Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?

  • Sack Ole & appoint new coach ASAP

  • Keep Ole & back him to finish rebuild


Results are only viewable after voting.

croadyman

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5 matches home in a raw in the league without a win.
Yeah that is not acceptable at all and neither was the performance yesterday,also that Newcastle result was because they gave us far too much space to play.
 

Isotope

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They're not super gung-ho, but I don't think Chelsea parking the bus. When they attack, they commited many players forward; compare to Mou 'park the bus' style.

I think Chelsea looked like they defended more, just because we were better.
 

wolvored

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Yeah that is not acceptable at all and neither was the performance yesterday,also that Newcastle result was because they gave us far too much space to play.
Thats why Mata had a good game against the Geordies. If the opposition players allow him a few seconds before they try and close him down, of course he can string a pass through.
 

RedBanker

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So when we got beat at home when the crowds were here, didnt the crowd roar enough to get the ball over the line? talk about clutching at straws! Ole, the media :lol:
The speed of the wind
Blustery conditions
Earth's rotation
Lunar gravity

The above could also be reasons honestly.
 

90 + 5min

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Why would the lack of pre season reward the smaller teams so much? They have less options to rotate with and weaker squads.
It is lot about fitness and how human body works. Anatomy. Teams not playing in August got the whole preseason behind them while those who played in Europe had players back week before Premier League started. I would say that we are still little bit behind teams in fitness but still can compete because every week we are closer. I think that until last weeks internationals we had pretty much our pre season. That is why us, ManCity and Wolves have been struggeling more then we should. It is not like those teams suddenly don't know how to play or that their managers are crap?

Yeah that is not acceptable at all and neither was the performance yesterday,also that Newcastle result was because they gave us far too much space to play.
I love it when team can win but not get any credit. This league must be the worst.
 

VP89

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This article clearly says Jose was parking the bus against Liverpool in that match. https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...ted-will-finish-above-liverpool-a3660006.html

The action zone shows same/similar number with the one you showed of our game in the weekend. Our team was always be forced to play passive just like how Jose forced Liverpool's Klopp to play passive. The 2-0 Bridge we didn't park the bus at all, what are you on about even the stats show 26% & 27% on our and their third area.

I thought you want to close the debate. Just because it doesn't go your way doesn't mean we can't close it. So, move on mate,
You are clutching at straws here. Chelsea did not park the bus. Action areas do not reflect this and most importantly the game did not reflect this. To park the bus one team defends deep and allows attack after attack from the opposition. 45% of the match being played in the middle doesn't reflect this and an article from the fecking Standard in 2017 of all places isn't going to change the events of United vs Chelsea 2 days ago.

I choose to move on because you have diverted the points I made, and this thread, into a silly tangent which I won't provide any further time shutting you down on.
 

FatherWolff

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Do you agree that our lack of preseason argument should now be discarded after playing 9 competitive games? Surely us and all the other teams should now be at optimum fitness?

Of course around Christmas it will become a factor but at the minute I don't think fitness or burnout should be a problem.
If so, something really strange have happened to football. Look across the top leagues in Europe. Hell, just look at premier league this weekend. When I read what is posted about fitness, Well. I think many of you don’t know what you are talking about. But I don’t think fitness is all of it. There is something more. Physical and mental fatigue? To many games have been played in a short space of time. Rotating or not, the body does not have enough time for recovery. Many managers have spoken out about this, and I think we are only seeing the start of it. It’s not just a case of “anybody can beat anybody”, and nick a win.. It’s a case of everyone can beat anyone, and beat them with 2 to 4 goals.
 
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jamesjimmybyrondean

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If so, something really strange have happened to football. Look across the top leagues in Europe. Hell, just look at premier league this weekend. When I read what is posted about fitness, Well. I think many of you don’t know what you are talking about. But I don’t think fitness is all of it. There is something more. Physical and mental fatigue? To many games have been played in a short space of time. Rotating or not, the body does not have enough time for recovery. Many managers have spoken out about this, and I think we are only seeing the start of it. It’s not just a case of “anybody can beat anybody”, and nick a win.. It’s a case of everyone can beat anyone, and beat them with 2 to 4 goals.
It's never been all about lack of pre season. The players are mentally tired. There's been too much football and travelling with little break
 

crossy1686

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So when we got beat at home when the crowds were here, didnt the crowd roar enough to get the ball over the line? talk about clutching at straws! Ole, the media :lol:
No, we were shit when we got beat at home, nothing to do with the crowds. Also worth nothing we didn't lost to Chelsea, we drew. And you definitely didn't bother to read the link which clearly talks about the effect of home advantage being pretty much null in an empty stadium, which backs up what Solskjaer said.
 

