Oh, I thought you were 'Ole out', sorry.
I'm not assuming. I'm saying it's very realistic that we get around 80 points. IF that is enough to win(unlikely, but still), then I ask that question.
Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)
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I'm not assuming. I'm saying it's very realistic that we get around 80 points. IF that is enough to win(unlikely, but still), then I ask that question.
People want Ole out because they think he's not good enough to win us the league title. Of course if he proves us wrong and wins the title we'll want him to stay and change our mind then. As I said, this question just has no point. The answer is obvious regardless of your stance.
It's like asking someone from the opposite side, someone who thinks Ole is the best manager in the world for us " If we finish 8th and trophyless, will you still want Ole to stay ?", of course he'll say no. I don't think he'll say anything else.
So yeah I really don't see the point of such questions. It's like squeezing any positive comment from some one who wants him to leave. People don't want Ole to leave for the sake of it. They think he's not good enough to deliver the big prizes for us. If he does, we'll change our opinion, that's all in it really.
We're playing nothing like a team capable of ending the season on 80 points.
65 is a more realistic target.
The last 24 league games say 81 points. I'll focus on that until we hit a rough patch in the PL(not the CL).
He wasnt all that good at Molde either apparently.
Solskjaer won back-to-back league titles in 2011 and 2012 during his first spell with Molde and left to take charge of Cardiff in January 2014.
He was unable to keep the Bluebirds in the Premier League and lasted just eight months in Wales. Molde, meanwhile, won a league title without him.
Solskjaer returned to Molde in October 2015, but only managed to guide his side to sixth and two second-placed finishes before leaving for England and they are doing fine again in his absence.
Solskjaer won back-to-back league titles in 2011 and 2012 during his first spell with Molde and left to take charge of Cardiff in January 2014.
He was unable to keep the Bluebirds in the Premier League and lasted just eight months in Wales. Molde, meanwhile, won a league title without him.
Solskjaer returned to Molde in October 2015, but only managed to guide his side to sixth and two second-placed finishes before leaving for England and they are doing fine again in his absence.
The question isn’t whether another manager get more out of this current group of players. SAF could in his day. So what?
The question is could any manager we have a realistic chance of hiring get more out of this current group of players. Far from obvious. Until it is, why not support Ole?
Far from obvious for you though. For me for example yes I do believe Poch can extract more out of these players than Ole.
In our last 9 matches in all comps, we've conceded first in 7 of them. Leipzig wasn't an one-off, we've had this 'rough patch' the whole of this season. It's been the running theme of this season, that we don't begin to play until the 2nd half.
I'll ask a question. In the PL, which performances have been good from start to finish, out of the 10 matches?
I am getting a bottle of champagne too. Should throw a party or something.
We could draw Molde in the Europa League. Imagine us getting knocked out by Molde.
Win/win.
People in this thread will lose their minds and we can focus on the PL
Doubt it. Being a football supporter and independent thinking aren't terribly compatible. They will say it as though it was obvious after Ole has been sacked, like a BT Sport Champions League panel.
I Iiked this in today's Guardian:
"Every club make mistakes. Every business makes mistakes. But a proper apparatus, a cogent identity, a few more brains in the room, some bravery and strategy, might not only have minimised United’s mistakes but learned from them. It might have given their squad a leaner, more logical shape. It might have helped establish a playing style that works with more than 40% possession. It might have foreseen the dangers in appointing a souvenir DVD as the manager of one of the world’s biggest clubs. It might have snapped them out of their toxic cycle of blame-and-burn. "
Souvenir DVD managerIf he wins the league then at least City and Liverpool would have to fall off a cliff. He would obviously keep his job and have another 3 year contract.Still, it's a hypothetical.
Would a league title make any of you change your opinion? I want it in writing in case it happensI should have done it last season when top 4 looked very unlikely!
Ill now put it to you.
If we dont finish top 4 will you then concede he isnt good enough and needs to go?
I'm not sure if it definitely means that he's not good enough, but it probably means that he has to go anyways. We've fired every other manager post Fergie for failing to get CL football, so I want us to be consistent. We need to draw the line somewhere.
I'm not necessarily gonna be vocal about it. But I will no longer try to stop the crackhead hillbillies waving their pitchforks at the gates
Exactly. His successor's at Molde have had better records than him too.
When Ole left the first time, the 2013 season he finished 6th on 44 points (but did win Norwegian Cup). The next season, Tor Ole Skullerud won them their first ever double (League + Norwegian Cup), setting a new league points record with 71 points, finishing 11 points ahead of Rosenborg. He lost 3 out of 30 matches, winning 22.
