The question is basically how much stock do you put in a points total. Like I said, points are meaningless in this context.
Would you be happy with finishing 3rd this season but with more points than last season?
- Thread starter horsechoker
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I couldn't care less about the points total, the final standing is what matters. After our window, I expected another fight for top 4, but the team has exceeded my expectations and now I'll be satisfied with a top 3 finish with at most a 7 point gap from first place. What I really want from this season is to translate the consistency we've had over the calendar year into an entire season. The rest will automatically fall into place if we can do that.
I think we'll finish 3rd this season, after how we played early on in the season i,d be very happy with this. It's great to be able to look forward to us playing again.
A cup win would be terrific
Next season will be the big one for us.
A cup win would be terrific
Next season will be the big one for us.
Nope nothing but the PL title will do now. Shouldn't have exceeded expectations Ole.
Actually I'm serious.
Actually I'm serious.
I'd happily take third. We had a huge opportunity last summer to move upwards and instead didn't really strengthen the squad where it was needed (DMF/RWF).
If we finish third again, we can hopefully address those gaps, plus it'll have been another season of Liverpool's squad knackering itself.
If we finish third again, we can hopefully address those gaps, plus it'll have been another season of Liverpool's squad knackering itself.
and think about where we were in august and September, It’s mad that we are even in the conversation... anyone would have taken 2nd back then.
Top four and a trophy and I will be happy.
I think we need to be challenging with about 5-7 games to go for it to progress
Realistically points totals don't really matter, I'd take a 50point season if we won the league.
You can make some comparisons between neighbouring seasons to see progress so if we are 3rd (again) and essentially + 4 points it's not great, especially as the league definitely seems more open this season & we have one of the biggest squads.
You can make some comparisons between neighbouring seasons to see progress so if we are 3rd (again) and essentially + 4 points it's not great, especially as the league definitely seems more open this season & we have one of the biggest squads.
what about getting 3rd?
Absolutely.
I’m all for not lowering expectations, but you must be really entitled to demand for more. Our right-hand side is non-existant.
I’m all for not lowering expectations, but you must be really entitled to demand for more. Our right-hand side is non-existant.
75+ points and I'll be fine
70 to 80 point will win it this season.
Would be a missed chance really.
Would be a missed chance really.
If we’re in a title race, take it to the wire, but fall at the last hurdle and finish up 3rd then that’s all good. That’s progress.
If we’re out of the race in a months time and scrape 3rd, miles away from the top 2, then not so much.
agree with this.
Yes to the question. You'd be mad to dismiss finishing 3rd with 80+ points
Given our points total so far 70 points would mean a big drop off in the second half of the season. We have 37 points with 60 still up for grabs. We should be aiming for 80+ points and see where that takes us.
80 points min is what we should be achieving this season. I said that at the start of the season on here and got slated for it, particularly by the many loons who argued that Chelsea and Spurs would finish above us as they have the better squad......seriously.
80 points would be a decent return, couldnt care less about FA Cup or the other one. League and CL is what it is all about. Contrary to popular belief, you dont need to win either the league cup or FA cup before winning the league or CL.
80 points would be a decent return, couldnt care less about FA Cup or the other one. League and CL is what it is all about. Contrary to popular belief, you dont need to win either the league cup or FA cup before winning the league or CL.
Points don't always tell the whole story, they are a reflection of whole leagues strength, I doubt we'll see anything like the totals posted the past 3-4 seasons so naturally that'll knock on to the chasing pack too
I just want us in the race as long as possible, I think that could be a real good lesson for this squad to feel that pressure late on. If with 3-4 games to go we're suddenly out of it mathematically and we lose the last few games dropping down the table I'd still suggest that's greater progress than finishing comfortably third but never looking like winning it
I just want us in the race as long as possible, I think that could be a real good lesson for this squad to feel that pressure late on. If with 3-4 games to go we're suddenly out of it mathematically and we lose the last few games dropping down the table I'd still suggest that's greater progress than finishing comfortably third but never looking like winning it
No
3rd place but in touching distance of 1st would show great progress.
