Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[anant]

I'm sorry but this is very biased. We were absolute shite in the first half of the last season, and before the league stopped due to Corona virus we were 5th in the league. Our results at this time weren't 3rd or 4th best in the league. If not for Leicester big collapse thanks to the restart, and us getting Rashford, Pogba and Bruno, we might not have finished top 4. We got into top 4 and 3rd actually only in the last 2 gameweeks of the season.

To go on and say our 2nd spot was very fortunate even though we spent the whole season being 2nd except for one game week in which we dropped to 3rd but then say our results last season were 3rd best even though we were 5th or below for the huge majority of the season and only jumped to 3rd in the last 2 weeks is just a biased opinion towards the current manager, sorry. If you want to point one as fortunate then the other has to be.

I literally said that even when we were 5th, our underlying stats and metrics had us at 4th. Results wise we weren't top 4 in the 1st half of the season, but performance wise - we were. Leicester's collapse happened due to injuries. So, I should feel sympathetic for their injuries but ignore our injury issues?

And again, in 17/18, we were 2nd because Dave was having an unsustainable season, and we regressed to our level the next season, when Dave was having a season similar to any other decent GK.

 

[Bebestation]

I'm willing to be patient with Ole aslong as he progresses as a manager.

If he sticks to 4231 for much longer then unfortunately it shows that he has a single tactic in his mind which needs players to fit it rather than being able to build a formation that fits the players he has.

The 4231 doesnt benefit a single player or puts them in their best position except the defensive line - which is useless anyway when it comes under so much pressure due to the midfield and attacking players not playing to the best of their position or capabilities.

 

[el3mel]

I literally said that even when we were 5th, our underlying stats and metrics had us at 4th. Results wise we weren't top 4 in the 1st half of the season, but performance wise - we were. Leicester's collapse happened due to injuries. So, I should feel sympathetic for their injuries but ignore our injury issues?

And again, in 17/18, we were 2nd because Dave was having an unsustainable season, and we regressed to our level the next season, when Dave was having a season similar to any other decent GK.

Performance wise we were absolutely not the 3rd or 4th best team in the league, even away from the results. Leicester and Chelsea were at this point. Anyone who watched us during from the start of the season till the league stopped wouldn't have believed we would actually finish 3rd at the end. Maybe you have to refresh your memories and rewatch some of the matches from the first half by your eyes again instead of over depending on stats.

De Gea had ridiculously incredible 2 seasons under LVG as well in which he saved his arse in ton of games and we still only finished 4th and 5th. He was also fantastic in Moyes season and we finished 7th.

 

[anant]

Performance wise we were absolutely not the 3rd or 4th best team in the league, even away from the results. Leicester and Chelsea were at this point. Anyone who watched us during from the start of the season till the league stopped wouldn't have believed we would actually finish 3rd at the end. Maybe you have to refresh your memories and rewatch some of the matches from the first half by your eyes again instead of over depending on stats.

De Gea had ridiculously incredible 2 seasons under LVG as well in which he saved his arse in ton of games and we still only finished 4th and 5th. He was also fantastic in Moyes season and we finished 7th.

That's because we're more critical of our team and watch highlights or select few matches of teams like Leicester? And that's what makes stats important. They remove the biases that one may have and remove any recency bias.

And to your last point, Dave may have had 4 great seasons before that, surely most people would agree that his performances didn't impact the league table as much in those seasons ( at max 2 positions in LVG seasons) as he did in Mou's 2nd season - where I'd say we would have finished around Arsenal without him

 

[el3mel]

That's because we're more critical of our team and watch highlights or select few matches of teams like Leicester? And that's what makes stats important. They remove the biases that one may have and remove any recency bias.

And to your last point, Dave may have had 4 great seasons before that, surely most people would agree that his performances didn't impact the league table as much in those seasons ( at max 2 positions in LVG seasons) as he did in Mou's 2nd season - where I'd say we would have finished around Arsenal without him

Not really. Football for me isn't that dependent on stats and you can't simply analyze everything about the game by just stats like Basketball. You need to evaluate by your eyes. We were absolutely awful for the first half of the season. You can't stay 5th or below for the whole first half just because you were "unlucky".

