Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?


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Speedicut75

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But there’s an argument he had to sell to buy to address the major problems. And that is a process that was always going to take several windows.

Regardless, we can break the problems down across both micro and macro scales:

Micro - The Manager

- On the positive side he has shown good tactical awareness and flexibility playing against teams that attack and leave space across the pitch. Hence his hood record against the other big six. On the negative he has proved alarmingly easy to nullify with a low block defence, hence his shocking record against everyone else. Bottom line, transition or no transition, results are nowhere near good good enough, and he’s shown no aptitude to learn how to address his weaknesses. His in game tactical tweaking, especially use of subs, has been alarmingly poor.

- While he positively identified fitness as being a major cause of our woes last season; there has clearly been something very wrong with our preseason training, with a huge volume of players suffering soft tissue muscle injuries over the opening month of the season. This likely came as a result of overtraining with improper recovery. Trying to do too much too soon. Dan James did his own pre-preseason fitness work, as I heard did Rashford. And I bet we’ll see those two be the most durable across the season.

- His signings have been excellent. Best we’ve had in years. But they’ve come at a cost. Several players have been moved on, all of whom I agree with, yet replacements have not been bought. I’m all for bringing the young players through, but the over reliance on them for squad depth has been preposterous. If we had signed a CM and a forward in summer, we’d be much better off right now. You need depth. Since Ole came in Valencia, Smalling, Darmian, Herrera, Fellaini, Sanchez, and Lukaku have all gone out, and only Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James have come in. Not going to argue with the outs - Herrera could’ve stayed but we’ll never know how much he really wanted for his new deal - and the ins have been great; but the squad is short on numbers now and when you have key injuries you realise how desperately short on quality it is.

Young, Bailly, Rojo, Matic, Lingard, and Mata are not of the required quality to be at the club, and offer next to nothing.

Shaw is hugely injury prone, so we have no reliable left back. In a team where all our width comes from fullbacks.

Fred and Pereira are squad player quality.

Pogba is 100% of our creative threat, and he doesn’t want to be here.

The squad is moving in the right direction but the way it’s being done, you have to be either naive or incredibly stupid not to see that we were always 1-2 injuries away from finishing between 8th and 14th in the league. That’s inexcusably bad planning.

The Macro - The board

- Hired Moyes and let him gut the most successful back room team in British football for Jimmy Lumsden and Steve Round.

- Sanctioned the signing of Fellaini for 4m more than his release clause after pulling the plug on a deal for Thiago.

- Fired a counter attacking coach and replaced him with a methodical possession obsessed coach and let him move out 14 first team players in 11 months.

- Fired said possession based coach after 4th and 5th place finishes and a cup win, and a complete squad overhaul at the cost of 300m; and replaced him with diametrically philosophically opposed coach, ensuring no continuity of desirable player attributes.

- Sanctioned a further complete squad overhaul, moving on another 15+ first team players in 24 months, and at a cost of 400m, to fit the new philosophy.

- Fired this coach 30 months later, and hired a caretaker manager with another diametrically opposed approach, now focused on high pressing and workrate and fast fluid football (supposedly).

- The board preach calm and consideration about making a new permanent appointment. Yet despite assurances no appointment will be made until the close season, jump the gun and offer caretaker manager a permanent contract after a run of excellent results and one famous away win in Europe. Nostalgia reigns.

- Consequently, they sanction another complete squad overhaul and start moving out first team players with gleeful abandon. Players who are not adequately repacked, leaning the squad woefully short and underperforming.

No prizes for guessing where this is going. Results will continue to deteriore. Ole will probably make January if results are just about good enough. Will make one or two desperate signings there, and then get sacked when it’s clear we will finish 8th or lower. The board will then hire yet another new coach, with another contrarian approach and the whole process will begin again. Yet each time declining revenues and financial pressures will make it harder and harder to both fund and attract players.

Bottom line is that we have the worst executive management team in charge of football operations of any major club in the world. The timeline of strategic decisions is so appallingly negligent and lacking any long term strategic intent, that any insightful, ambitious, competent company, would make major changes to both its key personnel and organisational structure.

Anybody who thinks any of this is going to get solved by firing Ole is painfully naive. There is NOTHING that is going to happen positively here, other than a short term upturn in results for a few months or even a season, under a new manager, until the ownership and/or organisational structure of the company changes significantly. Sooner or later any manager is going to be victim of the deep, deep flaws in our recruitment strategy, and invariably starting from scratch with a demoralised squad.

At this point the only way to save the club is for a United and relentless pressure on the Glazers to sell. This would require mass boycotts of games, and merchandise on a scale hitherto unseen, and for all the key figures in United’s recent history to speak out and stand for the cause. I am talking SAF, Sir Bobby, all recent legends. Something to cause global damage to the brand and pressure. And I am afraid NONE of that is going to happen.

