So we're back to nonsensical 'since permanent' thing to suit an agenda.
Looking at that list nearly every game is one where we were missing key players, or just experimental cup sides.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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Looking at that list nearly every game is one where we were missing key players, or just experimental cup sides.
That stat is irrefutable and absolutely disgraceful.
That is very true.
Yeah sure, beloved club legend being raked over the coals by the clubs own fans because of a poor start to his first season. Surely on outsider would have no second thought about accepting a job like that. All this talk of "pedigree" is pure nonsense, especially among supporters. Whatever you did in the past at a former club means nothing if you dont deliver the goods at the club you are currently employed at.
I can 100% guarantee you that if Poch came in and failed to deliver fans would get on his case right away, and if the club showed the same level of impatience, then yes, good young managers would be hesitant to take the job because its not like Ole has been here for years and it was all rosy when he took over. He would have been the 4th one in 6 years and that is very much starting to look like a poison chalice
And whats the worst thats gonna happen if we stick with Ole out the season? We end up midtable or something and we sack him at the end of the season and the new guy get the summer to assess the squad and bring in new players. The new guy would also know that he would at least, get a full season and preseason to make an impact. Taking over a new club midseason is not ideal for anyone (unless you are Jose). You can implement new tactics and start coaching different things, but at the end of the day you are very much at the mercy of circumstances. We had a shite end to last season and people on here were certainly willing to hold that against Ole so why would it be any different for the new guy?
At the end of the day, its the best squads who tend to do best in the league (shocking right?) and our squad has a lot of glaring holes in it. Back four Maguire have been our best CB by far, even though he has yet the justify his price tag. Lindelof is just not a very good defender and i doubt you would see him in any other top 4/6 club. AWB has been great, but at LB we had to rely on a 34 year old winger and a kid who thank the lucky start seems to be decent
Midfield is even worse. McTomminay has been our outstanding player there this year and hes also just a kid, and despite his amazing attitude, hes still young and learning. Fred has been acceptable the last couple of matches, but up until recently has barely looked like a Championship player. Pereira looks like a poor mans Anderson. The only bright spot is attack where Rashford seems to be having his best season yet, Martial is finally being played in his proper role and James have been amazing for us considering his price and age
The bench options are barely worth mentioning: Lindgaard is a joke, Rojo, Jones and Baily are either injured or making red card challenges and Mata and Matic lost their legs. That leaves Greenwood who again is just a kid.
The fact that all three Ole bought this summer has walked straight into our starting XI and been among our best players this year as well as we have to rely so much on teenagers from the academy speaks volumes. Years and years of piss poor recruitment has left the squad in an utterly dire state and fixing over the course of one window was simply impossible. And before you say "Jose got second" this isnt the same team, pretty far from it.
Excellent post!
How is it nonsensical or suiting an agenda? By the time he was appointed permanent manager, he had been here over 2 months. That's plenty of time to begin to see progress and start to judge him. After all, he got the job based on the apparent progress we had made.
If the progress was sustainable, surely we would have seen more evidence of it over his time here, rather than a new manager bounce at the very start, then progressively getting worse over time?
That's your argument? That those poor performances had absolutely nothing to do with the manager/coaching staff?
You really believe that we have been missing key players for over half of his time here? We should count ourselves lucky that we haven't been relegated, what a marvelous job he has done, having us only mid table instead.
So you think that it is likely that in 2 years time OGS will have made this team into a top 4 safebet and an outside title contender?
Rules out Poch again then. We should ignore his first few years and focus on the last because his 'coaching' is going downhill. That's how this works isn't it?
Yes I do believe injuries have been a key factor in most of our poorer performances. I also believe this is a squad I'd expect to finish around 6th, so when you lose key players it becomes a team I'd expect to see around mid table. Surprisingly we were a close Var decision away from 5th at the weekend.
Honestly i dont know, but regardless of who is in charge we cant get away from the fact that ground up rebuild is needed and its going to take at least 2-3 more years with good transfers and/or good youth development before we look like Manchester United again.
This is very subjective, but honestly i think there are very few players who are good enough in the current squad
Undeniable top 4 quality: DDG, Maguire, AWB, Pogba, Martial, Rashford
Midtable now, might be top quality : Dalot, Fosu-Mens, Tuanzebe, Williams, James, McTomminay, Greenwood, Garner,
Midtable/low table quality, probably wont improve: Fred, Rojo, Lindelof, Chong
Not PL quality: Jones, Young, Shaw(seems harsh, but hes always injured), Mata, Lindgaard, Pereira, Matic
The percentage of wins won't be great in the rebuilding phase, but we're still United, we still instill fear in big teams. It's the little teams that benefit from the lack of consistency, but this is not a finished product yet. One decent striker in January for Ole to sort out some missed opportunities and we're back in business.
Let's not forget, if you're not Pep or Klopp in the league your job is not very safe. This PL season is wild and we can very well be back in it, playing for top 4, winning a cup or 2 in the end. This is not the season to expect big titles and we all knew that coming in, why change the manager for stuff that we knew will be happening? How could have we expected him to turn it around over night? Mourinho was suppose to be the man for overnight success and look where that lead, so lets stick to the manager and build from within with no crazy spending. I've seen enough Di Maria's, Sanchez' and Falcao's in our shirt, time to pick players who want to play for the badge on the shirt and not hire any mercs. It's City way, not our way.
