A key difference: Most of the posters who are behind Ole don't make those kinds of excuses after losing. Most of the 'Ole out' crowd, on the other hand, do harp on about how we've only beaten shite teams.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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I have not once ever suggested that: "The board haven't backed Ole." I have been VERY vocal about the board having backed Ole, to historical proportions. Woodward in this context has done a great job thus far. We had a great transfer window, despite shortcomings. Sheffield do not have a better squad than us. It's never even down to the players being crap. Games are lost on individual mistakes, GREAT performance from the opposing team, or freak goals.
I'm looking at what goes on on the pitch, and more importantly who does what. It's easy to blame Ole for everything, but conveniently not mention how Marcus Rashford has missed open goal shots in 3 games this season that cost us a win or a draw, or Pogba and Rashford suddenly missing penalties that had huge impacts on our point hunt. And I can't be bothered to write down every other high-danger shot we've missed, but there's been plenty. It's been so bad that the advanced stat tables predicts an average that evens out over the season, more about that in the sentences below.
Fact remains that we've been injury riddled more than any other team this season and funnily enough, injuries DOES matter. A lot.
About Marcus Rashford. Marcus Rashford has started scoring again. He's netted 9 so far, less than 1/3 into the season. Rashford's current best career best: 13 goals. This is going to be a record season for Marcus.
In fact. Macus Rashford misses so many chances that is quantified as "high danger chances" that, when he starts shooting within an expected shooting%, Marcus Rashford is the Top Scorer int he EPL 19/20. He's missing that many chances. And I'm not blowing that out of my ass, we got statistical data for that. Of course statistics isn't gospel, there are too many variables, but you look at that and can conclude that "Huh, Rashford SHOULd have scored more by now"
Manchester United defense. This team is working well. It's working so well that it had to take a career highlight goal to score on us more than once this season. By the advanced statistics, the MUFC defense is the best performing defense this season. Ahead of Liverpool, Everton and Leicester respectively.
The dataset also predicts an uptick in scoring, placing us 4th overall on the season in GA. As for points: 4th. The datasets predict that Leicester will fall off, most noteably Jamie Vardy's one man reign will fall short.
But you know, this is all statistics. It doesn't mean anything if it doesn't happen. But you extrapolate the important things from the numbers it provides. We miss a lot of chances, and we should have scored more with the chances we created. And if we keep going the way we are, things will work out. That is what the data is telling us. Who knows it it will happen, but there it is.
Like, what is the harm in being optimistic and upbeat about where we are headed?
What ? Of course they do. There's a big list of excuses ready after every bad performance or a loss that we read here consistently. Otherwise there wouldn't have been discussions in any Ole threads.
Zinedine Zidane and Pep Guardiola hadn't managed any other team before taking over Madrid and Barca, Ole has been a manager for 9 years and no top club ever came for him except for bloody Cardiff which he relegated. So that comparison is pointless. Just like comparing him to Lampard or any other manager that took over a big team without managerial history. Ole has history as a manager and its mediocre at best.
Do you honestly believe Barca or Madrid would hire a manager who has been around for ten years and done nothing more than win a fisherman's league and relegate a team from La liga?
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I feel like we’ve turned a corner and things will only get better from here. Not just because we’ve had some decent performances lately, but there are several indications that the arrow is pointing upwards. The squad hasn’t been in great shape for a good while and with injuries to key players for the better part of the campaign , it has been a rough start this season, but several players has shown improvement lately and there is optimism in the group. Players are comming back from injuries and makes/will make a positive impact on the team and the results now and in the near future, it looks like we are going to spend some bucks in the January window and strenghten the squad in the midfield or attack or both. With a couple of good signings this rebuild might not take as long as I feared...
I’ve been in the Ole in camp the whole time, and have believed in the transition/rebuild we’re doing, but I really think this the best we’ve looked since Ole was signed permanently. I look forward to the rest of the season and I haven’t felt this good about the Ole-project since we signed him. If we do the right signings in january I don’t think a CL-spot is totally out of reach either.
I’ve been in the Ole in camp the whole time, and have believed in the transition/rebuild we’re doing, but I really think this the best we’ve looked since Ole was signed permanently. I look forward to the rest of the season and I haven’t felt this good about the Ole-project since we signed him. If we do the right signings in january I don’t think a CL-spot is totally out of reach either.
