Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[devilish]

But he gets no credit for the signings?

Signing players isn't and shouldn't be part of the manager's job. Its up for the scouts and the DOF to sign the players we need. The only credit I might give Ole upon on that particular regard is if we sign some young kid from Norway who suddenly becomes WC. That would probably be his call. Managers should be judged from their man management, their vision, their ability to keep players fit and without injury or appoint people capable of doing so, their tactics and their ability to lead a team that can punch way above its weight. I think that Ole did fairly well in terms of man management. His vision is what 99% of the CAF think we should do (and therefore its hardly spectacular) while he had failed on the latter.

Don't take me wrong, there's no shame in not being MUQ. 99.9% of managers are like that. Actually I can't think of 1 name capable of doing what we're asking the manager to do. My only hope is for the next manager to force the club's hand in doing the much needed restructuring we need to make the job achievable.

 

[passing-wind]

I think the emphasis on Ole making good signings is primarily because the previous managers made bad ones, some of the success in this region is being over exaggerated but compared to his useless time at Cardiff he has made good acquisitions in comparison.

Whenever it comes to judging Ole on the football pitch things have been underwhelming to say the least, we have performed poorly throughout his overall tenure but the biggest issue we have is consistency which is why this squad has no meaningful momentum in long periods. Somehow fans think we have turned a corner yet less than a handful of games ago lost to Bournemouth ? Considering the way which we ended last season it would take a 13 / 15 game period before we can gauge any changes in the teams direction.

In life I don't think I've ever seen a long term plan allocated without a measure of short term results to predicate what that "success" looks like in the future especially in business. But this is the narrative I'm seeing more and more from the concensus of those backing Ole, how do we get the top tier list of transfer targets without offering at a minimum European qualification ? Solskjaer himself said the club won't make contingency signings so I think the argument to write off short term success is lost in the reality of the situation the club is in.

The ambition of this club should not be to aimlessly see how things pan out over a timely period, the prerogative is in three or so seasons are we under the current manager ever going to be challenging for the league ? If not then Ole is not the calibre of a manager we are looking for. You also have to consider that Klopp / Pep have set the bar so high that we would need to amass 95+ points to have a shout at the league. I don't see anything in Ole's methodical practices, tactical implementation or even his philosophy to see finishing on 85+ points in this league.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

I think the emphasis on Ole making good signings is primarily because the previous managers made bad ones, some of the success in this region is being over exaggerated but compared to his useless time at Cardiff he has made good acquisitions in comparison.

Whenever it comes to judging Ole on the football pitch things have been underwhelming to say the least, we have performed poorly throughout his overall tenure but the biggest issue we have is consistency which is why this squad has no meaningful momentum in long periods. Somehow fans think we have turned a corner yet less than a handful of games ago lost to Bournemouth ? Considering the way which we ended last season it would take a 13 / 15 game period before we can gauge any changes in the teams direction.

In life I don't think I've ever seen a long term plan allocated without a measure of short term results to predicate what that "success" looks like in the future especially in business. But this is the narrative I'm seeing more and more from the concensus of those backing Ole, how do we get the top tier list of transfer targets without offering at a minimum European qualification ? Solskjaer himself said the club won't make contingency signings so I think the argument to write off short term success is lost in the reality of the situation the club is in.

The ambition of this club should not be to aimlessly see how things pan out over a timely period, the prerogative is in three or so seasons are we under the current manager ever going to be challenging for the league ? If not then Ole is not the calibre of a manager we are looking for. You also have to consider that Klopp / Pep have set the bar so high that we would need to amass 95+ points to have a shout at the league. I don't see anything in Ole's methodical practices, tactical implementation or even his philosophy to see finishing on 85+ points in this league.

Following up from your last statement at the end there, sincerely, apart from the blind hope based on past success, did you see things, if so what, after Klopp’s first season with Liverpool, which made you believe he can reach 85+ points?

My point being hindsight is such a massive help in making “good analyses”. Sometimes you can’t really tell from what’s in front of you. Unless we’re stuck in a relegation fight now, there is not much which would tell you today if Ole can build a team and implement fitting tactics such that we look forward to reaching a high points target in three years time (a lifetime away, in football terms).