Bottom line, the club is currently fecked. It needs massive Infrastructure investment, massive playing squad investment, and a complete football operations overhaul. Until the Glazers are gone, this is an utterly hopeless situation. I am at the point of tuning out. Everything that happens is so alarming predictable, and I would bet my bottom dollar that the exact same pattern that has played out for the last 6 years, will play out for the next however many, until they leave.

There are so many threads on here about sack this manager and hire that one, or sell Lingard and buy Sancho. But frankly we could hire the ghost of Sir Matt Busby, and sign Roy of the Rovers, and we’d still be fecking hopeless. It’s all a moot exercise. You can only rip up the playbook so many times. It takes years to lay down foundations for success, and you may have two or three or even four managers building on those foundations before you get the house you want; but the foundations are there nonetheless. What we’ve been doing is saying “nah, don’t like the way that looks, knock the house down, rip up the foundations, change the elevation of the lot, stick a moat around it, make it 6 stories instead of two..”, and then the next manager comes in and says “nope, none of that works, the entire thing needs to be subterranean.”

It’s truly laughable that this keeps going on, and is being allowed to go on. And our owners are too fecking thick and clueless about football to realise what a fecking terrible CEO Woodward is. “Oh but he’s making them money” I hear some of you mew, but he really isn’t. Growth is stagnant, expenses have been flagrantly high for no return - all because of poor strategic planning -, the asset is under pressure across the board and about to suffer sponsorship penalties for underperforming. The club should’ve have grown hugely in the last six years, instead it’s watched all our rivals catch up to us economically, and lesser clubs surpass us on the field.

It’s a fecking disgrace and I advise you all to stop giving a shit about what happens in the short term.
Really good, and massively comprehensive post , but so very depressing in conclusion.
Please write it again, and next time give us a happy ending ........ in other words Enid Blyton the feck out of it!
 
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Kemizee

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I get the argument that problems run a lot deeper than Ole. But that’s why we need a new manager, Woodward isn’t going anywhere, there is no DOF coming in, there won’t be a great transfer window in the summer or January.

We are only going to see improvement which is driven by a manager, that might be an almost impossible job but it’s only realistic way forward. Keeping Ole in is just hoping it all gets better for no reason other than sticking with him. However it does feel like that’s what club will do, getting dragged inti relegation battle is maybe only thing that will cause him to be sacked.
This has been the bane of the club for years. We have sacked Moyes, LVG and Mourinho which suggests the club can make changes.

The issue is the 'proactiveness' of decisions. We wait for too long to ring changes. Look at City for instance; Fernandinho is beginning to decline and they have brought in Rodri. That's an example of being proactive. If it were us, we would revel in the fact that Fernandinho is a legend, won us many titles and should play on untill his testimonial.

We need people who are capable of making swift decisions when need be. For e.g we should have been tapping up either Poch, Rose or Nagelsmann for next season but we will relax and be comfy with 'Ole at the wheel' untill all of them become unattainable.

Just out of curiosity, can anyone mention a few actions that show our proactiveness with regards running this club in the last 7 years. I swear I can't think of any...
 

Roboc7

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This has been the bane of the club for years. We have sacked Moyes, LVG and Mourinho which suggests the club can make changes.

The issue is the 'proactiveness' of decisions. We wait for too long to ring changes. Look at City for instance; Fernandinho is beginning to decline and they have brought in Rodri. That's an example of being proactive. If it were us, we would revel in the fact that Fernandinho is a legend, won us many titles and should play on untill his testimonial.

We need people who are capable of making swift decisions when need be. For e.g we should have been tapping up either Poch, Rose or Nagelsmann for next season but we will relax and be comfy with 'Ole at the wheel' untill all of them become unattainable.

Just out of curiosity, can anyone mention a few actions that show our proactiveness with regards running this club in the last 7 years. I swear I can't think of any...
I agree and everyone employed by the club is happy with the status quo, on and off the pitch too many are overpaid and have zero accountability.

When Jose was sacked we were told they were bringing in a DOF and looking for right manager. Imagine the difference if they’d brought two talented people in those roles, look what we have instead.

The three year plan is nothing more than keep doing what they are doing and hope everyone buys their excuse. Stick with Ole and hope it works out is all they’ve got so they will cling on longer than any other club would.
 

Holocene

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Ralf Rangnick as a caretaker until the end of the season. Then appointed Director of Football. Hire Paul Mitchell as Head of Recruitment.

In the summer, Pochettino, Rose or Nagelsmann appointed as manager. The latter two are quite risky as they're both inexperienced. Who knows if they can handle the pressure of the United job? But it's only a matter of time until a big club takes a punt on them. I hope it's us.

