, and the Club did invest considerable sum per his request.

I don’t think you’re referring to his second season here.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Of course not.

Our poor structure means top level managers level will fail here. But fixing it doesn't mean managers who aren't good enough for the top level will succeed. And Solskjaer has shown nothing in his career to suggest he's a top level manager.

Ding ding ding.

People fail to see that a proper footballing structure is one of the elements that we need. A proper structure won't mask over an average managers' deficiencies.

 

[horsechoker]

No

The only manager we had post SAF to win feck all

We haven't had anyone play good football and win trophies since Fergie.

Ten Hag is the closest to doing both but the football has dropped off a cliff since then.

Ole probably had the best football for a period but didn't win anything.

Van Gaal and Mourinho won trophies but served up crap football.

 

[ole@thewheel]

He may have, but as being pointed out he wouldn't been hired if the proper structure would be in place.

In retrospective, he had the right attitude (he was well liked and a club person through and through), decent backroom staff (carrick/mcckena) and even had vision (introduced transition football into the club). What he lacked was pedigree to manage Man Utd, but so did the likes of Pep at Barca and ZIdane at Madrid.

Who knows...

 

[sglowrider]

Of course not.

Our poor structure means top level managers level will fail here. But fixing it doesn't mean managers who aren't good enough for the top level will succeed. And Solskjaer has shown nothing in his career to suggest he's a top level manager.

Can we even define what a proper structure means? How would it be different to what we are having now?

 

[Robbie Boy]

We haven't had anyone play good football and win trophies since Fergie.

Ten Hag is the closest to doing both but the football has dropped off a cliff since then.

Ole probably had the best football for a period but didn't win anything.

Van Gaal and Mourinho won trophies but served up crap football.

Dunno if Ole had the best. It always looked very basic, sloppy and unsustainable. It was fun at times though.

 

[sglowrider]

I don’t think you’re referring to his second season here.

Unless failure is defined as being 2nd in the league? (3rd the season before.)

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

Ole was a great guy and choice to come in as a caretaker manager for that half season. But a club with a proper structure should have been looking to use that half season to get the best available manager for end of season and plan for that. The mistake was Woodward getting giddy and falling for all the 'get the pen and paper out' nonsense. I still love Ole and do respect the job he did at steadying the ship after that toxic Mourinho period.

 

[sglowrider]

Dunno if Ole had the best. It always looked very basic, sloppy and unsustainable. It was fun at times though.

We can have the prettiest football but if we fail to score goals, whats the point?

ETH's football hasn't been pretty since the last few months of last season. And we are barely scoring any goals -5 after 10 games. Embarrassing.

 

[KikiDaKats]

Ole’s downfall was his lack of awareness regarding his own limitations. Every manager has constraints, and they devise a formula to address them. Ole, however, failed to recognize that his style of football required a player like Dan James more than a Sancho or Ronaldo, especially when accommodating Rashford.

While he may not have been considered tactically elite, it was his poor judgment at a critical point that proved detrimental. Players like Bruno were successful within his system, and his team reaped the benefits of that signing. His inability to identify the right type of players needed to enhance his team highlighted his eventual downfall here.

 

[Robbie Boy]

We can have the prettiest football but if we fail to score goals, whats the point?

ETH's football hasn't been pretty since the last few months of last season. And we are barely scoring any goals -5 after 10 games. Embarrassing.

As I said, it was fun at times but never looked remotely sustainable, and it wasn't.

ETH actually had us playing good football for a spell and then it fell to shit. Ole's football was generally quite poor despite a few good spells/results. Some want to romanticise his tenure now and pluck out some results which prove he played good football. In real-time, there was a reason why many were never convinced by him, and the football wasn't very good.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Nope, close thread

 

[stevoc]

Probably not as Ole wasn't good enough, but he probably would have did better.

 

[PSV]

Would have succeeded, but he'd probably be the attacking coach and not the manager.

 

[L1nk]

A proper footballing structure wouldn't have hired a molde manager in the first place.

^ Pretty much this.

The reality is a proper football structure would not have hired David Moyes for starters. A proper football structure would have likely tried many different options before landing on that and even IF they did, I think one of Van Gaal or Mourinho would have been more succesful here before we could even get to Ole.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We haven't had anyone play good football and win trophies since Fergie.

Ten Hag is the closest to doing both but the football has dropped off a cliff since then.

Ole probably had the best football for a period but didn't win anything.

Van Gaal and Mourinho won trophies but served up crap football.

He won nothing for 3 and half years. That puts him below the others. Shocking stuff really.

 

[mu4c_20le]

A proper footballing structure wouldn't have hired a molde manager in the first place.

Agreed. Serious clubs like Real Madrid and Chelsea always hire proven managers will illustrious CVs only. That's why they are so successful.

 

[Leftback99]

'Proper football structure' really means better player recruitment.

Would he have us beating City to titles, highly unlikely. But we'd be a solid top 4 team.

Good player recruitment is more important than any manager.

 

[MackRobinson]

All of our managers would have performed better if it wasn’t for the neglect above, Ole included.

This is the only answer that makes sense if "proper structure" is to be believed to be the real culprit. The rest of these no answers are drivel.

Does every big team in the world have a ‘proper structure’? Genuinely interested to know.

Just wait until Spurs start getting lauded for their proper structure

 

[Robbie Boy]

Agreed. Serious clubs like Real Madrid and Chelsea always hire proven managers will illustrious CVs only. That's why they are so successful.

Chelsea are a serious club

 

[RedSky]

Everyone goes on about how the weak structure of our football club hampers the manager. A proper DOF and structure may have prevented the Ronaldo signing and gotten new midfielders for Ole instead.

In that case his tenure may have turned out differently?

Always felt the only thing Ole really needed was someone with an experienced tactical brain alongside him. He should have employed a third coach alongside Carrick and McKenna.

Let's not forget that we went through long waves of good form with Ole, he had it in him to have the side go unbeaten. The issue was in the very tight games when tactical decisions really mattered, we always ended up second best. The signing of Ronaldo also destroyed the entire team, it was a rough suicidal signing by the club. A huge error.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Chelsea are a serious club

Meh they were alright before Boehly

 

[MackRobinson]

Didnt we have Jose and LVG prior to Ole and ETH after?

Unless you mean the hipster's choices of best coaches and tacticians? How here actually are good enough to gauge who the best managers or tacticians are? We have had some pretty big name ones like Jose and LVG. Failed.

An up & coming modern manager. Failing.

Did anyone mention Ange? Would Eddie Howe be on your list? (He's been at Newcastle as long as ETH has been at United. De Zerbi? He wasnt on the top or anyone's list until he went to Brighton.

This 100%