Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

Sack or Keep OLE?


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Mainoldo

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I was talking about the style of football, which considering SAF had the likes of Bryan Robson, Paul McGrath, Remi Moses, Norman Whiteside, Kevin Moran, Jesper Olsen, Peter Davenport and Gordon Strachan(most if not all would walk into our current team)in his squad wasn't great even taking into consideration the position we were in when he took over.

And yes we did finish 2nd in his first-full season but it was hard to watch at times, and SAF knew he needed to phase that group out and bring his own players, and that's exactly what he did.

So yeah very much a true story.
Really what side are you on. It’s like you know Ole is rubbish but just want to go against the arguments of people telling you how rubbish he is just for a debate.
 

USREDEVIL

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crazy how 1 result with 6 first team players out changes the vote from 60% keep to majority sack :wenger:
I don't agree with the current majority but I understand their viewpoint entirely. They're looking at it like Ole is just a rookie manager, we've been shit for far too long, and our players, not world beaters mind you, are at least good enough to handle the likes of Newcastle. I'll keep my Ole stay vote and re-assess at Christmas time.
 

Caesar2290

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crazy how 1 result with 6 first team players out changes the vote from 60% keep to majority sack :wenger:
Has it ever occurred to you that this was a gradual process?
Drawing against Rochdale, having 0 shots on target against AZ, losing convincingly against a relegation side, always saying that “things aren’t that bad, we need more time”. All of these things erroded any confidence that was left.
Newcastle was simply the boiling point...
 

Eriku

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Debate on a forum, whatever next??

Ole isn't making a great fist of a tough job but nowhere have I said he was rubbish, i'll leave that to others.
Nuance is old school, mate... In 2019 you say everything is either shit or brilliant, no half-measures.
 

redMundo

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Voted keep.

Literally the only reason being that Woodward will stay regardless so nothing will change with any new manager.

If we get a DOF or something similar then I’d be all for a managerial change.

May as well be “one of us” in the job if it doesn’t really matter
 

Micky Targaryen

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What has Milan got to do with United?
Never said it has anything to do with United. Just that both clubs have different standards I guess. Both manager's stats are similar in the current season, Milan deem the results as sackable, whereas United chooses to keep the manager. Whichever side of the fence you wanna be in.

Haven’t you heard? We are the new Milan.
In a way, we sort of are. Milan hired an ex-player as manager. We all know how how that went.
 

Micky Targaryen

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I'm actually alright with the idea of giving Ole one more window to save this shitshow of a season.... I'm just dreading where the club will be on the table by the time the next transfer window approaches.
 

ash_86

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If we don't get anymore injuries to Martial and Pogba we should be able to catch up point difference to top 4. Get to January and hopefully we can reenforce a couple of positions and make one final push for top4. If we get lucky with Injuries it's certainly possible.
 

Sky1981

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I'm actually alright with the idea of giving Ole one more window to save this shitshow of a season.... I'm just dreading where the club will be on the table by the time the next transfer window approaches.
Sure, because good players would love to play under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.... because... hey, probably they still have him in his 99 pose poster in their bedroom
 

slir32

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What worries me is even with 3 to 6 first team players injured we should be comfortably be beating the bottom 10 in the PL and also teams that where created 10 years ago.
 

Foxbatt

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Every manager in the big clubs have a manager that has been successful in a big league apart from the biggest club in the PL. I mean, Liverpool, City, Arsenal and Spurs. Yes Chelsea has a rookie manager too but they will kick him out without a blink the moment things start to go wrong.
These lot may not be able to dribble past an opponent but surely they can take a corner kick.
The fact they don't take a decent corner kick is entirely the fault of Ole.
The fact that we have only one CF is the entirely the fault of Ole.
He is a below average manager the sooner everyone accept it the better for the club.
 

Marcus

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If I were the Glazers I would be panicking now. Being cheap and letting United be kind of mediocre but earning money is ideal. Being cheap but having United in danger of relegation thereby affecting future earnings and sponsorship deals both present and future is surely very bad for business.
 