Giggsyking

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I think it is very difficult to reson with an Ole in fan, they will always find a reason of shortcomings. They work hard day and night in this forum to find excuses just like Ole. I find it sad that they waste their energy on that. You are football fans of one of the biggest clubs in the world. For few years ago arguably the biggest club in the world, accepting mediocrity is a diseases started with the managers but gradually infecting the fan base. It is very sad to see the transformation in the clubs shape both inside and out. Clubs like Munich, Real and Barcelona will never go in a period like ours, because they dont feck with mediocrity. FFS Zidan was under the fans swords despite the fact him winning 3 CL and 2 league titles. That is why good managers at these clubs will always be at their toes and will deliver and bad managers will crack directly. While Ole is in heaven because he is at a club that he can be mediocre for a long period of time and collect as much money he can tills the fans and the board get enough of his lame excuses. I know it is just the beginning of the season, but ffs sack he has been in charge literally 2 years and had all the time in the world to implement good style of football, we still play like a mid table team (defensive against very good teams and clueless against mid table teams). Everybody talking about us improving and closing the gap with city and Liverpool, but ffs they do not look good at all and they themselves are going down to our level. Instead of pushing for the title we will be seeing fans celebrating a 3rd or 4th position.
 

romufc

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Also, when you have been thrashed 6-1 by a top 4 contender recently, it is to be expected that the manager will setup the team cautiously especially when the other team has players such as Pulisic, Havertz, Werner and has clearly setup to play on the counter. Sometimes you have to play chess and see out a stalemate so that you can live to fight another day. We tried to seek out a win without losing the balance and on another day could have got the three points. It is certainly not a performance to throw your toys out of the pram over.
That is something you would say if you are a footballing person. Most of the fans on here want are Ole our win, lose, draw. They want us to fail to say, "I told you Ole isn't good enough". Alot of United supporters do not actually support the team right now.

We conceded 9 goals in 2 games at home, the so called attacking team that we put out this season has scored 5 goals. The defensive set up has got us 6 goals and conceded 2 in 3 games.

The games we have played Pogba, Greenwood, Martial, Rashford, Bruno we looked like conceding on every attack, since then we have looked alot more secure at the back.

Imagine we went at Chelsea and got picked on the counter attack to lose 2-0?

What fans need to realise is they have put the pressure on Ole to an extent, the fans have pushed him back into a corner. If he loses Ole out is in force, if we draw they are out, If we win they are out because they want to see their favourite players start.
 

Giggsyking

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That is something you would say if you are a footballing person. Most of the fans on here want are Ole our win, lose, draw. They want us to fail to say, "I told you Ole isn't good enough". Alot of United supporters do not actually support the team right now.

We conceded 9 goals in 2 games at home, the so called attacking team that we put out this season has scored 5 goals. The defensive set up has got us 6 goals and conceded 2 in 3 games.

The games we have played Pogba, Greenwood, Martial, Rashford, Bruno we looked like conceding on every attack, since then we have looked alot more secure at the back.

Imagine we went at Chelsea and got picked on the counter attack to lose 2-0?

What fans need to realise is they have put the pressure on Ole to an extent, the fans have pushed him back into a corner. If he loses Ole out is in force, if we draw they are out, If we win they are out because they want to see their favourite players start.
Do you really believe that? If you believe that then there is nothing left to discuss. Do you think people here come and spend hours talking and reasoning to defend a stupid narrative? what all fans need (Ole out and In fans) is the club to be successful.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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You are clutching at straws here. Chelsea did not park the bus. Action areas do not reflect this and most importantly the game did not reflect this. To park the bus one team defends deep and allows attack after attack from the opposition. 45% of the match being played in the middle doesn't reflect this and an article from the fecking Standard in 2017 of all places isn't going to change the events of United vs Chelsea 2 days ago.

I choose to move on because you have diverted the points I made, and this thread, into a silly tangent which I won't provide any further time shutting you down on.
Whatever your definition is or whatever you want to call it park the bus, park the car, park your bike, one thing for sure is that Chelsea park something between the box and midfield circle just like how we did it against Liverpool in 17/18. So the point to the argument still stands that our team was always be forced to play passive by Lampard’s defensive approach just like how Jose forced Liverpool's Klopp to play passive.