When Ole left for us in 2018, the 2018 season he finished 2nd on 58 points. In Erling Moe's first full season in 2019, he too also won the league with 68 points, undefeated at home, 14 points ahead of 2nd. He lost 4 out of 30, winning 21. In Ole's previous 4 years, he failed to win the league or Norwegian Cup once (6th 52 pts/5th 45 pts/2nd 54 pts/2nd 58 pts).
Bearing in mind Molde have rich owners and are considered somewhat a cheque book team. His stint there, especially the 2nd, could have been better when you think about this is supposed to be the Man Utd manager we're talking about.
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See you cant give a straight yes or no either. Ive said this before, no one wanted Ole to fail. What would be more fantastic than an ex player coming in and winning the league? The thing is lot of people, me included, doesnt think its going to happen. Maybe if he had some experienced forward thinking coaches it may be different, but you got 3 novices and an has been who couldnt do any good at Hull, coaching the first team.I'm not sure if it definitely means that he's not good enough, but it probably means that he has to go anyways. We've fired every other manager post Fergie for failing to get CL football, so I want us to be consistent. We need to draw the line somewhere.
I'm not necessarily gonna be vocal about it. But I will no longer try to stop the crackhead hillbillies waving their pitchforks at the gates
So I don't know why people keep referring to his Molde career. He wasn't anything that special in such a low level league, god knows why they think he should be manager of Manchester United.
Because I can think of a scenario where we finish 5th and I still maybe want him to stay. Example:
We get 75 points and lose out on goal difference, the distance up to 1st place is only 10 points, and we win the Europa League.
Your example was a bit less black and white. Winning the PL is always great. Finishing 5th isn't always a massive failure.
How is finishing 5th not a massive failure when it means you end up qualifying for Europa
Yeah but what’s your answer? Poch?
Well his replacement has 24 points after 11 games, which incidentally is the exact same record as Poch in his last full season after 11 games (but in 2017/18 Poch had only 23 points at this stage).
So the guy we fired has come in and improved them, and got them in a title race.
Ergo.. Poch is shit.
Yeah the lack of experienced coaches thing is a massive gripe and I cannot understand it either
I've got a question for you @OleBoiii
Do you think it's possible that another manager can get more out of this team than Ole?
Do you think it's possible that another manager can get more out of this team than Ole?
No idea. He was good in his first stint, as you referred to, he won back to back leagues. But his 2nd spell wasn't anything special. After all he won nothing in 4 seasons. His best 'success' was in his first return season in 2015, when he finished top of his Europa League group ahead of Fehnerbahce, Celtic & Ajax. They got knocked out the very next round, but that's what everyone thinks of.
Finishing 5th and winning a domestic cup would result in him getting the sack. Remember VG? Winning the Europa League would probably save him.
When did I mention Poch?
I don't mind who comes in, as long as they're attacking, progressive and will coach the living daylights out of us. Be that Poch, Nagelsmann or Rose, I don't mind.
Mourinho with Spurs are looking decent, but it's a honeymoon period still imo. Let's see what they're like when they go through a tough spell. I want to see if Kane and Son are happy playing in their own half then.
Edit: Oh you were being sarcastic.
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But that same year he ended up 5th in the league?
No point replying to him. He said our current form suggests 81 points, and that he wants to wait to see this supposed rough patch in the PL!
When I asked if he was aware that we've conceded first in 7 out of our last 9 matches, and which matches have been good from start to finish in the PL this season..? it's been crickets.
Of course it's possible. In fact, I'd say it's very likely. Apart from Klopp there's no telling exactly who, though. It's all just guesses. On top of that: "doing well with little" is not gonna solve our long-term goals of winning consistent championships. In Everton, Moyes did well relative to his resources and also knew the league. He still failed more than I thought was humanly possible with a team of champions.
I want to see what we can build from here first. Sacking Ole now is ridiculously rash, imo.
Actually, I don't really rate the smaller cup wins(EL included). Just winning the EL alone isn't good enough for me. We need to get a good "score" in the league as well. And even then it might not be good enough(imo).
4th every season would keep him in the job indefinitely.
I know it's confusing
.2015, first season back he finished 6th on 52 pts.
2016, 5th on 45 pts.
2017, 2nd on 54 pts.
2018, 2nd on 59 pts.
Winning nothing.
Mengi might find himself in a spot of bother. There's a screenshot doing the round on twitter that he's liked a post by Sky Sports, saying if we lose against City, Ole will be out.
Not if I could decide. At some point we must expect more.
That point is not now, though. When I look at these players I don't see "Champions". And the difference between "title challenger" and "champion" tends to be marginal, so we don't belong in that category either.