Bayern are looking for a manager. Arsenal will be soon. And I can't see Valverde lasting that much longer at Barca. We need to have a plan in place otherwise will miss out again on potentially great managers.
 

manunited1919

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I'll be shocked if we don't get anyone in the Jan window - only issue is that you are unlikely to get your first choice players in that window
I wouldn’t be shocked. Not after the summer transfer window we had where we completely ignored our midfield and allowed quality players to leave without replacing them. Lukaku (St), Fellaini (m), Herrera (m), and Fellaini (m) have all left under Ole’s watch, without any attempt to replace them.
 

Tom Cato

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Well yes. Supporters like you allow this.

What we class as legends is subjective to.
When your banner hangs in the stadium, subjective goes out the window.

Would you like the address to a good saltmine so you can roll around in it?
 

Abhinav

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That's just a fancy way of saying that Ole knows, or rather everyone knows because it certainly isn't rocket science, how to set his team up to be David in a bout against Goliath.

What he has no clue about is how to set a team up in any other circumstance. Look at the games against Bournemouth or Newcastle. There was no plan other than give it to James and hope he does something miraculous with it, or just a hopeless long ball punt in Rashford's vague direction. The pressing was also totally disorganized.

You can't say we have the players we need to nullify and play in transition against Liverpool and then say these same players aren't capable of forming some sort of recognisable attacking pattern against Bournemouth. It's almost entirely a matter of the coaching being shit. And also a lot of the decision making being shit. Everyone can see that Lingard or Pereira are terrible number 10s at this level. Why keep playing them there then? Change the fecking system.
Thats what I mean, what you classify as hit and hope, to me looked like a good plan to exploit space behind Rico. Any time AWB had the ball, James would make a run on the outside and Martial & Andreas would drop deep and try and play a ball behind. We should have scored from it too if Andreas & Fred showed any quality. After 20 minutes, B’mouth had to ask Fraser to be tighter to James and help out Rico.
We should have then asked Andreas to find space between Rico and Ake, which sometimes he did but was completely useless with the ball.
On the larger point, scoring against a well coached low block is one of the hardest things to do in Football. All teams bar none struggle against it. The very best have players that can unlock it with a clever pass, a great run or a great finish. Without Pogba, we are completely lacking in any kind of threat in the central areas. Our forwards barring Martial, who is also very inconsistent, are unable to protect the ball in tight spaces and bring others into play. This negates any threat we may have from the wings as the opposition doesn’t have to protect against a central threat and can afford to close the space on the wings.

Ole’s tactics against the low block could definitely be better, but it won’t yield any significant improvement that people think it might. If we have our full squad fit and available, we could get them playing better football with an outside chance of a top 4 finish. Given the midweek games we have to play, it will be a miracle to have a fully fit squad. Thats why I was unhappy with the transfer window as there is no way this squad is achieving any better than a top 6 finish under normal circumstances.
 
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Tom Cato

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I wouldn’t be shocked. Not after the summer transfer window we had where we completely ignored our midfield and allowed quality players to leave without replacing them. Lukaku (St), Fellaini (m), Herrera (m), and Fellaini (m) have all left under Ole’s watch, without any attempt to replace them.
To be fair, you don't know that. And I don't know that. What the manager says publicly and what goes on behind the scenes is not the same thing. Plus we know from tier1 sources that the club DID target both attackers and midfielders, but were unsuccessful in completing transfers. The club opted not to go for 2nd best solutions, but wait until they can get their intended target. (The club has stated as much, Im not making that up)
 

lex talionis

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There are more options than rehiring Mourinho, or hiring Wenger or Allegri.

I agree the next manager we sign should be someone with progressive football that can take us back to the top with attractive football not necessarily proven in the EPL.

It’s not easy since the ideal candidates are currently employed, but that doesn’t mean we should stick with Ole. We could get a takecare manager while we wait for the season to end and get the new manager. Maybe the takecare manager can implement something, with Ole we just know nothing going to change.
What are those options? Big Sam? Capello? Either could be a suitable caretaker manager but the idea of Big Sam being a caretaker manager doesn't sit well with me. Capello could be intriguing, but isn't he in his 70s? I'm just not sure he cannae take the strain.

The one thing I think we all agree here on is that Ole struck gold with his three signings -- Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James. But we also agree that something has gone terribly wrong with his training methods, which have apparently resulted in excessive injuries as well as his tactics against lesser clubs. I'm not sure how much more Big Sam -- let's stick with him as he's the only other manager with real experience in the EPL who's available right now and who would be willing to be a caretaker manager -- could get out of this squad. I respect what Big Sam has done with lesser squads such as Newcastle and West Ham, but this is a very different squad of footballers whom I can't imagine would be happy with Big Sam's brand of football. How exactly does Big Sam get more out of Rashford and Martial than Ole has?

Route One football isn't the United way and certainly isn't the DNA of these particular footballers.

Reading many of the posts here over the last few days it's pretty clear none of us have any good alternatives to Ole to suggest right now. Come May we'll no doubt have a variety of options to work with, but the question right now is whether to sack Ole and, if the answer is yes, who to replace him with. God help us if the best answer is Big Sam as caretaker.
 

