Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


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Andycoleno9

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That's why I don't actually engage with his arguments.

The worst, though, are the ones who claim all Ole was never a club legend, and that all he did was 'score that one goal'. I don't remember who they were and I can't be bothered to check, but I hope they've all been banned.
Yeah it was stupid thing from them to say that but why banned? This is a thread about is Ole good for United or not. Both sides sometimes say stupid things. And you and some others want to make this thread; "Lets worship Ole and burn all who are against him."
That is how RAWK works. They have competition who will praise Klopp better. Who fails, he is banned.
 

Grande

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Completely disagree. As you said; rich owners. It takes very, very little to go from also-ran to winner in the Norwegian league. Just like in the national hockey league. He did obtain a few players because of who he is in Norway, but it’s not like we’re talking about Messi and Ronaldo. The league is incredibly weak, teams like Brann and Vålerenga can win the league if they spend some money - which they both did the last 10-15 years. Besides, Molde did well long before Solskjær became manager, the history and culture was in place. They competed in the CL in the 90’s, so let’s stop pretending they were some mini club he completely changed.
Out of curiosity, how much do you know about Norwegian football?
You talk about Vålenga and Brann as examples of small teams that can win the league if they spend some money. This sounds outlandish. These are the biggest clubs from the two biggest cities, and their budgeta hve been among the three or four biggest for moat of the last twenty years. They have won one league each in that period, and exemplify greatly how it’s not just a matter of financial resources in Norwegian football.
 

Halftrack

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I agree, but only after the fact. The squad wasn't seen as top 4 or title contenders before Poch arrived.
They were considered challengers for CL spots for years before he arrived.

I'm not denying that he did good work there, people just have a tendency to vastly overstate it. You frequently see people claim he took a mid-table team and turned them title challengers, when in reality he took a challenger for CL spots and turned them into a top 4 team. Still improvement, but not as impressive as the fantasy version of events.
 

ghagua

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I would change my vote to "keep", but he needs to drop Lindelof ASAP. Bailly is not the answer. Get rid of Bailly, Jones, Rojo, and sign some replacements. Dayot Upamecano and Badiashile in this season. Let Mengi and other youngsters prove that they are good enough to get in, not just because they are youth products. Upamecano did sign that new contract, but he will still be gettable.
 

The Boy

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They were considered challengers for CL spots for years before he arrived.

I'm not denying that he did good work there, people just have a tendency to vastly overstate it. You frequently see people claim he took a mid-table team and turned them title challengers, when in reality he took a challenger for CL spots and turned them into a top 4 team. Still improvement, but not as impressive as the fantasy version of events.
Not sure this is true - before he took over they had finished in the top four just twice in 22 years. They came 4th in 2010 and 2012 I think.

under him they were top 4 in 4 out of his 5 seasons. I agree they weren’t a mid table team, but they were seen as a Europa League level team at best.
 

He'sRaldo

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They were considered challengers for CL spots for years before he arrived.

I'm not denying that he did good work there, people just have a tendency to vastly overstate it. You frequently see people claim he took a mid-table team and turned them title challengers, when in reality he took a challenger for CL spots and turned them into a top 4 team. Still improvement, but not as impressive as the fantasy version of events.
The drop off of the other traditional big clubs undoubtedly helped his cause, but at the same time I don't think they were ever expected to be in the CL year in year out. He definitely over-performed in having them in that area of the table consistently.
 

lysglimt

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Poch has a shocking record in the crunch games against the big teams and the top 6 in the PL in general..

These are the games that matter and he's flattered to deceive because your expectations of Spurs are so low.
Pochettinos big problem isn't that his record in the crunch games is shocking - Pochettinos big problem is that once things started to go wrong - his record in any game was shocking :)
 

rotherham_red

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How the feck is this thread still going? A manager who is in job should remain in job as long as he is bringing continuous improvement to the side and not falling short of pre season targets. This Poch talk that you guys are bringing in is rubbish because no club (except Watford) would sack a manager who's met the pre season expectations. Otherwise, think about it, any sacking would result in a chain of mangers getting sacked till a state of equilibrium is reached.

