Would you take Conte at United?

Would you want Conte at United?

  • Yes

    Votes: 586 37.9%
  • No

    Votes: 961 62.1%

  • Total voters
    1,547

TrustInJanuzaj

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Wow so a manager going nowhere who has spent unparalleled funds and has not improved the club is a more sensible option than someone with a proven track record of winning the league in high pressure situations time and again?
I don't think Conte is a perfect fit for United at all, but to say Ole is a better option just seems daft.
We have probably the worst manager in the league.
With the exception of Steve Bruce at Newcastle there isn't another club in the PL that would trade managers with us.
Yes, I get it lets pretend Ole has done no good for the club. Seems popular on here but I can't be arsed with it so have a good weekend.
 

JPRouve

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Wow so a manager going nowhere who has spent unparalleled funds and has not improved the club is a more sensible option than someone with a proven track record of winning the league in high pressure situations time and again?
I don't think Conte is a perfect fit for United at all, but to say Ole is a better option just seems daft.
We have probably the worst manager in the league.
With the exception of Steve Bruce at Newcastle there isn't another club in the PL that would trade managers with us.
I don't think that it's the point being made. Some fans seem to see Ole's philosophy in a totally different light than what some of us see and they also seem to think that stability is about the manager more than the club itself. We also have people that seemingly don't care one bit about Murtough and Fletcher, they don't value their roles or their importance when it comes to building and maintaining the culture of the club.

While I appreciate Ole's role in putting us in our current situation, I don't think that he has done it alone, I also don't think that he has instilled a philosophy that is incompatible with managers like Conte or Ten Hag, Ole helped create a malleable squad which is great for us because we can take almost any direction. Someone like Mourinho would be questionable because he seems to have been unable to work effectively with young players for the better part of the last decade and we have a lot of promising young players, Conte seems to work well with young players with a mix of tough love and genuine encouragement. I'm less familiar with Ten Hag man management but Ajax is built around continuously bringing young to very young players into the first team, so he is used to that.
 

Trequarista10

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Out of curiosity, has Conte ever joined a team mid season? I'm curious what he'd do with a new team mid season, which likely wouldn't have the players in place to play with wing backs. Would he play wing backs regardless, or would he play 4 at the back until he could bring in some players in a transfer window?
 

JPRouve

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Out of curiosity, has Conte ever joined a team mid season? I'm curious what he'd do with a new team mid season, which likely wouldn't have the players in place to play with wing backs. Would he play wing backs regardless, or would he play 4 at the back until he could bring in some players in a transfer window?
He has done it earlier in his career and he has used back 4 quite a bit in his career. There is no guarantee that he would definitely play a back four, though I worry that he would.
 

Rocksy

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This. Conte is as proven at winning as any football club in Italy or England can get, not washed out as a coach and just mad for victory himself. The only reason you lot can afford to snub him now, in spite of having a squad as good as any of your domestic rivals (PSG and Bayern are a class above, for individuals or team culture), is you are not used to winning any more, which is just sad because there is simply no urgency from you to get there any more.
Great post. The Mourinho comparisons are just wrong. Mourinho plays a deeper defense and looks to break from deep. Forwards are left to work it out themselves. Conte is all about proactive pressing, with set patterns of play. Everything is properly coordinated.

Fair enough, it might not be AS attractive as Klopp or Pep but the fact is that all teams who win a title and score as many goals as his teams do will play a fair share of good stuff. There are lots of examples of Conte being creative with players and teams: 4-2-4, Moses and Luiz having great seasons at WB and Sweeper, Hakimi playing very high and wide for Inter. He’s a top coach.

I know the concern with younger players but United can set a transfer policy and make it clear in talks. Conte did buy old players at Inter but also bought Sensi, Barella, Lukaku and Hakimi. He also used Martinez and Bastoni as young players.
 
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Rocksy

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Out of curiosity, has Conte ever joined a team mid season? I'm curious what he'd do with a new team mid season, which likely wouldn't have the players in place to play with wing backs. Would he play wing backs regardless, or would he play 4 at the back until he could bring in some players in a transfer window?
I think he’d adapt. He played 4-2-4 early in his career and his goal was to do that at Chelsea. It didn’t work at Chelsea, which was why he switched to 3-4-3 after 7 games. He’s not wedded to a back 3…
 

Superden

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interesting idea some people have about staying on a journey to possibly winning things rather than actually winning things and dealing with some of the upheaval l it may involve...
 

dinostar77

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It means exactly what it says. Only someone clueless simply hires someone for their CV alone. Despite what some people think, being a cultural fit for a football club (or a business) is hugely important and plays a massive role in determining success. I don't care how good a CV Mourinho had, he was never the right fit for Utd which is ultimately why he was a failure. Conte is a world class manager, he's just not a Manchester Utd manager and I would bet good money he wouldn't be an overall success here.