Rood

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I wouldn’t be shocked. Not after the summer transfer window we had where we completely ignored our midfield and allowed quality players to leave without replacing them. Lukaku (St), Fellaini (m), Herrera (m), and Fellaini (m) have all left under Ole’s watch, without any attempt to replace them.
Fellaini and his brother?

Obviously you have no idea what attempts were made to replace them

The idea that Ole got rid of these players with no intention of replacing them is pretty stupid
 

SAFMUTD

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What are those options? Big Sam? Capello? Either could be a suitable caretaker manager but the idea of Big Sam being a caretaker manager doesn't sit well with me. Capello could be intriguing, but isn't he in his 70s? I'm just not sure he cannae take the strain.

The one thing I think we all agree here on is that Ole struck gold with his three signings -- Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James. But we also agree that something has gone terribly wrong with his training methods, which have apparently resulted in excessive injuries as well as his tactics against lesser clubs. I'm not sure how much more Big Sam -- let's stick with him as he's the only other manager with real experience in the EPL who's available right now and who would be willing to be a caretaker manager -- could get out of this squad. I respect what Big Sam has done with lesser squads such as Newcastle and West Ham, but this is a very different squad of footballers whom I can't imagine would be happy with Big Sam's brand of football. How exactly does Big Sam get more out of Rashford and Martial than Ole has?

Route One football isn't the United way and certainly isn't the DNA of these particular footballers.

Reading many of the posts here over the last few days it's pretty clear none of us have any good alternatives to Ole to suggest right now. Come May we'll no doubt have a variety of options to work with, but the question right now is whether to sack Ole and, if the answer is yes, who to replace him with. God help us if the best answer is Big Sam as caretaker.

Regarding strucking gold with the three signings, I don't totally agree. While James has been a pleasant surpirse, Wan-Bissaka is playing according to what we knew from him, rock solid defensively but very limited in attack just the way he used to be in Crystal Palace I have not seen any sustancial improvement. Maguire...well he is the world record signing for a defender and I don't even rate him as world top 5, he is of course an improvement on what we have but not even nearly enough to be considered as striking gold.

Regarding the possible new manager I wouldnt take any high profile right now since I think non of them suit us or the way we aspire to play. Allegri is a very defensive coach that would bore us to death, I dont think Mourinho coming back is a good idea specially after the way he lost the dressing room, Wenger I think wouldnt be such a bad idea but it would be very low class and disrispectful to appoint him just as caretaker until the end of the season. Regarding Big Sam, I dont rate him at all, I wouldnt take him as caretaker manager.
 

SAFMUTD

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Fellaini and his brother?

Obviously you have no idea what attempts were made to replace them

The idea that Ole got rid of these players with no intention of replacing them is pretty stupid
Usually well managed clubs have the replacement ready when theyre letting out a player. It wouldnt surprise me we started looking for players after we sold those, specially the sell of Lukaku screams stupidity letting him go in the last days of the transfer window with virtually no oportunity to replace him.
 

Mainoldo

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When your banner hangs in the stadium, subjective goes out the window.

Would you like the address to a good saltmine so you can roll around in it?
What now??

He's a legend as much as Brian Kidd. He's not a legend for being an amazing player. But I like Ole, he's just not my type of United legend. But so what.. call him a legend if you want. I don't care.
 

7even

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What are those options? Big Sam? Capello? Either could be a suitable caretaker manager but the idea of Big Sam being a caretaker manager doesn't sit well with me. Capello could be intriguing, but isn't he in his 70s? I'm just not sure he cannae take the strain.

The one thing I think we all agree here on is that Ole struck gold with his three signings -- Maguire, Wan-Bissaka and James. But we also agree that something has gone terribly wrong with his training methods, which have apparently resulted in excessive injuries as well as his tactics against lesser clubs. I'm not sure how much more Big Sam -- let's stick with him as he's the only other manager with real experience in the EPL who's available right now and who would be willing to be a caretaker manager -- could get out of this squad. I respect what Big Sam has done with lesser squads such as Newcastle and West Ham, but this is a very different squad of footballers whom I can't imagine would be happy with Big Sam's brand of football. How exactly does Big Sam get more out of Rashford and Martial than Ole has?

Route One football isn't the United way and certainly isn't the DNA of these particular footballers.

Reading many of the posts here over the last few days it's pretty clear none of us have any good alternatives to Ole to suggest right now. Come May we'll no doubt have a variety of options to work with, but the question right now is whether to sack Ole and, if the answer is yes, who to replace him with. God help us if the best answer is Big Sam as caretaker.
Sorry but this must be corrected.

Almost everyone who’s connected to United knew about Maguire and Wan Bissaka. No disrespect to Ole but a right sided fullback was on the table long before he was even considered to be our manager. Maguire was a target already in the summer 2018. According to reliable reports it was Ryan Giggs who recommended Dan James.
 

