Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Dec9003]

Spoiler: Post

I am genuinely curious as to why, of all the managers that we've had since the great man left, that Ole is the hill that so many of our fans choose to die on.

A lot of people have pointed to his transfers as some kind of strong point, but for a bit of comparison let's look at Jose. I am in no way a fan of Jose, and indeed I was one of the most vocal Jose out posters when I felt his time here came to an end. James, Maguire and AWB. Dan James, fair enough, we were far more likely to get a Perisic or Willian than him, but then he was recommended to us by Giggs, he wasn't some find by our scouting team. Jose wanted Maguire last year, and AWB, arguably the most defensively accomplished RB in the league, he seems like exactly the kind of player Jose would have wanted (Lest we forget his two defensive signings for us were both young players, before anyone mentions the age argument). Looked at from this angle, then at least two of the three transfers Ole is praised for are players the miserable one would have wanted as well.

The style of football is genuinely not any better than under any of the previous managers. For me at least, I don't see any signs of what he's trying to do. During the initial few games when he came in I thought that was the style of football he was trying to implement, but then after an entire summer with the team, our style of play couldn't be further from that, and just overall we look aimless. As I said in the Arsenal post match thread, we're just a nothing team. We don't really try to do anything in particular on the field, it's just sort of aimless scrimmaging and hoping for a moment of magic.

Then there's the issue of the board. Sure, our board have their issues, certainly, but the board had issues when the previous managers were around as well. Didn't we all agree that those managers were crap during their time here, in addition to the board being crap? How then, has it become the case with Ole here that the board is crap, so we don't know what Ole is capable of, and this is all on the board?

"He loves the club/Genuinely cares for the club" Why is this relevant when assessing him as a manager? How many of the most successful managers in the last fifty years have been people who loved the club they were successful at? Perhaps Pep and Zidane, both of whom were exceptional right from the off, but other than them, is this really something we should be considering when looking at what our manager is doing? Certainly I don't think Sir Alex loved United or genuinely cared for United when he came down from Aberdeen.

On paper, there isn't much that needs to be said. Ole has been a manager for around a decade now, and on paper he's the worst/second worst manager we've had in the post SAF era, so it's not like he has any sort of CV for us to point towards.

This has turned into a bit of a ramble, but in the end, from my point of view at least, there's absolutely no reason that OGS should be the manager, of all the managers we've had, that we say we're going to back beyond any shadow of a doubt and see what happens. He's the manager with the most doubt hanging over his head, after all. If we were going to do that, then why didn't we stick with Jose?

Spoilered the post because it's a long one and there's a lot to unpack.
Will spoiler my reply as well, since it will probably be quite long.

Spoiler: Reply

Point one: Transfers.
Some of what you've said I do agree with.
Jose clearly wanted Maguire and likely would have had an interest in AWB.
Joses problem, and every manager other than Solsjkaers problem is that they wasted a lot of money.
Take Jose for example, it's easier to discuss his good transfers than his bad ones.
Bad: Mkhy, Sanchez, Lukaku?, Bailly, Fred?, Matic.
You could make a serious argument that Jose squandered a great deal of the money he recieved at United, and based on the reports during his final summer with us, he may have wasted even more.
Solsjkaer on the other hand has made obvious signings. The kind of players that slot right in and boost the side.
He also seems to have a better grasp of what signings we need than other managers, ensuring that the profile of the player is correct, something we haven't done in a long time.
Take Lukaku as a bad example, a talented striker, reliable goalscorer, terrible mentality.
Whereas Daniel James fits the club perfectly. Young, talented, exciting, dedicated, ready to make a name for himself at Old Trafford.
It would be fair to point to the positions we didn't bolster in the summer, but Solsjkaer has said himself numerous times that the players we let go need replacing. I genuinely believe he will get his next few transfers right, as he has done so far.
I think it's worth looking at his involvement of the youth players too. Greenwood has had a great start to the season, Chong has struggled, but been included, Axel looks a really good prospect etc.
Solskjaer has blended the youth players into the first team really well so far, which along with his transfers shows that he is improving the side. It's a work in progress, but the evidence is there, and many of us are excited/encouraged by that.
Point two: style of play.
I've seen a lot of people criticise us this season for not having a style of play, it isn't something I agree with.
In my opinion, the ideals that Solsjkaer wants to build his team around include:

• Winning the ball back high up the pitch, he's mentioned this, we've seen it happen, 100% part of his plans. (Press)
• Be more comfortable playing the ball out the back - a big change from Jose, something we've seen cause us problems this season as we get used to playing the ball between the defenders and midfielders to advance up the pitch. The signing of Maguire makes sense with this in mind.
• Improve distance covered - something that Ole has been mocked for on here. He's said publicly that he wants us to cover more distance during matches than under Jose, which makes sense seeing as he sees pressing as something much more important. Under Jose I'm pretty sure we ran the least? Or very close to running the least out of everybody.
• Pace in the forward line - this makes sense seeing as we removed Lukaku and Alexis, two players who were once quick but looked slow and laboured during their time at United.
• Attacking - put in balls from outwide or advance into the box to find a pass - this to me seems to be the primary way we want to generate chances on goal, we want to win the ball back high up the pitch, advance into the box, put a ball in or make an attempt on goal. This probably explains the penalties we've been getting, I don't have the stats to back it up, but we seem to spend more time in and around the box than we did under previous managers.

I believe these make up a decent part of what we're trying to do as a club at the moment, I'd like to look through his interviews as no doubt Ole himself has explained his philosophy better than I could, but it's late and I'm on my phone.
We don't have a strict structure when we attack, which I think is why people say we're under coached, but there are examples of top managers who don't have strict ideas when attacking. Bielsa at leeds is a good example, he has ideas of how he wants his team to play, but in the final third his tactics are very lax, instead relying on the players to find openings and opportunities.
Seems that way to me, anyway.
Everything after the first two paragraphs:
Your other points I don't feel need as much discussion, I simply just disagree with a lot of it.
I've never heard someone say Ole loving the club means he should be kept on. If anyone has, I agree with you, doesn't make much sense to me. You'd surely be unlikely to hire a manager that doesn't like the club, else they wouldn't want to come in the first place.
As for not using the board as a defence of Ole, I can see where you're coming from, but I look at it in a different way to you.
In the way that you see it perhaps as an illogical way to just try to defend Ole, I see it more as people starting to wise up/grow tired of the way the club has handled the team post Fergie. I think it's a good thing that we're willing to pick obvious faults with Woodward and his cronies.
They've mismanaged the club in an embarrassing way, bringing in managers with a wide variety of philosophies and transfer preferences, leaving us with a mess of a squad in dire need of a reset.
Your final point, in which you say Ole is the manager with the most doubt, I don't neccesarily agree either.
Moyes perhaps had less doubt, because it became very clear very quickly that he job was too big for him.
Van Gaal people had doubts right the way through, for his style of play as much as his results.
Mourinho is just someone people don't like. I like him, but a lot of united fans hate the guy, and I can see why.
We couldn't realistically stick with Jose at the end. He was basically sabotaging the season because he didn't get his own way, and it grown "toxic" for lack of a better word.
All in all I hope this gives you and anyone else who bothers to read this some perspective of someone who likes Ole as our manager, and believes that he's taking us in the right direction.

