Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[Forevergiggs1]

And for the 10th time I am asking - if Pochettino was so great, why did he allow the Spurs-team to completely implode in his last year in charge ? No pro-Pochettino fan has ever given a decent explanation to this

It's possible the reason why Poch wasn't more successful and eventually lost the dressing room may have a common denominator. Levi.

Poch was feeding on scraps in the transfer market almost since day one and from my point of view he did pretty well then when he basically lost the dressing room once again it could be put on Levis door with his wage structure policy.

I'm sure you watched Eriksen in his last 6 months. To call him a disgrace would be pretty fair, the same with Danny Rose who publicly admitted he wasn't enjoying football and when your 2 best CBs are agitating for a move away it's only going to go one way and that's exactly what happened.

A manager can only do so much on merit before outside circumstances take over. If we had Spurs wage policy how long do you think we would last before things implode? Could you imagine Pogba being capped at 150k or Martial and Rashford at 100k? The discontent inside the dressing room would be enough to bring any manager down.

I'm not saying Poch is perfect not by any means. His record against the top 6 is an example but working in a toxic environment makes anyones job 100 times harder than it should be.

 

[meamth]

To say Poch had no influence over Kane's success shows how little knowledge you have about the game. There is lot to management and the game which people sitting on a couch wouldn't understand. Messi was always going to be a great but you needed Pep to make sure he reached that heights. Cristiano may have been a star player but Sir alex made sure his game evolved and he became a moster of a player. There is a reason CR7 even to this date regards sir alex so high. There was no guarantee Salah would reach this level but Klopp made sure he worked with him and made him what he is.

So your point that players are always going to become good is bs. Had Jose still remained Martial would have been probably sold. Rashford would have been a squad player at the best and greenwood would not have played this much. So Ole has improved our three attackers single handedly.

This was Ole commenting about Rashford in December 2019.
"The most important thing is to settle him down in front of goal. I’ve seen him rush a few finishes… That goal will never move. I’m really looking forward to having the amount of talent that I’m working with now up front.”

You could see he was already looking to improve Rashford's finishing. And considering Rashford has got 22 goals this season Ole did do his job well.

Same with Martial. To say Ole had no impact on his growth is stupid statement. You have to show the trust and need to have excellent man management to improve players.

I would doubt Ronaldo becomes the best player in the world if he didn't learn the winning culture at United.

What would happen if Ronaldo didn't join us back in 2003?

 

[Withnail]

Because they were/are backed to ridiculous degree.

Even Pep spits his dummy out from time to time about transfers. There's degrees of separation of doing a Jose and putting a bit of pressure on the board publically.

Are you happy enough with this then?

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[Paul_Scholes18]

If we gets knocked out tonight surely questions should be asked by the board. Not fire him this season, but look for alternatives for next summer.

 

[Zen86]

If we gets knocked out tonight surely questions should be asked by the board. Not fire him this season, but look for alternatives for next summer.

The board aren’t going to judge Ole on the outcome of one game.

 

[RedSky]

If we gets knocked out tonight surely questions should be asked by the board. Not fire him this season, but look for alternatives for next summer.

Pretty sure the board will be fairly satisfied with 3 semis and 3rd place. They'll see that as progress from last season and will want further progress next season.

 

[rotherham_red]

If we gets knocked out tonight surely questions should be asked by the board. Not fire him this season, but look for alternatives for next summer.

Erm, why? It's the EL, not the CL. Winning it was always a bonus rather than a necessity once we got 3rd (which is a much bigger achievement anyways)

 

[RedPed]

If we gets knocked out tonight surely questions should be asked by the board. Not fire him this season, but look for alternatives for next summer.

Nah, those are just questions the Ole Outers have been pitching for months. Sorry to disappoint you but he ain't going nowhere.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Nah, those are just questions the Ole Outers have been pitching for months. Sorry to disappoint you but he ain't going nowhere.

Not now, but look for improvements for next summer to push for a title challenge. Alternativly bring in quality coaches to help him.

 

[RedPed]

Erm, why? It's the EL, not the CL. Winning it was always a bonus rather than a necessity once we got 3rd (which is a much bigger achievement anyways)

No it isn't. This top 4 mindset has only become a thing because of the CL qualification and the finance. I can guarantee you that if Ole was given the choice of 3rd or 5th and a Europa League trophy, he would go for option B every time.