Runaway Sue

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To be fair, you don't know that. And I don't know that. What the manager says publicly and what goes on behind the scenes is not the same thing. Plus we know from tier1 sources that the club DID target both attackers and midfielders, but were unsuccessful in completing transfers. The club opted not to go for 2nd best solutions, but wait until they can get their intended target. (The club has stated as much, Im not making that up)

Then why say anything at all? That would be better than straight up lie in my opinion.
The lenght some of you go is unbelivable, now we cant even trust what he says..
 

Runaway Sue

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What now??

He's a legend as much as Brian Kidd. He's not a legend for being an amazing player. But I like Ole, he's just not my type of United legend. But so what.. call him a legend if you want. I don't care.
This is pretty much how i feel about it as well. Good player, great guy and will always have my respect for all he achieved.
 

Tom Cato

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What now??

He's a legend as much as Brian Kidd. He's not a legend for being an amazing player. But I like Ole, he's just not my type of United legend. But so what.. call him a legend if you want. I don't care.
I mean, this is such a petty thing to say. Just for the sake of being against him as a manager
 

Mainoldo

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I mean, this is such a petty thing to say. Just for the sake of being against him as a manager
It's not petty.. I just find this legend status cringe. He's more of a legend than Andy Cole and he clearly isn't. Infact he's more of a legend than RVN.. It's just ludicrous. But yes if he wasn't a crap manager I wouldn't even probably bring it up.
 

Tom Cato

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Sorry but this must be corrected.

Almost everyone who’s connected to United knew about Maguire and Wan Bissaka. No disrespect to Ole but a right sided fullback was on the table long before he was even considered to be our manager. Maguire was a target already in the summer 2018. According to reliable reports it was Ryan Giggs who recommended Dan James.
Ryan Giggs is the one who recommended Daniel James, to Ole. He's said as much himself.

Maguire and AWB were of course scouted, as were many, many players. MUFC employ over 50 scouts worldwide.

What the guy you're replying to hopefully meant is that they are Oles signings, in the sense that he triggered the purchase, not that he discovered them himself.
 

Tom Cato

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It's not petty.. I just find this legend status cringe. He's more of a legend than Andy Cole and he clearly isn't. Infact he's more of a legend than RVN.. It's just ludicrous. But yes if he wasn't a crap manager I wouldn't even probably bring it up.
So you're just letting your anger bias get the fact that people refer to him as '20LEGEND' get under your skin, because you just don't like him.

Excellent reason to evaluate someones contribution to the club history.
 

JPRouve

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To be honest, while Ole is a fan favorite, I wouldn't call him a legend. Now I know that in general the term is often used in a looser sense than I would.
 

Foxbatt

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People are confusing with Ole the player to Ole the manager. They are two different people. The player was very good while the manager is crap. Clubs should not appoint former players as managers as then the whole focus changes to what the manager was a player while his incompetency as a manager is forgiven.
As for not appointing Big Sam, his Bolton side played very attractive football. Certainly his teams play a lot more attractive football than what we are currently playing.
We will beat Brighton at OT and everyone would jump and say I told you so as if we have won the CL. We should be shocked if we cannot beat Brighton at OT.
Nothing I have seen from Ole has shown me he has any idea how to compete in top football levels.
 

Mainoldo

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So you're just letting your anger bias get the fact that people refer to him as '20LEGEND' get under your skin, because you just don't like him.

Excellent reason to evaluate someones contribution to the club history.
I don’t recall saying I don’t like him!! You might be making that up. Once again there’s no anger, these are my views even before he got the job.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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When your banner hangs in the stadium, subjective goes out the window.

Would you like the address to a good saltmine so you can roll around in it?
Seriously?
Do you know who else had a banner at OT? Please don't make me remind you. Although......he had more PL pedigree than Ole so maybe he is a legend himself?

Forgive me for not taking the behaviour of the OT crowd as being a good judge of manager.
 

Abhinav

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People are confusing with Ole the player to Ole the manager. They are two different people. The player was very good while the manager is crap. Clubs should not appoint former players as managers as then the whole focus changes to what the manager was a player while his incompetency as a manager is forgiven.
As for not appointing Big Sam, his Bolton side played very attractive football. Certainly his teams play a lot more attractive football than what we are currently playing.
We will beat Brighton at OT and everyone would jump and say I told you so as if we have won the CL. We should be shocked if we cannot beat Brighton at OT.
Nothing I have seen from Ole has shown me he has any idea how to compete in top football levels.
No, I don’t support Ole because he was a legend, yes to a small extent I will give more leeway to him than others but that is to be expected. However, I acknowledge the tough circumstances he has to operate under, the lack of apparent alternatives, but most importantly, for the first time in years I am able to relate to his vision for the club. Building a young team with committed players that show a strong spirit and have talent to match the commitment. Playing direct attacking football with fluid strikers, high tempo passing, pressing, fast transitions. It may not always be pretty on the eyes, will definitely not be football for the elites, but its football that I grew up loving and most associate with United. Most of it is not evident on the pitch yet, but I am willing to be patient based on the signings he has made, some of the football that we have played at times, and the vision he has spoken about. If tomorrow it turns out that he has the right intentions but not the skill set to implement his vision, then he will have to go. But I don’t think he has got enough time and support to make the changes yet, there are too many variables with regards to the ownership and the executives for me to say that the poor results are completely because of him.
 