 

[Un4givableB]

Great, great post. You sum up really well the strange, utterly illogical insanity that is over Utd and much of it's fanbase.

Also, 'scrimmaging' is a lovely word...

He 100% right.

I never wanted Ole appointed because l knew he wasn't up to the job and not because I'm Mystic Meg but because of his record as a manager, 10 years enough time to make a judgement of someone's ability.
I wouldn't have been happier if we appointed Steve Bruce or Bryan Robson both Utd greats & miles better managers than OGS but still not good enough. Ryan Giggs would be harder to judge because the jury is still out on him.

I think OGS has found his level and that's managing in Norwegian football and we will be looking within 6/12 months.



''Scrimmaging'' a yank I'm thinking.

 

[ABTEK]

What's the point of sacking him when there are no long term candidates available atm? For good or worse everyone should be behind Ole.

 

[Strelok]

You can be absolutely sure of the posters who support Ole despite this shitshow going on for more than 6 months and will do even if he gets this team relegated, won't be even half as supportive with a new manager, like say Allegri, even if he's miles better than him which is pure hypocrisy & idiocy. They won't make stupid excuses for him they do for Ole and will moan at every opportunity to "justify" Ole even if he was way out of his depth. They won't be willing to give him time and their "top red" approach will suddenly dissappear. We saw this with Van Gaal after a clown like Moyes and will see it with a new manager after Ole.

Reality is most people have their favourites and they'll twist and turn the facts to suit their agenda even if they know deep inside it's not the truth. Ole's not the man to take this club forward and also his staff are clueless as him. The sooner we get rid of this amateur management team and get competent personnel the better for the club.

Yeah let's sack him and get someone else. But who ? Me I'd strongly recommend our Keano.

Within a month he'd kill half of the squad, Ed and probably the Glazers too. Everyone should be happy then, problem solved

 

[steve.crowford]

Solskjaer reactions in match against Arsenal||HD||2019||
http://bit.ly/2nzbAYN

 

[Wolff]

Good post. Never liked Jose's reign at United, but Ole seems to be utteely clueless here.

It wasn’t really a good post at all. There wasn’t a single point on football as a trade. People keep harping on about this and that. Sentiment this and sentiment that. Football management is actually a trade, and there is a science behind it. The only difference managing a small club and a big one is handling expectations, that’s it. It is so obvious many posters on here never kicked a football in their life, and certainly never going through a transition in football philosophy. It is not as easy as some people think. It’s like having a wank with your left hand, it will take some getting used to. How about doing just like Ferdinand said, let this unfold and run it’s course? You either get to play football exerts at the end of it, or looking like complete idiots.

 

[redshaw]

Watch this press conference at 8 mins and 6 seconds.

It was the only good question asked ahead of the Europa league game and Oles shit answer says it all. Unfortunately he doesn't have a clue.

He's lost the vigour and forthrightness he had at the start. He had a clear mind when he came what United should be after watching Jose's shit show.

 

[Water Melon]

It wasn’t really a good post at all. There wasn’t a single point on football as a trade. People keep harping on about this and that. Sentiment this and sentiment that. Football management is actually a trade, and there is a science behind it. The only difference managing a small club and a big one is handling expectations, that’s it. It is so obvious many posters on here never kicked a football in their life, and certainly never going through a transition in football philosophy. It is not as easy as some people think. It’s like having a wank with your left hand, it will take some getting used to. How about doing just like Ferdinand said, let this unfold and run it’s course? You either get to play football exerts at the end of it, or looking like complete idiots.

I guess I played footy at much higher level than you, and I fully agree with what the poster says. Ole has shown absolutely nothing to suggest that he is good enough to manage a PL team, let alone Man Utd. He has fecked it up big time here. He really is clueless at this level and results are showing it. His past experience also shows that he is quite an average manager.

 

[Wolff]

I guess I played footy at much higher level than you, and I fully agree with what the poster says. Ole has shown absolutely nothing to suggest that he is good enough to manage a PL team, let alone Man Utd. He has fecked it up big time here. He really is clueless at this level and results are showing it. His past experience also shows that he is quite an average manager.

Think you just proved you have not. And not the coaching credentials either. I didn’t mean on Fifa, you would probably beat me there..

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Watch this press conference at 8 mins and 6 seconds.

It was the only good question asked ahead of the Europa league game and Oles shit answer says it all. Unfortunately he doesn't have a clue.

What do you expect him to say?

 

[Water Melon]

Think you just proved you have not. And not the coaching credentials either. I didn’t mean on Fifa, you would probably beat me there..

I would probably beat you on a football pitch and having played for Under 18s of my NT and being coached by some pro managers, I am sure to have much more experience than you will ever have. Now come back with some serious arguments.

 

[OrcaFat]

Watch this press conference at 8 mins and 6 seconds.

It was the only good question asked ahead of the Europa league game and Oles shit answer says it all. Unfortunately he doesn't have a clue.[/QUOTE]

Ole gave the only answer he could give. We’re consistently making more chances and having more shots than our opponents. We’re just not converting enough. Working on that is the only rational thing to do. It will improve and having more players back from injury will also help. Buying a world class finisher would also be good but not easy at the best of times and impossible until January.

 

[Mainoldo]

I would probably beat you on a football pitch and having played for Under 18s of my NT and being coached by some pro managers, I am sure to have much more experience than you will ever have. Now come back with some serious arguments.

He won’t comeback with anything sensible. He’s clueless. I which these Solskjaer fans would have something decent to say to defend him. It might actually make me reconsider.

 

[Rendezvous with Ronaldo]

Keeping in mind, that in the seven seasons before Fergie's arrival at Old Trafford you finished:

2nd, 8th, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th and 4th

And the fact that you've always been a affluent club by Premiership standards (not as much as today, obviously), how can anyone possibly claim with a straight face that Fergie's performance in 86/87, 88/89 or 89/90 did not warrant sacking by standards in the 80s, let alone now?