We have had a recent thread on here about the Utd way holding us back. That couldn't be further from the truth, what has held us back is trying so hard to move in all sorts of directions rather than being patient and following a strategic vision for the club. Ole has done a great job despite what some fans will say and he's put down the foundations for continued success if the Hierarchy are smart. Changing approach and resetting all of that again for a short term manager like Conte, who is clearly so far from our cultural and tactical values is a massive backwards step.
:lol:

How do you think club CEOs, Owners and DoF judge managers especially at the elite level? By their CV and what they have won.

Whether managers philosophy fits the club is also taken into account, but not always.

The days of Wenger and Fergie are long gone. Managers are now in for 3-4 seasons. The difference between Mourinho being here and potentially Conte is the club now have Murtough and Fletcher in positions to oversee the long term position of the club. They can plan for it and the likes of Conte now come in and train the squad they are given. This is more like the continental approach of Bayern, Juventus, Madrid etc.

That's why I'm not worried about another Mourinho situation as the club now have the infrastructure to plan according.
 

dinostar77

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I think he’d adapt. He played 4-2-4 early in his career and his goal was to do that at Chelsea. It didn’t work at Chelsea, which was why he switched to 3-4-3 after 7 games. He’s not wedded to a back 3…
Yeh your right, italian manager are flexible tactically and normally change tactics and team shape during games 2-3 times. Especially in SerieA.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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:lol:

How do you think club CEOs, Owners and DoF judge managers especially at the elite level? By their CV and what they have won.

Whether managers philosophy fits the club is also taken into account, but not always.

The days of Wenger and Fergie are long gone. Managers are now in for 3-4 seasons. The difference between Mourinho being here and potentially Conte is the club now have Murtough and Fletcher in positions to oversee the long term position of the club. They can plan for it and the likes of Conte now come in and train the squad they are given. This is more like the continental approach of Bayern, Juventus, Madrid etc.

That's why I'm not worried about another Mourinho situation as the club now have the infrastructure to plan according.
Through a combination of CV, Tactical philosophy, and cultural fit which is the same as any other well run institution out there. Sure tactics and culture aren't always considered, but at Manchester Utd, one of the world's biggest clubs it should always be because it's intrinsic to the very heart and soul of this club. Employing Mourinho was soul destroying. I don't care about the trophies, it was a genuine pain to follow the football club which is something that Ole realised and rectified. I'm not for one second saying we shouldn't modernise as an institution and football club, of course we should as you always have to. But modernising doesn't mean throwing away important values just to recreate another soulless City or Chelsea team.

Look perhaps you are right on Fletcher and Murtough, but I think most of the cultural reboot has been down to Ole and it's delivered our best team and best entertainment post Fergie in my opinion. Is Ole good enough to win big? It seems increasingly unlikely and I do think we need to think hard at the season's end about a successor if we fall short but I truly think it has to be someone who matches in all departments; CV, Culture and tactics. Conte falls short on culture and the right tactical fit to be a Man Utd manager and no amount of mythical 'falling standards' can convince me otherwise.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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interesting idea some people have about staying on a journey to possibly winning things rather than actually winning things and dealing with some of the upheaval l it may involve...
Depends how you see it. The journey is far more important than the destination for me. Let me just enjoy watching my team most weekends is my first requirement and neither Moyes, LVG or Mourinho got anywhere near as close to that as Ole. Winning some cup doesn't alleviate a whole season of shite football.
 

JPRouve

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:lol:

How do you think club CEOs, Owners and DoF judge managers especially at the elite level? By their CV and what they have won.

Whether managers philosophy fits the club is also taken into account, but not always.

The days of Wenger and Fergie are long gone. Managers are now in for 3-4 seasons. The difference between Mourinho being here and potentially Conte is the club now have Murtough and Fletcher in positions to oversee the long term position of the club. They can plan for it and the likes of Conte now come in and train the squad they are given. This is more like the continental approach of Bayern, Juventus, Madrid etc.

That's why I'm not worried about another Mourinho situation as the club now have the infrastructure to plan according.
Wenger and Fergie were exceptions during their own time. Managers never had an average tenure longer than 3-4 seasons.
 

Abraxas

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Somebody like Ten Haag is an option that makes logical sense whereas Conte is not. You have to look at what the club are trying to do to see what a good appointment might be. It is clear some have very little strategic thinking, the limit of what they can see is a list of honours without understanding that the probability of achieving that is related to how they work within the confines of a club. In this case, it is our club.