 

[Bobcat]

Well you need to be a top top manager to manage Manchester United especially in the state we are in. However let's tackle point by point shall we?

A- apart from AWB who is a 50m rated 'discovery' from an obscure league known as EPL, his signings were suggested by someone else. That's hardly an achievement

B- His deadwood include Smalling who is swiftly becoming one of the best CBs in the Serie A and Lukaku who can't stop scoring goals there. Sanchez is on loan and will come back. Meanwhile players like Shaw, Jones and Lingard are still here. Some were even given long term contracts during the time.

C- apart from Williams and maybe Greenwood very few kids have given enough time to impress. I doubt most have the talent to make it either

Managers should be judged on tactics, on their ability to keep the squad not injured and motivated + their ability to punch above their weight. I see nothing from the failed Cardiff manager who remotely suggest that he's more then Molde's level let alone Man United

Who cares where the players came from or whether or not someone else suggested them. They were good signings, and that is what matters.

Smalling is on loan and can be called back if we want. Better to have him playing matches than rotting on the bench here. Lukau had to go. I cant believe this still is being brought up

Gomes has been injured for a long time and besides Greenwood and Williams both Garner and Chong have gotten chances. Garner has looked alright, but Chong has looked awful

 

[devilish]

He, no. It's not a preference.

Look, the point is a simple one: he gets the credit because he's the manager. With the current (too) small sample size, it could be coincidence: he's okayed obvious targets who were recommended by third parties, and okaying them may not reflect any astuteness on his part.

If he okays another set of signings, which turns out just as well (and if the current set keeps looking good, one might add), then it would be absurd not to give him proper credit.

The idea here is that United have started to target a certain player profile, yes? Not the ADM type - not the Sanchez type. Well, the signings so far under Ole do seem to jibe with that idea. And they have worked out well (so far). If it continues, it would be pretty much undeniable that this is something Ole should be given credit for - again, since we don't have a DOF or any other figure with authority who may be credited with overseeing the business (unless you think Woody has all of a sudden turned into a great recruiter of players in his own right).

And I repeat, the manager isn't responsible of finding new talent for the the club. Its not his job. Its already tough for the manager to keep 30 prima donna fit and motivated, come out with tactics capable of outwitting opposition and to make sure that we've got the right coaching staff, fitness team, medical team etc in place. Now there seem to have been a shift in mentality between buying a mix of big name players (mostly washed up players) and young players with exotic names to resorting to signing safe bets from the local pond. United's has a bloated scouting team which is a patchwork mess of what SAF, Mou and LVG left behind. After the club had spent so much money on tripe then I bet they are under serious scrutiny. Its no wonder why they went for safe bets.

 

[devilish]

Who cares where the players came from or whether or not someone else suggested them. They were good signings, and that is what matters.

Smalling is on loan and can be called back if we want. Better to have him playing matches than rotting on the bench here. Lukau had to go. I cant believe this still is being brought up

Gomes has been injured for a long time and besides Greenwood and Williams both Garner and Chong have gotten chances. Garner has looked alright, but Chong has looked awful

I wouldn't even mention it if it wasn't being used as a weak excuse to defend Ole.

 

[passing-wind]

Following up from your last statement at the end there, sincerely, apart from the blind hope based on past success, did you see things, if so what, after Klopp’s first season with Liverpool, which made you believe he can reach 85+ points?

My point being hindsight is such a massive help in making “good analyses”. Sometimes you can’t really tell from what’s in front of you. Unless we’re stuck in a relegation fight now, there is not much which would tell you today if Ole can build a team and implement fitting tactics such that we look forward to reaching a high points target in three years time (a lifetime away, in football terms).

Actually to be honest the answer to that question is yes, in his first season Klopp got Liverpool to a Europa league final and a league cup final against City. If he had won those competitions he would have attained the double in his first season. Those are pretty glaring signs enough even for Sir Alex to pick up on when he made the prediction that Klopp would be a success, something's he's not remotely uttered under Ole. That's obviously excluding Jürgen's philosophy, his caliber as a manager and what he brings to a team all aspects which imposed themselves from the very infancy of his time at Liverpool.