Bobcat

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Every manager in the big clubs have a manager that has been successful in a big league apart from the biggest club in the PL. I mean, Liverpool, City, Arsenal and Spurs. Yes Chelsea has a rookie manager too but they will kick him out without a blink the moment things start to go wrong.
These lot may not be able to dribble past an opponent but surely they can take a corner kick.
The fact they don't take a decent corner kick is entirely the fault of Ole.

The fact that we have only one CF is the entirely the fault of Ole.
He is a below average manager the sooner everyone accept it the better for the club.
:lol: Ok i get that emotions are running quite high here, but that is just absurd. We have been shite on set pieces for an eternity now, especially corners.
 

Micky Targaryen

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Sure, because good players would love to play under Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.... because... hey, probably they still have him in his 99 pose poster in their bedroom
No disagreement from me here.. I think Ole should be sacked sooner rather than later. I'm just saying give the man another window to bring in the players he wants, so we can shut up all the posters saying that Ole wasn't backed after every damn loss.
 

Strelok

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If you can earn it based on results then surely it stands to reason that you should be able to lose it based on results? You can't start off successful but when it goes sour, call it a long term rebuiding project requiring you to go on relegation form runs. His appointment was made on the assumption he could keep us winning AND make progress.

Furthermore, how many managers expect the level of leeway we give Ole based purely on calling this a 'Project'. In no other club could a manager underperform so much citing rebuild. The job of a good manager is to do both. Rebuild with continuing competetive results.
Well I didn't say anything like he should not be sacked regardless of the results. All I said was he was appointed as caretaker and earned his permanent contract thanks to his results mate.

What?

You mentioned that it's understandable to hire a manager who is a club legend while waiting for a permanent manager. So why do you think he earned his permanent manager contract? I thought Ole was meant to be a caretaker manager only, while we sort out a proper replacement?
Because he had good results I think? Especially knocking out PSG with basically a backup team?

I think it's a common knowledge that a caretaker usually is appointed while waiting for a permanent manager but if he does good enough he'd be rewarded with a permanent contract?

And even when Ole had his miracle run of games, why oh why did we offer him a permanent contract midway through his caretaker stint?
Agreed that the permanent contract was a bit hasty.

For your question maybe Ed thought Ole did good enough and should be rewarded with a permanent contract? Or he just found it was an incredible opportunity to not have to think about finding another manager ? Or a cheap scapegoat to throw under the bus when necessary?

You gotta ask Ed on this, frankly I have no idea.

---------------------
I run out of quota so gonna post here.

Honestly at the start of the season I made a bet with a friend, an Arsenal fan that Ole would not last until the 15th round. Who lose would have to buy the whole lot (our group of football friends) a drink.

On one hand I did believe in his vision/plan, still somewhat do. On the other hand I also believed that having a shit midfield gonna cost him his job.
 
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Foxbatt

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No disagreement from me here.. I think Ole should be sacked sooner rather than later. I'm just saying give the man another window to bring in the players he wants, so we can shut up all the posters saying that Ole wasn't backed after every damn loss.
The problem with this is that
1). Is he going to get the players he wants? The chances are that he would want world class players. World class players have a knack of trying to go to clubs that has a good chance of winning trophies.
So they probably don't want to come to United.
2) By the time he gets the sack we may be in much more trouble than we are right now. It means starting from scratch.
United right now is not an attractive proposition to world class players. Ole messed it up by thinking that this is the Manchester United that he played. This is not. He is no Sir Alex and this team is entirely different.
He should have forgotten about the Sanchos, the Dybalas, the DeLigts etc. He should have gone for players who are better than what he has now and that's the half of the PL players. It's the same old story of Moyes trying to buy Bale, Fabregas, Ronaldo etc. If Moyes could not get them interested in coming to United at that time United being the champions of England, what chance as Ole got with United struggling not to get involved in a relegation battle?
 

Abhinav

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The main things that come out when you watch united play are lethargic play, no one taking risks in passing/runs, poor movement and vertical runs from strikers/cmf/full backs, lack of aggression in tackling and closing down, being 2nd to second balls, poor composure in the final third and in the box.