Your board saved you from yourselves then, and the wider fanbase (not local) hilariously fails to recognise that irony when calling for sack because you are struggling a little under a manager who dearly loves the club, is making good signings and is getting rid of players who don't fit.

 

[Water Melon]

He won’t comeback with anything sensible. He’s clueless. I which these Solskjaer fans would have something decent to say to defend him. It might actually make me reconsider.

I am all for discussions and debates, but I fecking hate the condescending people. He is the first newbie to be put in my ignore list. Hope he is not promoted anytime soon.

 

[2mufc0]

They get plenty of flack so that's not working.

Clearly not enough,Woodward would have been gone by now at least if there was enough fan pressure.

 

[Mainoldo]

Keeping in mind, that in the seven seasons before Fergie's arrival at Old Trafford you finished:

2nd, 8th, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th and 4th

And the fact that you've always been a affluent club by Premiership standards (not as much as today, obviously), how can anyone possibly claim with a straight face that Fergie's performance in 86/87, 88/89 or 89/90 did not warrant sacking by standards in the 80s, let alone now?

Your board saved you from yourselves then, and the wider fanbase (not local) hilariously fails to recognise that irony when calling for sack because you are struggling a little under a manager who dearly loves the club, is making good signings and is getting rid of players who don't fit.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is not SAF. Like Bruno Cheyrou is not Zidane. So stop it.

 

[OrcaFat]

I would probably beat you on a football pitch and having played for Under 18s of my NT and being coached by some pro managers, I am sure to have much more experience than you will ever have. Now come back with some serious arguments.

Ole’s playing record is slightly more impressive than yours though isn’t it? So by your argument he is bound to know far more than you about football.

Say Paul Gascoigne. He’s a bit more of a ‘baller than you. And available. Let’s replace Ole with Gazza.

 

[Rendezvous with Ronaldo]

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is not SAF. Like Bruno Cheyrou is not Zidane. So stop it.

That's not an answer, and you know it.

 

[Massive Spanner]

That's not an answer, and you know it.

SAF had won three league's on the bounce with Aberdeen and a European trophy, he had earned the right to far more time here than Ole, who had never shown himself to be anything more than a very average manager, quite frankly, and that's being generous.

 

[Rendezvous with Ronaldo]

SAF had won three league's on the bounce with Aberdeen and a European trophy, he had earned the right to far more time here than Ole, who had never shown himself to be anything more than a very average manager, quite frankly, and that's being generous.

Whilst you're not necessarily wrong, given the hounding of both LvG and Mourinho before Ole, we both know none of the above matters. It's irrelevant what managers have done previously, they will be unfairly hounded all the same. Hell, it wouldn't take much effort to find large threads from years ago claiming that Fergie should be sacked/should retire on here from the lean years in the mid 00s.

Results aside, good things are happening with personnel, both playing and otherwise. People need to take a cue from local supporters whose parents and grandparents were supporters, and just fecking sit tight.

 

[Godfather]

Watching Ajax yesterday and how a player like Tadic performs for them made me realise again just how important a good coaching team and manager is. The Caf sometimes makes you believe it's all about the players and poor old Ole can't do anything about that dross we produce every week.
Of course that's bullshit. A proper manager could make these fecks play better than they are.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Whilst you're not necessarily wrong, given the hounding of both LvG and Mourinho before Ole, we both know none of the above matters. It's irrelevant what managers have done previously, they will be unfairly hounded all the same. Hell, it wouldn't take much effort to find large threads from years ago claiming that Fergie should be sacked/should retire on here from the lean years in the mid 00s.

Results aside, good things are happening with personnel, both playing and otherwise. People need to take a cue from local supporters whose parents and grandparents were supporters, and just fecking sit tight.

Like what? I've seen people on here saying that, but what good things are happening? He made 3 decent signings, two of which were very expensive, obvious ones, what else has happened? He got rid of some players who didn't want to be here whilst making our squad weaker in the process? Great. He hired some staff? Great, that's nice. Anything else we aren't aware of?

So far we haven't seen any of this lovely new playstyle he promised, or this new fitness regime that was supposed to fix our players being knackered and not working hard enough and constantly getting injured.

In the summer he was talking up Rashford and Martial and saying he's happy going into the season with them as our main strikers and that we won't panic buy, now he's saying we need to sign someone in January, the worst possible time to do so, a complete 360.

Seriously, what's this amazing stuff going on behind the scenes? Tell me.

 

[ILC]

You mention that that he won 4 titles in a row like sprinkling some rare piece of wisdom, when you probably gleaned that from wiki. The obvious retort to his success with Juve is that in Italy would have won the scudetti regardless of Allegri, just like PSG would have won Ligue 1 in france regardless of Tuchel, Unay Emery, Laurent Blanc or Ancelotti, or just like Bayern would have won Buli in Germany regardless of Kovac, Heynckes, Ancelotti or Guardiola. Those are well oiled teams operating in one-team leagues.

Yeah, the obvious lazy 'retort' is that. However, anyone who knows anything about football knows it's BS. Countless examples currently and in the past of teams who stayed together for too long and simply lost their hunger to win after a few years. Allegri has been able to reinvent them year after year and didn't scrape by with 70 pts or whatever because both Roma and Napoli forced them to go 90+ pts in 4 straight years to win the title. No matter the opposition, just playing against math that's incredibly hard. Or am I to believe the mighty Prem is 10x harder when just in the past few years we had mighty Leicester win it or Chelsea (with mind you an ever more 'defensive' coach in Conte) after finishing 10th the year before? Spare me the premface prejudice please.

What's the obvious retort for two CL finals?

Why is it that people are ready to find every little thing against accomplished, winning coaches but when a sexy hipster new coach comes up it's all fine and dandy?

Actually Juve shit the bed quite a few times last year when they conceded a goal (vs Inter, Ajax, Atalanta, Genoa, Roma, Samp to name a few). His game plan reverted to give it to Ronaldo, he'll fix it. Juve's midfield was disastrous and he made their most talented attacking player Dybala feel like surplus. Juve's midfield is full of bruisers (matuidi, emre can, khedira) and little guile (pjanic) and he conceded the middle of the park way too many times to inferior teams. Just refer back to Inter, Ajax, Atalanta, Genoa, Roma, Samp to name a few.

Every team shits the bed sometimes. Using Juve's team of last 2-3 years as an example of mental fortitude is misguided. They have quite a collection of extremely weak players mentally. Look at Ronaldo's gesture after Ajax knocked them out. He was telling them they shat themselves.

Other than Ajax and one game in the cup vs Atalanta all those games you named happened after Ajax elimination. Season was done, they were comfortable in Serie A and stopped playing. Some players were shut down for the season, everyone was deflated and didn't have anything left to play for.