Debate has been closed until you tag me in someone else conversation so you need to learn how to move on and stop drag me into it. I wasn’t the only one who said you are wrong. This post from fatherwolff basically sums it up and conclude this debate.

I think you are reading the numbers a little wrong there mate. It suggest we have twice the players occupied in the opposite area than Chelsea by 5 against 2,5. 12% more action in their area I quite a lot! But if you look further on the stats you will also see they had more players behind the ball the time mentioned. We can split hairs on what “parking the bus” actually means, but they did park something between the box and midfield circle.
 

OleBoiii

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Damn, it just happened. This thread has officially crossed the line from 'frustrating' to 'pure comedy'. I had the same feeling about 10 years ago with online newspaper comments. The difference being that I've never actually made a comment under a newspaper article, as I quickly discovered the insanity(and that the majority are right wing, for whatever reason).

You can't reason with agenda-driven posters who'll grab onto anything to "strengthen" their case. We ran over Newcastle and PSG and then had a draw against our main rivals where we were the better team. The result: 400-500(?) posts in this thread in just a few days. That's just how things work in here. The same old posters gleefully jumped back in here the moment we had a rough patch that lasted 1 month, after having a good last season(in context).

I admire the posters who still bother to defend Ole. Just like with online newspaper articles, your reasonable opinions will have no power in this thread. Sooner or later you will probably lose patience too(understandably). At that stage, this thread will be an echo chamber, which is probably for the better anyways.

Peace!
 

RedBanker

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I think it is very difficult to reson with an Ole in fan, they will always find a reason of shortcomings. They work hard day and night in this forum to find excuses just like Ole. I find it sad that they waste their energy on that. You are football fans of one of the biggest clubs in the world. For few years ago arguably the biggest club in the world, accepting mediocrity is a diseases started with the managers but gradually infecting the fan base. It is very sad to see the transformation in the clubs shape both inside and out. Clubs like Munich, Real and Barcelona will never go in a period like ours, because they dont feck with mediocrity. FFS Zidan was under the fans swords despite the fact him winning 3 CL and 2 league titles. That is why good managers at these clubs will always be at their toes and will deliver and bad managers will crack directly. While Ole is in heaven because he is at a club that he can be mediocre for a long period of time and collect as much money he can tills the fans and the board get enough of his lame excuses. I know it is just the beginning of the season, but ffs sack he has been in charge literally 2 years and had all the time in the world to implement good style of football, we still play like a mid table team (defensive against very good teams and clueless against mid table teams). Everybody talking about us improving and closing the gap with city and Liverpool, but ffs they do not look good at all and they themselves are going down to our level. Instead of pushing for the title we will be seeing fans celebrating a 3rd or 4th position.
This has been done to the death. Don't bother. Save your energy on better things in life. Our spineless owners have settled for mediocrity. A lot of our supporters have too. Sad, but it's the truth. Let's just not turn on each other like warring factions. But that is also happening now I guess.
 

romufc

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Do you really believe that? If you believe that then there is nothing left to discuss. Do you think people here come and spend hours talking and reasoning to defend a stupid narrative? what all fans need (Ole out and In fans) is the club to be successful.
Not all, there are large portions on youtube channels, twitter etc.

I have seen people complain about the line up against Newcastle, PSG and Chelsea. We got 2 wins and a draw.

Why is Donny not playing, why is Pogba not playing, Why is Telles not playing. It's always about the players not playing, even after a win.

Yes, I get that Donny needs to be playing but some fans are making it out as if he is a WC player. He isnt and he can only play in the 10 role at the moment.

The amount of fan pressure to get results, Ole is not going to trial a new player when he knows Bruno performs in the 10.
 

rotherham_red

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Yeah, but we should be able to rotate if we want. It is normal for the big teams to play much more.
We did just that this past week, tbf. The difference is, we played Chelsea and the rest played other inferior teams. Ole made a mistake with the lineup but even so, the performance was nowhere near being as concerning as what this thread is making out, and the result wasn't a bad one at all in the grand scheme of things.

The only frustration is that the game was there for the taking and should have been taken but considering that most of Ole's detractors were saying he'd be sacked after Saturday and that we'd have lost at least one of the games this week, on the whole it's been a positive week for us.
 

rotherham_red

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Do you agree that our lack of preseason argument should now be discarded after playing 9 competitive games? Surely us and all the other teams should now be at optimum fitness?