Now all of these can be easily attributed to coaching but I think it goes beyond that. Primarily issues arise from the following reasons:

1) Fitness: Full backs, wide forwards and sometime central midfielders need to be making sprints up and down to be more dynamic and to open up the field. If you are not fit enough then you will be reluctant to make those forward sprints as you tire for the fear of leaving space behind

2) Mentality/ Attitude: Some of this is natural and some circumstantial. In all walks of life, what separates equally talented people is the mental resilience, drive, attitude. In general, there is a large mentality malaise within the squad that may also be attributed to previous managers/ and lack of leaders. Nobody on the football pitch wants to take responsibility and take risks. Everyone plays it safe so that they are not blamed for any mistakes. Its an attitude for someone who is trying to hide/ get away rather than looking to win. I think it started with LVG (remember the video sessions and emphasis on taking a touch before shooting) and then continued under Jose (calling out individuals in public). Lack of leaders within the group means that nobody challenges the team mates when they take the safe option

3) Lack of Confidence in themselves and in each other: This is primarily because of constant failures and leads to players doubting themselves, taking an extra touch, not taking risks. One of the things that Ole changed when he came last year was to instil confidence and with each victory the group became more confident. This went on till we were winning but as soon as we lost to Arsenal, the self doubts came back and the players crumbled. Also highlights the mental fragility of some of our players.

4) Training: I do feel that movement on the pitch can be trained/coached by practice and repetitions on the training pitch. Our strikers don’t make simple movements like coming in a little deep to lay off the ball and then turning the defender and making the run behind. That should be easily be coached and practiced

5) Talent/ skill: The last and the most contributing factor is the lack of skill. Our midfielders and forwards are not able to execute basic skills such as first touch, passing, dribbling, finishing at the highest level. If you compare our forwards to players such as Aguero, RVP, Salah, there is a clear gap in talent. Those players fashioned chances on their own in the box through tight control, quick feet, movement. Similarly, our midfielders apart from Pogba don’t have the skill to accurately play 50-60 yard passes, to dribble in central areas, play into the strikers feet. And the first touch of most of our players is so horribly inconsistent that it constantly leads to moves breaking down.

So while issue 1,2,3,4 should be to an extent tackled with better coaching, all of them take time to improve and the results might not be immediately visible. The fact that it is a combination of these factors and not just one isolated factor makes it much harder to create and sustain changes. Thats why I feel its to premature to judge Ole and the staff because what we see is the result on the pitch. They might be working on all of the above and yet players have not yet internalised these to make sustainable improvements. And with some players, you can try to coach on all 4 aspects but they may show an incapability to learn. In which case, you need to get new players in, which again takes time.
 

Enigma_87

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So while issue 1,2,3,4 should be to an extent tackled with better coaching, all of them take time to improve and the results might not be immediately visible. The fact that it is a combination of these factors and not just one isolated factor makes it much harder to create and sustain changes. Thats why I feel its to premature to judge Ole and the staff because what we see is the result on the pitch. They might be working on all of the above and yet players have not yet internalised these to make sustainable improvements. And with some players, you can try to coach on all 4 aspects but they may show an incapability to learn. In which case, you need to get new players in, which again takes time.
Compare it to what Lampard is doing and trying to implement at Chelsea - that's clearly visible and took him 8 games. Ole has been here since more than 9 months.

You blame the players but it's also possible Ole is unable to put his ideas across.
 

roonster09

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He should be sacked. Excuse is always that rebuild is too big and he needs at least 3 years but rebuild will always be bigger when you don't hire good managers. Also time should be given to the managers who show they are capable of turning it around or who shows they deserve it based on results/progress.

Signing right players is part of the rebuild but building a system to get maximum out of them is the toughest part. From what I have seen, I don't think Ole is capable of that.

Rebuild is needed and long term planning should be there for any club but that doesn't mean short term goals should be ignored.
 

Enigma_87

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Alright. I do think we've been very unlucky to miss our only striker for 2 months this early into the season. If Arsenal lose Auba or Chelsea lose their inform striker maybe they'd drop prints too. I'm glad we'd soon be getting most back againt pool and hope we start producing some good performances.
Martial is injury prone so that was a bit expected. Auba is incredibly fit he barely misses a game:
https://www.transfermarkt.com/pierre-emerick-aubameyang/verletzungen/spieler/58864

Before the season started it was to be expected these turn of events.