Not everything we have done has worked or come to fruition but a lot of money has been spent on young players and there is a lot of hope and planning that's been placed around the youth system. Ole may not have played as many as people like, which is probably partly down to the insane scrutiny he is under, but it's clear the club value it.

We also want ambitious football. It's not being pulled off at the moment hence the constant criticism about it, but then by the same token fans advocate the likes of Conte who is at best described as a pragmatist. The truth is fans do not know what they want but the club presumably do, one minute it is trophies at any costs and the next it is great football. Well, to get both you certainly need a manager that plays attacking football at the outset otherwise half of that equation is down the toilet.

The next manager has to be an attacking manager, value youth (where good enough), and absolutely must mesh with the club. It's not a case of appointing anybody that's won things. It's about appointing somebody to win things that is most likely to be a success because they already fit with the fans expectations of football, the new structure we have and the ownership.
 
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I agree, appointing managers with different playstyles hurt us in the past, but we just have to hope, that the club learned that lesson and will secure it never happening again.
Appointment of a Conte would be proof we learnt nothing...
About the squad: if anything we have a pretty flexible squad. I don't think, we would have major issues creating a Conte system. Have a look at youtube on the channel Atlantis football. He summarizes Conte and his doings, he isn't inflexible and he certainly isn't a destroyer like Mourinho. I fact, it seems like he is happy to have a great offensive as long as defense is organized and secure. That sounds pretty Fergie to me...
clearly you haven't followed him closely. He doesn't compromise on personnel nor tactics. You give him what he wants or he blows his top publically. He also won stand for any bad press without the club defending him in public. He isn't also known for a love of youth. He is very un Fergie like in most things apart from being a serial winner


If anything, our squad is has the player material to make lots of systems work. Wingbacks might be an issue, ok, but with Laird, maybe not even that. Add to that, that it isn't like the "opportunity costs" would be astronomical. It isn't like we would have to abandon an awesome playstyle for some unknown, unproven stuff......

.....
With responses like this it's hard to take you seriously:

He plays a strike 3-4-3-/3-5-2 hybrid.
He operates a specific type of 3 man box to box midfield

He prefers a striker pairing to 2
wingers/wise forwards and a 9

If he doesn't fancy a player. He will bin him. No matter the player. With him
you won't know who it is.

His playing style wouldn't necessarily be the issue. It's the formation.


In terms of the squad specifically:
We have an expensively assembled cb collection
He will insist on bin at least 3 (if we are lucky and he likes the current best 3) as not to his level. He won't even want them on the bench and it's unlikely any in our youth set up would be up to his standards.

He will want 4 attacking wbs who can also defend. That means he will bin Dalot and Awb. Possibly teles too. Maybe if we are lucky he might like a laird


In midfieid he'd want 3 box to men. We'd need to recruit him at least 3 top players to complement Bruno, pogba, mctominay, fred. In one window or else.


Upfront is were all the headaches would be. We have greenwood, Sancho, cr7, cavani, rashford, martial, elanga lingard,
To go into 3 roles 2 times. 2 of which he prefers strikers. Not forgetting he might not even like most of them. Not forgetting our fans love to moan whenever we have a boss who bins wingers ..


All this would be on the table. Yet we are club not known for moving players on quickly let alone for good money

People need to stop conflating Conte's amazing winner cv with him being a good fit for any job. A Real Madrid desperate for a top manager for example have avoided him strictly for such reasons.
 
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Somebody like Ten Haag is an option that makes logical sense whereas Conte is not. You have to look at what the club are trying to do to see what a good appointment might be. It is clear some have very little strategic thinking, the limit of what they can see is a list of honours without understanding that the probability of achieving that is related to how they work within the confines of a club. In this case, it is our club.

Not everything we have done has worked or come to fruition but a lot of money has been spent on young players and there is a lot of hope and planning that's been placed around the youth system. Ole may not have played as many as people like, which is probably partly down to the insane scrutiny he is under, but it's clear the club value it.

We also want ambitious football. It's not being pulled off at the moment hence the constant criticism about it, but then by the same token fans advocate the likes of Conte who is at best described as a pragmatist. The truth is fans do not know what they want but the club presumably do, one minute it is trophies at any costs and the next it is great football. Well, to get both you certainly need a manager that plays attacking football at the outset otherwise half of that equation is down the toilet.