Their midfield was a disaster because their board apparently couldn't care less. They had the best midfield in the world with Pirlo, Marchisio, Pogba and Vidal and when they left the only player even close to them was Pjanić. Khedira, Matuidi at the end of their careers, Lemina, Sturaro and other Pokemon are not good enough. They bought wingers for huge money even though Allegri prefers narrow 4312 (never gave him a decent CAM) while ignoring the midfield. Juventus played possession football most of the time (cost them against Ajax in Turin), but couldn't respond to high pressure with bruisers you mentioned so it was easier to defend and play on counters. When he had those 4 guys I mentioned he played beautiful passing football.

If Dybala felt surplus that's entirely on him. He was mostly great for 3 and a half years when he decided he didn't like the position he was played in (CAM) and started sulking and protesting every decision, substitution etc. Every year he played 3000+ minutes, hardly a bench player.

Oh and by the way, he got rid of Andrea Pirlo when he was managing AC Milan in order to field Gattuso - Ambrosini - Flamini week in week out. Great job Max, you just handed Juventus and Conte 3 titles in a row!

Hindsight is a beautiful thing isn't it? Oh and btw, that's not true. Coaches in Italy have almost no say in the transfer market. DoFs and CEOs run everything and they decide what the team needs and what players to buy. Both Conte and Allegri left/were let go after they demanded more control.

With Pirlo - he was injured for half a season and Milan was playing great. When he came back the team was already in good form so he didn't play that much and in the end the decision was justified - Milan won their first title in 7 years.

Pirlo also demanded a 3 year contract but the board only offered him 1 year so he left. And btw Juve fans weren't thrilled he was coming. He was widely considered a finished player, injury prone. Conte rejuvenated him and kudos to him for that.

Good relationship with the board

- not really, if it was he'd still be the coach of Juve and Agnelli wouldn't have to had pay Chelsea to get ahold of Sarri.

Yes really. Watch his goodbye press conference - president Andrea Agnelli was crying and said it's the hardest decision he ever made. It was just time to separate. Everything was getting stale and Allegri wanted some bigger changes in the team while Paratici and Nedved disagreed. They separated by mutual consent, there's absolutely no ill will there.

He sets up his team to win

- he doesn't, more often that not he sets up not to lose. Doesn't play expansive football and he's quite dull. He got criticized in Italy for being too defensive. This is a country in love with defense, and catenaccio and closing down, so let that sink in for a moment.

What does that that even mean? He sets up not to lose so that's a draw then? How come he has the highest win % by any coach in Juve history then? Pure luck?

He's a tactician and doesn't have a system like Pep or Klopp but rather adapts and plays to the strength of his players. That's why when he has a good midfield he played proactive and when he had Matuidi and Khedira he realized he can't play that way with them.

Juventus fans like any other are fickle and spoiled. Many of them claimed that Juventus team last year is the best in the world, they could win the title without a coach, Allegri was holding them back etc. Now they're shitting their pants because of Conte's Inter and insulting Sarri for playing the same players Max did even though he has better options in their eyes. Dybala didn't even play for first 3-4 games, and at this point last year Juventus and Allegri won 8/8 games, scored more, had more possession, more chances, less conceded.

Btw - Italy is hardly in love with defensive football anymore. Ever since Juve started winning again the bell of the ball have been Roma, Napoli, Atalanta - teams and coaches who stand out of the norm and try to play for a goal more.

Does not throw his toys out of the pram ala Mourinho

- he does, and he had many meltdowns last year. Just Google Allegri/Adani (but then again you don't speak Italian, so you'll probably have no clue what was said).

So you find one 'meltdown' and that's many? First of all Adani was an incredibly below average player and had a incredibly forgettable career. Something like 3 levels below Charlie Adam. Hardly a competent person. That's one.

Second of all - he's an arrogant prick and goes on TV not to ask questions but to provoke a reaction. With Allegri it started the year before when Juventus beat Inter 3-2 in Milan by a last minute Higuain goal. Adani is an interista and was incredibly butthurt by that so in the studio after his analysis was to say Allegri is just a figurehead, has no ideas, players play what they want etc.

Then in that specific interview he asks Max a question and Allegri starts answering in a normal manner. Adani jumps in mid sentence and literally laughs in his face and makes a sarcastic remark about something Allegri said before (that at the end of games when the team is defending with 11 players behind the ball and you're chasing a result it's hard to play cohesive actions and you give the ball to your best players like in basketball). Adani said 'let's go back to basketball theories' or something to that effect. Allegri lost it, told him to piss off and instead of being a smartass roll his sleeves up and try to coach instead.

If you think that's a meltdown and Allegri should've stayed calm after a supposed journalist laughs in his face then cool.

Any other nuggets, please feel free to contribute.

 

[Water Melon]

Ole’s playing record is slightly more impressive than yours though isn’t it? So by your argument he is bound to know far more than you about football.

Say Paul Gascoigne. He’s a bit more of a ‘baller than you. And available. Let’s replace Ole with Gazza.

Now why do not you take a deep breath and take a closer look at how this debate started? I was just replying to a poster who claimed that I had no idea about real football and coaching. You do not have to have coaching badges to realize that Ole is doing shite, like very badly. And I never ever claimed to be a better manager than Ole, as I am not manager at all. But I do know a thing or two about football and am sure that I have much more hands on experience of the game compared to that condescending person. I repeat once again Ole is out of his depth at United. The results are there for everyone to see. It is getting worse under him and I doubt that the Board will be eager to invest big if the trends continues.

 

[Hanky panky]

Keep. We are rebuilding long term, Ole gives playing time for youngsters. He may not be long term choice but i dont care will we finish 6. or 9. this season. 2-3 GOOD signings for midfield and rw next summer and Ole can lead us back to top4. That would be enough, we are too far from Pool and City. Give Ole now time and chance when there is nothing to lose anyway.

 

[Majima]

Yeah, the obvious lazy 'retort' is that. However, anyone who knows anything about football knows it's BS. Countless examples currently and in the past of teams who stayed together for too long and simply lost their hunger to win after a few years. Allegri has been able to reinvent them year after year and didn't scrape by with 70 pts or whatever because both Roma and Napoli forced them to go 90+ pts in 4 straight years to win the title. No matter the opposition, just playing against math that's incredibly hard. Or am I to believe the mighty Prem is 10x harder when just in the past few years we had mighty Leicester win it or Chelsea (with mind you an ever more 'defensive' coach in Conte) after finishing 10th the year before? Spare me the premface prejudice please.

