Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Wumminator]

The wins are not the problem it's how we have achieved them. Long term it's simply unsustainable to come back from losing positions most weeks.

We have been pretty fortunate to end up with the amount of points that we currently have and I find it concerning because over the course of a season we will get found out.

So to be clear again.

Your problem with Ole can be summarised as this. I promise I am just trying to get you to put your problems with the manager on the page.

Your problems seem to be:

'Ole has enough points in the league and the results aren't the issue. However, we are coming from behind to win in too many games'

Is that accurate?

 

[Flexdegea]

It is said and repeated 100 times already and i don't have desire to name names again and again.
To say it simple; i would take Moyes back any second if it is Ole or Moyes. He is space shuttle comparing to Solskjaer

Honestly mate you need to log out and take a deep breathe as you are coming across as a massive troll, or maybe severe Ole Derangement syndrome.


Not even making sense anymore.

 

[sunama]

Ah okay.

So good managers will inevitably score more than us.

Interestingly I don’t think there’s any team that has scored more than us in the CL and Prem this year.

We've just been dumped out of the CL and you are boasting about our excellent attack in the CL?
And I just checked the league table - 8th place. Behind Jose and Moyes who were not good enough to manage us.
8th place in December is absolutely sack worthy. The shocking thing is that this season's league is easier because LFC and MCFC are not firing on all cylinders.

 

[Wumminator]

Celebrating draws tells you everything you need to know about Ole ins

Okay - once again.

Which manager in the Prem would you like who hasn't celebrated a draw at one point?

Considering Liverpool have literally come out today and said how important it was to get a draw against Fulham.

 

[Wumminator]

Honestly mate you need to log out and take a deep breathe as you are coming across as a massive troll, or maybe severe Ole Derangement syndrome.


Not even making sense anymore.

'Anymore'

 

[Berbaclass]

Here's how this argument effectively boils down.

We drew v Man City
Liverpool drew with Fulham
Tottenham drew with Palace
Chelsea lost to Everton.

I see it as - We played by far the hardest teams and lost no ground to our rivals.
Others see it as - Even though we played the hardest team - we should always win and if not it's all on the manager.

There are simply those ways of looking at it.

It's not that simple. My point of view (which I have repeated multiple times) is that the relatively low level which City were at yesterday was a missed opportunity for us to not try and win the game instead of just settling for a draw. With that in mind and then also seeing rivals all drop points it's disappointing to me that we didn't try harder because we absolutely did not play at our best yesterday.

 

[Wumminator]

It's not that simple. My point of view (which I have repeated multiple times) is that the relatively low level which City were at yesterday was a missed opportunity for us to not try and win the game instead of just settling for a draw. With that in mind and then also seeing rivals all drop points it's disappointing to me that we didn't try harder because we absolutely did not play at our best yesterday.

I know we didn't play at our best yesterday.

Neither did City (partly down to us.)
This weekend teams who I would say played their best include:
a) Southampton
b) Everton (?)

Overall, I just think it is okay to sometimes not play our best. I actually think it's logical that a lot of the time teams do not play their best.

What does matter is how many points they pick up. As of now. This year. Right now. We have picked up a good amount of points. Especially considering the lack of preseason, lack of money spent (relatively) and youngish age of our squad.

This is why I am so adamant for people to tell me as of right now what Ole could be doing better in the league. Some people here have mentioned eventually we will fall off. Some people have mentioned that he failed at Cardiff. Some people have mentioned a 3-2 loss against the CL semi-finalists.

For me.. I just like Manchester United. I don't think we can win or play well all the time. But feck me we've had some great moments this year. We've beaten some top clubs, scored some great goals and got some loveable players.

Some say that makes me a WUM. I just want people to question their own thoughts.

 

[sunama]

This City side will probably end up winning the league. Let's be clear - anyone finishing above them will probably win the league.

But - they're a 'tepid' side.

In case people don't know, MCFC are in 9th place. They are playing terribly and enduring one of their worst seasons since they got their oil money.
This is definitely not a team that will win the league or get close.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Why do you need to come with baseless facts. If you knew what Solskajer did in Norway, you would see him as a person that made Molde what they are now and put stop to Rosenborg dominition. Sometimes, it is better to not say anything.

Yeah right.
"Solskjaer won back-to-back league titles in 2011 and 2012 during his first spell with Molde and left to take charge of Cardiff in January 2014.

He was unable to keep the Bluebirds in the Premier League and lasted just eight months in Wales. Molde, meanwhile, won a league title without him.

Solskjaer returned to Molde in October 2015, but only managed to guide his side to sixth and two second-placed finishes before leaving for England and they are doing fine again in his absence"

 

[Berbaclass]

So to be clear again.