The next manager has to be an attacking manager, value youth (where good enough), and absolutely must mesh with the club. It's not a case of appointing anybody that's won things. It's about appointing somebody to win things that is most likely to be a success because they already fit with the fans expectations of football, the new structure we have and the ownership.
Ptetty much this
 

Forevergiggs1

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No the suggestion is he's a Jose type figure who could fall out with himself in an empty room. He's a terrible fit for the Glazers and our board.

Fans on here are so desperate to see Ole leave they have lost the plot.

Conte would be a terrible successor. Back to LVG and Jose times and where did that get us? Everyone hated it.
I don't rate Ole but I agree with this. We need to move forward as a club and personally for me that means looking at a more progressive, modern type manager in the mould of Naglessman or Rose but the most important for me would be if one fails we choose someone with the same characteristics so we don't have to keep breaking up the squad when a new manager comes in. Not like the shit show that's been happening since SAF retired and if Conte does come in that shit show would just continue.

He'd probably win something but I don't think the short term gain would be worth it. Consistency in the type of managers chosen is where it's at and for me Conte doesn't enter in that type of profile. If the squad were on its last legs then maybe Conte would be an option but not with the squad we have.
 

UnitedRepublic

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No Conte for me, I prefer Zidane he knows Varane and Ronaldo and is a good tactitian you don’t win 3 CLs If you’re not. He’d probably make Pogba stay aswell.

I also like the idea of Ten Haag nice football will be played with him.
 

Abraxas

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Sad as it is to say the archetype for what we need is a manager with many characteristics like Klopp. Not necessarily the next Klopp clone in every area of his management, but potentially somebody who is showing football and personality at a lesser side, overachieving and that is ready for the next step.

He needs to take a spluttering team and create a side that plays the football United fans expect. Even historically this has been front foot football, and in modern football that means better pressing and more fluid attacking. It doesn't mean pragmatic, men behind the ball styles or tactical jiggery to pinch results, the team have to become a force in attack - this is why we spend insane sums on forwards.

He needs to work diplomatically with a set of owners that are sometimes absent, and not football men. You don't see Klopp getting frustrated or lambasting the American owners, or even putting stuff out secretly about things he's unhappy with because he understands it is non-productive and creates a circus. He gets on with it, it doesn't influence his work. You can guarantee that behind the scenes he doesn't like everything that goes on but in public he defends the club and is a figurehead.

He has the personality to lead a massive club, in a positive light. When you think Klopp you think Liverpool, and vice versa. There is nothing transitory about it, they simply work together. He has a real passion for the club, he has embedded himself in the culture - these are really underrated qualities. Liverpool and Man Utd are very different clubs to a side like Chelsea and that's what people miss when they only think about a track record.

It's a lot to ask, to find this perfect fit that is good enough, has the gravitas, the personality, the style of play, the track record. But this is Manchester United we're talking about, you should be bloody good, there should only be a handful of guys even in the running. I don't think we can look at any of our appointments and seriously suggest we got the qualities we needed so we should have learnt something.
 

NZT-One

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Depends how you see it. The journey is far more important than the destination for me. Let me just enjoy watching my team most weekends is my first requirement and neither Moyes, LVG or Mourinho got anywhere near as close to that as Ole. Winning some cup doesn't alleviate a whole season of shite football.
Wouldn't that qualify as being egoistic? ^^
Just kidding, I get what you are saying, but to me, that argument always falls short because it seems to prefer the ok-ish status quo to an uncertain future. Playing style, entertainment wise. But that future might be way more entertaining than what we are given these days. I am no expert on Conte, again, I wouldn't go for him as well, but who knows, what kind of firework our offense could be executing when given a proper base to built on in terms of defense and midfield.

Appointment of a Conte would be proof we learnt nothing...
I know where you are coming from but I think, this is a way to definitive sort of statement about such a complex matter. As somebody pointed out, long term success is built on midterm success which in itself is built on short term success. Conte delivered success everywhere he went and I am not aware that one of his teams went into obscurity after he left. Mourinho had a proven history of creating mutiny and havoc, big issues in the dressing room. It is nothing like that with Conte.

clearly you haven't followed him closely. He doesn't compromise on personnel nor tactics. You give him what he wants or he blows his top publically. He also won stand for any bad press without the club defending him in public. He isn't also known for a love of youth. He is very un Fergie like in most things apart from being a serial winner
I don't deny any of this but don't you think the club can't find solutions for such issues? Why would he sign when the club would buy in with what he envisions with the team? Again I know where you are coming from but you are painting the picture in pure worst case scenarios, how likely is all that? How much things apart from Conte have to go wrong for that to materialize?