What's the obvious retort for two CL finals?

Why is it that people are ready to find every little thing against accomplished, winning coaches but when a sexy hipster new coach comes up it's all fine and dandy?


Every team shits the bed sometimes. Using Juve's team of last 2-3 years as an example of mental fortitude is misguided. They have quite a collection of extremely weak players mentally. Look at Ronaldo's gesture after Ajax knocked them out. He was telling them they shat themselves.

Other than Ajax and one game in the cup vs Atalanta all those games you named happened after Ajax elimination. Season was done, they were comfortable in Serie A and stopped playing. Some players were shut down for the season, everyone was deflated and didn't have anything left to play for.

Their midfield was a disaster because their board apparently couldn't care less. They had the best midfield in the world with Pirlo, Marchisio, Pogba and Vidal and when they left the only player even close to them was Pjanić. Khedira, Matuidi at the end of their careers, Lemina, Sturaro and other Pokemon are not good enough. They bought wingers for huge money even though Allegri prefers narrow 4312 (never gave him a decent CAM) while ignoring the midfield. Juventus played possession football most of the time (cost them against Ajax in Turin), but couldn't respond to high pressure with bruisers you mentioned so it was easier to defend and play on counters. When he had those 4 guys I mentioned he played beautiful passing football.

If Dybala felt surplus that's entirely on him. He was mostly great for 3 and a half years when he decided he didn't like the position he was played in (CAM) and started sulking and protesting every decision, substitution etc. Every year he played 3000+ minutes, hardly a bench player.


Hindsight is a beautiful thing isn't it? Oh and btw, that's not true. Coaches in Italy have almost no say in the transfer market. DoFs and CEOs run everything and they decide what the team needs and what players to buy. Both Conte and Allegri left/were let go after they demanded more control.

With Pirlo - he was injured for half a season and Milan was playing great. When he came back the team was already in good form so he didn't play that much and in the end the decision was justified - Milan won their first title in 7 years.

Pirlo also demanded a 3 year contract but the board only offered him 1 year so he left. And btw Juve fans weren't thrilled he was coming. He was widely considered a finished player, injury prone. Conte rejuvenated him and kudos to him for that.


Yes really. Watch his goodbye press conference - president Andrea Agnelli was crying and said it's the hardest decision he ever made. It was just time to separate. Everything was getting stale and Allegri wanted some bigger changes in the team while Paratici and Nedved disagreed. They separated by mutual consent, there's absolutely no ill will there.


What does that that even mean? He sets up not to lose so that's a draw then? How come he has the highest win % by any coach in Juve history then? Pure luck?

He's a tactician and doesn't have a system like Pep or Klopp but rather adapts and plays to the strength of his players. That's why when he has a good midfield he played proactive and when he had Matuidi and Khedira he realized he can't play that way with them.

Juventus fans like any other are fickle and spoiled. Many of them claimed that Juventus team last year is the best in the world, they could win the title without a coach, Allegri was holding them back etc. Now they're shitting their pants because of Conte's Inter and insulting Sarri for playing the same players Max did even though he has better options in their eyes. Dybala didn't even play for first 3-4 games, and at this point last year Juventus and Allegri won 8/8 games, scored more, had more possession, more chances, less conceded.

Btw - Italy is hardly in love with defensive football anymore. Ever since Juve started winning again the bell of the ball have been Roma, Napoli, Atalanta - teams and coaches who stand out of the norm and try to play for a goal more.


So you find one 'meltdown' and that's many? First of all Adani was an incredibly below average player and had a incredibly forgettable career. Something like 3 levels below Charlie Adam. Hardly a competent person. That's one.

Second of all - he's an arrogant prick and goes on TV not to ask questions but to provoke a reaction. With Allegri it started the year before when Juventus beat Inter 3-2 in Milan by a last minute Higuain goal. Adani is an interista and was incredibly butthurt by that so in the studio after his analysis was to say Allegri is just a figurehead, has no ideas, players play what they want etc.

Then in that specific interview he asks Max a question and Allegri starts answering in a normal manner. Adani jumps in mid sentence and literally laughs in his face and makes a sarcastic remark about something Allegri said before (that at the end of games when the team is defending with 11 players behind the ball and you're chasing a result it's hard to play cohesive actions and you give the ball to your best players like in basketball). Adani said 'let's go back to basketball theories' or something to that effect. Allegri lost it, told him to piss off and instead of being a smartass roll his sleeves up and try to coach instead.

If you think that's a meltdown and Allegri should've stayed calm after a supposed journalist laughs in his face then cool.

Any other nuggets, please feel free to contribute.

Amazing post. Thank you for calmly analysing and taking apart his wild, ill informed statements. The supposed 'blow up' with Adani was gold. As if a real expert like Allegri putting that disrespectful fool in his place is a bad thing!

 

[lemmiwink]

Watching Ajax yesterday and how a player like Tadic performs for them made me realise again just how important a good coaching team and manager is. The Caf sometimes makes you believe it's all about the players and poor old Ole can't do anything about that dross we produce every week.
Of course that's bullshit. A proper manager could make these fecks play better than they are.

and this here is the sad reality of everything. Ole came in, he motivated the players to play teams off the park with his progressive attacking style. He lost a game and reverted to the formation and style these players have proven to not be able to play and the results are as follows.

Heck, I am Norwegian myself. I would love Ole to be competent at this level. But he is not. That is just a fact.

Apart from Lingard, Mata, Andreas and Rojo and the likes, all our other players are good enough to compete for 4th. Is Rashford good enough to play main striker? No, but add a striker to that team and he is good enough to be a versatile impact player that can offload the workload on our main striker.

I had a bad feeling about appointing Ole and I got my fears confirmed. We should get rid before he completely destroys our confidence. If I were Woodward I would be making a phonecall to Levy right about now.

 

[Mainoldo]

Keep. We are rebuilding long term, Ole gives playing time for youngsters. He may not be long term choice but i dont care will we finish 6. or 9. this season. 2-3 GOOD signings for midfield and rw next summer and Ole can lead us back to top4. That would be enough, we are too far from Pool and City. Give Ole now time and chance when there is nothing to lose anyway.

Yeah just a Leeds like relegation. With everyone scratching their heads like how did this happen.

 

[Mainoldo]

That's not an answer, and you know it.

It is an answer because you compared the greatest manager of all time to Solskjaer. So unless you think Solskjaer is going to become the greatest manager of all time... which is what it took Fergie to succeed then I don’t see your point.