Let's not forget, if you're not Pep or Klopp in the league your job is not very safe. This PL season is wild and we can very well be back in it, playing for top 4, winning a cup or 2 in the end. This is not the season to expect big titles and we all knew that coming in, why change the manager for stuff that we knew will be happening? How could have we expected him to turn it around over night? Mourinho was suppose to be the man for overnight success and look where that lead, so lets stick to the manager and build from within with no crazy spending. I've seen enough Di Maria's, Sanchez' and Falcao's in our shirt, time to pick players who want to play for the badge on the shirt and not hire any mercs. It's City way, not our way.
All given new deals by the manager you trust to lead the rebuilding job.
No we don't. Delusion at it's finest.
Our record against the big teams would say he’s not delusional.
Not much have gone right for Ole after his bright start. I think we need a better manager. Not much progress even if we have started to score a bit more recently.
We can still win the europa league and a better manager could be key for that.
We can still win the europa league and a better manager could be key for that.
As great Liverpool team seems at the moment you know one game that makes them anxious. It's our game. Sure Everton can snatch points from them too by playing ugly but they are afraid of losing against us. The club has that drive. For years under sir Alex we took "small" games for granted, it was our right to be winning them constantly but this consistency is hard to achieve. But we can play well in big matches and that makes us relevant, believe it or not. Consistency will come once the manager has the team he wants and no one in his right mind is saying that this is the team Ole sees for the long term future of the club. Players we're not even playing are costing us a pretty penny and that hinders the business side of the club, but once the deadweight is out of the club and Solskjaer got the names he needs then we can judge. We can keep changing big managers who keep bringing disinterested "stars" to drain money out of us and keep it going until we slowly decay or we can bite the bullet, put up with couple of uneventful seasons until we have the team made up of mainly younger players, some from our own academy and push on from there.
Bravo sir
Jones and Youg were signed in February/March when Ole was caretaker so i really doubt he had the final say there. Lindlof singed a new one this summer but is still the best of a bad bunch.
Mata just got 1 year extensions and just letting him go without replacement would be foolish. Lindgaard and Pereria never should have gotten new contracts, but if we had lost all of those three we literally only would have had 3 midfield players left + Matic who looks to be leaving either way and a bunch of teens
The problem is more that the little teams still see us as their biggest game, the fans are up for it and it's a chance for their players to grab the headlines giving that extra bit of effort. At the same time they know these players are nowhere near our best sides of the past so they've got a big chance of a result, especially in their own ground.
The problem is not the players but Ole.
You know that part of his job, is making his players perform better. No improvement in our football for the last 11 months.
You tell me that Jordan fecking Hendreson is a world class player? No way but a great manager like Klopp gets the best out of him, something that SAF was famous for
Mata signed for 2+1 seasons, he'll still be here next season with Ole's blessings. Pereira and Lingard's contracts weren't ending last summer, he could have kept them for rotational reasons because the squad is thin. But he didn't, he offered them new deals to keep them here for the next years. Good luck getting rid of them on their current wages. As for Jones/Young, if he didn't rate them, he should have told Woody to wait until the end of the season. Fellaini was shipped when he was caretaker too, so clearly his word mattered. Or was this Woodward again? Maybe we should give credit to Ed for the three summer signings too.
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He’s lost of 4 of 19 games as manager this season, with a thread bare squad and an overhyped superstar calling in sick.
There are a few players starting to look impressive like rashford, James, mctominay and greenwood.
Could you imagine pep and Koop having to work with these? Nope they would have both bought bigger and better
Was pretty sure Mata signed a 1 year extension, but it seems you are right. Regarding Young we literally had no other proper fullback at the time so we were kinda forced there. Hopefully Williams can displace him from now, but then and there an extension was the lesser of two evils
Pereira and Lindgaard are clearly not good enough and i think Ole realizes that as well, but as bad as they are we could not simply let them go for free considering our lack of midfielders. Pereira for example has played 12 games already this season so we cant just get rid of him without getting in a new one. Hopefully both of them are moved on soon enough, and maybe some turkish club would be willing to take them
Jones i cant undertand. We had cover there so he should have just been let out to pasture
If we get a decent midfielder and a striker in Jan we will be ok for the remaining games...but that wont happen imo.
Summer. Pogba will be gone. So we will need two midfield players.
Summer. Pogba will be gone. So we will need two midfield players.
Pereira and Lingard could still be in the team without the new deals and be given an extension if, come next summer, our prime targets were still unattainable. Mata should have been given yearly extensions instead of 2 years. The way he dealt with these players goes against the "clearing out the deadwood" and the "wait to see the squad in three years" narratives. In three years time, all the players you deemed not good enough will still be here. By his decision. I'll be fair and give him the credit he deserves for putting faith in Williams but we can't expect the academy players to provide solutions to all our problems. By the way, i'm not having a dig at you (better to clarify it nowadays), it just seemed weird to read your valuation because i know you have faith in Ole for setting us for future success.