With responses like this it's hard to take you seriously:

He plays a strike 3-4-3-/3-5-2 hybrid.
He operates a specific type of 3 man box to box midfield

He prefers a striker pairing to 2
wingers/wise forwards and a 9

If he doesn't fancy a player. He will bin him. No matter the player. With him
you won't know who it is.

His playing style wouldn't necessarily be the issue. It's the formation.
I think, it is the exact opposite. Form follows function. But everyone to his own. The one thing we are clearly missing for Contes seemingly prefered style is an attacking RWB. We are missing an attacking RB now for Ole as well, wouldn't you agree? So whats the deal?!

In terms of the squad specifically:
We have an expensively assembled cb collection
He will insist on bin at least 3 (if we are lucky and he likes the current best 3) as not to his level. He won't even want them on the bench and it's unlikely any in our youth set up would be up to his standards.

He will want 4 attacking wbs who can also defend. That means he will bin Dalot and Awb. Possibly teles too. Maybe if we are lucky he might like a laird

In midfieid he'd want 3 box to men. We'd need to recruit him at least 3 top players to complement Bruno, pogba, mctominay, fred. In one window or else.

Upfront is were all the headaches would be. We have greenwood, Sancho, cr7, cavani, rashford, martial, elanga lingard,
To go into 3 roles 2 times. 2 of which he prefers strikers. Not forgetting he might not even like most of them. Not forgetting our fans love to moan whenever we have a boss who bins wingers ..
This feels an awful lot like a shitty fantasy story. Seriously, what do you think, they will talk about before signing a contract? It is so weird, I don't know, if it applies to you specifically, but with Ole there is group within the fanbase who is adamant that Ole needs worldclass players on each positions only to be valuated fairly - how is what you said now used to close the door for Conte? Every manager is dependent on some good players. Same as even the best players these days need a manager who sets a plan for the whole team. Conte made Moses a RWB ffs, it isn't like he wouldn't show up as long as his requirements aren't met.

I respect your stance but this a complete fantasy building where there are no indications that these outcomes will come true. If we want to do that, we can continue the talk of Ole never being able to win us any title - it is on the same level of speculation without any proof. Additionally, what I mentioned earlier, it would be more understandable if we currently would have some sort of system that is working and delivering very good outcomes, something that you don't want to disrupt just for having a try at something potentially better. But we are not in that situation. This current "individualistic approach" is something that can be done without anything, even if a new manager crashes and fails and we have to revert back to interim Carrick or whoever - setting up deep blocks, try to counter, that is our current playstyle, that is bread and butter for managers on most levels - maybe you can elaborate what exactly you are afraid to lose?

All this would be on the table. Yet we are club not known for moving players on quickly let alone for good money

People need to stop conflating Conte's amazing winner cv with him being a good fit for any job. A Real Madrid desperate for a top manager for example have avoided him strictly for such reasons.
But Real appointed Ancelotti who was at Everton before... I don't think, the decisions of other clubs should dictate your own decisions but at the end of day, I wouldn't want Conte as well. But only for the likelyhood of him falling out with the Glazers and even that fear is kind of far fetched because we don't even know, how stuff is organized right now and if Conte would have any touching points with them. I would opt for a more progressive option than Conte, but damning him seems strange. After all, he had success wherever he went.
 
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.....
I know where you are coming from but I think, this is a way to definitive sort of statement about such a complex matter. As somebody pointed out, long term success is built on midterm success which in itself is built on short term success. Conte delivered success everywhere he went and I am not aware that one of his teams went into obscurity after he left. Mourinho had a proven history of creating mutiny and havoc, big issues in the dressing room. It is nothing like that with Conte.
.
Long term success is built on a singular footballing direction, meaning the recruitment of players, coaches and manager is aimed at perfecting that singular direction. So even if you have short term coaching stints, directional progress is never compromised.

Going for short terms success based on cvs is a guaranteed receipt for failure especially when it doesn't work. Which can be more often than most care to admit. It also always leaves you with an un balanced, Frankenstein squad which can leave you behind your rivals ever rebuilding to suit the next man in charge.

United went from Moyes to Van Gaal to Mourinho based on cv. Not only did it leave us with a frakesntein squad, it left us with a confused footballing direction through the entire club. We were left not knowing whether we were an attacking, obsession based or pragmatic club. Who emphasized youth or recruitment of ready made players and galacticos.

It thus makes no sense to then repeat the same bullshit and hire A Conte based on his cv. On top of the fact he is just as prickly as Mourinho, A manager who is a 360 degree turn from what an Ole has been setting up the past 3 years. If your lucky and it works out you reap. If it doesn't. United will be behind all of its rivals having to pick up a new direction again. In short in a worse place than when you kick out an Ole

The ONLY types of managers who should be considered to replaced an Ole are those who believe in the same pricinples but perform them to a much higher degree. Not anyone with a total difference of modus operandi and principles



.......
 