Of course around Christmas it will become a factor but at the minute I don't think fitness or burnout should be a problem.
I mean, if it was just us I'd say yeah that's a more than fair assumption to make but it really isn't. Only 2 of the teams who played in Europe won their PL games this week. Barca lost the Clasico at home to a Real team who were a laughing stock against Shakhtar 3 days prior and Juve drew their game this week.

The reality is, is that something is up with the consistency of the teams around us and in this unprecedented season it isn't hard to find the causation.
 

anant

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Whatever your definition is or whatever you want to call it park the bus, park the car, park your bike, one thing for sure is that Chelsea park something between the box and midfield circle just like how we did it against Liverpool in 17/18. So the point to the argument still stands that our team was always be forced to play passive by Lampard’s defensive approach just like how Jose forced Liverpool's Klopp to play passive.

Debate has been closed until you tag me in someone else conversation so you need to learn how to move on and stop drag me into it. I wasn’t the only one who said you are wrong. This post from fatherwolff basically sums it up and conclude this debate.
Why are you still going on? He's not going to agree to what you're saying anyways.

34% of the game was played in Chelsea's defensive third. (https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...er-League-2020-2021-Manchester-United-Chelsea). For reference, LAst season, only City managed to play more in opposition third at 36%(https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...amStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020)

Look at average positions - They had 3 players whose average position was in attacking half compared 5 of our players, but apparantly, he wanted us to expose our backline so that Werner and Pulisic can hit us on the counter
 

VP89

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Whatever your definition is or whatever you want to call it park the bus, park the car, park your bike, one thing for sure is that Chelsea park something between the box and midfield circle just like how we did it against Liverpool in 17/18. So the point to the argument still stands that our team was always be forced to play passive by Lampard’s defensive approach just like how Jose forced Liverpool's Klopp to play passive.

Debate has been closed until you tag me in someone else conversation so you need to learn how to move on and stop drag me into it. I wasn’t the only one who said you are wrong. This post from fatherwolff basically sums it up and conclude this debate.
I didn't call it anything - you called it park the bus, which is a pile of royal bullshit. I told you many times to leave it be but your best point is quoting another poster who is misinterpreting the statistics - go on the link and refer to the positional report. Chelsea are bunching out the midfield, sure, this is expected in a 352. But that is not parking the bus. Parking the bus is to set up shop and defend extremely deep, which Chelsea didn't do. In fact they had two patches of pro-longed possession, where one 15 minute example had 0% of the ball in their final third. This happened at different points in the game before they lost control in the final quarter of the game.

Again this is an issue of trying to summarize phases of a game in a single snapshot, only limited viewers would refer to statistics in isolation to try and drive a point home. As I said, no one worth their salt has even implied Chelsea parked the bus. The fact that you have deflected all my points to this ridiculous notion of how Chelsea played shows you are reduced to very little, so yes, this is where we move on. Case closed. Don't bother quoting because I won't reply now.
 

VP89

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Why are you still going on? He's not going to agree to what you're saying anyways.

34% of the game was played in Chelsea's defensive third. (https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...er-League-2020-2021-Manchester-United-Chelsea). For reference, LAst season, only City managed to play more in opposition third at 36%(https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...amStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020)

Look at average positions - They had 3 players whose average position was in attacking half compared 5 of our players, but apparantly, he wanted us to expose our backline so that Werner and Pulisic can hit us on the counter
That doesn't mean Chelsea parked the bus. It means we attacked more than they did but I was never denying this.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...er-League-2020-2021-Manchester-United-Chelsea

^ Positional report section > Player report tab. That is not how a team parking the bus is set up. 45% of the game was a midfield battle - that does not happen when a team parks the fecking bus the whole game. What happened was stretches and patches of game where they had control and where we had control (up to around 65 minutes where we took over). Again, only idiots would look at a snapshot in isolation and infer things like "oh they must have parked the bus". We all saw the game.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Why are you still going on? He's not going to agree to what you're saying anyways.

34% of the game was played in Chelsea's defensive third. (https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...er-League-2020-2021-Manchester-United-Chelsea). For reference, LAst season, only City managed to play more in opposition third at 36%(https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...amStatistics/England-Premier-League-2019-2020)

Look at average positions - They had 3 players whose average position was in attacking half compared 5 of our players, but apparantly, he wanted us to expose our backline so that Werner and Pulisic can hit us on the counter
:lol: It’s like talking to wall. Even with multiple people disagree with him and telling him he’s wrong but he is still persistent to his idealism like he thinks the world must obey to him. And the worst part is he still can’t move on.

Oh and your reference is spot on there.
 