I really don't understand the Klopp / Solskjaer similarities, before Klopp came to Liverpool he was already a front runner as one of the best managers in world football, the fact we offered him a role is telling now we are talking about the very best manager in world football. Hindsight to my understanding is actually a reflection of making an estimation in the basis of what's in front of you, so on that note judging how Solskjaer has managed this club thus far, hindsight would indicate that he's been a poor managerial appointment. If the glazers could see Solskjaer's record on a paper before time advanced itself, they never would have made him the permanent appointment that to me is hindsight.

 

[devilish]

Each to their own but I really don’t think you need to be a top top manager to manage United. The right fit will get us the job done. Everyone starts somewhere and going back to the examples of Pep and Zidane, they were more than impressive in their first jobs without being considered top top managers when they were offered the job. You can say the context was different but we have tried the top top route and failed, some of us are happy enough with us trying something else now. Who knows, he might not become a top top manager with United... or he might.

A- I responded to you bringing up the fact that his signings were suggested by someone else being a justification of his managerial abilities. He works with the players and definitely decides whom he wants to work with and whom he doesn’t want anymore. We don’t know the dozens of other players he might have been proposed but didn’t like. Managers aren’t scouts, they are given suggestions and they have a look and decide for themselves.

B- Why did you pick only those who have been relatively successful since they left? The fact is they didn’t fit here anymore so they had to go. That’s a sign he knows what he wants and knows what he’s doing, contrary to your earlier insinuation. I’m not saying it makes him a great manager, simply saying he has a plan, whether you appreciate it or not, whether it works or not, is another matter.

C- We’re still in November, at no club of United’s stature, given the pressure to finish in European qualifying positions, would kids be thrown in without caution. Personally I think he’s introducing the kids progressively and nicely to senior football. Chong was tried and when he showed to still be a bit raw and he was sent back to the U23’s. The best way to burn our young talent is to kill their confidence by forcing them to play above their level for extended periods.

Managers should also be judged based on the context. I won’t expect Pep, Klopp or Mourinho to win the league or finish on the top 4 with Norwich this season, for example. Again, it’s OK that you don’t see anything from Ole which suggests he will make it here but many of us do see positive signs. He might not win the league but I’m sure we will be in a better position when he leaves than before he was appointed.

I hear your reasons but I don’t agree with them. I don’t expect you to agree with mine either but we can have a civil discussion. Let’s agree to disagree is all I’m asking.

I think you need to be a genius actually. The manager at United must

a- Manage a very average side with huge egos and very little talent to top 4 (the very least)
b- Do it with style
c- Use kids (most of whom are very average or not yet prepared)
d- be responsible for signings
e- employ the right staff

Even Sir Alex was starting to struggle towards the end of his career and honestly, I can't see any manager capable of doing the job at United

What I am expecting a decent manager to do is

a- Persuade the club to do the restructuring it needs. (DOF etc)
b- Sack most of the coaching staff we've got. Our amount of injuries is beyond ridiculous
c- Sell the deadwood (not the likes of Lukaku or Smalling but the likes of Jones and Shaw whose been stealing a living for years now)
d- Bring in some solid tactics
e- is able to turn 1-2 kids into decent first team level talent.
f- Get us to top 4 or win the Europa league (which is punching up above our weight)

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Its not his job.

Not if the club has a "continental" structure - no.

But United don't have that.

Point being that if the "new approach" slash "long-term plan" is a reality - in other words, if United are now targeting players according to a certain scheme - this must have something to do with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: there isn't anyone else it can be attributed to, is there?

 

[Bobcat]

I wouldn't even mention it if it wasn't being used as a weak excuse to defend Ole.

More like a lame attempt at twisting literally everything into something negative. If he had made 3 shit signing, would you have defended him because "someone else" suggested them?

 

[devilish]

Not if the club has a "continental" structure - no.

But United don't have that.

Point being that if the "new approach" slash "long-term plan" is a reality - in other words, if United are now targeting players according to a certain scheme - this must have something to do with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer: there isn't anyone else it can be attributed to, is there?

It would be ridiculous to think that Ole or any other manager are scouting players and are giving their go ahead based on their knowledge about that said players. However yes, there had been a shift in strategy from that of signing big names (who are great for merchandising purposes) & players with exotic names to signing safe bets from the local pond that had been properly scouted. No one knows if its Ole's vision or whether the club is getting fed up of wasting money.