Brexit_Brigade

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You are talking about a Conte who took over teams suited to his style already. Our current squad is not suited to his 3-4-3 /3-5-2 in the first place. In The second his very picky. He doesn't quite believe in working with what he has, just what he wants. Given how United struggles to sell players that would be an immediate flash point of friction. As he'd want to bin certain players to bring in those he prefers
Again, he did what he did at Chelsea by sticking Victor Moses, a player nobody thought the club had any use for, into the XI at a position he'd barely (if ever) played. And they stormed to the title.

I have no idea how that's an example of him bringing in players he prefers, or not working with what he has.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Wouldn't that qualify as being egoistic? ^^
Just kidding, I get what you are saying, but to me, that argument always falls short because it seems to prefer the ok-ish status quo to an uncertain future. Playing style, entertainment wise. But that future might be way more entertaining than what we are given these days. I am no expert on Conte, again, I wouldn't go for him as well, but who knows, what kind of firework our offense could be executing when given a proper base to built on in terms of defense and midfield.
Well I mean we have a career of evidence to suggest that Conte teams are not entertaining and never really will be. People can disagree (as they did with Mourinho) but I said the same about him, it isn’t a pleasing style for me and not really one befitting a great Manchester Utd team.

I think you clearly misunderstand me, at no point have I said this is as good and entertaining as it can get. In fact I find Ole a little too conservative in the main and I don’t think he’s played great football overall but still far far better than his predecessors post Fergie. Ultimately, however it ends for Ole, I will always look back on this spell with fondness in a period where he rebuilt the team, brought back some class on and off the pitch and played a huge role in re-establishing our cultural identity. I have made no secret over the years that my number 1 manager choice is Klopp and I have zero doubts if he were our manager he would bring not only better style but also better results. All that being said I don’t think the same of Conte. He might bring out some decent short term results and even a trophy or two (ala Jose) but it won’t be pretty and I know I’ll likely feel much more disconnected from the team and their success so what’s even the point. I’ve always maintained if we are gonna win, we might as well win it in style.
 
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This feels an awful lot like a shitty fantasy story. Seriously, what do you think, they will talk about before signing a contract? It is so weird...
That's rich coming from you. Everything I mentioned is what a United would have to do to get him in the first place. I am a big Conte fan for your information. You in comparison are relying on fifa style fantasy dreaming of what a Conte can win because of his cv without ANY serious regard to how.

I don't know, if ]it applies to you specifically, but with Ole there is group within the fanbase who is adamant that Ole needs worldclass players on each positions only to be valuated fairly - how is what you said now used to close the door for Conte?
This is why I insist fans like you are just not serious. You glibly imagine we are some rabid fans of an Ole just because we see no sense in changing the footballing direction of the club yet again just to pursue short term winning via a coaching cv.

It not merely a Conte 'being dependent on good players'. Its about him being a good fit to complete the job Ole has done rebuilding the squad and club for 3 seasons. Plus to have the fans on board with his preferred methodology. Our fans for example have never taken to winger less football.

We already tried this idiotic shit 3 times. from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho. Recruiting a manager based on the better cv. It did't get us ANY closer to winning the league nor sustained success. Just a cup or 2 papering over the cracks

Every manager is dependent on some good players. Same as even the best players these days need a manager who sets a plan for the whole team. Conte made Moses a RWB ffs, it isn't like he wouldn't show up as long as his requirements aren't met.
what gave you the fantastical idea Victor Moses "didn't meet his requirements"? :lol:
Conte is very strict about what he wants. Because he knows 100% what he wants cant work without it. Moses was used because Cotne was certain he was up to the task. Not because he was a case of working with what was there

But Real appointed Ancelotti who was at Everton before... I don't think, the decisions of other clubs should dictate your own decisions but at the end of day, I wouldn't want Conte as well. But only for the likelyhood of him falling out with the Glazers and even that fear is kind of far fetched because we don't even know, how stuff is organized right now and if Conte would have any touching points with them. I would opt for a more progressive option than Conte, but damning him seems strange. After all, he had success wherever he went.
First. Carlo Ancelotti was a Real Madrid coach before. They were not merely picking 'the everton coach"

Second why do you think the available Conte wasn't picked ahead of Ancelotti by them? Do you seriously think Conte wasn't good enough for them based on his cv and style?