FatherWolff

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That doesn't mean Chelsea parked the bus. It means we attacked more than they did but I was never denying this.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...er-League-2020-2021-Manchester-United-Chelsea

^ Positional report section > Player report tab. That is not how a team parking the bus is set up. 45% of the game was a midfield battle - that does not happen when a team parks the fecking bus the whole game. What happened was stretches and patches of game where they had control and where we had control (up to around 65 minutes where we took over). Again, only idiots would look at a snapshot in isolation and infer things like "oh they must have parked the bus". We all saw the game.
«To explain what parking the bus means in football to a layman, one can say that it is a sort of style wherein the team gets ultra-defensive and propagates keeping possession of the ball more than trying to widen the areas and build offensively. In this style of play, central defenders and central midfielders play a huge role as they determine where the ball is going to go after possession has been snatched back from the opposition.»
Football tactics explained:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/foo...m&utm_medium=native&utm_campaign=ShareArticle
 

VP89

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«To explain what parking the bus means in football to a layman, one can say that it is a sort of style wherein the team gets ultra-defensive and propagates keeping possession of the ball more than trying to widen the areas and build offensively. In this style of play, central defenders and central midfielders play a huge role as they determine where the ball is going to go after possession has been snatched back from the opposition.»
Football tactics explained:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/amp/foo...m&utm_medium=native&utm_campaign=ShareArticle
And from the game, Chelsea were not playing "ultra defensively". They were blunt in the final 3rd, but they were certainly not ultra defensive. In fact for the first 45 minutes, both teams were fecking about and not trying too hard to attack - it was pointed out by everyone. I guess we were parking the bus too? No, of course we weren't. Neither side was parking the bus, so stop claiming they were.

As I already said, we started well, then Chelsea had a strong patch of domination, then we did. Then we battled for control into the 2nd half, as we got the upper hand for the final quarter of the game. There was no parking of a bus.
 

iato89

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I think it is very difficult to reson with an Ole in fan, they will always find a reason of shortcomings. They work hard day and night in this forum to find excuses just like Ole. I find it sad that they waste their energy on that. You are football fans of one of the biggest clubs in the world. For few years ago arguably the biggest club in the world, accepting mediocrity is a diseases started with the managers but gradually infecting the fan base. It is very sad to see the transformation in the clubs shape both inside and out. Clubs like Munich, Real and Barcelona will never go in a period like ours, because they dont feck with mediocrity. FFS Zidan was under the fans swords despite the fact him winning 3 CL and 2 league titles. That is why good managers at these clubs will always be at their toes and will deliver and bad managers will crack directly. While Ole is in heaven because he is at a club that he can be mediocre for a long period of time and collect as much money he can tills the fans and the board get enough of his lame excuses. I know it is just the beginning of the season, but ffs sack he has been in charge literally 2 years and had all the time in the world to implement good style of football, we still play like a mid table team (defensive against very good teams and clueless against mid table teams). Everybody talking about us improving and closing the gap with city and Liverpool, but ffs they do not look good at all and they themselves are going down to our level. Instead of pushing for the title we will be seeing fans celebrating a 3rd or 4th position.
Amen, and we will continue to have resuls like these as, imo, he is nowhere good enough to manag a top team. Some fans talk to give him a chances like he has been at the helm for just 3 month when in reality it has now been almost 2 years !!
 

wolvored

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No, we were shit when we got beat at home, nothing to do with the crowds. Also worth nothing we didn't lost to Chelsea, we drew. And you definitely didn't bother to read the link which clearly talks about the effect of home advantage being pretty much null in an empty stadium, which backs up what Solskjaer said.
It's all an excuse for any manager to use when they didn't win. Yes I know we didn't lose as I watched the match. Lampard stated they should have won as the Maguire hold should have been a penalty. See another excuse used by a manager to deflect why they didn't win.
 

Hamidi Saidi

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We did just that this past week, tbf. The difference is, we played Chelsea and the rest played other inferior teams. Ole made a mistake with the lineup but even so, the performance was nowhere near being as concerning as what this thread is making out, and the result wasn't a bad one at all in the grand scheme of things.

The only frustration is that the game was there for the taking and should have been taken but considering that most of Ole's detractors were saying he'd be sacked after Saturday and that we'd have lost at least one of the games this week, on the whole it's been a positive week for us.
My 1st post in a very long time....i believe....anyway, i in the 'Ole in' camp....

It is a double-edged sword with some fans, pundits and even ex-players (from Utd or not)...