 

[devilish]

More like a lame attempt at twisting literally everything into something negative. If he had made 3 shit signing, would you have defended him because "someone else" suggested them?

Look I used to blame everything transfer related on Mou and I was wrong. The reason being that he was being blamed for us not signing a DOF. Guess what, Mou has left, Ole has been here for a year and we've yet to sign a DOF and move this club forward into modern times. Its evident that managers at United aren't really in control over transfers. What did Mou called himself to be? Ah yes, head coach.

 

[Bobcat]

Look I used to blame everything transfer related on Mou and I was wrong. The reason being that he was being blamed for us not signing a DOF. Guess what, Mou has left, Ole has been here for a year and we've yet to sign a DOF and move this club forward into modern times. Its evident that managers at United aren't really in control over transfers. What did Mou called himself to be? Ah yes, head coach.

Bollocks. Matic and Zlatan for example are 100% Jose signings, Depay and Scweinsteiger were 100% LvG signings and Fellaini was 100% a Moyes signing. Or did Woody just happen to stumble over ex players for all these managers?

There have been rumors that Woody was behind some transfers like Sanchez and Fred, but i have yet to see hard proof of that and there is no proof anywhere that our managers have not been the ones who have picked their transfers. Woody might be the one who negotiates deals, but hes not the one who picks the targets

 

[Chesterlestreet]

No one knows if its Ole's vision or whether the club is getting fed up of wasting money.

Correct. But it seems to me that it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that this change has something to do with Ole - rather than having something to do with...who? Ed Woodward? He has finally realized that wasting money isn't a good idea? Well, he might - it would be about feckin' time.

But has he started getting more closely involved, personally, with precisely what sort of player profile we target? And is he pretty good at it (as evidenced by the performances of AWB, Maguire and James thus far)? I doubt many would believe that.

Again, having nobody else to credit for the relative (let's not get overly excited, there's no reason for that after all) success of the recent signings, it seems fair enough to credit the manager (who isn't working with a DOF or anyone else fitting that description) for said signings. I repeat: the sample size is clearly too small to declare him brilliant in this regard, but for the time being...he gets a pass.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

I think you need to be a genius actually. The manager at United must

a- Manage a very average side with huge egos and very little talent to top 4 (the very least)
b- Do it with style
c- Use kids (most of whom are very average or not yet prepared)
d- be responsible for signings
e- employ the right staff

I would agree more or less with this. I’m sure you’d agree too that Ole is doing his best to this effect, so I don’t think we would disagree here.

What I am expecting a decent manager to do is

a- Persuade the club to do the restructuring it needs. (DOF etc)
b- Sack most of the coaching staff we've got. Our amount of injuries is beyond ridiculous
c- Sell the deadwood (not the likes of Lukaku or Smalling but the likes of Jones and Shaw whose been stealing a living for years now)
d- Bring in some solid tactics
e- is able to turn 1-2 kids into decent first team level talent.
f- Get us to top 4 or win the Europa league (which is punching up above our weight)

a- No manager can force his employers’ hands to do something which they have no intention of doing. They would have to realise themselves (maybe after many failures) that restructuring is necessary for the long term success of our club. If they are absolutely not interested in restructuring, maybe the agreement before any new manager is signed is that they will have to work with the current setup. If that’s a given, I’m not sure you can expect the manager to push for any change on that front. The executives need to understand that necessity for the long term interest of the club more than a manager who would be here for three to five years at most.

b- Hiring and firing of coaching staff in our current setup quite complicated. Like you said the structure isn’t right so you can’t expect a manager to be some sort of saviour who changes everything from top to bottom. Some of your expectations seem to be those of the executives or DOF in the right structure, not the manager.

c- The manager can signal the list of players he doesn’t want anymore but it’s not up to him to find buyers or negotiate deals for them. Again, this isn’t the prerogative of the manager. Other clubs took the list of expendable players and only went for the better ones who could improve them. Hard to blame Ole for that.

d- The best tactics need the right players to be applied properly. If the players aren’t good enough it won’t work as expected.

e- We’re not there yet but I think we’re on the way there with Ole.

f- We can only judge this at the end of the season, unless we drop into relegation zone.