If we make a title challenge or win, then we have overachieved.
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Liked posts mean nothing, he could have done that scrolling down by mistake without realising.
I don't think that's solely the role of the manager anymore, at least not in the top European clubs. United's problem is that we are trying to stick to 'tradition' and give our managers full autonomy to build a team in their own vision or likeness. What's the average life of a manager these days? 2-3 years? Is it feasible to hit the reset button every 2-3 years, or are we so naive as a club that we believe the next SAF is just around the corner?
Now I'm not saying that recruitment should be completely autonomous from the manager, of course the manager has to have a say. What I'm saying is that the club should have a vision of the type of football we want to play, the type of players we want to sign, the foundations upon which each team is built. That should to a point remove the need for a manager to come in and instantly have to sell this 4 players, need 3 transfer windows and another 300m to shape the team how the like. You can't go from Moyes, to LVG, to Mourinho to Ole as managers. What does that say about us?
'Oh, we want someone to come in and take a long terms view. Actually that didn't work, LVG just had a pretty good World Cup, and has experience, let's give him a go. Oh no, bad idea! Let's change our outlook completely and go with a guy that will guarantee us sort term success. This really isn't working, let's revert to the 'United way' and give time and money to a completely unproven manager who knows the club.'
Does that sound to you like a club that even has any sort of strategy beyond what the manager themselves believe in? The problem is that there is this belief that no good can come from sacking Ole because we'll have to start again. Why? Why do we have to start again? This club needs an overhaul, from top to bottom. And that includes Ole, because it is the complete ineptitude of the board above him that has resulted in him managing this team for the past two years, but that still does not absolve him of his lack of ability as a manager.
Sorry, I know my reply is a bit off topic in the context of your discussion, but just reading that first line, and hearing people like Keane talking about giving Ole time to get things right has me wondering. I think a club with the resources of Manchester United should he ahead of the curve with regards to the way a modern club is operated, and our philosophy should extend beyond the manager of the club, especially when the average life cycle of a manager is so short these days.
In short, I think we're refusing to pull the trigger on Ole because the people running the club are afraid of looking foolish again, and don't have the ability to set the club on the right track themselves. Look at Bayern. They sacked their manager and won the CL later in the season. Zidane is under pressure at Real, after how many league and CL titles? Imagine if Ole won the league with this team. He'd have a Moyes-like 6 year contract the next morning. We're so juvenile and badly run its sickening. The only thing that separates us from any other poorly run club right now is how much money we have available to spend, and our reputation.
They both where on for pace, while we pushed forward. We almost made it to. I don’t think much of people taking the piss on things that worked for the better. You might like to watch how many second balls we managed after that, which have been one of our Achilles for a while. I don’t mind idiots, but I do when they take the piss and don’t know what the f... they are talking about..God the world is full of dumb people...
A little bit nuance needed. It’s the time of the keyboard corona warriors. With fans back in the stadium it wouldn’t be anywhere near 50/50. We are all disappointed and can point our finger at mistakes. But we can also see beyond that.
I’ve spoken to a few this past week. What is labelled as arrogant is thinking we should walk RB Leipzig. The feck up in CL was Istanbul. That said, it’s amazing we didn’t turn up for this game. 100% this is on Ole. Somehow he is not getting through to a few of our players. Or there are other issues. But this place has become a wankfest of self pity and a fallos compensating what is soon to be a decade of failure.But for me, it’s like a gathering of losers who didn’t have to work for anything in their life. Stop with the fecking moaning and get over it! We might even loose on Saturday, but we do the score in January. And May. Neither the Club, Ole or our players is what’s pathetic right now, it is a loud small internet fraction of our fans. I’m embarrassed!
For me a good man manager is those who turn their players into winners , who puts the right winning mentality to his players ,who puts discipline to the team. Not the one who tried to be buddies with all his players , never criticize the players because he afraid of their fanbase , pampering players ego on media. Ole is never going to have the players respect if he wasn't a club legend at United , just look at his stint at cardiff , easily their worst ever manager according to both their fans & players themselves.
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Considering that the defensive mistakes consist of the same players making the same mistakes game after game, year after year (AWB losing his man at the far post, Maguire not taking command, de Gea being a coward), what is there suggesting that they’ll suddenly improve under the current management?
Welcome to the 20th century managing style. And you can pick any line of business you’d like. And I mean anything! You can read about business models, psychology or even sociological organisations theory. The world isn’t like that anymore! And you are full of shit! You won’t find a single quote of a player in Cardiff saying a bad word about Ole! And for perspective. How long would I need for turning you into a winner? Or even your club?
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