bonothom

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You can't say we have the players we need to nullify and play in transition against Liverpool and then say these same players aren't capable of forming some sort of recognisable attacking pattern against Bournemouth. It's almost entirely a matter of the coaching being shit. And also a lot of the decision making being shit. Everyone can see that Lingard or Pereira are terrible number 10s at this level. Why keep playing them there then? Change the fecking system.
That is exactly what I'm thinking. The only 2 sides to beat Chelsea and Leicester this season in the League are Liverpool and United. If these United players are good enough to get results against the better teams then there is no reason why these same players can not perform against the shit. Failing to beat the shit teams is all directly down to the manager being incapable of setting his team up properly.
 

manunited1919

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Fellaini and his brother?

Obviously you have no idea what attempts were made to replace them

The idea that Ole got rid of these players with no intention of replacing them is pretty stupid
They knew all summer long that Fellaini & Herrera were gone, and that Lukaku was on his way out. The priority all summer long was to replace a centerback and a FB. So it was not just stupid, but completely idiotic to prioritize fixing a functional defense when we knew all summer long that our midfield was barebones and that we would rely on 2 young unproven strikers.
 

Rood

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Usually well managed clubs have the replacement ready when theyre letting out a player. It wouldnt surprise me we started looking for players after we sold those, specially the sell of Lukaku screams stupidity letting him go in the last days of the transfer window with virtually no oportunity to replace him.
Ye buts that's never going to be Ole's fault, that's all on Woodward
 

el3mel

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Fellaini and his brother?

Obviously you have no idea what attempts were made to replace them

The idea that Ole got rid of these players with no intention of replacing them is pretty stupid
We spent 130m on CB and RB alone and instead of paying the money for Longstaff who was quoted at 50m, we decided to take it and spend the majority of our budget on Maguire instead, then our interest in any midfielder died instantly. Yes, we prioritized the defense over midfield and attack, and decided to put our budget into them, which can only be the manager choice at the end. Our budged each summer post SAF never exceeded 150m and last summer was no exception.

Ole decided this to be the way he builds the squad with and he needs to take responsibility for it. Prior to Maguire deal he was saying we are going to get 1 or 2 more signings, one of them ended up being Maguirev. After summer, all his quotes were "we couldn't get the right target" and considering the only players we were linked to post Maguire deal was cheap options like Mandzukic and so, it's safe to come to the assumption he preferred spending the budget on Maguire rather than his earlier option in midfield (Longstaff) and probably tried to get a backup option striker after than and couldn't get Mandzukic so decided to enter the season like that.
 

manunited1919

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To be fair, you don't know that. And I don't know that. What the manager says publicly and what goes on behind the scenes is not the same thing. Plus we know from tier1 sources that the club DID target both attackers and midfielders, but were unsuccessful in completing transfers. The club opted not to go for 2nd best solutions, but wait until they can get their intended target. (The club has stated as much, Im not making that up)
What we do know is that all summer long there was substantial priority given to replacing a centerback and a fullback. The transfer saga for Maguire lasted weeks. The club weren’t going to spend £100 million more in a midfielder and a striker.

How would you feel flying in a transatlantic flight where the senior pilot with 15 years experience walks out to take a job in another airline, and instead of replacing him the airline manager decides the pilot out of flight school can do the job, along with one of the air hostess? Oh, but we hired some premium baggage handlers for a few million bucks to replace the ones we had, as these new handlers know how to throw the bags a better way. After all, the airline experience has to be built from the ground up. Well then, welcome to ManUnited Airlines.
 

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We spent 130m on CB and RB alone and instead of paying the money for Longstaff who was quoted at 50m, we decided to take it and spend the majority of our budget on Maguire instead, then our interest in any midfielder died instantly. Yes, we prioritized the defense over midfield and attack, and decided to put our budget into them, which can only be the manager choice at the end. Our budged each summer post SAF never exceeded 150m and last summer was no exception.