We just need to be more patient with Ole.

 

[7even]

When I see how good Chelsea is playing it make me sick that we are left behind with one of the worst managers in the league.

I will hold Ole to the same standards as Moyes, LvG and Mou. Nothing except top four is acceptable. Otherwise he most go.

 

[Red Devil's Advocate]

I will hold Ole to the same standards as Moyes, LvG and Mou. Nothing except top four is acceptable. Otherwise he most go.
[/QUOTE]
You can't be serious. Just compare that midfield and attack to ours. Huge gulf in class. Jorginho and Kante and Willian are seasoned campaigners and that shows.
You are just comparing Lampard to Ole because they both took over at around the same time. Just don't be a deluded fan.

 

[Ancient Of Days]

You can't be serious. Just compare that midfield and attack to ours. Huge gulf in class. Jorginho and Kante and Willian are seasoned campaigners and that shows.
You are just comparing Lampard to Ole because they both took over at around the same time. Just don't be a deluded fan.

Were not Herrera, Fellaini, Matic and Pogba seasoned campaigners when Ole took over?

Did Ole not have the advantage of having two transfer windows?

 

[Kemizee]

Don't get me wrong it's good that Ole sees this as his dream job but that does also sound like he is just happy to be here.

I would like him to be more demanding towards the board because otherwise they will just think he is content with everything.

Of course he is happy to be here. What other top club would make such a daft appointment? He is in dreamland. A place where all he has to do is smile a lot, talk about camaraderie in training despite the results not matching the talk, give lectures on youth and how it is a process, Rome was not built in a day.
A club where on-pitch performance is secondary. All you have to do is be subservient to the board and not rock the boat. No accountability in the managerial or boardroom structure. A club where the fans would be patient with anything and any league position besides relegation and where you need 3 years and multiple transfer windows to even have a semblance of a style of play.
A managerial seat where you can afford to be utterly abysmal and yet still receive standing ovations because the fans have bought into the notion that 'it is a process'... while you placate them with talks about their heritage and how you intend to restore lost glory despite all evidence pointing to the contrary. Tactical ingenuity is not primary as a manager. What matters is 'how much you know the club inside out'. Tell me who in the world wouldn't be happy with such a job? It's basically made in heaven.

 

[mu4c_20le]

that we are left behind with one of the worst managers in the league.

Surely thats Lampard? 1 year in the championship, finished sixth and failed to gain promotion.

 

[TwoSheds]

Were not Herrera, Fellaini, Matic and Pogba seasoned campaigners when Ole took over?

Did Ole not have the advantage of having two transfer windows?

2 of them weren't very good and 2 of them got better offers from clubs who aren't (as much of) a shambles. What's Ole supposed to do about that?

Lampard has a young, talented squad, almost all of whom have decent experience on loan plus a sprinkling of quality, experienced pros on top. And he's still lost twice to us this season already.

In reality, neither manager is top class but both of them are promising and there's the possibility they're both building something decent.

 

[momo83]

Its not what its all about, no, but if you have a vision on how you want to play, then unless the players are good enough to adhere to that, then unfortunately you can't do that. Some would argue that a manager needs to play to the current strengths of the squad, but I guess from Ole's point of view, he's trying to build and stick to a certain philosophy.

What history am I changing?

So what you’re saying is that Ole has a style of play that he’s holding back on implementing and will only start to use once he has all the right players?

Does that make sense? So he’ll get the squad used to playing one way and then once he has the right players he’ll say right lads now we’re going to change our style of play? Unless if he’s planning on signing 22 players that doesn’t make sense.

Surely the way to handle it, as most managers who genuinely have a philosophy and style of play do, would be to implement it and get your squad used to playing it and then perfect it through time and transfer ins and outs.

 

[momo83]

Surely thats Lampard? 1 year in the championship, finished sixth and failed to gain promotion.

When we lose we are crap. When Chelsea lose like today you see a team that in 1-2 years might have one, you see a style of play, you see young players coached and improving.

 

[Shiva87]

So Kane He just picked and coached himself into the player he is today? . There was no coaching involved to develop his game? We're going to disingenuously take credit away from the job Poch did to help improve their young players and make them mainstays in the first team?