3rd place miles behind the leaders will show this team still needs major investment to close the gap. But Glazers will be chuffed with 3rd every year so doubt they'd back Ole with a serious transfer fund.
3rd place miles behind the leaders will show this team still needs major investment to close the gap. But Glazers will be chuffed with 3rd every year so doubt they'd back Ole with a serious transfer fund.
After transfer season I thought we will struggle to get top 4.
So if we get 3rd I will be happy and will see this season as successful and big progress.
So if we get 3rd I will be happy and will see this season as successful and big progress.
Not necessarily happy, but this is a likely outcome. Points difference from first place is a better metric.
Progress would be pleasing to me if we finish within 10 points of the winners.
Progress would be pleasing to me if we finish within 10 points of the winners.
Of course. We need another top 4 finish which is nowhere near guaranteed at this point. Too early to be thinking about titles for this team.
80 points and I'd be happy. Big ask this season though. Ole is certainly on the right path, hopefully he can keep this up.
I'm curious though whether the board and Ole don't see this January window as an opportunity given the weakening of the league.
I'm curious though whether the board and Ole don't see this January window as an opportunity given the weakening of the league.
Got to be finishing above the Scousers this season.
Would I be happy? No not at this point, as we gone top of the league while our goalscorer's have been mostly misfiring this season, meaning we have some obvious positive regression coming. However, I would be satisfied as I don't believe changing goals midway through a season via emotions is a smart way to look at football because it just sets you up for disappointment. Our squad before the year had obvious holes that needed improvement, and that hasn't changed just because we've done better than expected in the league. We still need a locked in threat from the right side, mainstay CDM that combines the attributes of the players we rotate in (more mobility than Matic, but better awareness and progressiveness passing wise than McFred), and a potential top CB.
We've done a great job being flexible in covering up for these holes, and our squad does have viable depth at this point that has really helped with the more congested fixture list, but we are still too limited at times against teams that know where our weaknesses are (ie. teams overloading our left-side where we are more threatening, doubling up on Pogba to force Fred/McT to try and create).
We've done a great job being flexible in covering up for these holes, and our squad does have viable depth at this point that has really helped with the more congested fixture list, but we are still too limited at times against teams that know where our weaknesses are (ie. teams overloading our left-side where we are more threatening, doubling up on Pogba to force Fred/McT to try and create).
Considering how unprepared the team was physically back in September, i'd hope the second half of this season is a little better than the first, but matching what we've achieved so far should be the minimum we go for.
Assuming we get the 3 points against Fulham on Wednesday, a repeat of the first half of the season would bring us to the 80 point mark, i'd imagine we'll be somewhere between that and 85 points. Regardless of what City and Liverpool do, this would represent massive progress from last season and would either be our highest or second highest points tally since 2012/13.
Assuming we get the 3 points against Fulham on Wednesday, a repeat of the first half of the season would bring us to the 80 point mark, i'd imagine we'll be somewhere between that and 85 points. Regardless of what City and Liverpool do, this would represent massive progress from last season and would either be our highest or second highest points tally since 2012/13.
These jinxing threads man, LET US DREAM FFS!
If we add ten points then it is a good season regardless. We didn't even improve the first 11. Hopefully that happens this summer
I’d except third if we won the FA Cup and Europa as well as I don’t think just third alone is progress even if we got more points than last season seeing as City have been poor up until recently and Liverpool can’t score along with Van Dijk out for the season.
If we win a trophy or preferably two trophies and get third whilst closing the gap on City and Liverpool would encourage top players and top prospects to want to come to us as we’d be seen as a club on the up with a young squad that potentially go on to great things.
We’re still a pacey centre back, an attacking right back, a pure out and out defensive midfielder and a proven quality right sided attacker away from genuinely and consistently challenging on all fronts domestically but we are certainly headed in the right direction.