If Utd play inferior team and loses, they will ask for Ole's head....if Utd wins, they will say, it is the least expected from Utd.

If Utd plays a similar level or better team and wins, the same people will either say the players did well (a few will say Ole did well) or will say, they will reserve their judgement of Ole....if Utd loses, they will again ask for Ole's head.....

If Ole didnt pick VDB, they will also ask for Ole's head...if he had picked VDB and loses against Chelsea, likely the same people will ask why he throw VDB in for his debut EPL game against Chelsea...problem is, who among them can explain how Ole is to play VDB against Chelsea i.e who should be dropped from the team that beat Newcastle and had the same people raving? and in which position?

It just seems that Ole cannot win them over even though we can definitely see improvements in the way the team plays...even Van Gaal and Mou (renown managers) sets the team to bore us during their tenure at Utd...and this happened most games....

I believe, for them, they need to see Ole lead Utd to win either the Carabao, FA Cup or even get 2nd in the league...dare we dream of Champions League?

I think changing of managers now will not help...it just means more chopping of players and more years to rebuild again....so, in Ole i trust.
 

crossy1686

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It's all an excuse for any manager to use when they didn't win. Yes I know we didn't lose as I watched the match. Lampard stated they should have won as the Maguire hold should have been a penalty. See another excuse used by a manager to deflect why they didn't win.
Excuses, fine margins, call it what you want. The fact of the matter is that their goalkeeper kept them in the game and whenever Dave has been our best player this place has disappeared up its own arsehole with contempt for anyone and everything because “a goalkeeper at a team like Manchester United should never be man of the match”.

But yeah sure, Ole’s an embarrassment for defending his players to the media because it made you cringe because you care way too much what opposition fans think of our manager.
 

rotherham_red

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My 1st post in a very long time....i believe....anyway, i in the 'Ole in' camp....

It is a double-edged sword with some fans, pundits and even ex-players (from Utd or not)...

If Utd play inferior team and loses, they will ask for Ole's head....if Utd wins, they will say, it is the least expected from Utd.

If Utd plays a similar level or better team and wins, the same people will either say the players did well (a few will say Ole did well) or will say, they will reserve their judgement of Ole....if Utd loses, they will again ask for Ole's head.....

If Ole didnt pick VDB, they will also ask for Ole's head...if he had picked VDB and loses against Chelsea, likely the same people will ask why he throw VDB in for his debut EPL game against Chelsea...problem is, who among them can explain how Ole is to play VDB against Chelsea i.e who should be dropped from the team that beat Newcastle and had the same people raving? and in which position?

It just seems that Ole cannot win them over even though we can definitely see improvements in the way the team plays...even Van Gaal and Mou (renown managers) sets the team to bore us during their tenure at Utd...and this happened most games....

I believe, for them, they need to see Ole lead Utd to win either the Carabao, FA Cup or even get 2nd in the league...dare we dream of Champions League?

I think changing of managers now will not help...it just means more chopping of players and more years to rebuild again....so, in Ole i trust.
I 100% agree. For some people it seems to be some sort of warped principle that they will not give the manager any credit, or if they do, it's in circumstances where not to do so, would be ridiculous.
 

Striker10

"Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football
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Considering the board/owners are parasites we are doing ok. Not bad. Of course we need to go on a run to rebuild momentum. You see how fragile many are with our signings not playing. What happened to being patient? Having common sense? Because I tell you, many people lack many things and they're shameful. So who do we blame? Ole? The board? We know who we wanted. If we got them then you can blame Ole but we're stabilising. We need to build on recent results. Sir Alex needed how many years to create his own team? And how many people wanted him gone? Sometimes you have to show trust. Sometimes you have to humble yourselves. And sometimes, if you want to blame people? Blame the right people.

Now against Chelsea I think we could have picked a stronger team BUT Ole has to manage the season and the players. Ole can turn round and say to Ed....see James? He cost us how much? What good is it, if he cannot produce? But at some point, you have to rely on these players.... A manager don't earn respect or create harmony by pointing to players and saying you're crap and you're crap. We just have to be less reactionary. if we cannot listen to people without 'reacting' in extreme ways, then we're unable to listen full stop. So many need to grow up and give Ole some respect. These are unprecedented times. If you want to judge anyone? Judge yourselves or develop the ability to think and be rational.
 

tomaldinho1

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No, we were shit when we got beat at home, nothing to do with the crowds. Also worth nothing we didn't lost to Chelsea, we drew. And you definitely didn't bother to read the link which clearly talks about the effect of home advantage being pretty much null in an empty stadium, which backs up what Solskjaer said.
Re the crowds point, can we just accept we haven't been good enough whether you want Ole in or out? Every single PL club has the crowd issue. Let's also not kid ourselves to think OT has some magical atmosphere that other PL don't have, if anything we are criticised for not having the best atmosphere so, if anything, it would affect us less than other teams.