Brandon Williams was floating around in the academy likewise Greenwood. If they turns out to be great consistent first team players in the future, I'm sure you'll be the first to assign credit and praise Ole for his work in coaching them and maintaining trust in them, which would be the right thing to do. You wouldn't try and twist it and say they were already in the academy when he arrived.

As for the squad he took over, you're rewriting history here.

Was this team superior to the United team Ole took over?

Lloris
Danny Rose
Younès Kaboul
Jan Vertonghen
Tom Huddlestone
Zek Friyes
Chad Dawson
Aaron Lennon
Scott Parker
Capoue
Emmanuel Adebayor
Jamaine Defoe
Arron Lennon
Onomah
Mousah Dembele
Naughton
Kyle Walker
Clint Dempsey
Winks
Kane

Who were these guys who were in their peak and primed? Kane was a itty bitty boy at 17 years old who no one had heard of and so was Winks.

So much of those players look like deadwood to me.

The only exception young talents who were ready to be the spin of the team as you say were Walker, Erikson and Vertonghen

Poch finished 5th with that team after they finished 6th the previous season, while having them play attacking football.

Compare that to the team Ole took over which has

De Gea
Smalling
Lindelof
Tuazenbe
Darmian
Dalot
Jones
Rojo
Baily
Shaw
Young
Matic
Fred
Fellaini
Herrera
Pogba
Sanchez
Lingard
Martial
Rashford
Lukaku

With that same team we finished 6th in Ole's first half season in charge. After Ole has put his stamp on the team through pre season and signings, now we're languishing mid table, having periods where we flirt with settling in the bottom of half the table. Top 4 out of the equation where many would be ecstatic if we finished 6th again.

And you say there is no way of knowing whether Poch would have been able to replicate or improve on that

Great post if you forget all context!

Jose, the special one, was languishing in 7th place with that team, after he had 2.5 seasons putting his stamp on the club with no hope of United finishing within the top 4. I guess you need some reminding of that.

I'm sure Jose will do better with the current Spurs squad over the next 2-3 seasons than Poch did. We should hire Jose back!

 

[Foxbatt]

Look at the Turkish defender at Leicester. He is very good. We never seem to look at these kind of players at all now. I am sure he is as good as Maguire and certainly a lot better than Lindelof, Rojo, Smalling and Jones. They only paid 24 million for him. Tielemans went for 40 million.

 

[Ancient Of Days]

2 of them weren't very good and 2 of them got better offers from clubs who aren't (as much of) a shambles. What's Ole supposed to do about that?

Lampard has a young, talented squad, almost all of whom have decent experience on loan plus a sprinkling of quality, experienced pros on top. And he's still lost twice to us this season already.

In reality, neither manager is top class but both of them are promising and there's the possibility they're both building something decent.

Poor Ole, always the victim. Always some external factor as to why he couldn't achieve something.

Why didn't Ole find a replacement if he thought these midfielders weren't very good even though both Herrera and Fellaini were producing better numbers and performances on the pitch then the current bunch?

Oh yeah we got the excuse that Woodward double crossed him!

Any challenging question for why Ole didn't do something or didn't produce results it's always because he was dealt a by hand through having been let down by the players, woodwork or the club's fault.

Ask his supporters why he fell flat on his face at cardiff and they will say it had nothing to do with Ole.

On paper if Lampard had Pogba, Herrera, Fellaini, along with Mctominay, Fred and Perrera at Chelsea and got them to produce results while playing exciting football, while Ole was failing get a tune out of Kovacic Kante, Jorginho, Barkley and Monk at United, you;d say Lampard had the better team filled with one of the best midfielders in the world and seasoned experienced premier league players who came 2nd the season before.

So you can see the narrative can easily be span which ever way you want. The fact is the difference in quality between the two teams are marginal at best except one manager was essentially handicapped going into this season having to go through a transfer ban.

Ole had the privilege of spending 150 million and people still want to paint him as some hard done by victim who didn't get backed.

What Lampard is doing at chelse and Brendan Rodgers who lost his best defender to us in the summer, simply brings to shame and exposes the terrible sub standard hatchet job Ole is currently doing here.