We have 5 games in 13 days after the break. With a short squad we would probably pick more injuries. If those players are rushed it can backfire quickly, especially the likes of Shaw - as proven in the past.
 

JSW Devil

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But Mou did that, played to the strength of the players, most fans wanted him gone too.

Nobody cant seem to win
Mou is a toxic narcissistic manager who wasn’t unsuccessful at United he won trophies and finished second to city the best of the rest so to speak and backed further I’m pretty sure would of made a greater challenge on the title but he’s always capable of imploding and creating problems that never existed. What we have now is an interim manager become permanent not based on quality or ability just based on a few games and we are paying the price for that, its likely to get even worse given the fixtures to come.

A manger on Mourinho’s level who plays more attractive football I’m pretty sure would be backed by the board it’s not like we don’t spend money it’s just not been spent wisely give Pep or Klop half of what we have spent do you think we would be in this mess? And this is the whole point give time and money to the right manager.
 
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Mainoldo

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Debate on a forum, whatever next??

Ole isn't making a great fist of a tough job but nowhere have I said he was rubbish, i'll leave that to others.
Not rubbish? Got voted Cardiff’s worst manager in recent history. Has proven nothing but a title with a team that would probably lose to SE Dons and once sacked will never get a job in England again. But this is who you think is okay and should lead us back towards the top?
 

Enigma_87

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I was talking about the style of football, which considering SAF had the likes of Bryan Robson, Paul McGrath, Remi Moses, Norman Whiteside, Kevin Moran, Jesper Olsen, Peter Davenport and Gordon Strachan(most if not all would walk into our current team)in his squad wasn't great even taking into consideration the position we were in when he took over.

And yes we did finish 2nd in his first-full season but it was hard to watch at times, and SAF knew he needed to phase that group out and bring his own players, and that's exactly what he did.

So yeah very much a true story.
Ole is never as good as Fergie and never will be. Every comparison like that is pretty much void.

He's a poor manager and will soon fall into oblivion after he's sacked. Sometimes it's better to call a spade a spade.
 

JSW Devil

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  • Where did I say it was impossible to get a striker in? Next
  • Why is it a gamble to bring a club Legend in when we were looking for a period of stability? And how did throwing money at proven Managers go?
  • We don't necessarily need top talent, just players with above average ability who are prepared to commit to the cause, and not just looking at the club as a stepping-stone, and hopefully can hack playing for the club.
  • Oh right so a better class of Manager would have made Madrid/Juventus cough up how much United wanted for Pogba? Interesting.
  • Nope, not in a million years, but then I don't think any of the dwindling band supporting Ole getting more time have said he would.
Maybe you didn’t say impossible but we didn’t get one did we when it was so glaringly obvious we needed one and he had the end of last season and all of the summer window why wait till the last minute to sell/loan your recognised strikers.

it’s a gamble because we based his appointment from an interim manger to permanent based on a few games he did well in and not based on credentials or experience and do you think what we are seeing is stability? Being a club legend has nothing to do with it.

You really think we don’t need top talent, wow that’s borderline crazy take any league winning team from any of the recognised big leagues and they all have top talent.

A top manager might persuade Pogba to change his mind but if not there were plenty of clubs wanting Pogba if he wants to go you might as well get what you can because keeping wouldn’t change that.

Your last point makes everything you base your arguments for giving Ole time at our top club redundant and not based on any logic, facts or even acknowledging your own eyes as to what your seeing week in week out, I mean two holding midfield players against the mighty Newcastle even I knew we were going to struggle as soon as I seen the team.
 

Rood

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Has it ever occurred to you that this was a gradual process?
Drawing against Rochdale, having 0 shots on target against AZ, losing convincingly against a relegation side, always saying that “things aren’t that bad, we need more time”. All of these things erroded any confidence that was left.
Newcastle was simply the boiling point...
Ye I get that and Newcastle was the one that worries me the most as well TBF, but still it's a big swing in sentiment based essentially on 1 match - it's the standard 'all or nothing' way of things nowadays


I don't agree with the current majority but I understand their viewpoint entirely. They're looking at it like Ole is just a rookie manager, we've been shit for far too long, and our players, not world beaters mind you, are at least good enough to handle the likes of Newcastle. I'll keep my Ole stay vote and re-assess at Christmas time.
Which is a more reasonable timeframe, but realistically Ole is going to need at least 2 more windows to get a team together.
If results continue like this though then he's not going to get that so there will have to be some improvement.
 

