Nice dodge. If you want to know how I feel about Ole, you could just ask.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
- Thread starter MrSingh2002
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To be very clear, I think that the motivation excuse is nonsense. Usually I'd deploy a more diplomatic tone but the sheer number and variety of excuses that have been trolled out over the past few days to excuse the performances has been excruciating to say the least.
I've heard fatigue, match fitness, Greece, Dubai, lack of depth, and now the new one is lack of motivation due to transfer activity. At a certain point it drives one mad how people can simply trot out excuse after excuse for the very poor displays, instead of simply admitting our preparation and execution have been severely subpar.
If you get that upset I wouldn’t read posts in a forum and throw toys out of pram assuming you know better than everyone else. Most managers run out of ideas at some point, Ole did ay Molde and no shame in that.
The new cafe cliche. I could look at almost every goal scored so far this season and point out the individual 'brilliance' that led to that goal being scored.
Newsflash: Most teams are now highly competitive in the league. Let's just forget about the quality of the league increasing tenfold whilst we condemn Ole and his team, it's been a lower points total for nearly every other club except Liverpool, how about we sack Rodgers, Guardiola, and countless others for failing to sustain the same high standards reached in years gone by, while the teams below have all strengthened quite considerably. During our re-build phrase, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect United to be in and around the top 4 which Ole achieved. Not sure what team you've been watching, but some games have been sheer delightful to watch. The best football since SAF without a doubt.
We went on two incredible unbeaten runs, playing the best-attacking football seen in years at the club. Managing to do the double on City, Chelsea, and Leceister in the process. Yet people wanna call Ole a bad coach or that he relies on individual brilliance. Get the feck outta here seriously. Ole may fluke the odd win against a top side but to consistently get the better of City, Chelsea, Leicester, and Spurs (up until last Sunday) show's he has the credentials to mix it with the big boys.
Let's just sack the guy, un-do all the good for a short-term fix, and then cry on the internet after 20 games in when it goes tits up with Pochettino and the kids are benched. Some of you guys are spoilt and an embarrassment to the club and our legend Ole, it's called a re-build process because it takes time...
He will be sacked if we are not in CL next season and the next 7 games are crucial for him to survive till Christmas.
Our fixtures don't look too clever up till then.
Fair enough. I just think that the start to this season has been uncharacteristically bad, and there has to be more to it than "Ole coach bad."
Okay, then tell me how you reached the conclusion that Ole ran out of ideas at Molde. Since you're suggesting that I, a Norwegian who follows the league, am wrong in assuming to know it better than you, that should be easy for you to answer.
I agree with Mark from United Stand...
Ole in or out isn't going to change anything about how things operate in the boardroom. Man Utd are doomed until someone figures out how to get rid of the Glazers.
The issues that we've seen with players are a direct result of front office policies. How many more managers do we need to run over before more people wake up to this reality?
Ole in or out isn't going to change anything about how things operate in the boardroom. Man Utd are doomed until someone figures out how to get rid of the Glazers.
The issues that we've seen with players are a direct result of front office policies. How many more managers do we need to run over before more people wake up to this reality?
So if I’m English I can discount everything you say about the Premier League then if that’s the criteria. I didn’t realise there was only one opinion in Norway and that everything you said was correct, seems unlikely to me but you are Norwegian after all so guess you’d know better.
Do you follow the Norwegian league? Did you watch any Molde games before, during and after Solskjærs stints as a manager? If yes - please elaborate on how he ran out of ideas. If not - please elaborate on how you’ve formed your opinion about his career as a manager in Norwegian football.
You can make some good and valid arguments about Ole as a manager for Manchester United and why you feel he has to go. There are so many reasons that are valid opinions regarding his future here. But making stuff up about his time in Molde is daft and unfair. And lazy.
Just to post for reference, as I’m yet to see it, here are the league positions 66 points would see you at for the last 7 seasons:
3rd
6th
5th
7th
4th
5th
7th
Average position: 5th
We’ve finished on 66 points on 2 other occasions, and beaten that tally in 3/7.
Make of it what you will.
3rd
6th
5th
7th
4th
5th
7th
Average position: 5th
We’ve finished on 66 points on 2 other occasions, and beaten that tally in 3/7.
Make of it what you will.
They're always going to be a hindrance but we can still compete despite their incompetence. With the money we've spent post-Ferguson we would be challenging for the title under a good coach, the problem is we keep hiring shit ones. I don't buy into this idea that replacing the manager won't change anything.
It's not incompetence. It's a strategy. Aim for fourth.
But a quality coach would have us competing for titles regardless of the board being satisfied with top four, over the course of a few transfer windows.