Your problem with Ole can be summarised as this. I promise I am just trying to get you to put your problems with the manager on the page.

Your problems seem to be:

'Ole has enough points in the league and the results aren't the issue. However, we are coming from behind to win in too many games'

Is that accurate?

That's a very simplistic way of looking at it but yes. We've had fortune go in our favour so far. There will come a time when individual quality alone won't be enough to bail us out in certain games. Then the true problem of us not being very effective and inconsistent as a team will be exposed.

 

[90 + 5min]

We've just been dumped out of the CL and you are boasting about our excellent attack in the CL?
And I just checked the league table - 8th place. Behind Jose and Moyes who were not good enough to manage us.
8th place in December is absolutely sack worthy. The shocking thing is that this season's league is easier because LFC and MCFC are not firing on all cylinders.

2 points (if we win game in hand)? Sackable? Give me a break.

Should Guardiola get sack before Solskjaer?

 

[Forevergiggs1]

No I mean... how many more points should Ole have got for you to be happy with him?

Maybe we shouldn't be talking about points but the way we got them, or didn't as the case may be. How sustainable can it be playing like that week In, week out because that's what we've been doing. How many games have we been completely out of it for large portions then we decide to turn up for 15 or 20 minutes? How many times this season have we heard, "well that's the worst half of football I've ever seen us play?" If teams get their act together we're going to be left behind, if not then yeah we have a shot at something but depending on other teams to be shitier than us hardly speaks of glowing terms of our manager.

 

[90 + 5min]

Yeah right.
"Solskjaer won back-to-back league titles in 2011 and 2012 during his first spell with Molde and left to take charge of Cardiff in January 2014.

He was unable to keep the Bluebirds in the Premier League and lasted just eight months in Wales. Molde, meanwhile, won a league title without him.

Solskjaer returned to Molde in October 2015, but only managed to guide his side to sixth and two second-placed finishes before leaving for England and they are doing fine again in his absence"

Google it... Fine. No problem.

But if you manage to talk to football people in Norway (and not just fans) they will tell you exaclty what kind of influence Solskjaer had and still have on Molde.

 

[Leftback99]

We've just been dumped out of the CL and you are boasting about our excellent attack in the CL?
And I just checked the league table - 8th place. Behind Jose and Moyes who were not good enough to manage us.
8th place in December is absolutely sack worthy. The shocking thing is that this season's league is easier because LFC and MCFC are not firing on all cylinders.

What is the line for 'sackworthy' by December? If we draw the game in hand which could put us 5th is that then not 'sackworthy'?

 

[izec]

Title race is wide open. Poch now and we win the league

 

[He'sRaldo]

We need to dominate games and play well.

Ole's managed to come back from losing situations multiple times this year thanks to the quality of the squad, but we all know it's unsustainable. Home form is unsustainable. Conceding first and then scrambling to get level is unsustainable. Changing formation and lineup every game is unsustainable.

That's why we need to see something on the pitch that actually points to long term. We need to see him implement something which will dominate and open up most teams, while keeping it solid at the back. If you're in here to talk purely about points, then you'd better be ready to admit he needs to be sacked should he not amass enough points to win the PL this season.

 

[Wumminator]

Maybe we shouldn't be talking about points but the way we got them, or didn't as the case may be. How sustainable can it be playing like that week In, week out because that's what we've been doing. How many games have we been completely out of it for large portions then we decide to turn up for 15 or 20 minutes? How many times this season have we heard, "well that's the worst half of football I've ever seen us play?" If teams get their act together we're going to be left behind, if not then yeah we have a shot at something but depending on other teams to be shitier than us hardly speaks of glowing terms of our manager.

I don't really deal with ifs to be honest. I think this year we've done okay and not really picked up any points when we shouldn't have. I thought we had some shocking refereeing against us in the Palace game, shocking finishing against PSG away and actually should have scored more upon reflection against RBL. I also think against Tottenham Martial getting sent off was very harsh considering a Tottenham player committed the same mistake.

A lot of you are now saying 'It's not the results so far, it's what might happen.' Well that is not what it feels like. If you said that, fair enough. However, our results this year are decent actually. They're perfectly fine.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Google it... Fine. No problem.

But if you manage to talk to football people in Norway (and not just fans) they will tell you exaclty what kind of influence Solskjaer had and still have on Molde.

Yeah I know, all Norwegians love Ole.

 

[Berbaclass]

2 points (if we win game in hand)? Sackable? Give me a break.

Should Guardiola get sack before Solskjaer?

