Yes!
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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Why did Leeds get relegated?
I like points like these because there just so passion driven is funny. So you are expecting to win an argument by believing a manager who relegated Cardiff and previous job experience is Molde to save your arguement?
It’s like having the option to pick your favourite Manchester United striker of all time to lead your attack and you pick... Ole Gunner Solskjaer
While I'm happy we won, the long term picture doesn't change game to game. We had good intensity/work rate/pressing today but in general we don't play with a coherent style. As was said above we will yo yo and end up somewhere between 8th and 10th as we cont to drop points against teams like Villa/Newcastle etc...
If ranieri could of course
No longer an if but when
That was a very good performance tonight. But until we play like that more often than not, I'm still in the Ole Out camp.
wow
League is very different these days. 90+ points are needed to even be in the conversation.
Deary me
Ole in! I'm doing the Ole cokey.
I'm not saying he'll win the prem in a year, just a lot more stable playing staff wise as well as better confidence.
Ole will definitely hope to win over a few doubters if he can string a few wins together and still hold out hope that he would look outside of Britain for some signings if the board do decide to give him time to turn it around. Yes it's good to have some players from these shores in your team just be careful that you don't overdo it.
Thought the performance in the first half against Spurs was similar to the one last year,big difference being that we actually scored this time.
Felt Greenwood did decent tonight and makes you wonder why we didn't try him up front when Martial was injured.
The players quite clearly didn't need any motivation to get one over Jose and prove him wrong. Let's see if they can find that same motivation in the lesser games.
Thought the performance in the first half against Spurs was similar to the one last year,big difference being that we actually scored this time.
Felt Greenwood did decent tonight and makes you wonder why we didn't try him up front when Martial was injured.
The players quite clearly didn't need any motivation to get one over Jose and prove him wrong. Let's see if they can find that same motivation in the lesser games.
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He's shown he can mix it with Klopp, Poch, Mourinho etc. Obviously we've a really weak squad right now but who's to say he couldn't challenge in the future with a better squad. Why not?
It shows what the potential ceiling is with the current squad. Like any manager -- experienced, successful or otherwise, the question is whether they can extract that out of their squad on a consistent basis. And that's a crap shoot -- even the current top 3 most successful Prem manager ever failed.
So you would have thought that for all those ''grass is greener' types in the forum, they would have learnt their lessons..... but noooo. There is always the other pasture of grass over across the other valley for these folks.
Ole has a plan and its clear to see. The only question is whether he can execute it out and/or whether he will be supported by the board.
United reminds me of Greece during that wierd euro campaign. They won the tournament cause they sat deep and hit back with quick counters but that proved to be a fluke and they were a 1 trick pony
We're hardly like that. We dont really sit back, not until later on if we have the result, but definitely not in first halves. We're a good team defensively who has no depth and due to that struggles to change the game how we want to, and so far have struggled to break down teams when we need to take the initiative. I'm going to say a big part of that is on not having Pogba, and the backup to him being.... Andreas Pereira. It's not bad, but there are games more suited to us than others. With a fully fit 11, or at least a fully fit midfield, we'd be far better IMO. You cant rely on a fully fit team of course, but that's why we need to reinforce the squad. With that, I think we'd see a lot more out of us.
Saying that, I think it's funny that Ole is essentially a very pragmatic/defensive coach, at least with us. It's like everyone expected him to be attacking, not the case really. Even with all fit, I think we'd be decent at best going forward, but nothing like Lampard and Chelsea right now for example. Hes basically just like Mourinho with his tactics, but without being a dick head (and without needing to use giants everywhere).
With respect, that's fecking stupid. We have been the better team in several of those games. Trying to compare it to Greece is typical of your posting style. Daft.
It really isn't. We got 1 tactic and we stick to it irrespective of what may. What surprised me is Maureen really. He knew United struggles against a solid defensive block that drops deep and yet he gave us amply space for our strikers to roam. I guess his urge to humiliate us took over his better judgement
The tactic might vary a little but we are a 1 trick pony. Give us space and we are lethal. Defend deep and we are pretty clueless
To a degree. We've scored plenty of goals over the last couple months. There's actually a pretty noticeable improvement in our ability to create chances. Sometimes teams improve. Its called coaching.
Add an actual creative midfielder like Pogba and it might be even better.
Sack when Liverpool (mathematically) wins the league.
Tottenham's game aside I find United to be tactically naive. A weak pool of players, weak tactics and poor coaching (Shaw and Lukaku becoming fat while with us, a record level of injuries etc) are our major weaknesses in my opinion
I still say Ole shouldn't have been appointed on a permanent basis,however if he bucks the general trend and can turn around a losing situation he deserves respect for that.
I don't think you have a clue about tactics but I'll discuss your other points with you if you want.
A weak pool of players? Agreed. We have an absolutely crazy lack of depth in midfield and up front.
Poor coaching? I disagree. Several players are improving such as Rashford, Fred, Martial, James. as is our general play and chance creation.
Poor medical department? Adding this because I think this is what you meant. Agreed. We definitely get more injuries than we should.