If you can't understand why. You will NEVER get why Conte signing for United would be all sorts of wrong. Its just that simple. You will keep imagining that people don't rate him as a coach or are Ole's fans. Rather than simply, not seeing him as the right fit
 
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Again, he did what he did at Chelsea by sticking Victor Moses, a player nobody thought the club had any use for, into the XI at a position he'd barely (if ever) played.
Because Conte believed he could be perfect for the task he wanted, just like with Kwadwo Asamoah in his Jventus days. Its just that simple.

Anyone who imagines Conte will just use a player because he can't get another option when the doesn't believe the player up to the task doesn't really know Conte at all.

I have no idea how that's an example of him bringing in players he prefers, or not working with what he has.
which is where the problem lies
 

Brexit_Brigade

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The guy I initially responded to was saying Conte's tactics take time for teams to adapt.

I said Chelsea switched formations six games into the season while losing 3-0, and went on to win a dozen or so games in a row. Part of that change was tossing Moses, who hadn't started a game yet, straight into the squad to play an unfamiliar position. They then crushed the league.

That's adaptability, end of. And you can toss in as many snide remarks about people just not getting it as you like, while simultaneously acting like it's 100% guaranteed that the guy will come in and immediately decide he wants nothing to do with 3 of our first team players.

Side note: I've said multiple times in this thread that I'm not fully sold on Conte and there are multiple valid reasons for not wanting him. So I have zero interest in a wall-of-text back and forth: I've been directly replying to individual posts containing views that I don't think are an accurate reflection of the guy's tactical style (and flexibility) or the football he plays.
 
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The guy I initially responded to was saying Conte's tactics take time for teams to adapt.

I said Chelsea switched formations six games into the season while losing 3-0, and went on to win a dozen or so games in a row. Part of that change was tossing Moses, who hadn't started a game yet, straight into the squad to play an unfamiliar position. They then crushed the league.

That's adaptability, end of. And you can toss in as many snide remarks about people just not getting it as you like, while simultaneously acting like it's 100% guaranteed that the guy will come in and immediately decide he wants nothing to do with 3 of our first team players.
This simply, betrays a fundamental lack of understanding of Conte as a manager and why he did what he did.

First, Switching from a failing a back 4 system wasn't adaptability. It was to prove a point to his squad and the fans, to win them over to his ethos. It was the preferred methodology at chelsea, never his. His preferred football was always 3-4-3/3-5-2. He won his squad to his method and proved a point to them and the fans winning 13 on the trot after the change.

Second, to repeat the point ad naseum. Conte played Moses because he was certain Moses was up for the task he required of him. Period. That of a wing back who plays high yup the pitch, with the legs, lungs and work rate to get back and defend. Because he was already a winger in the mold of an Ashley Young. A very willing worker happy with tracking back. He didn't just throw him in or a gamble or merely mold him from what whenever was into something new. It wasn't adaptability either
 

NZT-One

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Long term success is built on a singular footballing direction, meaning the recruitment of players, coaches and manager is aimed at perfecting that singular direction. So even if you have short term coaching stints, directional progress is never compromised.

Going for short terms success based on cvs is a guaranteed receipt for failure especially when it doesn't work. Which can be more often than most care to admit. It also always leaves you with an un balanced, Frankenstein squad which can leave you behind your rivals ever rebuilding to suit the next man in charge.

United went from Moyes to Van Gaal to Mourinho based on cv. Not only did it leave us with a frakesntein squad, it left us with a confused footballing direction through the entire club. We were left not knowing whether we were an attacking, obsession based or pragmatic club. Who emphasized youth or recruitment of ready made players and galacticos.


It thus makes no sense to then repeat the same bullshit and hire A Conte based on his cv. On top of the fact he is just as prickly as Mourinho, A manager who is a 360 degree turn from what an Ole has been setting up the past 3 years. If your lucky and it works out you reap. If it doesn't. United will be behind all of its rivals having to pick up a new direction again. In short in a worse place than when you kick out an Ole

The ONLY types of managers who should be considered to replaced an Ole are those who believe in the same pricinples but perform them to a much higher degree. Not anyone with a total difference of modus operandi and principles



.......
A frankenstein squad? For example one with no modern RB, a functional CM without anybody really excelling in the role? With Strikers playing on the Wing-Positions? With a CAM who sees himself as a second striker and plays often like it? A striker who others have to compensate for his lack of work off the ball? With a cam bought from a possession team that is now re-developed as a "CM"? A squad where players like Mata and Grant are kept as... masqots?