Ole decided this to be the way he builds the squad with and he needs to take responsibility for it. Prior to Maguire deal he was saying we are going to get 1 or 2 more signings, one of them ended up being Maguirev. After summer, all his quotes were "we couldn't get the right target" and considering the only players we were linked to post Maguire deal was cheap options like Mandzukic and so, it's safe to come to the assumption he preferred spending the budget on Maguire rather than his earlier option in midfield (Longstaff) and probably tried to get a backup option striker after than and couldn't get Mandzukic so decided to enter the season like that.
This is all made up bollocks

Ole wanted more players but Woodward/the transfer committee failed him
 

el3mel

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This is all made up bollocks

Ole wanted more players but Woodward/the transfer committee failed him
Anything that you don't want to believe is a made up bollocks, even Ole quotes himself who kept saying during summer we will get 1 or 2 more players pre Maguire :

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-reacts-to-man-utd-1-kristiansund-0

I’m not here to talk about rumours about other team’s players. We’re working on one or two cases. It’s 10 days or so before we start the league and hopefully we can announce a fresh face or two.”
He also said Maguire was his number 1 transfer target :

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-reveals-harry-maguire-was-his-number-one-transfer-target

He also said several times during the season that there's one right target we couldn't get. He also said the next target will be a forward, no mention of midfield.

"When we let Alexis and Romelu go, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that it's forwards that next time we're going to recruit. We're looking for some creativity and goals. But there's no point getting players in that you're not 100 per cent sure about because when you get players in, you need the right ones that are going to stay here for a longer period.

"That's the long-term thinking that we have to show. I can't think 'I need a player because this is my reputation'. No, it's the club. There were strikers (available), but they weren't the ones we wanted. We couldn't get the one we wanted'."
But now this will start the inevitable loop of saying" but not every thing being said is right, he's covering for Ed and just wants to keep positivity" etc, right? Because it is better to believe what we like to which is Ole was blameless for the summer and Ed was the sole responsible for it.

We spent 150m last summer on James, AWB and Maguire. That's what we have been spending every summer post SAF, and you can recheck our spending numbers and you will see that our budget has always been in that range. We were linked to Longstsff and he was quoted at 50m,so we decided to scrap the deal and went on and spent 80m on Maguire as he was Ole's "top target". If he wanted Longstsff that much and the budget was limited why didn't he tell Woodward to scrap Maguire deal, keep Smalling for 1 more season (and it's not like Maguire was going anywhere considering City backed off from the deal) and pay the money for the midfielder or even a forward?

It was his choice to use the money available for him in that way whatever to was a small or big budget and he has to take responsibility for that as simple as that.
 

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Anything that you don't want to believe is a made up bollocks, even Ole quotes himself who kept saying during summer we will get 1 or 2 more players pre Maguire :

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-reacts-to-man-utd-1-kristiansund-0



He also said Maguire was his number 1 transfer target :

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-reveals-harry-maguire-was-his-number-one-transfer-target

He also said several times during the season that there's one right target we couldn't get. He also said the next target will be a forward, no mention of midfield.



But now this will start the inevitable loop of saying" but not every thing being said is right, he's covering for Ed and just wants to keep positivity" etc, right? Because it is better to believe what we like to which is Ole was blameless for the summer and Ed was the sole responsible for it.

We spent 150m last summer on James, AWB and Maguire. That's what we have been spending every summer post SAF, and you can recheck our spending numbers and you will see that our budget has always been in that range. We were linked to Longstsff and he was quoted at 50m,so we decided to scrap the deal and went on and spent 80m on Maguire as he was Ole's "top target". If he wanted Longstsff that much and the budget was limited why didn't he tell Woodward to scrap Maguire deal, keep Smalling for 1 more season (and it's not like Maguire was going anywhere considering City backed off from the deal) and pay the money for the midfielder or even a forward?

It was his choice to use the money available for him in that way whatever to was a small or big budget and he has to take responsibility for that as simple as that.
Again lots of made up stuff based on media rumours and I don't agree with your maths on budgets either

IMO Ole was absolutely right to prioritise defence - it was our weakest point last season. And he said he wanted creativity (which to me means a midfielder) and goals (a forward).

Again Woodward is to blame for delaying the Lukaku deal which meant Ole has to wait until next window to get the replacement, how anyone thinks the timing of all that is Ole's fault is beyond me.
 

el3mel

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Again lots of made up stuff based on media rumours and I don't agree with your maths on budgets either

IMO Ole was absolutely right to prioritise defence - it was our weakest point last season. And he said he wanted creativity (which to me means a midfielder) and goals (a forward).

Again Woodward is to blame for delaying the Lukaku deal which meant Ole has to wait until next window to get the replacement, how anyone thinks the timing of all that is Ole's fault is beyond me.
"Media rumors" :lol: I'm not bringing articles or news. I'm bringing direct quotes from our own managers. If you want to believe what's in your head rather than what our current manager is saying himself, it's really up to you I guess. I bought evidence and you are free to accept them or accept your assumptions instead.