What I did was dumb it down for posters. By comparing one of the greatest players of all time to a guy they claimed was his predecessor.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Watching Ajax yesterday and how a player like Tadic performs for them made me realise again just how important a good coaching team and manager is. The Caf sometimes makes you believe it's all about the players and poor old Ole can't do anything about that dross we produce every week.
Of course that's bullshit. A proper manager could make these fecks play better than they are.

I have to agree with this. This doesn't apply to every player, but it does highlight the fact that players look better under different managers. The Dutch league isn't too different to the PL, but a lesser standard. Tadic is looking class against CL standard teams, so what exactly has changed since his time at Southampton? He has a few better players around him, but it's clearly the coaching team/philosophy that has brought out the best in him.

That's my problem with Ole and our squad. Our squad is pretty shit, that much is clear. But it isn't so bad that we can't string together something resembling PL football, even against lower league opposition.

 

[Halal Jalal]

Yeah, the obvious lazy 'retort' is that. However, anyone who knows anything about football knows it's BS. Countless examples currently and in the past of teams who stayed together for too long and simply lost their hunger to win after a few years. Allegri has been able to reinvent them year after year and didn't scrape by with 70 pts or whatever because both Roma and Napoli forced them to go 90+ pts in 4 straight years to win the title. No matter the opposition, just playing against math that's incredibly hard. Or am I to believe the mighty Prem is 10x harder when just in the past few years we had mighty Leicester win it or Chelsea (with mind you an ever more 'defensive' coach in Conte) after finishing 10th the year before? Spare me the premface prejudice please.

What's the obvious retort for two CL finals?

Why is it that people are ready to find every little thing against accomplished, winning coaches but when a sexy hipster new coach comes up it's all fine and dandy?


Every team shits the bed sometimes. Using Juve's team of last 2-3 years as an example of mental fortitude is misguided. They have quite a collection of extremely weak players mentally. Look at Ronaldo's gesture after Ajax knocked them out. He was telling them they shat themselves.

Other than Ajax and one game in the cup vs Atalanta all those games you named happened after Ajax elimination. Season was done, they were comfortable in Serie A and stopped playing. Some players were shut down for the season, everyone was deflated and didn't have anything left to play for.

Their midfield was a disaster because their board apparently couldn't care less. They had the best midfield in the world with Pirlo, Marchisio, Pogba and Vidal and when they left the only player even close to them was Pjanić. Khedira, Matuidi at the end of their careers, Lemina, Sturaro and other Pokemon are not good enough. They bought wingers for huge money even though Allegri prefers narrow 4312 (never gave him a decent CAM) while ignoring the midfield. Juventus played possession football most of the time (cost them against Ajax in Turin), but couldn't respond to high pressure with bruisers you mentioned so it was easier to defend and play on counters. When he had those 4 guys I mentioned he played beautiful passing football.

If Dybala felt surplus that's entirely on him. He was mostly great for 3 and a half years when he decided he didn't like the position he was played in (CAM) and started sulking and protesting every decision, substitution etc. Every year he played 3000+ minutes, hardly a bench player.


Hindsight is a beautiful thing isn't it? Oh and btw, that's not true. Coaches in Italy have almost no say in the transfer market. DoFs and CEOs run everything and they decide what the team needs and what players to buy. Both Conte and Allegri left/were let go after they demanded more control.

With Pirlo - he was injured for half a season and Milan was playing great. When he came back the team was already in good form so he didn't play that much and in the end the decision was justified - Milan won their first title in 7 years.

Pirlo also demanded a 3 year contract but the board only offered him 1 year so he left. And btw Juve fans weren't thrilled he was coming. He was widely considered a finished player, injury prone. Conte rejuvenated him and kudos to him for that.


Yes really. Watch his goodbye press conference - president Andrea Agnelli was crying and said it's the hardest decision he ever made. It was just time to separate. Everything was getting stale and Allegri wanted some bigger changes in the team while Paratici and Nedved disagreed. They separated by mutual consent, there's absolutely no ill will there.


What does that that even mean? He sets up not to lose so that's a draw then? How come he has the highest win % by any coach in Juve history then? Pure luck?

He's a tactician and doesn't have a system like Pep or Klopp but rather adapts and plays to the strength of his players. That's why when he has a good midfield he played proactive and when he had Matuidi and Khedira he realized he can't play that way with them.

Juventus fans like any other are fickle and spoiled. Many of them claimed that Juventus team last year is the best in the world, they could win the title without a coach, Allegri was holding them back etc. Now they're shitting their pants because of Conte's Inter and insulting Sarri for playing the same players Max did even though he has better options in their eyes. Dybala didn't even play for first 3-4 games, and at this point last year Juventus and Allegri won 8/8 games, scored more, had more possession, more chances, less conceded.

Btw - Italy is hardly in love with defensive football anymore. Ever since Juve started winning again the bell of the ball have been Roma, Napoli, Atalanta - teams and coaches who stand out of the norm and try to play for a goal more.


So you find one 'meltdown' and that's many? First of all Adani was an incredibly below average player and had a incredibly forgettable career. Something like 3 levels below Charlie Adam. Hardly a competent person. That's one.

Second of all - he's an arrogant prick and goes on TV not to ask questions but to provoke a reaction. With Allegri it started the year before when Juventus beat Inter 3-2 in Milan by a last minute Higuain goal. Adani is an interista and was incredibly butthurt by that so in the studio after his analysis was to say Allegri is just a figurehead, has no ideas, players play what they want etc.

Then in that specific interview he asks Max a question and Allegri starts answering in a normal manner. Adani jumps in mid sentence and literally laughs in his face and makes a sarcastic remark about something Allegri said before (that at the end of games when the team is defending with 11 players behind the ball and you're chasing a result it's hard to play cohesive actions and you give the ball to your best players like in basketball). Adani said 'let's go back to basketball theories' or something to that effect. Allegri lost it, told him to piss off and instead of being a smartass roll his sleeves up and try to coach instead.

If you think that's a meltdown and Allegri should've stayed calm after a supposed journalist laughs in his face then cool.

Any other nuggets, please feel free to contribute.

Excellent comment. I can't believe how many fans don't want Allegri because he's too "defensive" and at the same time make excuses for the toothless, impotent, pathetic football Ole serves up. While mostly pragmatic and careful, Allegri is a more adventurous manager than Conte. Personally, I certainly wouldn't mind seeing United play the sh*t brand of football like Chelsea did in 16/17.

It seems that Nagelsmann, Rose and Bosz are the Caf favourites to take over, the new Klopps. But the truth is that Liverpool didn't hire the next big thing in hope of development, but an established world class manager with trophies and CL final under his belt. Allegri provides the same experience, winning mentality and tactical leadership.