Abhinav

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Compare it to what Lampard is doing and trying to implement at Chelsea - that's clearly visible and took him 8 games. Ole has been here since more than 9 months.

You blame the players but it's also possible Ole is unable to put his ideas across.
Lampard inherited a squad that finished third, won the Euro league (minus hazard plus Pulisic) and was already doing a lot of things right. Lampard just built on some of the ideas that had been drilled by Sarri and Conte and is making adjustments to them.

Ole has the unenviable task of changing some of the things which are deep rooted. It could very well be that Ole is not able to get his ideas across. But none of these players really redeemed themselves under Jose either, so I am more inclined to believe that a large share is on the players.
 

Enigma_87

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Lampard inherited a squad that finished third, won the Euro league (minus hazard plus Pulisic) and was already doing a lot of things right. Lampard just built on some of the ideas that had been drilled by Sarri and Conte and is making adjustments to them.

Ole has the unenviable task of changing some of the things which are deep rooted. It could very well be that Ole is not able to get his ideas across. But none of these players really redeemed themselves under Jose either, so I am more inclined to believe that a large share is on the players.
It's quite visible what Lampard is trying to do on the pitch - not so Ole. Losing their best player and unable to replace him is a very serious task on one hand. Unable to get 'his type' of players due to transfer ban too.

Last year Hazard accounted for 21 goals and 17 assists - more than anyone else in the team. This is a huge loss and Pulisic is someone for the future, not one that can replace him straight away.

Almost the same set of players finished 2nd 18 months ago which is to suggest they aren't shite as some are making out to be. Also Ole had 150m to reinforce the team. Choosing to spend it all on defence is on him.
 

Wolff

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That's wildly optimistic to say at least :D
How about this for a bet. I say Ole picks it up. Even by Christmas Utd. Is top six. He will be here all season and start the next. If I’m right, you go back to your Swansea forum and never post here again. If I’m wrong I will do the same. There is no way you are a Man Utd fan. And if you are, one of the most reactionary and clueless there is. I can only think of Haram in the same category.. Nevertheless.. Bet on?
 

RAVred

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isn't that what ole's brigade is about? Needing to back him up with cash in January, 3 trasnfer window and all that?
When he has shown no tactical prowess or managerial pedigree to justify this, by the way.

He literally hasnt show anything good other than the initial momentum/morale based run we had when he was interim.
 

Sky1981

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Well I didn't say anything like he should not be sacked regardless of the results. All I said was he was appointed as caretaker and earned his permanent contract thanks to his results mate.


Because he had good results I think? Especially knocking out PSG with basically a backup team?

I think it's a common knowledge that a caretaker usually is appointed while waiting for a permanent manager but if he does good enough he'd be rewarded with a permanent contract?



Agreed that the permanent contract was a bit hasty.

For your question maybe Ed thought Ole did good enough and should be rewarded with a permanent contract? Or he just found it was an incredible opportunity to not have to think about finding another manager ? Or a cheap scapegoat to throw under the bus when necessary?

You gotta ask Ed on this, frankly I have no idea.

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I run out of quota so gonna post here.

Honestly at the start of the season I made a bet with a friend, an Arsenal fan that Ole would not last until the 15th round. Who lose would have to buy the whole lot (our group of football friends) a drink.

On one hand I did believe in his vision/plan, still somewhat do. On the other hand I also believed that having a shit midfield gonna cost him his job.
Ole was recommended by SAF (I read that somewhere), to be fair to ed Ole's winning run is hard to top and if he doesn't offer him a full time contract we will be blaming him still. At that point 1-2 mths onwards isn't going to make much different, it's better for the players to have certainty if Ole is indeed getting the job.

(off course, hindsight is wonderful, but wasn't so hard to believe at that time)