- Regarding tactics. We've got 1 effective way of playing and if plan A doesn't work, then we can't really come out with a solid plan B or plan C to still win a game. Also most of our substitutions choices seem weird for most of the time
- Coaching. James had been good since day 1. Actually he was more explosive in the first month or so then he is now. Same with Maguire and AWB who were better in the early part of season then they are now. Fred has improved but he could only get better not worse. The youngsters had improved (I am actually surprised you left McT out since he was among those who improved the most) but that's expected since they are young players who will improve with more game time. Meanwhile the likes of Lingard, Lindelof, Shaw, Matic, Mata, Young and co had regressed big time.
I don’t think I would say that he is crap. I know why thing are like they are. It is same as I don’t think Mourinho or vanGaal are crap managers.
No need for post like this. They don’t agree with some of us but we should not be insulting eachother. If I understood your post correctly.
Getting relegated with Cardiff is not only Ole fault. He came in the middle of the season to something like worse squad ever in Premier League history.
Leeds got relegated because they wanted success to quickly. Without having founds for that. To put it easy.
I think thats a personnel issue more than anything. Rashford and James are lethal on the counter, but dont have the skills to get past packed defenses and in midfield we really dont have anyone that can pick locks with an amazing pass. Martial and Purple Patch Lindgard at times can weave past players, and Mata used to do it, but right now the lack of good dribblers and short range passers make it incredibly difficult
May be knee jerk, but Jack Grealish (or someone like that) + a big CF like Haaland or a superbly technically gifted attacker can go a long way. Midfielders like Grealish who goes past players and invites pressure on them creates loads of space for others and we need a presence in the box or someone who only need 2 yards to create a shooting opportunity for themselves
Yes and no. Sure lack of personnel doesn't help however Sir Alex worked in worse situations and still came out with great acts of brilliance. Do you remember that historical win against Arsenal with the twins on the flanks? What about winning the EPL with an ageing lot and Cleverley in midfield? Top managers do that
Id take Grealish, Haaland and Maddison at a heart beat. Unfortunately we are talking about a 230m worth of talent here. Under such circumstances then we should consider cheaper players like Milik, Eriksen, Tonali and Can
Come on, Fergie never had a squad as weak as this one in recent times. Those Fergie teams might have had some mediocre players in them, but they were usually surrounded by top quality/world class talent. Now its more a case of we having a couple of top quality players surrounded by mediocre ones. Rashford has been immense this season and if he continues his upward trajectory he might become one of those players that win games on their own one day.
Remember we used to have Cantona, Scholes, Giggs, Berbatov, RvN, RvP, Rooney, Ronaldo and the list goes on. And i am not talking about winning the PL here, just having players with that X-factor who can pull a rabbit out of a hat and turn a scrappy 1-1 into a 2-1 with some individual brilliance.
He never had such a weak squad but there again no one is expecting Ole to win the EPL either. However this post is not about trophies but more about how the manager can think outside the box and get points. Ole's approach is quite rigid and he constantly get outsmarted by average managers with teams which are as good/worse then ours
In
It's all good having a long term plan but you don't write off the current season under that pretext. Missing out on the CL again will only make executing the plan more difficult.
Lingard has been injured.
Shaw has been injured
Matic, Mata and Young are old men. Of course they are regressing.
Lindelof is reverting to type. Hugely overrated player. Almost got the impression he was being praised last year to slight Smalling as much as anything.
Sir Alex like most top managers could adapt his tactics to accommodate them for ageing players.
Yet he consistently "outsmarts" supposed top managers so this goes well beyond tactics. I find it hard to believe he has figured out the likes of Klopp and Jose, yet cant handle the game plans of Sheffield, Soton and Villa
We put 3 past Sheffield who by then was sitting very deep in their own half, so its not like parked busses are kryptonite either. All of our games vs this big team this year we have been up for it and showed some real fight, where as vs the smaller teams we have seemed very complacent at times. In almost all of those matches vs the smaller teams we have dropped points from a winning position, so its not so much a problem in attack as it is in defense.
The amount of soft goals we have conceded this year when leading is a real concern. Take those out and we suddenly would be much higher up the table
They'd still be regressing though. None of those players have a future here and rightly so.
Since when sacking manager online is the most discussed thread on this forum? Maybe that says something about nowadays' mentality of fans. Gainning a bit sense of power.
United have been poor in general in terms of results and the position of the table. That is one aspect of the season up to this point. However, that is just part of it. To give a fair verdict, we might need to examine the whole picture.
Two draws against two newly promoted teams? Bad enough. Even though there were extenuating injuries and lack of depth in the midfield, I still do not think it is acceptable.
Apart from that, Ole has done a tremendous job in many ways.
First of all, the investment in market has been judicious and shrewd. Three brilliant players, with Manchester United mentality. I was really happy Maguire asked people to judge his decision of joining United five years later; Bissaka posted "Please believe in the process" after today's game; not to mention Daniel James.
Ole's insistent faith in our academy and young players. Rashford and Mactominay have proved Ole's right by transforming themselves as leaders of this United team. I cannot be happier about that. With all the young academy players coming through, if you are real hard core United fan, you should be undoubtedly elated. This summer, several real bright young kids joined our academy. I assume that was part of Ole's strategy. He is really thinking about the future for this club.