Now coming to the job that he's done. Let's break this out by 1. Performance on the field 2. Transfers 3. Improving the side 4. Team morale and squad support 5. Whether you see the potential of the project ending up in team winning trophies?

1. Perfromance on the Field- @RedSky has already posted a comparison between Ole's results vs big 6 vs Poch's record as well as compared their performances in the first 59 games.
I'll just add to that and compare our performances in the league this season vs our performances last season - as I believe this is the best way to measure this season with the previous one.

Metric2017/182018/192019/20
Position2nd6th3rd
Goals Scored
68
65​
66​
Goals Conceded
28
54​
36​
Pts
81
66​
66​
xG
59.04​
68.62
66.19​
xGA
43.54​
52.3​
38.06
Possession53.9% (6th)53.3% (6th)54.6% (5th)
Pass%83.6% (6th)82.3% (6th)83.6% (4th)
Shots13.5 (6th)13.8 (5th)14.3 (4th)
Shots OT4.7 (6th)5.9 (3rd)5.7 (4th)
Dribbles12.3 (4th)8.4 (11th)11.7 (5th)
Fouled11.1 (2nd)10.4 (5th)11.2 (6th)
Shots conceded*11.5 (7th)13.1 (10th)10.3 (5th)
Interceptions12.7 (5th)9.3 (17th)9.9 (17th)
Fouls conceded10.7 (9th)11.4 (3rd)11.1 (7th)
Through balls2 (6th)2 (7th)2 (4th)
Action in opposition third30% (3rd)27% (12th)30% (4th)
Unsuccessful touches*13.4 (6th)13.9 (16th)14.7 (9th)
Dispossessed10.5 (7th)11.2 (16th)10.4 (6th)

Pretty evident from the table above, that we've improved from last season on nearly every count. I'd go a step further and say this season was better than 2017/18 season as well in terms of how we actually played.

2. Transfers -
People may throw shit at Maguire but we've arguably been among the best defences not just in the league but even Europe. Wan Bissaka has done really well and Bruno has been among the signings of the season. As far as outgoing traansfers are concerned, I'd say every single one of them was the right decision, except for the Herrera one (which is understandable due to his wage demands)

3. Improving current players-
I don't think I even need to expand on this. Rashford, Martial are looking and playing like WC players. Williams and Greenwood have slotted in seamlessly. Shaw has been magnificent. McT and especially Fred look like great players as well.

4. Team morale and squad support
I think we can all agree that Ole has proven to be a great man manager. You just dont hear any negative stories from the players, and all the news we do hear is on positive note. Add to that, Pogba, who looked set to leave, is on verge of extending his contract

5. Whether you see the potential of the project ending up in team winning trophies
We literally have the youngest PL side and they've performed really well. We still have weaknesses and our squad lacks quality backup in certain positions, but as and when our players mature, I think we'll start seeing us winning trophies. Add to that, for the first time in years, our starting XI looks like a Man Utd side (ofcourse we can make a few upgrades here and there, but one can see us having quality players)
Top post mate, thank you
 

lysglimt

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The figures do not lie and your point has merit. We are, conversely, supersh1t against lesser teams and quite good against top 6. We play on the break but have no clue when teams park the bus, to overstate the case a bit.

I would say Poch played to a system of high press that most average teams couldn't live with. It was the system that won those games. Like what Klopp and Pep do, except they have better players too. But when Spurs were faced with better players the wheels came off.

That is exactly the manager we need to compete for the title. Because we already have access to good players. We potentially have what he needs and vice versa.