If we get knocked out in the R16 next season, this 3rd place finish would have been for nothing.

 

[crossy1686]

If we gets knocked out tonight surely questions should be asked by the board. Not fire him this season, but look for alternatives for next summer.

Why would they do that? What if he won the league next season? Wouldn't searching all summer be a complete waste of time then? Surely just buying him the players he wants would be a better use of everyone's time instead of thinking the grass is greener elsewhere.

 

[RedPed]

Not now, but look for improvements for next summer to push for a title challenge. Alternativly bring in quality coaches to help him.

You don't think that's going to happen? I think even another season like this with more consistency would be sufficient. Anybody expecting to win everything next year is just deluding themselves. This was always going to be a 2/3 year job. Even Ole has admitted that they have finished this season ahead of schedule (which is great, of course).

 

[SteveW]

Not now, but look for improvements for next summer to push for a title challenge. Alternativly bring in quality coaches to help him.

What's wrong with his coaches? We've seen huge improvements in several of the players and in the team as the season has gone on. Surely that's a sign that the coaches are doing good work.

 

[SteveW]

You don't think that's going to happen? I think even another season like this with more consistency would be sufficient. Anybody expecting to win everything next year is just deluding themselves. This was always going to be a 2/3 year job. Even Ole has admitted that they have finished this season ahead of schedule (which is great, of course).

We were going to be a midtable team for years a few months ago and maybe relegated. Now we're expected to challenge for the title. If that's not a sign that Ole is doing a good job I don't know what is.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

What's wrong with his coaches? We've seen huge improvements in several of the players and in the team as the season has gone on. Surely that's a sign that the coaches are doing good work.

We do not look tactically great as a team in attack and our pressing can be much better. Half the squad has regressed too although mainly bench players. I feel like it is only Martial that has really taken steps to the next level this season. Maybe Ole is helping him as a striker a lot so that is a plus. Greenwood of course too, but he is young and new. Rashford has been good mostly, but frustrating in how he plays too just like before. He is not really a winger nor a striker. Feel like the management need to develop him in the winger role more. Wan Bissaka has improved, but his attacking is still pretty poor. Declined we have Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Young(before he left), James, Bailly(injuries), Jones (although injured),Dalot .

 

[Red Company]

Go push your chest out in another thread. This ones full.

It’s never full. Sounds like you’re in too deep though

 

[Red Company]

You just need to click on the 'Votes: 538' to expose the frauds and their shamefulness.

Well I’ve actually provided quite a few my opinions until now but I’m saving the rest until we potentially win EL as well as next season when Ole continues to solidify his position with continuous improvements. Then these frauds will literally have nothing factual to say. That is when you reach a check-mate moment.

 

[SteveW]

We do not look tactically great as a team in attack and our pressing can be much better. Half the squad has regressed too although mainly bench players. I feel like it is only Martial that has really taken steps to the next level this season. Maybe Ole is helping him as a striker a lot so that is a plus. Greenwood of course too, but he is young and new. Rashford has been good mostly, but frustrating in how he plays too just like before. He is not really a winger nor a striker. Feel like the management need to develop him in the winger role more. Wan Bissaka has improved, but his attacking is still pretty poor. Declined we have Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Young(before he left), James, Bailly(injuries), Jones (although injured),Dalot .

That's an incredibly negative assessment. Apparently the coaching caused Bailly and Jones to be injured, Young and Mata to age, Lingard to have personal problems and Pereira and Dalot to not suddenly become a good players despite never being good before. It takes effort to be that negative.

Our tactics aren't good despite regularly beating City and Chelsea and being the only team to give Liverpool a game in the first half of the season. All of this done before we even got Bruno and Pogba on the same pitch. Our pressing is greatly improved but still a complaint seemingly. Ever thought it might have something to do with the amount of games they've played recently.