This is where we are currently at in the PL: Home L, Away W, Home L, Away W, Home D. It's the definition of midtable form - 7 from 15. Yes the PL is all over the place this season and so we shouldn't rush to conculsions but simply by analysing what we are seeing on the pitch - it's completely fair to be asking serious questions of Ole.
 

90 + 5min

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I think it is very difficult to reson with an Ole in fan, they will always find a reason of shortcomings. They work hard day and night in this forum to find excuses just like Ole. I find it sad that they waste their energy on that. You are football fans of one of the biggest clubs in the world. For few years ago arguably the biggest club in the world, accepting mediocrity is a diseases started with the managers but gradually infecting the fan base. It is very sad to see the transformation in the clubs shape both inside and out. Clubs like Munich, Real and Barcelona will never go in a period like ours, because they dont feck with mediocrity. FFS Zidan was under the fans swords despite the fact him winning 3 CL and 2 league titles. That is why good managers at these clubs will always be at their toes and will deliver and bad managers will crack directly. While Ole is in heaven because he is at a club that he can be mediocre for a long period of time and collect as much money he can tills the fans and the board get enough of his lame excuses. I know it is just the beginning of the season, but ffs sack he has been in charge literally 2 years and had all the time in the world to implement good style of football, we still play like a mid table team (defensive against very good teams and clueless against mid table teams). Everybody talking about us improving and closing the gap with city and Liverpool, but ffs they do not look good at all and they themselves are going down to our level. Instead of pushing for the title we will be seeing fans celebrating a 3rd or 4th position.
I don't think it is. We have very valid points to why Solskjaer is doing right things. When we say that it doesn't mean he is flawless. It is that we see progress under him and his staff.

You say club like Bayern Munchen, Real Madrid and Barcelona would never go through a period like we. That is correct. One thing is that they dominate everything in their country. From sponsors and tv-money to politics. Even higher up in government. Our league and those leagues are not the same. Not even close in terms of equality. Madrid have also won 3 league titles last 13 years. Credit to them winning couple of Champions League titles. They have in that period of time had 9 managers. You think that is something to follow? A club that can also fire managers winning titles without any good reason, more then politics?

Reading your posts you seem to be someone with very little patience and if you were director you would be sacking managers every 3 months depending on if we lead league or not.
 

shaky

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Amen, and we will continue to have resuls like these as, imo, he is nowhere good enough to manag a top team. Some fans talk to give him a chances like he has been at the helm for just 3 month when in reality it has now been almost 2 years !!
Newsflash. All teams are having results like these.
 

anant

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That doesn't mean Chelsea parked the bus. It means we attacked more than they did but I was never denying this.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...er-League-2020-2021-Manchester-United-Chelsea

^ Positional report section > Player report tab. That is not how a team parking the bus is set up. 45% of the game was a midfield battle - that does not happen when a team parks the fecking bus the whole game. What happened was stretches and patches of game where they had control and where we had control (up to around 65 minutes where we took over). Again, only idiots would look at a snapshot in isolation and infer things like "oh they must have parked the bus". We all saw the game.
Remember Utd Pool 0-0 in Mou's 2nd season, where we parked the bus?

Guess, that was also not parking the bus by your definition as 44% of the game was a midfield battle : https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...-League-2017-2018-Liverpool-Manchester-United

Hell, in that game, 4 of our players had their average position in the opposition half compared to 3 for Chelsea on Saturday. Look at the heatmap, you won't find a red spot running across just outside the final third.

No one's saying they didn't attack at all - that's not what parking the bus even means. All we're saying is that they played an ultra-safe form of football where they pretty much always had 4-6 on defensive duties and just 2 players on attacking duty
 

Forevergiggs1

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If so, something really strange have happened to football. Look across the top leagues in Europe. Hell, just look at premier league this weekend. When I read what is posted about fitness, Well. I think many of you don’t know what you are talking about. But I don’t think fitness is all of it. There is something more. Physical and mental fatigue? To many games have been played in a short space of time. Rotating or not, the body does not have enough time for recovery. Many managers have spoken out about this, and I think we are only seeing the start of it. It’s not just a case of “anybody can beat anybody”, and nick a win.. It’s a case of everyone can beat anyone, and beat them with 2 to 4 goals.
But hasn't football always been like that? Every other year all of the top teams have most of their squad playing in the Euros or world Cup with roughly the same amount of time to prepare for the season as they've had this season and that's without the benefit of having a 2-3 month layoff due to covid just a short time ago.