If we win a trophy or preferably two trophies and get third whilst closing the gap on City and Liverpool would encourage top players and top prospects to want to come to us as we’d be seen as a club on the up with a young squad that potentially go on to great things.
We’re still a pacey centre back, an attacking right back, a pure out and out defensive midfielder and a proven quality right sided attacker away from genuinely and consistently challenging on all fronts domestically but we are certainly headed in the right direction.
Points total is a fundamentally stupid metric to gauge progress, as it does not take any context whatsoever into consideration. As United has not finished in the top 4 for two successive seasons since The Great Man, I would actually deem doing just that as progress. Right now, on the other hand, seeing how the season so far has progressed, that would disappoint some.
- 1-2 = Happy
- 3-4 = Content
- <4 = Rioting in the streets and hiring a plane banner
I don't think we'd deserve any credit for closing the gap if we only got a small points increase on the prior season. We need to show more than that. Considering the points totals of City and Liverpool will be 78 (3 points dropped on last season) and 72 (27 points dropped on last season), respectively, based on current results, any gain on them would mostly be down to them getting worse.
I think the only thing that would show improvement is a title challenge in this instance. The expected points total is low enough for us to expect it. Also, we should be able to finish second, which will currently only require a 7 point improvement on last season. If we can't do that then you would have to wonder whether we are heading in the right direction at all.
There is talk about what people were expecting at the start of the season, but that is irrelevant because things have turned out differently to how people expected. City and Liverpool (in particular) are a lot weaker than people expected, so mine and other's expectations at the start of the season were based on stronger opposition, not what we are actually facing.
I originally did not expect a title challenge, but now I do. I have revised my expectations based on how City and Liverpool have been. Neither looks anywhere near as strong as they have in the past. I would not be happy if we dropped out of the race and got third like that.
I think the only thing that would show improvement is a title challenge in this instance. The expected points total is low enough for us to expect it. Also, we should be able to finish second, which will currently only require a 7 point improvement on last season. If we can't do that then you would have to wonder whether we are heading in the right direction at all.
There is talk about what people were expecting at the start of the season, but that is irrelevant because things have turned out differently to how people expected. City and Liverpool (in particular) are a lot weaker than people expected, so mine and other's expectations at the start of the season were based on stronger opposition, not what we are actually facing.
I originally did not expect a title challenge, but now I do. I have revised my expectations based on how City and Liverpool have been. Neither looks anywhere near as strong as they have in the past. I would not be happy if we dropped out of the race and got third like that.
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Id want a title challenge minimum after where we are now and yes top 3 but it would have to be close/just missed out 2nd. A title challenge is a must otherwise it's not progress!
We sacked LVG for not making top 4.
Jose would have done feck all as he'd lost the dressing room.
And how exactly would back-to-back top 3 finishes be in anyway comparable to getting fired in April 13pts off 4th place?
No trophies. If we were spurs or arsenal that would be a significant accomplishment. But a club like United requires trophies which lvg and jose delivered. Heck, even moyes did as well
A Cup win would be nice but it's not an indication of progress or a sign that we are on the road to success. However, back to back top 4 finishes for the first time since Fergie left with a young team not yet at their peak would.
Hang on, are you one of these people who is now counting the Charity Shield as a trophy so you can use it as a stick to beat our manager?
Have you no shame?
Nah, for me I prefer to back top four finish than a single trophy. But at United you need more than that. Our standards are much higher. We shouldn't accept the top four trophy as a metric of our success the same way arsenal and spurs fan did because we have one of the most expensive squad and talent to compete at the highest stage.A Cup win would be nice but it's not an indication of progress or a sign that we are on the road to success. However, back to back top 4 finishes for the first time since Fergie left with a young team not yet at their peak would.
Hang on, are you one of these people who is now counting the Charity Shield as a trophy so you can use it as a stick to beat our manager?
Have you no shame?
God no it's not success and I don't think that what the OP meant at all but if we finish top 3 and much closer to the leaders then it is an improvement on the previous year and a sign we are moving in the right direction.
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