Finally, after almost half a season, we have seen the weak points of the squad. With a proper investment in the next one or two windows, we can be back on track. That is enough to be optimistic.
The other point I should not fail to highlight is Ole is addressing the issue of the bloated salary structure that should be a real concern at this club. It is a real tough one. If not dealt with properly, it will threat the existence of Manchester United as an elite club.
Some criticsms are too cheap, given the magnitute of the challenge Ole faces at the moment. He is doing a tough job, and he is doing it fantastically.
United have been poor in general in terms of results and the position of the table. That is one aspect of the season up to this point. However, that is just part of it. To give a fair verdict, we might need to examine the whole picture.
Two draws against two newly promoted teams? Bad enough. Even though there were extenuating injuries and lack of depth in the midfield, I still do not think it is acceptable.
Apart from that, Ole has done a tremendous job in many ways.
First of all, the investment in market has been judicious and shrewd. Three brilliant players, with Manchester United mentality. I was really happy Maguire asked people to judge his decision of joining United five years later; Bissaka posted "Please believe in the process" after today's game; not to mention Daniel James.
Ole's insistent faith in our academy and young players. Rashford and Mactominay have proved Ole's right by transforming themselves as leaders of this United team. I cannot be happier about that. With all the young academy players coming through, if you are real hard core United fan, you should be undoubtedly elated. This summer, several real bright young kids joined our academy. I assume that was part of Ole's strategy. He is really thinking about the future for this club.
Finally, after almost half a season, we have seen the weak points of the squad. With a proper investment in the next one or two windows, we can be back on track. That is enough to be optimistic.
The other point I should not fail to highlight is Ole is addressing the issue of the bloated salary structure that should be a real concern at this club. It is a real tough one. If not dealt with properly, it will threat the existence of Manchester United as an elite club.
Some criticsms are too cheap, given the magnitute of the challenge Ole faces at the moment. He is doing a tough job, and he is doing it fantastically.
We are on the right track. First time I've felt that way since SAF was here.
Hence why the Greece national team comparisons. We are good against those who expects the whole 3 points against us. They attack, leaving space at the back which in turn allow our only plan to work. Things get tough with teams who don't mind sharing points with us. Ole struggles big time against those as he has no plan against them
But if its parked buses and just that, we are back again to the personnel issues. As i said, without Pogba out we dont have CM's who are comfortable dribbling and inviting pressure on themselves so that often leaves our attackers in 3v9 situations or something like that. Considering both our first pick wide forwards are way more suited to fast paced attacking versus slow build up play we completely lack the tools to dismantle those kind of low blocks. Martial can weave past 2-3 players and get a shot off on his good days and Mata (if he was 7 years younger) would have helped a lot, but we simply dont have many players that are comfortable operating in tight spaces
Like i said, a big strong CF like Haaland that can hold of and turn away defenders and a creative CM with some trickery up his sleeve would help a lot, but i think its a bit simplistic to say its just a matter of tactics
I suspect that's already been factored in. Thus the draconian cost cuts ie chopping the deadwood starting with Mophead a year ago and then the summer and our small net spend -- all the while Woodward is able to manage the bottom line and the financial goals for the shareholders.
They must have looked at the squad 12 months ago and started planning. How good is that squad in terms of challenging and compared that squad with the competition?
Then Ole/Phelan presents a plan or more likely two or three options of their plans going forward. Then Woodward has to balance each plan against first and foremost, his financial obligations.
The agreed option chosen is a bit like fixing up an old car -- with a budget. First things first is for now, is to strip off the current paintwork and rust down to the bare metal for the entire car. But since there is a limited budget this time, Ole has to choose the parts he thinks needs to get fixed first ie defense.
On the next visit to the shop/transfer window, he will choose another part of the car which I suspect will be midfielders and maybe punt on an attacker now that we see how thin out squads are plus the fresh academy kids have not all taken up any starting 11 positions there (unless you consider McT a fresh academy kid.)
Eventually, when we can afford it (ie balancing Woodward's financial obligations to the shareholders and the investment they are willing to punt ie trust of Ole's approach & execution) we will get some blings and accessories that will make it some sort of boy racer/feck you car.
This is how I would do it if I was Woodward -- a more mature, gradual step by step approach to a re-build rather than his initial years of blinded by the star managers and players. Knee jerk approach.
And for those who hope to see the latest shiny bling manager come in, I highly doubt it.
It would be the career nail in Woodward's coffin. I see Woodward's future tied in with Ole's. He has lost too much money with the past managers not to be looked upon poorly by the shareholders. Three feck-ups in the last seven years will be too much for the owners to handle.
Woodward is also using Ole, club legend who has some political/emotional capital with some of the fans ie buying time to see through this step by step approach of not just the footballing philosophy but also the ability to do a root & branch restructuring/modernising of the club.
I feel the same. Hope the board thinks in a similar way.
Ole needs support from our fans, not jeers or ridiculing.
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