For me - and this is just an opinion - Ole is a cul-de-sac. We build a squad around his tactics, we will just have to rebuild it again when it becomes clear it is all out of date. De Gea is a classic example. Best goalie in the world at what he does (or he was for a while and will be again) and I'm glad to have him, but even on top form there's no way Pep or Klopp would take him even if you paid them to. He's outdated.
And for the 10th time I am asking - if Pochettino was so great, why did he allow the Spurs-team to completely implode in his last year in charge ? No pro-Pochettino fan has ever given a decent explanation to this
 

Halftrack

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Not sure this is true - before he took over they had finished in the top four just twice in 22 years. They came 4th in 2010 and 2012 I think.

under him they were top 4 in 4 out of his 5 seasons. I agree they weren’t a mid table team, but they were seen as a Europa League level team at best.
Hence challengers. They were solidly top 6, with the ability to challenge for CL spots.
I would change my vote to "keep", but he needs to drop Lindelof ASAP. Bailly is not the answer. Get rid of Bailly, Jones, Rojo, and sign some replacements. Dayot Upamecano and Badiashile in this season. Let Mengi and other youngsters prove that they are good enough to get in, not just because they are youth products. Upamecano did sign that new contract, but he will still be gettable.
Why?
 

TrustInOle

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Am I right in thinking, if Ole see's this season through till the end, which I have faith he will, would he be our longest serving manager since Fergie? Can't believe it's been over 18 months already :houllier: probably helps I actually look forward to seeing us play these days. :devil:
 

hubbuh

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If you take 1 minute to read it, you would know. I give up. Ignore me and carry on.
Oh piss off. Read one minute of what? An article about why James Rodriguez is a viable option? Why are you bothering posting here if you've already reached enlightenment? Just jog on back to the hole you came from. You obviously have no intention of adding any worthwhile discussion.
 

DiMaria

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Is this thread seriously still going on? for a second I thought it was a joke. We are young. We are hungry. And we are finally heading in the right direction. How can any united fan not see this? Let’s just hope the board supports the manager with the players he need to continue the rebuild.
 

roonster09

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I wouldn’t say Poch improved Harry Kane. He just played him. With that said. That also stands for the front line you say Ole has improved.
Then what do you mean by improvement or developing players?
 

roonster09

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+10 in shooting, heading, passing, crossing, tackling, intelligence, strength, pace etc etc after a day of coaching... probably
It's weird isn't it. If we go by "He just played them" then no manager should get credit for any player development or any trophies won.
 

Mainoldo

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It's weird isn't it. If we go by "He just played them" then no manager should get credit for any player development or any trophies won.
Some players are just going to be good regardless. I don’t think anyone is claiming x manager has improved Mbappe. But for some reason we want to claim a manager has improved Rashford and Martial when they are both playing exactly how they did at the start. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not an Ole thing either as I said the same for Kane, I wouldn’t give Poch credit for that either. In fact no one does.
 

roonster09

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Some players are just going to be good regardless. I don’t think anyone is claiming x manager has improved Mbappe. But for some reason we want to claim a manager has improved Rashford and Martial when they are both playing exactly how they did at the start. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not an Ole thing either as I said the same for Kane, I wouldn’t give Poch credit for that either. In fact no one does.
So any player who will end up as good was always destined to be good and player who is average is always destined to fail. What's the role of manager/coaches then, do you any examples of managers who improved players? Just want to see what's your definition of improving players.
 

Mainoldo

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So any player who will end up as good was always destined to be good and player who is average is always destined to fail. What's the role of manager/coaches then, do you any examples of managers who improved players? Just want to see what's your definition of improving players.
No. But Martial clearly has just been given faith to play in the position he was always destined to play in. Credit Ole to that. But he hasn’t ‘improved him’ as his game is still the same.

His first 5 games for us is the same as his last 5 games for us. He’s just more mature.

But I’m happy to hear a different view.

Sorry to answer your question Sterling.
 

roonster09

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No. But Martial clearly has just been given faith to play in the position he was always destined to play in. Credit Ole to that. But he hasn’t ‘improved him’ as his game is still the same.

His first 5 games for us is the same as his last 5 games for us. He’s just more mature.

But I’m happy to hear a different view.

Sorry to answer your question Sterling.
Asked 2-3 times, what's your definition of improving players and are there any examples of that?

So any player who will end up as good was always destined to be good and player who is average is always destined to fail. What's the role of manager/coaches then, do you any examples of managers who improved players? Just want to see what's your definition of improving players.
Then what do you mean by improvement or developing players?
Edit: Just saw your answer is Sterling, how is Sterling any different? He was already very good player for Liverpool, he is more mature player now and plays for better team. I dont see how Kane''s improvement is just manager "playing him" but Sterling is "improved" by Pep.
 