 

[mu4c_20le]

When we lose we are crap. When Chelsea lose like today you see a team that in 1-2 years might have one, you see a style of play, you see young players coached and improving.

Thats the benefit of a settled, balanced squad that has gelled together for years. After Fergie retired, four managers later and we've still yet to see the best of Rashford and Martial. When we win, we play some of the best attacking football post SAF, and the best i've seen from Pogba was during that winning run.

 

[momo83]

Thats the benefit of a settled, balanced squad that has gelled together for years. After Fergie retired, four managers later and we've still yet to see the best of Rashford and Martial. When we win, we play some of the best attacking football post SAF, and the best i've seen from Pogba was during that winning run.

Since SAF retired Chelsea have had Mourinho, Conte, Sarri, and now Lampard.. that’s 4 managers same as us.

Our attacking football under Ole when we win is basic CM from deep play direct ball to front three, front three run and score. It’s good counter attacking football, but when that’s all the team can do at home vs Brighton its concerning

 

[7even]

You can't be serious. Just compare that midfield and attack to ours. Huge gulf in class. Jorginho and Kante and Willian are seasoned campaigners and that shows.
You are just comparing Lampard to Ole because they both took over at around the same time. Just don't be a deluded fan.

I’m sorry but before the season started our manager told us supporters that he was perfectly happy with his squad, no regrets. OK. Two injuries later and it’s a “huge gulf in class”. Convenient. If he wins he gets supports. A loss against SU and we’re back to square one.

Lampard has in less then six month transformed his youngsters to a free flowing team full of creativity and attacking intentions. Great to watch and his results so far is excellent. That‘s what you get with a talented leadership.

Top four. No excuses.

 

[momo83]

I’m sorry but before the season started our manager told us supporters that he was perfectly happy with his squad, no regrets. OK. Two injuries later and it’s a “huge gulf in class”. Convenient. If he wins he gets supports. A loss against SU and we’re back to square one.

Lampard has in less then six month transformed his youngsters to a free flowing team full of creativity and attacking intentions. Great to watch and his results so far is excellent. That‘s what you get with a talented leadership.

Top four. No excuses.

If you look at before the summer even Ole’s most ardent fans said top 4 or at worse 5/6 if there’s signs of good football. They keep changing the goal post it’s ridiculous

 

[momo83]

Poor Ole, always the victim. Always some external factor as to why he couldn't achieve something.

Why didn't Ole find a replacement if he thought these midfielders weren't very good even though both Herrera and Fellaini were producing better numbers and performances on the pitch then the current bunch?

Oh yeah we got the excuse that Woodward double crossed him!

Any challenging question for why Ole didn't do something or didn't produce results it's always because he was dealt a by hand through having been let down by the players, woodwork or the club's fault.

Ask his supporters why he fell flat on his face at cardiff and they will say it had nothing to do with Ole.

On paper if Lampard had Pogba, Herrera, Fellaini, along with Mctominay, Fred and Perrera at Chelsea and got them to produce results while playing exciting football, while Ole was failing get a tune out of Kovacic Kante, Jorginho, Barkley and Monk at United, you;d say Lampard had the better team filled with one of the best midfielders in the world and seasoned experienced premier league players who came 2nd the season before.

So you can see the narrative can easily be span which ever way you want. The fact is the difference in quality between the two teams are marginal at best except one manager was essentially handicapped going into this season having to go through a transfer ban.

Ole had the privilege of spending 150 million and people still want to paint him as some hard done by victim who didn't get backed.

What Lampard is doing at chelse and Brendan Rodgers who lost his best defender to us in the summer, simply brings to shame and exposes the terrible sub standard hatchet job Ole is currently doing here.

All the excuses made for Ole it’s almost as if his own fans accept that he’s incompetent and needs special allowances made for him

 

[fergiesarmy1]

I’m sorry but before the season started our manager told us supporters that he was perfectly happy with his squad, no regrets. OK. Two injuries later and it’s a “huge gulf in class”. Convenient. If he wins he gets supports. A loss against SU and we’re back to square one.

Lampard has in less then six month transformed his youngsters to a free flowing team full of creativity and attacking intentions. Great to watch and his results so far is excellent. That‘s what you get with a talented leadership.