I still think we deserved to finish 3rd by the way, don't get my wrong though, due to our very good comeback in the restart but I don't like rewriting history, and I don't like biased opinions.

Maybe De Gea didn't impact the league position as much in the other 3 seasons he was incredible in under LVG and Moyes, because, guess what, the rest of the team was awful in these 3 seasons while we were actually consistently good at getting results when we finished 2nd. I'm not saying we were playing breathtaking football but were very good in putting the ball back in the net and grinding results, something that we couldn't do in LVG 2 seasons and Moyes one in which De Gea was also saving our arse as much as he did in the season we finished 2nd.

Goalkeepers can prevent goals from entering the net but if your forwards and attackers can't put ball in the back of the opposition net you'll never win matches even if you GK is having his best ever season. GK performing well alone isn't enough for you to finish high in the table or get good results, as shown by all his other great seasons here. IMO the impact of having a striker who can score +40 goals a season like Suarez is much more than a GK performing great.

 

[anant]

Not really. Football for me isn't that dependent on stats and you can't simply analyze everything about the game by just stats like Basketball. You need to evaluate by your eyes. We were absolutely awful for the first half of the season. You can't stay 5th or below for the whole first half just because you were "unlucky".

I still think we deserved to finish 3rd by the way, don't get my wrong though, due to our very good comeback in the restart but I don't like rewriting history, and I don't like biased opinions.

Maybe De Gea didn't impact the league position as much in the other 3 seasons he was incredible in under LVG and Moyes, because, guess what, the rest of the team was awful in these 3 seasons while we were actually consistently good at getting results when we finished 2nd. I'm not saying we were playing breathtaking football but were very good in putting the ball back in the net and grinding results, something that we couldn't do in LVG 2 seasons and Moyes one in which De Gea was also saving our arse as much as he did in the season we finished 2nd.

Goalkeepers can prevent goals from entering the net but if your forwards and attackers can't put ball in the back of the opposition net you'll never win matches even if you GK is having his best ever season. GK performing well alone isn't enough for you to finish high in the table or get good results, as shown by all his other great seasons here. IMO the impact of having a striker who can score +40 goals a season like Suarez is much more than a GK performing great.

Of course eye test is equally important, but the thing is we compare 90 mins of our game with the 5 min H/Ls of the opposition. Ofcourse, any one will assume that the good teams are better than they are and the shit teams are shittier than they actually are. And hence stats to balance the biases out

 

[el3mel]

Of course eye test is equally important, but the thing is we compare 90 mins of our game with the 5 min H/Ls of the opposition. Ofcourse, any one will assume that the good teams are better than they are and the shit teams are shittier than they actually are. And hence stats to balance the biases out

There're many here who watch most PL matches in the football forum so I don't think it's just 5 minutes from the opposition. Leicester and Chelsea were just playing much better than us in the first half of the season. We played better than them post the restart though.

I'm just having problem with saying one season was fortunate to finish 2nd while getting angry when one says last season was also fortunate to finish 3rd. This is really not true for me.

Anyway we can stop here I guess. Can always agree to disagree.

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

No win against Newcastle = He must be sacked for me

He keeps the 4-2-3-1 system therefore we must seen an improvement in the result and the performance.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

That first starting XI tonight after a summer transfer window is a sackable offence whatever the result may be! Actually embarrassing that. It’s like we’ve time travelled in reverse 12 months

 

[kopviolator]

I've changed my mind. This is going no-where

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

He’s stuck to a formation/tactic that doesn’t suit his big purchase/captain [amongst others] whilst dropping the whipping boy/‘virus’ for 2 functional midfielders; if this doesn’t result in a far better performance [can’t stipulate a win as anything can happen] then surely this has to be a nearing to the end.

 

[AngliaRed]

He’s hoping to hit Newcastle on the counter attack with James and Rashford and will be happy to walk away with the loss.