The defense has come on a pile as the season has gone on. Nothing special on paper but yet they have an excellent record especially in 2020. Lindelof has got way more reliable, Shaw is playing his best football since the PSV injury, AWB has added a few assists in 2020. Set pieces have gone from a huge problem before xmas to not a problem at all. They've only conceded from one in 2020 and that was when they had only 10 players and 3 defenders on the pitch. Matic has come back to life, Fred no longer looks like a pub player, Pogba looks to have finally settled into a position, McT was progressing until he got injured and couldn't get back in. Rashford finally has his correct position and thrived until he got injured, Martial is transformed, Greenwood's emergence has been managed perfectly.

There are a huge amount of positive signs.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

That's an incredibly negative assessment. Apparently the coaching caused Bailly and Jones to be injured, Young and Mata to age, Lingard to have personal problems and Pereira and Dalot to not suddenly become a good players despite never being good before. It takes effort to be that negative.

Our tactics aren't good despite regularly beating City and Chelsea and being the only team to give Liverpool a game in the first half of the season. All of this done before we even got Bruno and Pogba on the same pitch. Our pressing is greatly improved but still a complaint seemingly. Ever thought it might have something to do with the amount of games they've played recently.

The defense has come on a pile as the season has gone on. Nothing special on paper but yet they have an excellent record especially in 2020. Lindelof has got way more reliable, Shaw is playing his best football since the PSV injury, AWB has added a few assists in 2020. Set pieces have gone from a huge problem before xmas to not a problem at all. They've only conceded from one in 2020 and that was when they had only 10 players and 3 defenders on the pitch. Matic has come back to life, Fred no longer looks like a pub player, Pogba looks to have finally settled into a position, McT was progressing until he got injured and couldn't get back in. Rashford finally has his correct position and thrived until he got injured, Martial is transformed, Greenwood's emergence has been managed perfectly.

There are a huge amount of positive signs.

No the coaching causes us to not function as a unit very well. We play as individuals in attack mostly and our high press is often 1-2 player doing it on their own. Although the plan is probably not to press very highly to expose our defense.
I think we got third because individual brilliance from our attacking players. Mainly Bruno and Martial near the end and also defending well overall.
To take the next step we need to work with our full squad and play more as a team.
I might be a bit harsh on the regress. Not saying Ole is to be blamed for it. Although if he gets credit for our attackers form then I guess he deserve stick for those not performing too.

 

[RedSky]

Declined we have Lingard, Pereira, Mata, Young(before he left), James, Bailly(injuries), Jones (although injured),Dalot .

I can't take you seriously when you make statements like this mate.

Lingard - Average player who had a one month spell in his entire career where he actually looked like a United player.
Pereira - Another average player who struggled to break into a poor Valencia team on loan and now and behold, he's struggled here. Simply not good enough.
Mata - Legs gone, he's decent when the games at a walking pace though.
Young - He's 35 for fecks sake!
Bailly - Forever injured.
Jones - He's a club meme these days, everyone in the league and Europe takes the piss out of him.
Dalot - He was hyped up for no reason. He barely played any senior football before his transfer here. Jury out on his ability let alone his best position.
James - I think this is the one you have the strongest case for, his performance levels have decreased since the honey moon period.

Honestly, players like Jones, Lingard, Rojo should have been shipped out years ago.

 

[Random Task]

Are you happy enough with this then?

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This post was conveniently ignored.

It must be frustrating when you have a guy pegged as a "yes man" to further your agenda, and he debunks that theory with a single statement of intent.

 

[Karlos PFC]

Well I’ve actually provided quite a few my opinions until now but I’m saving the rest until we potentially win EL as well as next season when Ole continues to solidify his position with continuous improvements. Then these frauds will literally have nothing factual to say. That is when you reach a check-mate moment.

You don't seem to understand that noone here wants Ole to fail. Everybody wants him to win the EL and maybe challenge for the league next year.

The thing with all these frauds as you call them (I'm one of those), is that we aren't convinced that we're taking steps forward, we don't see a specific style of play just individual performances that got us 3rd (plus the Leicester meltdown) and in general we're not sure that Ole is the right man for the job. Just because he is a legend in the club doesn't make him suitable.

It's up to him to convince the rest of us frauds that he is indeed a top coach and what United need. But up until then questions rightfully need and will be asked.