No a top quality coach wouldn't come. We tried to get Klopp and Pep and neither were interested. Such men have to be wooed carefully. A tier 2 coach might come, but they would struggle for resources, start to fail and fall out with the board. Sound familiar? It should. A tier 3 coach would just be glad of the job and would keep his trap shut.
Which one sounds like Ole?
It doesn't need to be a top tier coach. We should be sounding out someone looking to take the next step like Nagelsmann who has the potential to be. Or Poch, who has experience in the league and managed to get Spurs challenging and to a CL final despite working under Levy.
If I weren't following the league and had no first-hand knowledge, then you definitely could. And we have plenty of opinions of Norway, but I haven't heard anyone seriously suggest Ole ran out of ideas or failed during his second stint at Molde, or suggest that it reflected negatively on Ole that Moe won the league after he left. The only place I've seen that suggested is here, always by people who have never seen a game of Norwegian football in their life. I've seen it so often on here, in fact, that I've grown tired of it, because it's agenda-driven nonsense with no basis in reality.
I'll admit that it's a bit funny these days when I see someone proclaim "Molde have gotten better without him", unaware of the fact that they've lost 7 of their last 11 games and are looking worse than they've ever did under Ole.
Who got Maguire? Jose wanted Maguire and Jose does not play a pressing game or at attacking game or a high line. Did Ole buy him without knowing how slow Maguire is? Of he had no idea how to play a pressing game and a high line of defence? If Ole was the one who wanted him then I would understand the owners questioning his decisions. If on the other hand if Ole did not want him yet Ed got him I would understand that Ole is not to blame for this mess at United.
It’s not made up though and I don’t see what’s wrong with pointing out Ole hasn’t had a great career especially when it’s true. It means it’s unlikely but not impossible he’ll do a good job here. People can still support the manager and admit his failings, why I think people get so sensitive about this is because hindsight appears to back it up and they can’t take it. It may well have been a short term gain and maybe Ole would have won a lot at Molde if he’d stayed but we don’t know that.
I’m not dismissing other people’s opinions, as they are perfectly entitled to them but I’m not going to blindly bow down to people just because their narrow minded and overly sensitive.
I've certainly shouted for Poch to be installed many times and I really rate him a lot . The problem is this. He is effective as a high intensity press coach. If he's been installed in December with proper backing, then he could perhaps have had a big transfer window to build a team that suited him. If he comes now it will be very difficult for him because he has all the wrong players for the style he wants, the season is underway and Ed has gone into stingebag mode. You can't run an intense press with Matic and de Gea in your team. So it will be a very painful adjustment period that he may not survive.
How many more managers will it take before you consider that you might be wrong?
Nice spin. I don't get how it's overly sensitive or narrow minded to ask you whether or not you've actually watched Norwegian football. Which you still haven't answered.
I'm not trying to be sensitive or dismiss your opinions at all - I only dismiss the part I think you made up to support your narrative. I literally just said there are a lots of valid points to be made about Oles shortcomings as a manager. I just don't understand how his stints at Molde is one of them. Which is why I'm asking you to elaborate - I'm genuinely curious to why you think he ran out of ideas there.
Have you - then or now - followed the Norwegian league? What do you base your opinion of his time in Molde on? Stop acting like a victim and just answer a straight forward question, please.
Or keep refusing and act like you're a victim of the notorious "Ole-In mob". Whatever floats your boat.
But if you make a bold statement disguised as facts, don't just cry out "narrow minded, overly sensitive people are trying to make me blindly bow down" when people question it.
So Liverpool is dominating the League and Europe. Do you think Hicks and Gillet are good or bad owners?
Well if you’ve not heard I think you maybe don’t know as much about Norwegian football as you think you do. No one can prove whether he ran out of ideas or not, when it all becomes about agendas and nationalities it’s all about silly and all that does is undermine anything sensible you might say.
They were on a good run. You tell me
I agree and don't expect Poch to work miracles with the squad we have but believe he could get more of a tune out of them than the current management. He would obviously need time and financial backing to implement his ideas on the team.
Of course I might be wrong but in my opinion it isn't logical to blame the board for everything. You said changing Ole won't change anything and I disagree.
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Who in the world does leaking reports or briefs like this even serve??
They might as well sack him now if any hint of this Poch stuff is true because the uncertainty does absolutely nothing for our season besides create a negative atmosphere and breed resentment.
Besides that, Ole is a bloody club legend and not a toxic outsider like Jose. He deserves to be treated with a little fecking respect and dignity by the club.