Not good enough at this level and now the post lockdown honeymoon is over he is showing he us clueless by sing a tactic that isn’t working.

Juan Mata should not be in a PL starting 11 at Manchester United in the 20/21 season.

 

[luke511]

One of the most important games of his career and he doesn't play one of his summer signings, along with Mata on the right wing to cap it off. He ain't up to it.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Wow that line up. This has the propensity to get ugly tonight.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

He’s hoping to hit Newcastle on the counter attack with James and Rashford and will be happy to walk away with the loss.

Not good enough at this level and now the post lockdown honeymoon is over he is showing he us clueless by sing a tactic that isn’t working.

Juan Mata should not be in a PL starting 11 at Manchester United in the 20/21 season.

Formation does not equal tactic. My god

 

[hobbers]

The line up is so bad the result is almost inconsequential.

Our backs are against the wall, his job is on the line, the confidence of his players are in absolute tatters, and THIS is his team selection for a traditionally tough away game against Newcastle. How can anyone see that lineup, given the way our season has started, and have the audacity to even question fans who think, regardless of all the other shit going on at the club, we can do a hell of a lot better on the manager front than this? Best in class and all that.

I despair, I really do.

 

[JG3001]

Get him sacked. May as well start rebuilding phase number 5 at this point, going nowhere under him.

 

[Idxomer]

There's really no hope for him.

A year after losing to Newcastle away and he goes with the same defensive formation and tactics.

 

[PitTon]

With Martial out, he has 6 midfielders who can be used effectively in other formations and he decided to stick with 4231 with James in. Rashford in the team has been questioned and now they both start.

 

[Shark]

One of the most important games of his career and he doesn't play one of his summer signings, along with Mata on the right wing to cap it off. He ain't up to it.

It's as if he's trolling us or maybe Woodward

 

[Idxomer]

It's as if he's trolling us or maybe Woodward

Nah, he isn't cunning enough for that.

 

[Denis79]

Wow that line up. This has the propensity to get ugly tonight.

Nah, we'll sit back and defend for our lives. Hopefully we counter a goal.

 

[el3mel]

I'm really pleased he dropped Pogba today. Should have started VDB though. Anyway I'm confident of a comfortable win tonight despite everything.

 

[el3mel]

Ok, forget what I said about the comfortable win thing.

 

[hobbers]

This goose is cooked.

 

[dwd]

See ya

 

[Andycoleno9]

He does know that he can change formations, right?

 

[Castia]

Alarm bells ringing if we lose this. The fixtures coming up are ridiculous.

 

[Russky14]

Flip me.

Pogba & Maguire. OGS no balls to not play these. VdB must be wondering what he has joined.

and now 1 nil down.

Correct goose cooked.

 

[Shark]

Alarm bells ringing if we lose this. The fixtures coming up are ridiculou.

Lose this and we might as well try something new. Enough is enough

 

[Shane88]

What manager will want to walk into this squad and take on Chelsea, PSG, Arsenal and Everton in their first games?

He is here until mid-November at least.

 

[Russky14]

I said on a board last week we will be in the bottom 3 before we know & in reality not to win this we will be botttom. Complete set of fcukwits, glazers, eddy & leg end OGS

 

[Shark]

What manager will want to walk into this squad and take on Chelsea, PSG, Arsenal and Everton in their first games?

He is here until mid-November at least.

We'll be in the relegation zone if that's the case by the time the new guy comes in.

 

[The Cat]

We'll be in the relegation zone if that's the case by the time the new guy comes in.

Damn you was gonna say we are gonna be fecked

 

[Shane88]

We'll be in the relegation zone if that's the case by the time the new guy comes in.

More than likely.

 

[Russky14]

Damn you was gonna say we are gonna be fecked

We will be bottom.

 

[Art]

Need to bring in Poch before this gets any worse because this isn't going to get any better.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Things are getting very very bad. Lineup is insane

 

[Mainoldo]

Need to bring in Poch before this gets any worse because this isn't going to get any better.

What has he won

 

[laughtersassassin]

What has he won

Ah that argument.