This entire forum is completely ignoring how Rashford is on pace to TRIPPLE his season best output. Like come on, jesus. If people are going to give OGS hit for performance, then he should get credit for everything that goes right as well.
Go on, someone praise his work with Rashford. Preferably one of the doomsayers.
Hopefully not
The thing is though, when a player is at the end of their contract the selling club is often at a disadvantage if the buyer knows the player(s) is not part of their future plans so they can push the price down. Since Jones and Lindgaard are English, there would always be someone who is interested in them (i hope
) and Pereria could probably be interesting for some mid/low table La Liga teams.AFAIK Jones and Lindgard is at 75k/week while Pereira is at 30k/week, much more than they deserve, but not impossible to get rid of either
Just to be clear, if Ole is managing us next season and is still regularly starting Pereira he is not only unfit to manage us, he is also clearly insane. But even as bad as these players are i think its a bad idea to run down their contracts before we have identified an replacement, and selling them is always preferable to letting them go for free
Your preaching to the converted here brother, no manager does much better than we are with squad.
People will blame Ole for us having a thin squad, it needed clearing out and I’m fine with that getting done sooner than later like he did. Ed should have signed a replacement for Lukaku and a new midfielder, then I honestly believe the results would have been considerably better.
Ole haters just brazenly ignore the positives that are there, positives that previous ‘better and established’ managers failed to implement. I won’t list them, I’ve done it too many times already.
They don’t like the narrative that one of Uniteds legendary strikers could have possibly improved another striker.
They prefer a former translator or former defender like poch to improve youth team players.
We can agree that there is a need for a radical rebuild of everything in the club. But what if the said rebuild is based on the wrong premises? What if the players brought in are unsuited to play the type of football that is most likely to yield success? What if the people in charge of the rebuild are unable to fathom that being able to retain possession is fundamental for being succesful long term?
By "look like Manchester United again", do you mean CL and EPL title contenders? Or playing a specific way?
Undeniable top 4 quality? Playing what type of football? BTW we will struggle to get top 4 playing the way we currently do, which is a style that DDG, AWB and Rashford are best suited to. PP will not be here next season unless we pay him stupid money, AWB will only be top 4 quality if he improves his attacking deficiencies, Maguire is not close to being as good as half of the fans thinks he is, Rashford struggles without space to take advantage of and Martial is not reliable over time.
Dalot, TFM, Williams, McT, Greenwood and Garner are not close to being mid-table EPL quality at this moment.
I just don't see any signs in the style of play, the players brought in during the summer, the decision to not buy a midfielder("we could not get any of our two targets" or "we could not find a suitable player with the right mentality" is bullshit), no indications that players are coached well or improving on their weak areas to give me any sort of belief that we are going in the right direction or that OGS and his coaching staff are the right people. Just compare OGS post-match interview and analysis to many of the other managers in the premier league and you will see his simplistic (mis)understanding of football.
Well the defender had a striker scoring 20 league goals a season. Maybe he learnt abit from Crespo and Batistuta (proper strikers)
Well the defender had a striker scoring 20 league goals a season. Maybe he learnt abit from Crespo and Batistuta (proper strikers)
So were comparing a striker valued at £200m to Rashford now? Ole cant cut a break from you can he.
He was a £10m striker when Poch got hold of him. Plus Rashford is around £100m plus if anyone wanted him.
Wow I’d sell rashford along with Pogba then, we will be rich again soon pal.
Whose next?
Maguire but we've probably lost a good £20m off him already.
Well that’s no good, James has looked good - £50m?
Who's paying that Everton? It definitely wont be any of the big clubs in Europe.
James will be worth more than fifty by the end of next season, but let’s stop selling off the family jewels
James will be worth more than fifty by the end of next season, but let’s stop selling off the family jewels
Probably if Poch gets a hold of him
.Yeah we'll be left with the kids!!
No other manager could do better than the squad we currently have?
A coach like Nagelsmann or Rose given the opportunity that Ole had when Mourinho was sacked, would've had the time to assess and spend the funds in a much more economical way, and we would've seen a very different look to the team right now. They probably would've just raided the German Bundesliga for talent and we would've had a competent back line, midfield and attack with change to spare.
So can we please stop with 'another manager couldn't do any better with this squad' because with the money that was made available, he wasted it on two players that are not even among the best in their respective positions for world record sums. And inturn neglected the midfield and attack and we're as a consequence sitting in 10th place in the league.
A coach like Nagelsmann or Rose given the opportunity that Ole had when Mourinho was sacked, would've had the time to assess and spend the funds in a much more economical way, and we would've seen a very different look to the team right now. They probably would've just raided the German Bundesliga for talent and we would've had a competent back line, midfield and attack with change to spare.
So can we please stop with 'another manager couldn't do any better with this squad' because with the money that was made available, he wasted it on two players that are not even among the best in their respective positions for world record sums. And inturn neglected the midfield and attack and we're as a consequence sitting in 10th place in the league.
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