M16Red

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Some players are just going to be good regardless. I don’t think anyone is claiming x manager has improved Mbappe. But for some reason we want to claim a manager has improved Rashford and Martial when they are both playing exactly how they did at the start. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not an Ole thing either as I said the same for Kane, I wouldn’t give Poch credit for that either. In fact no one does.
I can tell that Martial has improved in his positioning and is no longer dropping deep all the time. Rashford while at the moment isn't 100% he was cutting in from the left very effectively and scoring goals, while the manager before almost destroyed his confidence with his left foot comment.

If you can't see that, then I don't know what your watching, maybe your views on Ole is so hard set now that you can not be impartial
 

Tarrou

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No. But Martial clearly has just been given faith to play in the position he was always destined to play in. Credit Ole to that. But he hasn’t ‘improved him’ as his game is still the same.

His first 5 games for us is the same as his last 5 games for us. He’s just more mature.

But I’m happy to hear a different view.
so easy to say in hindsight

he was here for years before it all clicked for him as a striker - so to say it was just destiny now is a bit ridiculous

his work-rate and off the ball movement has improved a lot
 

Flexdegea

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Yes he is. His ratio of resources to results over a period of seasons would, I'm guessing, be better than anyone in the PL barr Klopp.

Are you seriously suggesting that the Molde manager would have been given the Manchester United job based on his managerial CV?


Not this nonsense again about Poch :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Flexdegea

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First 59 Premier League Matches In Charge of Club:
Stats​
Pochettino​
Ole​
Total Points​
100​
106​
Goals For​
92​
102​
Goals Against​
70​
61​
Goal Difference​
+22​
+41​

Just throwing this up here as well. I'm guessing Pochettinos awful top 6 record is because of his awesome tactical nous. :p


Wonder how they spin this one.


Apparently to the eye Poch is Tactically superior and they played the vastly superior stuff at Spurs as well.


If you listen to Manidodo we are terrible to watch and have been since Ole came in.

Seriously what football he been watching :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Mainoldo

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Wonder how they spin this one.


Apparently to the eye Poch is Tactically superior and they played the vastly superior stuff at Spurs as well.


If you listen to Manidodo we are terrible to watch and have been since Ole came in.

Seriously what football he been watching :lol: :lol: :lol:
Tell me we play good football after Sunday. We both no it’s not going to be a good watch.
 

Withnail

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First of all i didn't call you insane. Ok? I never insult a poster who has different opinion than me. For me it is insane to say that that one manager is better than another based on one stat.

Fair enough on the insanity charge :)

To be fair I never said either manager was better than the other.

I was questioning whether Poch is objectively better, and asked for proof.
 
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Flexdegea

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Tell me we play good football after Sunday. We both no it’s not going to be a good watch.

I will enjoy it.


I suspect you wont even in the slightest even if we managed to get 10 shots on target, you still tell us we dont know what we are doing
 

Mainoldo

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I can tell that Martial has improved in his positioning and is no longer dropping deep all the time. Rashford while at the moment isn't 100% he was cutting in from the left very effectively and scoring goals, while the manager before almost destroyed his confidence with his left foot comment.

If you can't see that, then I don't know what your watching, maybe your views on Ole is so hard set now that you can not be impartial
I’ve credited him for playing them.
 

Mainoldo

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I will enjoy it.


I suspect you wont even in the slightest even if we managed to get 10 shots on target, you still tell us we dont know what we are doing
I never know what we are doing unless we are playing the counter attack.
 

Mainoldo

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so easy to say in hindsight

he was here for years before it all clicked for him as a striker - so to say it was just destiny now is a bit ridiculous

his work-rate and off the ball movement has improved a lot
Took so long for him to click he even had a fan club, which supported him over the manager.
 

Godfather

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It all boils down to what we expect. We will never get the best manager that plays attractive football throughout a season in Ole. What we do get however is a guy that seems to be pretty popular among players and at least gets them to run and work for him. That's an improvement to Mou. Personally though I'd like to see Nagelsmann here. Won't happen though.
 

georgipep

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I never know what we are doing unless we are playing the counter attack.
Well...the fact that YOU don't know is a YOU problem, isn't it? Plenty of people around here know very well and enjoy our games.