 

[RedSky]

No the coaching causes us to not function as a unit very well. We play as individuals in attack mostly and our high press is often 1-2 player doing it on their own. Although the plan is probably not to press very highly to expose our defense.
I think we got third because individual brilliance from our attacking players. Mainly Bruno and Martial near the end and also defending well overall.
To take the next step we need to work with our full squad and play more as a team.
I might be a bit harsh on the regress. Not saying Ole is to be blamed for it. Although if he gets credit for our attackers form then I guess he deserve stick for those not performing too.

We got 3rd because since Bruno joined we've been a machine. Which is no shock given that the upgrade from swapping out Pereira/Lingard for Bruno was huge.

We struggled because we were shit mate. Before Bruno arrived we averaged scoring 1.5 goals a game and conceding 1.2 goals a game. That's is not the type of form that makes you win games on a consistent basis.

Since Bruno arrived we now score an average of 2.1 goals a game and concede 0.3.

*league stats not all comps

Player	Apps	Goals	Assists
Lingard	133	18	10
Pereira	45	2	4
Bruno	14	8	7

Just look at the above for fecks sake. We were relying on Pereira and Lingard for our creativity once Pogba got injured. Bruno has already got more assists than Pereira and almost as many as Lingard...

 

[glazed]

Don't get me wrong - I am not saying Poch had a fortune to spend on players, so he had to gamble more than the other top managers

But Vincent Jansen, Serge Aurier, Clinton NJie, Georges Kevin Nkoudou, Tanguy Ndombele, Kevin Wimmer, Juan Foyth, Benjamin Stambouli, Moussa Sissoko, Davinson Sanchez and Lucas Moura - was perhaps not the best way to spend £200 million ?

There may be merit in what you say. I'm not an expert on how Spurs chose players to say if Poch was responsible for those players, or even if they were bad. Franco Baldini, Paul Mitchell, Steve Hitchen and Daniel Levi would all have been involved too.

 

[rotherham_red]

No it isn't. This top 4 mindset has only become a thing because of the CL qualification and the finance. I can guarantee you that if Ole was given the choice of 3rd or 5th and a Europa League trophy, he would go for option B every time.

If we get knocked out in the R16 next season, this 3rd place finish would have been for nothing.

Well, considering we were at one point 15 points off it and accumulated more points than any other team in the league from that point onwards (in the process beating City home and away as well as Chelsea), I'd say it's a better achievement than beating *checks notes* Bruges, LASK, Copenhagen, and Sevilla and Shakhtar/Inter in one off games

 

[OrcaFat]

You don't seem to understand that noone here wants Ole to fail. Everybody wants him to win the EL and maybe challenge for the league next year.

The thing with all these frauds as you call them (I'm one of those), is that we aren't convinced that we're taking steps forward, we don't see a specific style of play just individual performances that got us 3rd (plus the Leicester meltdown) and in general we're not sure that Ole is the right man for the job. Just because he is a legend in the club doesn't make him suitable.

It's up to him to convince the rest of us frauds that he is indeed a top coach and what United need. But up until then questions rightfully need and will be asked.

Just because you can’t see the improvements in pretty much every aspect of the club, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

Being top of the form table since January is quite a good indicator because it is quantified - more points than any other team.

You can ask questions all you like but it just makes you look daft.

 

[b82REZ]

Are you happy enough with this then?

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I mean, it's a good start.

Simply put, if in a scenario where Ole is struggling, Woodward would be briefing the press left and right. Ole doesn't need to throw anyone under the bus but a well placed statement in a press conference or an agent speaking out can go along way into putting pressure on the board to get their thumbs out.

 

[Zen86]

No the coaching causes us to not function as a unit very well. We play as individuals in attack mostly and our high press is often 1-2 player doing it on their own. Although the plan is probably not to press very highly to expose our defense.
I think we got third because individual brilliance from our attacking players. Mainly Bruno and Martial near the end and also defending well overall.
To take the next step we need to work with our full squad and play more as a team.
I might be a bit harsh on the regress. Not saying Ole is to be blamed for it. Although if he gets credit for our attackers form then I guess he deserve stick for those not performing too.

Cliche’d rubbish. Do explain how we’re a team of individuals, and how we rely on individual brilliance in attack more than any other team. Don’t worry, I won’t hold my breath for a reply

 

[b82REZ]

This post was conveniently ignored.