If City keep playing the way that they have been then yes. They are nowhere near the level they should be in big games. The difference is thought that Guardiola has the CV to buy him more time. You'd be willing to accept a few months of turbulence with the track record he has.

 

[Wumminator]

We need to dominate games and play well.

Ole's managed to come back from losing situations multiple times this year thanks to the quality of the squad, but we all know it's unsustainable. Home form is unsustainable. Conceding first and then scrambling to get level is unsustainable. Changing formation and lineup every game is unsustainable.

That's why we need to see something on the pitch that actually points to long term. We need to see him implement something which will dominate and open up most teams, while keeping it solid at the back. If you're in here to talk purely about points, then you'd better be ready to admit he needs to be sacked should he not amass enough points to win the PL this season.

Which manager in the league is dominating games and playing well?

Who is dominating games and playing better footy than Ole?

 

[Berbaclass]

Title race is wide open. Poch now and we win the league

I don't necessarily thing we would win the league but I think we would get closer.

 

[Leftback99]

In case people don't know, MCFC are in 9th place. They are playing terribly and enduring one of their worst seasons since they got their oil money.
This is definitely not a team that will win the league or get close.

Which team will win the league? I'd like to win some money since you are telling me the current favourites will be nowhere near.

 

[Wumminator]

In case people don't know, MCFC are in 9th place. They are playing terribly and enduring one of their worst seasons since they got their oil money.
This is definitely not a team that will win the league or get close.

Oooof.

I am looking forward to revisiting this.

 

[Flexdegea]

Title race is wide open. Poch now and we win the league

What the manager who managed to come third in a 2 horse title race.


Fair enough if you think another manager the league, but he certainly not the man for it. That spurs team was prob as good if not better on paper than ours in my opinion.

 

[Wumminator]

Just to be clear again. I'm just summarising some of the posts in this page.

a) United being two points off top if they win their game in hand is a fine position to be in right now. - That's me

v
a) David Moyes is a better manager than Ole @Andycoleno9
b) Man City are rubbish and will be nowhere near the top of the league @sunama
c) Pochetino will win us the league this year if he takes over @izak

 

[He'sRaldo]

Which manager in the league is dominating games and playing well?

Who is dominating games and playing better footy than Ole?

Doesn't matter, we already know the managers who can.

What does matter is our manager has never shown he's capable of doing so, so we need to see something to back him. We've been waiting for two years, so the patience is running out.

 

[Flexdegea]

Just to be clear again. I'm just summarising some of the posts in this page.

a) United being two points off top if they win their game in hand is a fine position to be in right now. - That's me

v
a) David Moyes is a better manager than Ole @Andycoleno9
b) Man City are rubbish and will be nowhere near the top of the league @sunama
c) Pochetino will win us the league this year if he takes over @izak

The moyes comment is unbelievable.


It's like we dont already have the evidence of Moyes managing us with a title winning squad, where his major signing was fellaini, and easily the most disastrous comedy period of our club I can remember with records getting smashed weekly.


Cant even believe we are talking about it

 

[Wumminator]

Doesn't matter, we already know the managers who can.

What does matter is our manager has never shown he's capable of doing so, so we need to see something to back him. We've been waiting for two years, so the patience is running out.

So your position is that even though there’s no manager who is currently playing well and dominating games - United’s manager should be doing that.

That’s bizarre to me - fair enough.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Just to be clear again. I'm just summarising some of the posts in this page.

a) United being two points off top if they win their game in hand is a fine position to be in right now. - That's me

v
a) David Moyes is a better manager than Ole @Andycoleno9
b) Man City are rubbish and will be nowhere near the top of the league @sunama
c) Pochetino will win us the league this year if he takes over @izak

I stand behind A. And also behind C.
B is not true.

 

[Rightnr]

Dortmund sacked Favre. Idiots. If they gave him time he could have become Hitzfeld.

Yeah, man, agree. Just not enough true fan DNA at that club. If only they had Ed in charge.

 

[Bilbo]

It's not that simple. My point of view (which I have repeated multiple times) is that the relatively low level which City were at yesterday was a missed opportunity for us to not try and win the game instead of just settling for a draw. With that in mind and then also seeing rivals all drop points it's disappointing to me that we didn't try harder because we absolutely did not play at our best yesterday.

There is another way of looking at the game yesterday. Citys line up illustrated a certain level of respect towards our team that they hadn't shown us in quite a few seasons. Certainly not during Peps time there. I thought it was rather a compliment to us that they felt the need to use Rodri AND Fernandinho.

The game itself was dull, but I'd have been happy with a draw beforehand and with the way that this weekend has gone its become a better result. The Cafe has a very bad habit of over analysing everything. This is the type of game you just move on from quickly.