Absolutely shocking that you have your pants down already and are expecting us to have a bad game. Especially after considering that since we've won 16 games, drew 6 and lost 1 (the Chelsea semi final) since we lost to Burnley in January. But sure, moan some more
 

Flexdegea

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I never know what we are doing unless we are playing the counter attack.

You seriously dont know what we are doing unless its counter attack?


The way we play is pretty much the same game to game, unless we do play counter attack in a big match. Most teams just sit back now. Same patterns most match. Always end up with a lot of chances created and shots on goal. Pretty much runs the same every game, only difference is how the players themselves are actually performing on the night. The run we are on is not a fluke. Only thing I've noticed is the intensity has dropped, which is to be expected.


Chelsea game sits out a load and was poor, not excuses for that one, was a bad result. Nothing went right on the day.
 

Mainoldo

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You seriously dont know what we are doing unless its counter attack?


The way we play is pretty much the same game to game, unless we do play counter attack in a big match. Most teams just sit back now. Same patterns most match. Always end up with a lot of chances created and shots on goal. Pretty much runs the same every game, only difference is how the players themselves are actually performing on the night. The run we are on is not a fluke. Only thing I've noticed is the intensity has dropped, which is to be expected.


Chelsea game sits out a load and was poor, not excuses for that one, was a bad result. Nothing went right on the day.
Your right. I can actually see what we are trying to do, so I shouldn’t have said that. We’re just not very good at it. We try to play out from the back with a keeper that can’t pass or leave his 6 yard box and it shows. We play a 1-1-1 midfield when we are in attack which is just odd but allows for Bruno to basically be a second striker and Rashford and Greenwood are just instructed to do as they please (which I don’t have a problem with).
 

Flexdegea

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Your right. I can actually see what we are trying to do, so I shouldn’t have said that. We’re just not very good at it. We try to play out from the back with a keeper that can’t pass or leave his 6 yard box and it shows. We play a 1-1-1 midfield when we are in attack which is just odd but allows for Bruno to basically be a second striker and Rashford and Greenwood are just instructed to do as they please (which I don’t have a problem with).

Define what is very good?


Is it your eye test, or is it actual Goals scored and chances created, because in that area we have excelled lately. Defence is solid too compared to last season.


Not saying it's totally perfect, think the main issues at the moment are more with the full backs than the system, but we are creating enough chances every match for me to enjoy everything I'm seeing.



Guess we polar opposites :lol: :lol:
 
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Tarrou

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Your right. I can actually see what we are trying to do, so I shouldn’t have said that. We’re just not very good at it. We try to play out from the back with a keeper that can’t pass or leave his 6 yard box and it shows. We play a 1-1-1 midfield when we are in attack which is just odd but allows for Bruno to basically be a second striker and Rashford and Greenwood are just instructed to do as they please (which I don’t have a problem with).
in your view why do we only have one loss since January then?
 

Mainoldo

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in your view why do we only have one loss since January then?
Well if it was a stats thing I wouldn’t bother watching football at all. I’d just check the table every week and make a judgement based on that.
 

Mainoldo

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Define what is very good?


Is it your eye test, or is it actual Goals scored and chances created, because in that area we have excelled lately. Defence is solid too compared to last season.


Not saying it's totally perfect, think the main issues at the moment are more with the full backs than the system, but we are creating enough chances every match for me to enjoy everything I'm seeing.



Guess we polar opposites :lol: :lol:
:lol: Suppose we just see things different. But yeah we’re never going to get perfection.
 

Fully Fledged

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Yeah it was stupid thing from them to say that but why banned? This is a thread about is Ole good for United or not. Both sides sometimes say stupid things. And you and some others want to make this thread; "Lets worship Ole and burn all who are against him."
That is how RAWK works. They have competition who will praise Klopp better. Who fails, he is banned.
Because insulting club greats on their past history should never be accepted. Arguing whether or not he is good enough to take us forward is one thing but insulting the man is totally out of order.
 
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