By the way - Rose's Monchengladbach got demolished 0:4 by Wolfsberger (who?) in EL couple of weeks ago, Nagelsmann just lost to mediocre Lyon at home, and Bosz's Leverkussen got outclassed and dominated by Juventus who were missing several key players, 3:0 zero shots on target.

 

[Cloud7]

Spoilered the post because it's a long one and there's a lot to unpack.
Will spoiler my reply as well, since it will probably be quite long.

Spoiler: Reply

Point one: Transfers.
Some of what you've said I do agree with.
Jose clearly wanted Maguire and likely would have had an interest in AWB.
Joses problem, and every manager other than Solsjkaers problem is that they wasted a lot of money.
Take Jose for example, it's easier to discuss his good transfers than his bad ones.
Bad: Mkhy, Sanchez, Lukaku?, Bailly, Fred?, Matic.
You could make a serious argument that Jose squandered a great deal of the money he recieved at United, and based on the reports during his final summer with us, he may have wasted even more.
Solsjkaer on the other hand has made obvious signings. The kind of players that slot right in and boost the side.
He also seems to have a better grasp of what signings we need than other managers, ensuring that the profile of the player is correct, something we haven't done in a long time.
Take Lukaku as a bad example, a talented striker, reliable goalscorer, terrible mentality.
Whereas Daniel James fits the club perfectly. Young, talented, exciting, dedicated, ready to make a name for himself at Old Trafford.
It would be fair to point to the positions we didn't bolster in the summer, but Solsjkaer has said himself numerous times that the players we let go need replacing. I genuinely believe he will get his next few transfers right, as he has done so far.
I think it's worth looking at his involvement of the youth players too. Greenwood has had a great start to the season, Chong has struggled, but been included, Axel looks a really good prospect etc.
Solskjaer has blended the youth players into the first team really well so far, which along with his transfers shows that he is improving the side. It's a work in progress, but the evidence is there, and many of us are excited/encouraged by that.
Point two: style of play.
I've seen a lot of people criticise us this season for not having a style of play, it isn't something I agree with.
In my opinion, the ideals that Solsjkaer wants to build his team around include:

• Winning the ball back high up the pitch, he's mentioned this, we've seen it happen, 100% part of his plans. (Press)
• Be more comfortable playing the ball out the back - a big change from Jose, something we've seen cause us problems this season as we get used to playing the ball between the defenders and midfielders to advance up the pitch. The signing of Maguire makes sense with this in mind.
• Improve distance covered - something that Ole has been mocked for on here. He's said publicly that he wants us to cover more distance during matches than under Jose, which makes sense seeing as he sees pressing as something much more important. Under Jose I'm pretty sure we ran the least? Or very close to running the least out of everybody.
• Pace in the forward line - this makes sense seeing as we removed Lukaku and Alexis, two players who were once quick but looked slow and laboured during their time at United.
• Attacking - put in balls from outwide or advance into the box to find a pass - this to me seems to be the primary way we want to generate chances on goal, we want to win the ball back high up the pitch, advance into the box, put a ball in or make an attempt on goal. This probably explains the penalties we've been getting, I don't have the stats to back it up, but we seem to spend more time in and around the box than we did under previous managers.

I believe these make up a decent part of what we're trying to do as a club at the moment, I'd like to look through his interviews as no doubt Ole himself has explained his philosophy better than I could, but it's late and I'm on my phone.
We don't have a strict structure when we attack, which I think is why people say we're under coached, but there are examples of top managers who don't have strict ideas when attacking. Bielsa at leeds is a good example, he has ideas of how he wants his team to play, but in the final third his tactics are very lax, instead relying on the players to find openings and opportunities.
Seems that way to me, anyway.
Everything after the first two paragraphs:
Your other points I don't feel need as much discussion, I simply just disagree with a lot of it.
I've never heard someone say Ole loving the club means he should be kept on. If anyone has, I agree with you, doesn't make much sense to me. You'd surely be unlikely to hire a manager that doesn't like the club, else they wouldn't want to come in the first place.
As for not using the board as a defence of Ole, I can see where you're coming from, but I look at it in a different way to you.
In the way that you see it perhaps as an illogical way to just try to defend Ole, I see it more as people starting to wise up/grow tired of the way the club has handled the team post Fergie. I think it's a good thing that we're willing to pick obvious faults with Woodward and his cronies.
They've mismanaged the club in an embarrassing way, bringing in managers with a wide variety of philosophies and transfer preferences, leaving us with a mess of a squad in dire need of a reset.
Your final point, in which you say Ole is the manager with the most doubt, I don't neccesarily agree either.
Moyes perhaps had less doubt, because it became very clear very quickly that he job was too big for him.
Van Gaal people had doubts right the way through, for his style of play as much as his results.
Mourinho is just someone people don't like. I like him, but a lot of united fans hate the guy, and I can see why.
We couldn't realistically stick with Jose at the end. He was basically sabotaging the season because he didn't get his own way, and it grown "toxic" for lack of a better word.
All in all I hope this gives you and anyone else who bothers to read this some perspective of someone who likes Ole as our manager, and believes that he's taking us in the right direction.

Thanks for the well thought out reply mate, truly.

On point one, Jose did squander a lot of money, yes, which incidentally I believe plays a part in the club not wanting to give Ole carte blanche as they did him and Vangle, but only in hindsight can we say that. Almost all the signings he made, at the time, were seen as excellent signings, and more importantly, a lot of them were signings of the right age profile. Mkhi was one of the best attackers in Germany, in his prime years. Bailly was seen as extremely talented, and indeed I still think he's our most naturally gifted defender, Pogba is Pogba, nothing needs to be said there. Ibra was seen as a decent short term option. While I didn't ever want Lukaku, he was viewed by many as a player ready to make the step up to a club of our level. Matic was supposed to be the steady hand in the midfield, lest we forget his first few games here how many were raving about him and couldn't believe Chelsea sold him to us. Dalot was an extremely highly rated young defender, as was Lindelof. Fred was fecking awful. Alexis was awful and we'll be feeling the repercussions of that transfer for a long time with the damage it did to our wage structure, but even him, many thought that he just wasn't mentally at Arsenal anymore, and thought we were getting one of the best attackers in the league, and one who could play on the RW which we needed. That a lot of these transfers didn't go the way we hoped can only be said in hindsight, as at the time they all seemed to be great transfers, with the exception of Fred, and indeed most of them looked quite good when they initially signed. For all we know, Slabhead, AWB and James could end up looking like awful signings by the end of the season.