 

[He'sRaldo]

So your position is that even though there’s no manager who is currently playing well and dominating games - United’s manager should be doing that.

That’s bizarre to me - fair enough.

Of course.

Liverpool ran away with it last season because no one else would. Why should we settle for what others are doing?

 

[Berbaclass]

Which manager in the league is dominating games and playing well?

Who is dominating games and playing better footy than Ole?

None at the moment. We're seeing a relatively poor level from most of the top teams for whatever reason.

I think Liverpool is down to the insane levels they've been at for the last two seasons, inevitable there is to be a drop off with them.

City, well I guess you could point to them being in somewhat of a transitional period at the moment. Silva, Kompany, Aguero, arguably the three pillars of their recent title winning machine all gone or approaching the end of their time.

Chelse are a little inconsistent but for many of the reasons we are. Younger players and a young manager effectively learning his trade at the top level under huge pressure.

Tottenham are interesting because they have a very settled squad and a very experienced manager who has been there and done it so I don't think it's no surprise to see them being among the most consistent teams right now. They have a lot of players in their peak years too which is helping them grind results out with both team performances and individual moments of brilliance.

I think the problem Ole has for me personally is that we are just not anywhere near convincing enough as a team. Add to that the fact he's been here for 2-3 years now you have to think we'll when are things finally going to drop in place if they are at all? From what I've seen from him so far I'm just not convinced that he knows how to take us into the next level. Arguably, that's not his fault because he's never been in the situation before but how long do you persist with it hoping that he might figure it out?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Honestly mate you need to log out and take a deep breathe[/B] as you are coming across as a massive troll, or maybe severe Ole Derangement syndrome.


Not even making sense anymore.

, believe it or not but i agree with you.
But just to be clear; i didn't said that Moyes is a good manager. I said that he is better than Ole. Big difference.

Now, i am going to watch Mandalorian and calm down.

 

[Bilbo]

I stand behind A. And also behind C.
B is not true.

Its very easy to stand behind things that you're never going to need to be held accountable for

 

[Wumminator]

None at the moment. We're seeing a relatively poor level from most of the top teams for whatever reason.

I think Liverpool is down to the insane levels they've been at for the last two seasons, inevitable there is to be a drop off with them.

City, well I guess you could point to them being in somewhat of a transitional period at the moment. Silva, Kompany, Aguero, arguably the three pillars of their recent title winning machine all gone or approaching the end of their time.

Chelse are a little inconsistent but for many of the reasons we are. Younger players and a young manager effectively learning his trade at the top level under huge pressure.

Tottenham are interesting because they have a very settled squad and a very experienced manager who has been there and done it so I don't think it's no surprise to see them being among the most consistent teams right now. They have a lot of players in their peak years too which is helping them grind results out with both team performances and individual moments of brilliance.

I think the problem Ole has for me personally is that we are just not anywhere near convincing enough as a team. Add to that the fact he's been here for 2-3 years now you have to think we'll when are things finally going to drop in place if they are at all? From what I've seen from him so far I'm just not convinced that he knows how to take us into the next level. Arguably, that's not his fault because he's never been in the situation before but how long do you persist with it hoping that he might figure it out?

For me Berba - you are a very good poster. I can completely see your points of view.

However for me this is a lot of excuses for other managers whilst not giving our manager a lot of slack.

I can however understand your feelings. Let’s hope we beat Sheff United this Thursday.

 

[Berbaclass]

There is another way of looking at the game yesterday. Citys line up illustrated a certain level of respect towards our team that they hadn't shown us in quite a few seasons. Certainly not during Peps time there. I thought it was rather a compliment to us that they felt the need to use Rodri AND Fernandinho.

The game itself was dull, but I'd have been happy with a draw beforehand and with the way that this weekend has gone its become a better result. The Cafe has a very bad habit of over analysing everything. This is the type of game you just move on from quickly.

I think that's a totally valid point. I was just surprised how much intensity they lacked yesterday. We can agree that the players they had should have produced a better performance though?

 

[Berbaclass]

For me Berba - you are a very good poster. I can completely see your points of view.

However for me this is a lot of excuses for other managers whilst not giving our manager a lot of slack.

I can however understand your feelings. Let’s hope we beat Sheff United this Thursday.

Absolutely.

 

[Wumminator]

Of course.

Liverpool ran away with it last season because no one else would. Why should we settle for what others are doing?

Because to hold our manger to a standard of “far surpassing everyone else in the league” is much too high and you’ll never be happy.

 

[GiddyUp]

Haha. Well, thats what the answer is when people lie and when you ask them to prove it they cant. Have I nice day.

Sure pal. Sure. Clown