It must be frustrating when you have a guy pegged as a "yes man" to further your agenda, and he debunks that theory with a single statement of intent.

Was it?

Next time I'll make sure I'm up and on RedCaf nice and early to make sure you don't spout anymore BS about agenda pushing. That is not a statement of intent. It's a very timid nudge to the board.

 

[RedPed]

Well, considering we were at one point 15 points off it and accumulated more points than any other team in the league from that point onwards (in the process beating City home and away as well as Chelsea), I'd say it's a better achievement than beating *checks notes* Bruges, LASK, Copenhagen, and Sevilla and Shakhtar/Inter in one off games

If we'd done all of that and finished 5th on GD, it would have counted for nothing. That's great for you. I'll go with some actual silverware thanks. You'll probably come back with some dismissive Europa League remark, which is fine but thankfully we have a manager who will try to win it.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Cliche’d rubbish. Do explain how we’re a team of individuals, and how we rely on individual brilliance in attack more than any other team. Don’t worry, I won’t hold my breath for a reply

We don't move as a unit in attack. Often giving it to players to dribble or create space for themselfes and not knowing what to do.
Teams like Liverpool, Bayern, City etc plays like it feels like the players know what to do in attack and it is the same with many smaller teams too. For us they are mostly guessing it feels like.

 

[Mainoldo]

We don't move as a unit in attack. Often giving it to players to dribble or create space for themselfes and not knowing what to do.
Teams like Liverpool, Bayern, City etc plays like it feels like the players know what to do in attack and it is the same with many smaller teams too. For us they are mostly guessing it feels like.

I tend to disagree there. In terms of attack you want players to have individual freedom which is why LVG’s football was much criticised. What might be an issue is knowing where to be in the build up of an attack.

 

[Zen86]

We don't move as a unit in attack. Often giving it to players to dribble or create space for themselfes and not knowing what to do.
Teams like Liverpool, Bayern, City etc plays like it feels like the players know what to do in attack and it is the same with many smaller teams too. For us they are mostly guessing it feels like.

More baseless cliches. You’re seeing what you want to see due to an obvious bias against Solksjaer.

 

[VP89]

This post was conveniently ignored.

It must be frustrating when you have a guy pegged as a "yes man" to further your agenda, and he debunks that theory with a single statement of intent.

Been discussed quite a bit in the Sancho thread, where posters have agreed it was a good statement to put out.

 

[OrcaFat]

We don't move as a unit in attack. Often giving it to players to dribble or create space for themselfes and not knowing what to do.
Teams like Liverpool, Bayern, City etc plays like it feels like the players know what to do in attack and it is the same with many smaller teams too. For us they are mostly guessing it feels like.

No idea where you are getting this from. It sounds totally fabricated. If you are saying Bayern, Liv and City are currently better than us then you’re onto something and you deserve a biscuit.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I tend to disagree there. In terms of attack you want players to have individual freedom which is why LVG’s football was much criticised. What might be an issue is knowing where to be in the build up of an attack.

Some freedom is good, but I think players like Greenwood, Rashford,Martial could do with more instructions on how to move to give Pogba and Bruno easier options at times.
I think it is particular Rashford that might need some more help vs compact defenses. He often do not know what to do when there is little space. So having movements around him that is trained could help with him.
Our build up could be better too and we do struggle under press at times.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

No idea where you are getting this from. It sounds totally fabricated. If you are saying Bayern, Liv and City are currently better than us then you’re onto something and you deserve a biscuit.

The biggest difference is the management yes and how they play as a team. Let us hope we can work on these things soon even with all the games we are going to have.

 

[Gehrman]

We definitely need to take a look at this Herr Flick fellow.

 

[Woodenlung]

Flick is doing well at Bayern, but he's selecting from what is easily the strongest squad in club football right now. Nagelsmann is the guy every club should be after.

 

[Woodenlung]

On the subject of Solksjaer it's pretty clear that he's done enough to be kept on as manager. Brought us from midtable also-rans to top 4.

But with that comes the expectation that he'll be backed in the transfer market. That's where I think we'll fall down. We've missed out on so many priority targets over the last years that we're only going to struggle again if we can't bring quality players in. If he's not backed with significant spending, I can envisage a scenario in 12 months time when we're asking if he's the right man to bring the club forward.