He's free to prioritize his defense over midfield or not, it's his choice and he will have to live up with its consequences without all these excuses about how the board failed him etc. You prioritized signing Maguire over midfield, OK, your choice in how to build the squad and you will be responsible for the results. And no the quote was all talking about strikers and forwards.

As for Lukaku deal, beside the fact he didn't play a single minute in preseason and was always going to leave, it's actually a stupid transfer tactic to wait till you sell your player then go and sign his replacement. It's better to negotiate with a club over their player while you still have your own an holding all your cards in hand so that if the deal failed, you refuse to sell your player and keep him, thus the other club won't bully you, than to go the club after selling your main striker and is desperate to get their player rather let them bully you into overpaying for their player because they know you don't have other choice and will have to pay.
 

lex talionis

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Sorry but this must be corrected.

Almost everyone who’s connected to United knew about Maguire and Wan Bissaka. No disrespect to Ole but a right sided fullback was on the table long before he was even considered to be our manager. Maguire was a target already in the summer 2018. According to reliable reports it was Ryan Giggs who recommended Dan James.
Van Gaal and Mourinho brought in a number of players and for the most part they were mistakes. While it's true Maguire and Wan-Bissaka were known gems, we still have to give Ole some credit for getting it right with both of them, even if you and I saw it the same way. Actually, there was a bit of controversy about the Maguire signing, particularly the price tag for him, but there's no doubt a consensus existed he was a quality CB. As for AWB, there was no quibbling about his price tag that I remember.

As for James, Giggs did rate him highly but really do Ole some credit for going out on a limb with his first signing being a championship player who, at least for some, was little more than a speed merchant and at best, was a project for the future.

I'm only suggesting that Ole's new signings go in the plus column for when rendering a verdict. We already know about what goes in the minus column and I have no quarrel with that. But the real issue at hand, in early November, is whether we sack Ole now and sign a new manager or let him ride out the season and evaluate what needs to get done then. The only way I can endorse sacking Ole right now, in November, is if we have a superior manager ready to go right now, in November. The pickings are slim (I assume everyone here agrees Mourinho and Wenger are no-gos and that Allardyce would be a humiliation), but Allegri is the man who has won major trophies and is available right now. I don't know if he would take the United job, but if he were up for it then let's get it done. But if we had to settle for Big Sam I'd rather ride out the season, when the pool of qualified candidates is broader than it is now.
 

Greck

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No, I don’t support Ole because he was a legend, yes to a small extent I will give more leeway to him than others but that is to be expected. However, I acknowledge the tough circumstances he has to operate under, the lack of apparent alternatives, but most importantly, for the first time in years I am able to relate to his vision for the club. Building a young team with committed players that show a strong spirit and have talent to match the commitment. Playing direct attacking football with fluid strikers, high tempo passing, pressing, fast transitions. It may not always be pretty on the eyes, will definitely not be football for the elites, but its football that I grew up loving and most associate with United. Most of it is not evident on the pitch yet, but I am willing to be patient based on the signings he has made, some of the football that we have played at times, and the vision he has spoken about. If tomorrow it turns out that he has the right intentions but not the skill set to implement his vision, then he will have to go. But I don’t think he has got enough time and support to make the changes yet, there are too many variables with regards to the ownership and the executives for me to say that the poor results are completely because of him.
-Building a young team, agree
-Playing direct attacking football with fluid strikers, high tempo passing, pressing, fast transitions, massively disagree. What you've just described requires a serious amount of coaching talent and I have no idea where people see that in Ole.

He does have great intentions but he lacks the acumen to see it through. He's mediocre to plain bad from a tactical and coaching standpoint. He's really just being given an A+ for having good intentions and buying decent because every other area has been a D to F. The good play isn't just going to come even if he buys 2 Sanchos. I feel like people don't even realise this. The mindset that a signing or 3 is going to unlock a team is really simplistic thinking from our fanbase. Such a signing has to be slotted into a preexisting system for that to happen and Ole doesn't seem to have a clue how to instill one. This is just really frustrating having to enlighten people about this. No doubt our CEO doesn't know this either. Our freaking CEO is a football casual
 
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Andy_Cole

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Again lots of made up stuff based on media rumours and I don't agree with your maths on budgets either

IMO Ole was absolutely right to prioritise defence - it was our weakest point last season. And he said he wanted creativity (which to me means a midfielder) and goals (a forward).

Again Woodward is to blame for delaying the Lukaku deal which meant Ole has to wait until next window to get the replacement, how anyone thinks the timing of all that is Ole's fault is beyond me.
Woodward is mostly to blame but I feel this was naivety/ weakness by Ole. We needed a strong manager to force transfers in the summer, but instead Ole was probably too nice about things.
 

manunited1919

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This is all made up bollocks

Ole wanted more players but Woodward/the transfer committee failed him
It’s easy to blame Woodward. But Fellaini, Lukaku, and Smalling all left because it was made clear to them they didn’t fit the vision.