Genuinely would make me angry if this stuff is coming from the club, it'd be a disgraceful way of doing business
Just watched the video of Chris Smalling at Rome airport. In the country of Canavaro, Maldini, Nesta, etc... Chris Smalling is welcomed like a hero at Roma, one of the top clubs. Fans in the comments want to make him Captain. Makes me think. Are our players really that bad ? Are Jose and Van Gaal bad managers ? Are Depay, Di Maria, Falcao, etc... are bad players ? Or is there something at this club post-SAF era that poisons every individual who come here ?
OR, it's just the lack of common sense. We sacked long ball Moyes and hired Van Gaal to teach us possession football. Then we sacked Van Gaal and hired Jose to teach us the anti-possension football football. Then we sacked Jose and hired Ole whose philosophy is completely different from his predecessor.
Does any sane person think that any player in the world, even Messi and Ronaldo, can change their football mindset to play complete different types of football every year ? NO. Every club has a football director. His mission is to maintain a club's football philosophy. Every decision, from signing coaches, buying players, recruiting young players, etc... is based on that philosophy. The scouts have to look for players who suit that philosophy. The academy has to play that style of football. The scientific team has to find ways to enhance that style of football.
For example, coaches at Barcelona come and go, but they only tweak tactics here and there. Barcelona would never hire Mourinho 'cause it would betray their philosophy. Man City set a long term plan, played the same type of football for a decade, bought short and skillful players. Pep is a brilliant coach, but the club made his job easy.
We have none of that. We're the only major club in the football world that don't have a football director. What do we do ? We exploit the biggest fanbase in the world loyalty to make money. We panic buy random players based on their video games stats with ridiculous price to keep the hype. When a coach fails, which of course he will because he can't do everything on his own, we sack him. We're not a football club. We're a debt paying tool serving an American family who knows nothing about football.
Do you seriously believe that we would somehow become good this year ? That we would best other 19 clubs with long term FOOTBALL plans ? Don't you think that would be an insult to football itself ?
Buy a lottery ticket. Your chance of winning is higher than the chance of Ole staying for another year. Ed won't share his power with a football director. The Glazers won't sell the club for a reasonable price. Our only hope is to become a regular mid table club that can't make any more money to pay their debt.
Until then, enjoy some good moments here and there. Major trophies won't come. Think of this period as a long nightmare. It will be over. Someday.
"The reason they call it the Theatre of Dreams is because you have to be asleep to believe it."
Sorry for my bad English and thank you for reading.
OR, it's just the lack of common sense. We sacked long ball Moyes and hired Van Gaal to teach us possession football. Then we sacked Van Gaal and hired Jose to teach us the anti-possension football football. Then we sacked Jose and hired Ole whose philosophy is completely different from his predecessor.
Does any sane person think that any player in the world, even Messi and Ronaldo, can change their football mindset to play complete different types of football every year ? NO. Every club has a football director. His mission is to maintain a club's football philosophy. Every decision, from signing coaches, buying players, recruiting young players, etc... is based on that philosophy. The scouts have to look for players who suit that philosophy. The academy has to play that style of football. The scientific team has to find ways to enhance that style of football.
For example, coaches at Barcelona come and go, but they only tweak tactics here and there. Barcelona would never hire Mourinho 'cause it would betray their philosophy. Man City set a long term plan, played the same type of football for a decade, bought short and skillful players. Pep is a brilliant coach, but the club made his job easy.
We have none of that. We're the only major club in the football world that don't have a football director. What do we do ? We exploit the biggest fanbase in the world loyalty to make money. We panic buy random players based on their video games stats with ridiculous price to keep the hype. When a coach fails, which of course he will because he can't do everything on his own, we sack him. We're not a football club. We're a debt paying tool serving an American family who knows nothing about football.
Do you seriously believe that we would somehow become good this year ? That we would best other 19 clubs with long term FOOTBALL plans ? Don't you think that would be an insult to football itself ?
Buy a lottery ticket. Your chance of winning is higher than the chance of Ole staying for another year. Ed won't share his power with a football director. The Glazers won't sell the club for a reasonable price. Our only hope is to become a regular mid table club that can't make any more money to pay their debt.
Until then, enjoy some good moments here and there. Major trophies won't come. Think of this period as a long nightmare. It will be over. Someday.
"The reason they call it the Theatre of Dreams is because you have to be asleep to believe it."
Sorry for my bad English and thank you for reading.
They were discussing this on the Paddock deadline day podcast last night and Mckola said that if we had been beaten 6-1 at home any other time other than the day before the window shut that Ole could well have been sacked
"This is not a takeover like the Glazer deal at Manchester United. There is no debt involved. We believe that as custodians of this wonderful, storied club we have a duty of care to the tradition and legacies of Liverpool."