He's been using the kids enough, I will give him that, and that makes me happy, but I just don't see anything in the way he's trying to shape the side that gets me excited or encouraged right now. Maybe it's because I don't see transfers as the be all and end all of making a team, and tactics and coaching matter much more to me. After all, a DOF can sign players to build a team, that doesn't make them a good manager. For me transfers are just a small part of a manager's job, and indeed that's what I judge managers on the least. What they do with the players is much more important to me.

Which leads me to point two. I don't really see much evidence of us winning the ball higher up the pitch or playing much higher up than we used to before. It just looks, for the most part like Rashford and Lingard rabidly chasing after defenders like they always did, but not much else from the others. We definitely looked like this when Ole just came in, which made me excited for what he was trying to do, but as I said, for me I just don't see much evidence of this most of the time. Agree about playing out from the back, that has been a very welcome change. Few things annoyed me more than the way our defenders just hoofed the ball out of play under Jose. With respect to distance covered, this was always going to go up, as Mourinho's teams were never big on pressing or harrying the opposition, preferring instead a compact style, which is why his teams always had low distances covered, even before United. I don't agree that our attacking looks better. To me we look just as bereft of ideas as we did before, and struggle to create just as much as we did before.

There have been quite a few people that have said that one of the reasons we should stick with Ole is because he genuinely cares for the club and has the club's best interest at heart. It's legitimately been put forward as a reason to stick with him.

You won't hear any arguments from me about Woody and his mismanagement of the club, however, as I said before, I don't see transfers as the be all and end all of being a manager. Woody and co aren't the ones in training with the players everyday, they aren't the ones setting the tactics on gameday, so I can never absolve a manager of all blame and say this is entirely on the board.

With respect to the doubt issue, I won't argue on Moyes as I still hate him and indeed he may very well be the worst on paper, arguing between the two of them isn't worth anyone's time Jose and Vangle were highly decorated managers with a great history to point to, one of being one of the biggest serial winners in the history of football, and the other being someone renown for playing good football and introducing a great style of play (I love possession football, I was genuinely hoping we were going to get some Guardiola type football at United). There was at least reason for us to think that Jose and Vangle knew what they were doing at this level, there's not much to point at and say Ole knows what he's doing here. Granted, having won things in the past isn't the be all and end all, as my first choice of manager since Jose was here has been Poch, and I'm a strong advocate for one of the up and coming batch to be our manager if not Poch (Nagelsmann, Ten Haag etc), but even with them we see them doing good things at a level that's still decent, whereas we don't even have that to point at with Ole (no disrespect to our resident Norwegians and your league).

Once again, I thank you for your post. While I disagree with you, I do appreciate you taking the time to address my thoughts. I guess to sum it up, we're both looking at the same subject matter and seeing different things. You see signs of progress and the right direction, and I see aimlessness and stagnation.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Please explain how did Ole finish 3rd overall last season since being appointed then or how did Jose finish 2nd. Unless you are saying after spending world record fee for a CB and spending fortune on a RB we are left with a worse squad in which case what does it say about the manager?

A good team is not made of one or two good players in key positions, it must be an effort from all the boys. I'm just saying don't blame the manager who's trying to instill so much confidence in them. Secondly, i want to be very clear about this, we have the best coaching panel available to us to support Ole and i also think they're doing their best week in week out. I just think we need more quality on the pitch and that can only come if we find a couple more players who can improve this team.

 

[OleTheGreat]

What the hell

Ole has already been exposed as utterly clueless and out of his depth but yeah sure, he's gonna transform into SAF any day now!

Strongly disagreed about our Top 4 chance this season too. Obviously it's not going to happen with the Molde manager in charge (not even Top 6 most likely) but a top manager could still guide us to CL qualification, assuming we get rid of Ole as soon as possible. Liverpool and City are out of reach for foreseeable future but the rest aren't particulary strong - Arsenal can't defend, Spurs are falling apart, Chelsea have a novice manager and no striker. Get Allegri, give him some money to spend in January and I believe he could finish 3rd.

I cannot believe you pick Allegri over Ole. He's the most pragmatic manager i have seen @ Juve. I'm sure he's won a few leagues but do not compare the 2 leagues. I still do not think we should not push our managers to the bin, instead give him time. He's hardly had one complete season at the club. Moyes i'm sure was something else :P

 

[RG 11]

I've voted sack mostly due to not seeing any improvements in our gameplay and his constant faith in the same players who don't perform (Lingard in particular).

Combine that with selling lukaku and Sanchez without backups and not buying a single CM seems like he doesn't really know what he's doing. He also keeps insisting on having an English core which is puzzling considering he himself isn't English.

Under him we gave 5 years to Jones, mega contracts to Martial and De Gea, extension to Mata and Young as well which just seems backwards.

I understand that a lot of it falls on Woody as well but I don't see us being a well coached team at all which is the biggest reason.

 

[OleTheGreat]

I will go along with this.

Thank You. I think we can do better if Ole's given some time.

 

[Rendezvous with Ronaldo]

It is an answer because you compared the greatest manager of all time to Solskjaer. So unless you think Solskjaer is going to become the greatest manager of all time... which is what it took Fergie to succeed then I don’t see your point.

What I did was dumb it down for posters. By comparing one of the greatest players of all time to a guy they claimed was his predecessor.

Yeah, I'm sure when Ferguson was finishing 13th three times out of four seasons, despite United finishing 4th or higher 6 out of 7 seasons before his arrival, the fans and the board thought he was going to become the greatest manager ever.

Please point out how Ole (or LvG, or Mourinho, or even Moyes) should be sacked by those standards.

 

[Halal Jalal]

I cannot believe you pick Allegri over Ole. He's the most pragmatic manager i have seen @ Juve. I'm sure he's won a few leagues but do not compare the 2 leagues. I still do not think we should not push our managers to the bin, instead give him time. He's hardly had one complete season at the club. Moyes i'm sure was something else :P

As opposed to Ole's orgasmic tiki-taka? We're bottom of the table in creating chances from open play, the man is simply clueless when it comes to coaching attacking patterns. While it's true that the squad is mediocre, there's no excuse for being this awful after he's been for nearly 10 months. Top 4 race is easier than it's been in years but we're still midtable because of non-existent management and tactics.

Look, I find no joy in sh*tting on club legend like Solskjaer but this can't go on any longer. We're in freefall and the football is unwatchable, a proven elite manager is needed to save us.

EDIT: Regarding Moyes. Right now we're worse than we've ever been with him in charge.

 

[Wolff]

I would probably beat you on a football pitch and having played for Under 18s of my NT and being coached by some pro managers, I am sure to have much more experience than you will ever have. Now come back with some serious arguments.

You have little way up there fella. Thought as much. And never been part of any rebuild either then I presume.