Ole has a history as a successful manager in Norway, and have enjoyed relative success in Europe with Molde, a team of infinite less means than Ajax that they beat, for example. Ole should never have gone near Cardiff, I said it was a mistake to my friends back then, and it only got worse. A completely dysfunctional club that was trending downwards. It had a high % of failure from the get go. Ole admitted mistakes he reportedly learned from during his stay there, so maybe he has.
My response was regarding managers without pedigrees taking over big clubs, and all you have to do is list two of the most successful managers in recent history.
You don't think it's possible to recognise a football philosophy until 7 players have been bought? That the principles behind its final form can't be expected to start showing till the manager has bought half a team.
No one has blamed Ole for everything though. Most of the Ole out crowd slaughter Woodward as well, and to some extent several players. However, he has been of course a big part of the problem himself.
Injuries are a normal thing in football and happen to important players for every team including us and every season. If we were entering the season expecting Pogba, Rashford and Martial to be fit and available all season then we're foolish. Each manager has to deal with injuries and key players missing all the time, be it United or anyone else.
The missing chances count so much because we actually didn't create much in these games so we tend to magnify the impact of one or 2 big chances. Again we're talking a thing that happens to every team around us. Do you think Liverpool and City score every big chance they get and their players don't miss sitters ? They do miss a lot, because that's the nature of football. They score so much because they create loads and thus even with few big chances missed, they would have enough to score and win. When you create 1 or 2 chances only a game and miss them then go on and lose, you'll magnify these chances and think they're the reason you lost, but the reality is the main problem was you only created 2 chances and not more. This is the nature of the sport at the end. Not every sitter ends up at the back of the net.
I honestly never get the notion of being annoyed about fans reaction rather than being annoyed about the team's results or performance. I mean it's pretty hard to expect the fans to be enjoying us hanging around 7th-10th and playing poor for the majority of the games. So far we couldn't even manage 2 wins in a row in the league. When we go on a winning run of 4-5 matches and hang around 4th at least I bet most here would change their opinion and will be willing to give him time, but the start of the season has been terrible from all perspective and it's logical for the fans to be more pessimistic than optimistic.
You are the one that brought them up as examples not me. And being a successful manager in Norway means feck all to be honest. Would you hire the manager of the team that keeps winning the Greek league for example? which happens to be a much better league than the elitasen league or whatever its called. No you wouldn't. Be honest.
And seeing as you brought up Pep and Zidane do you honestly believe Barca or Madrid would hire a manager who has been around for ten years and done nothing more than win a fisherman's league and relegate a team from La liga?
From what I've seen, the 'Ole in' camp more often tends to point to injuries, a thin squad, inability to finish chances and mistakes leading to goals against. To some these are explanations, to others they're excuses. Depends on how responsible for these things you view the manager to be.
The excuses you mentioned (players being crap, Woodward being shit) are common complaints from both sides of the aisle, as far as I've seen. Maybe I don't frequent the same threads as you do.
Not commenting on your overall point, but going by UEFA club coefficients (bar one horror year where the Norwegian teams shat the bed completely in Europe) the Norwegian and Greek leagues are fairly even. Greece is a bigger country, though, with several well known clubs, so of course you'll hear a lot more about it than you would the Norwegian league.
Regardless of whether Solskjaer is good enough or not, just because teams wouldn't hire the manager that keeps winning the Greek league doesn't mean they are correct not to do so. The next SAF could be lurking in some 'fisherman's league' for all we know and just never be given the opportunity to manage top players.
For years in the Premier league there has been the merry go round of jobs for Moyes - Allardyce - Pulis - Redknapp - Bruce etc. In the whole world of football do we really know that these are the best men to manage top 20 clubs in England? No, they are just the 'safe', known option.
The poll has swung more towards keep Ole since Poch became available. Pleasing.
This wouldn't be the media that didn't have a fecking clue Ole was going to become caretaker Manager of Manchester United would it? You know the biggest, or one of the biggest clubs in the world, the one if they don't have stories/rumours about they invent them because they can't go a day without talking about us.
The media started covering Ole to United pretty much two/three day’s before it got announced
Have Lampard or Gerrard built their own team?
The argument that x struggling manager needs full seasons written off to be judged properly is beyond ludicrous. You would think he's just arrived, the way some people write about him. He has been here almost a full year now. That's plenty of time to any sane objective person.
Neither of them needed a rebuild.
Made official maybe, but it came out of the blue and caught everybody out.
So next fall, we'll be in 1st place?
Don't get me wrong it's good that Ole sees this as his dream job but that does also sound like he is just happy to be here.
I would like him to be more demanding towards the board because otherwise they will just think he is content with everything.