It's true there's been some strange results notably ourselves, pool, City and Bayern but could it be something as simple as a blip? Liverpool aren't looking as sharp but that could be they've lost a bit of hunger after finally winning the PL, City look burnt out in general under Pep and have done so since before Covid and maybe with ourselves, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs it's because we/they have mediocre managers?

The rest of Europe seem to have got their act together. Bayern are sitting at the top of their league, same as PSG, the Barca capitulation can't be blamed on fatigue, Zidane always has rocky periods at Madrid and the only other giant that isn't playing to their normal standards are Juve but after only bringing in their new manager a few months ago it's understandable.

It's quite easy to maintain squad freshness when teams have a good squad which we now do. Martial will come back fresh after his PL ban so that could give Rashford a rest with Cavani playing up top. Pogbas fitness isn't an issue because he hardly plays, give Bruno a rest by bringing in DVB. Mata and Greenwood can rotate on the right. Rotate McT, Fred and Matic for 2 positions. We now have Telles to give Shaw a rest. If AWB needs a rest then play Williams. We have 3 decent CBs in Maquire, Tuanzebe and Lindelof and even Bailly at a push for 2 positions so if the squad does suffer from burn out then that's on Ole because he has quality players to make 2 strong teams.
 

VP89

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Remember Utd Pool 0-0 in Mou's 2nd season, where we parked the bus?

Guess, that was also not parking the bus by your definition as 44% of the game was a midfield battle : https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...-League-2017-2018-Liverpool-Manchester-United

Hell, in that game, 4 of our players had their average position in the opposition half compared to 3 for Chelsea on Saturday. Look at the heatmap, you won't find a red spot running across just outside the final third.

No one's saying they didn't attack at all - that's not what parking the bus even means. All we're saying is that they played an ultra-safe form of football where they pretty much always had 4-6 on defensive duties and just 2 players on attacking duty
Again this points to the lunacy of using isolated stats to try and summarise the game.

The phases of play from United V Liverpool was in no way akin to United V Chelsea. Both sides were equally cautious for the opening 45 minutes of Saturday. It was touched upon by all, in the match day thread and in the half time analysis. Both teams were playing with fear, and Chelsea in fact had periods where they were dominating the game with 0% in their own third, before the balance shifted for the following 15 minutes in our favour. Phases of play during the game do not point in any way toward Chelsea parking the bus. The idea that this happened is stupid, Chelsea were not "ultra defensive".

Again, the fallacy of looking at isolated stats strikes.
 

Robbie Boy

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Again this points to the lunacy of using isolated stats to try and summarise the game.

The phases of play from United V Liverpool was in no way akin to United V Chelsea. Both sides were equally cautious for the opening 45 minutes of Saturday. It was touched upon by all, in the match day thread and in the half time analysis. Both teams were playing with fear, and Chelsea in fact had periods where they were dominating the game with 0% in their own third, before the balance shifted for the following 15 minutes in our favour. Phases of play during the game do not point in any way toward Chelsea parking the bus. The idea that this happened is stupid, Chelsea were not "ultra defensive".

Again, the fallacy of looking at isolated stats strikes.
I don't know how this is being disputed. The pundits literally spent the entire time discussing how both sides played with fear. The twisting of logic and stats again has been horrendous this week.
 

crossy1686

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Re the crowds point, can we just accept we haven't been good enough whether you want Ole in or out? Every single PL club has the crowd issue. Let's also not kid ourselves to think OT has some magical atmosphere that other PL don't have, if anything we are criticised for not having the best atmosphere so, if anything, it would affect us less than other teams.

This is where we are currently at in the PL: Home L, Away W, Home L, Away W, Home D. It's the definition of midtable form - 7 from 15. Yes the PL is all over the place this season and so we shouldn't rush to conculsions but simply by analysing what we are seeing on the pitch - it's completely fair to be asking serious questions of Ole.
I said that previously. We didn’t do enough to win the game. We all know about the pre season so early season form shouldn’t be judged as harshly as previous seasons.

The response was to a poster who stated that Ole’s excuses were embarrassing and I simply said he has a point if you look at the data