Tom Hicks, 2007
Which he won't get. I actually think he might not come.
He's burned his political capital protecting the Glazers. Turned it into cash and banked it.
Let's say you have a top class race car mechanic. The owners have a history of forcing mechanics to put riding mower parts in a formula one car while telling fans that they're the best parts available, and by the way we're changing that crappy manager.
Do you get it, now?
Still doesn't answer the question. Are they bad or good owners?
Would getting rid of Glazer and Ed turn Ole into a better manager?
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People expecting Ole to be treated with respect by the club, what club, there is no club, check stories of Rio and Evra etc.
They appear to be good owners.
Anyone who got rid of Glazer and Woodward would sack Ole fairly soon if they had any ambition beyond placating the dumber fans from rising up while they are strip mining the club's finances.
It’s a top four squad innit? Third seems decent enough to me. It doesn’t really matter how many ways you say he’s shit, if he keeps finishing third he’s laughing all the way.
Yes the league that is so much more competitive that City and Liverpool recently won both with incredible point totals. But okay, sure, give Ole that. And yes we seem to be able to compete with other big teams decently under Ole, but we struggle against teams we should beat easily. To me that's the sign of bad coaching and there's no other explanation. Playing to the level of your opponents is a sign of being lax and that means the players aren't being properly motivated/prepared in those situations. Frankly I don't see our squad as good as City/Liverpool so a few fluke wins doesn't really mean as much as me as struggling to beat poor squads.Newsflash: Most teams are now highly competitive in the league. Let's just forget about the quality of the league increasing tenfold whilst we condemn Ole and his team, it's been a lower points total for nearly every other club except Liverpool, how about we sack Rodgers, Guardiola, and countless others for failing to sustain the same high standards reached in years gone by, while the teams below have all strengthened quite considerably. During our re-build phrase, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect United to be in and around the top 4 which Ole achieved. Not sure what team you've been watching, but some games have been sheer delightful to watch. The best football since SAF without a doubt.
We went on two incredible unbeaten runs, playing the best-attacking football seen in years at the club. Managing to do the double on City, Chelsea, and Leceister in the process. Yet people wanna call Ole a bad coach or that he relies on individual brilliance. Get the feck outta here seriously. Ole may fluke the odd win against a top side but to consistently get the better of City, Chelsea, Leicester, and Spurs (up until last Sunday) show's he has the credentials to mix it with the big boys.
Let's just sack the guy, un-do all the good for a short-term fix, and then cry on the internet after 20 games in when it goes tits up with Pochettino and the kids are benched. Some of you guys are spoilt and an embarrassment to the club and our legend Ole, it's called a re-build process because it takes time...
You mention "un-do all the good for a short term fix". What? What good? We fluked ourselves into a top 4 finish because of injuries/major collapse to Leicster and as soon as the pressure was piled on (after good performances after the restart sure) we starting to suck again. We limped across the line. We crashed out badly in multiple cup competitions as soon as we're close to actually winning something. When there's pressure on the squad to perform, it sucks, and that's also on management.
Not sure why you think Poch is a short term fix or will bench youngsters.
Also I'd love to see one defense of Ole that doesn't refer to him as a "club legend". The nepotism is pathetic and it's a wonder we're running into the same issues Liverpool did. Fans like you living in the past for no better reason than nostalgia.
Yeah, I want Ole to be relieved from his duties but briefing like this through the press is classless. How hard is it to just sack someone without additional circus?
No doubt there is a vicious cycle with sacking managers but we won’t be getting rid of the Glazers any time soon, so we need a manager to get the best out of this team.
We have a top 4 quality squad, so it’s up to Ole now. We didn’t get Sancho but we have increased the quality of depth in our squad by adding Telles, Cavani and VDB. Any game now they could be our 3 main subs, which is a huge improvement over having to call in Ighalo, Mata or Lingard. Add Fred, McT and Williams to that and we look to have an improved squad.
If the results remain poor then we have to look at Poch. He has a history of working with young players and getting the best out of them. If there’s any external hire that possesses anything close to our club ethos and culture it’s him.
We have a top 4 quality squad, so it’s up to Ole now. We didn’t get Sancho but we have increased the quality of depth in our squad by adding Telles, Cavani and VDB. Any game now they could be our 3 main subs, which is a huge improvement over having to call in Ighalo, Mata or Lingard. Add Fred, McT and Williams to that and we look to have an improved squad.
If the results remain poor then we have to look at Poch. He has a history of working with young players and getting the best out of them. If there’s any external hire that possesses anything close to our club ethos and culture it’s him.
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