I would like him to be more demanding towards the board because otherwise they will just think he is content with everything.
I know. Its so confusing.Why’s that all black people look the same while white people are diverse and varied?
It was almost impossible to separate Lukaku and Martial, and their technic and playing style was alle the same too.
Thank God Lukaku is gone. haha : )
Ole is the best manager for us. The only manager we might restart the rebuild to get is Klopp or Pep. And don't cry about Oles results. We have to do this rebuild. And we should not judge him befor we have at least 7 New players : )
How do you know he isn't?
I love his philosophy. We are playing way better football than Jose's era. Yes, results have been topsy turvy but then a young squad is always going to make such mistakes.
This season is the first in almost 3 seasons when I have been motivated to watch every single minute of football.
Yeah it was fun watching us losing to Newcastle, Bournemouth, WHU and Co.
None of us know how he gets on with the board, and what he has told them he requires to get the club back to competing for the big prizes, and to be playing attacking football. There are a number of players who will undoubtedly leave the club in the next 18 months, and we will have to not only replace them, but also add to the squad. Ole will certainly give youth players a chance to shine, and some of the replacements will probably be these lads, and if we purchase the two, three or four (or more) top quality players that we need then I can see us getting back to the top. If we bring another manager in, then the whole club will go through turmoil, as we have been for six seasons. I feel we have started the long road to recovery, and wouldn't change anything at the moment.
Well said, but I fear you're banging your head against a brick wall trying to get through to some posters.
After looking at this thread I am beginning to doubt whether we have been watching the same matches. We are way worse then LVG and Jose football other than a handful of matches since Paris.
I have enjoyed the football more this season but still dread playing teams who sit in with a low block.
Would also need to see proof this team can gain points from a losing position too.
This post will get lost in the sea of shite but totally agree mate.
We played some awful football under Van Gaal and Mourinho, and we probably had better squads under those managers ( I stopped watching United under Van Gaal because the football was so boring, 80% of the ball and 5 shots!), and I agree, that some matches over the last few months have been poor, but we have also played some decent/good football recently. We have got rid of some players that don't fit, brought in three good players, have introduced academy lads, and to me there seems are much more positive vibe going on.
At first people were saying what's the point of sacking Ole since there was no better manager to replace him. Now Poch is available and people start to argue that given more time Ole could be better than Poch. Feck me.
All top clubs in the world will sack their manager if they can't challenge for the title let alone fail to qualify for CL. We deserve what we get with the romanticism shit for Ole.
People are just backing Ole based on nothing. The worst part was Ole can make beating Partizan, Brighton, Norwich look like a huge success while the ship is sinking.
All top clubs in the world will sack their manager if they can't challenge for the title let alone fail to qualify for CL. We deserve what we get with the romanticism shit for Ole.
People are just backing Ole based on nothing. The worst part was Ole can make beating Partizan, Brighton, Norwich look like a huge success while the ship is sinking.
Ole did inherited Mourinho's squad exactly as it's, so if you feel that the current squad is weaker than what he actually inherited from Mourinho, whose responsibility is that?
Also LVG squad in his second season was as bad if not far worse than the current one.
I am really personally torn at the moment. We started do strong after he came in. We then saw an absolutely dreadful period of football. I think we have seen the worse of it but I also think that as we stand right now we are a top 6 club. That this is now looked upon as success by a group of supporters shows how far the fall has been. i Do feel that Poch is a top tier coach and in the long term we would see more success with him at the helm. I also feel that our leadership structure would also hamper Poch as well, ie Glazers et al.
From looking at the poll that’s very tight. I’m inclined to say let Ole get on with the job for the time being regardless of how much I would like Poch over him.
People say that now because they have done so well. If Lampard flopped people would have said “lost best player” “playing youth” “needs signings” if Rodgers flopped this season people would have said “sold best CB didn’t replace him “ “took over Leicester when they were 12”.
Rebuild is an excuse managers use. When Ole won 10 games in a row and beat PSG no one was talking about this Man Utd needling a 3 year rebuild.
IMproved? we are 10 points away from top 4 !! Wow what an amazing improvement.
and injurie have increase (Musculare ones as well). Play has nit improved we are dreadfull to watch. 1 good game followed by 2 bad ones.
excuses for ogs started!!
And just before he took over, everyone was saying we should sell half the team. Just goes to show fans are kneejerk and clueless.
Even if you don't think Pochettino is good enough you should still sack Ole as he's still not the right person you would want to give him longevity to see what the can do.
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