Top four. No excuses.

Do you believe everything a manager says in the press?

A lot of people also turned on Ole for wanting Lukaku out, turns out he requested to leave sometime in April. The fact Ed failed to land a replacement is on him.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Lampard has in less then six month transformed his youngsters to a free flowing team full of creativity and attacking intentions. Great to watch and his results so far is excellent. That‘s what you get with a talented leadership.

Show Sarri some respect, that is his midfield. Also the youngsters were poor today.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

So what you’re saying is that Ole has a style of play that he’s holding back on implementing and will only start to use once he has all the right players?

Does that make sense? So he’ll get the squad used to playing one way and then once he has the right players he’ll say right lads now we’re going to change our style of play? Unless if he’s planning on signing 22 players that doesn’t make sense.

Surely the way to handle it, as most managers who genuinely have a philosophy and style of play do, would be to implement it and get your squad used to playing it and then perfect it through time and transfer ins and outs.

I think it's clear that Ole wants to build a counter attacking side.

Now, you can only play like that if you have the right players. For example, when Martial got injured, it meant we had to move away from James and Rashford on the wings, and had no one of that style to replace them. Martial as the target man was also something we lost, and we've seen the difference since he's come back.

I think with a better attacking midfielder than Pereira, a better midfielder than Fred, for example, and we see better performances. We need better players. Its as simple as that!

No way did Pep have City the way he has them playing now when he first joined. He spent an incredible amount of money on the players that suited his philosophy. Ole needs to do the same.

 

[Machine Elements]

Sack him if he loses against Sheffield and get Poch ASAP. This is our best chance to get a manager who is tactically astute, proven in the league and plays good football. There is no point in hoping your incompetent manager suddenly turns to a world class coach and turns it all around. But we as a club are not ambitious and too happy to give our underachieving players/managers time to see the inevitable which is they are not good enough.

 

[7even]

Show Sarri some respect, that is his midfield. Also the youngsters were poor today.

Yes, some of the youngsters were poor. Still the team played some great attacking football.

Chelsea plays with intentions, you can see patterns in their style. Lampard has so far done a great job with limited defensive resources. He has found a good midfield balance between Jorginho and Kanté and his team looks better today then last season. That’s improvement.

Our team looks one dimensional, only one type of attacking intentions. Hard to see any patterns except counter or high intensive press. Our possession game is poor. We struggle without key players. Our squad is un balanced, poorly managed. The only way to see long term improvements is to buy more quality player and sell so called “deadwood“. That’s the opposite of good management.

 

[momo83]

I think it's clear that Ole wants to build a counter attacking side.

Now, you can only play like that if you have the right players. For example, when Martial got injured, it meant we had to move away from James and Rashford on the wings, and had no one of that style to replace them. Martial as the target man was also something we lost, and we've seen the difference since he's come back.

I think with a better attacking midfielder than Pereira, a better midfielder than Fred, for example, and we see better performances. We need better players. Its as simple as that!

No way did Pep have City the way he has them playing now when he first joined. He spent an incredible amount of money on the players that suited his philosophy. Ole needs to do the same.

The style was the same. Not as effective until he got the right players full backs and cb’s . But he didn’t not play his style because he signed bravo and bravo was crap etc

 

[el3mel]

Anyway I wonder what the atmosphere will be like at the same time tomorrow. Pretty crucial match that for me. Win and I may start warming up to him, anything else and I will be sure it will a repeat of LvG second season exactly as it was.

 

[momo83]

Do you believe everything a manager says in the press?

A lot of people also turned on Ole for wanting Lukaku out, turns out he requested to leave sometime in April. The fact Ed failed to land a replacement is on him.

Ole made it clear he wasn’t first choice. Ole as manager should have known that a player like Lukaku would not accept being second choice.

 

[Judas]

Tomorrow is a very difficult game, I think going in expecting a win is unrealistic. I know if you look at the game on paper or purely in isolation its Sheffield Utd vs Man Utd, but taking into account how both sides have played this season, I know which result looks the less likely.

I'll be impressed if Ole can get this team a win tomorrow, it would be his best result of the season so far probably. They will play exactly how we hate teams to play, the way we've looked shite against so many times, not just under Ole but under the past few managers.