Look, I get it, you don't want Conte. Me neither. But to me, it seems strange to not just say you don't like but you act as if the current state is such a great status quo and it would be a sin to disrupt it. And a direction of a club should sit deeper in a club than on the first layer that the manager is. This post feels like way too doom and gloom.
 
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bond19821982

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Another one who just doesn't get it :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yeah, talking to another "Ole in" who is absolutely Content with the average shit that's thrown out week and week out, just because the manager understands the United way(which has been pretty much non-existent since SAFs last years).
Another one who has no idea how good of a coach is Conte, just because he doesn't want to sack his favorite coach.
Another one who has absolutely no idea how horrible we are on the pitch and how worse it's going to get in coming weeks.

Basically another one who is happy for the club to be just reactive and not proactive.

Should I go on ?

Jeez , the level of reasoning I have to read just to support Ole , is baffling .
 

NZT-One

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That's rich coming from you. Everything I mentioned is what a United would have to do to get him in the first place. I am a big Conte fan for your information. You in comparison are relying on fifa style fantasy dreaming of what a Conte can win because of his cv without ANY serious regard to how.
Why does that feel condescending? For which reason? Especially if it seems to be a completely false statement, maybe you didn't really find the right words, you cant possible think, that United needs 4 Wingbacks for Conte to even considering coming to us? That sounds as implausible as it gets. He played with a back-4 at Juve for a while, for Chelsea also in some games iirc.


This is why I insist fans like you are just not serious. You glibly imagine we are some rabid fans of an Ole just because we see no sense in changing the footballing direction of the club yet again just to pursue short term winning via a coaching cv.

It not merely a Conte 'being dependent on good players'. Its about him being a good fit to complete the job Ole has done rebuilding the squad and club for 3 seasons. Plus to have the fans on board with his preferred methodology. Our fans for example have never taken to winger less football.

We already tried this idiotic shit 3 times. from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho. Recruiting a manager based on the better cv. It did't get us ANY closer to winning the league nor sustained success. Just a cup or 2 papering over the cracks
There is a part of me who feels the need to tell you to f** off. I guess 50k posts aren't an indicator for any sort of decent forum behaviour. Plus it is nice of you to list the managers who didn't really get us anywhere, just feels a bit inconsequential to stop the list at Ole. Because he got us nothing to this day as well. The difference is merely that you seem to feel cosy with him around and have bought in into "some underlying plan".
I don't want him gone because of a lack of alternatives right now, but hearing that sort of thoughts, sounds very glibly to me (can't even be bothered to look that word up). It is fine, if you want to wait for success to coincidentally hit us. It is fine - have faith. But don't act condescending when somebody hints that there is a chance that this might well be blind faith alltogether.

what gave you the fantastical idea Victor Moses "didn't meet his requirements"? :lol:
Conte is very strict about what he wants. Because he knows 100% what he wants cant work without it. Moses was used because Cotne was certain he was up to the task. Not because he was a case of working with what was there
And you don't think, a manager who was able to deploy Moses as a RWB wouldn't even try to deploy one of our players at RWB? I don't get where you are taking your security from. He made use of Kolarov and Young of all people at Inter didn't he?

First. Carlo Ancelotti was a Real Madrid coach before. They were not merely picking 'the everton coach"

Second why do you think the available Conte wasn't picked ahead of Ancelotti by them? Do you seriously think Conte wasn't good enough for them based on his cv and style?

If you can't understand why. You will NEVER get why Conte signing for United would be all sorts of wrong. Its just that simple. You will keep imagining that people don't rate him as a coach or are Ole's fans. Rather than simply, not seeing him as the right fit
I have no idea what pissed you off today but I know it isn't a great idea to just leave it out on the internet to strangers. Not because I'd like my internet to be clean but because you depict yourself in a pretty strange light.

I don't imagine anything. I just have no idea why Real didn't went for him. I don't care. Real went for Mourinho. For Lopetegui. For Benitez. Since when is Real Madrid a measurement for manager quality or long-term planning or thinking? What does it have to do with Conte as a coach that Real didn't go in for him?


Maybe lets just stop here. It isn't going anywhere anyway.
 

NZT-One

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Well I mean we have a career of evidence to suggest that Conte teams are not entertaining and never really will be. People can disagree (as they did with Mourinho) but I said the same about him, it isn’t a pleasing style for me and not really one befitting a great Manchester Utd team.

I think you clearly misunderstand me, at no point have I said this is as good and entertaining as it can get. In fact I find Ole a little too conservative in the main and I don’t think he’s played great football overall but still far far better than his predecessors post Fergie. Ultimately, however it ends for Ole, I will always look back on this spell with fondness in a period where he rebuilt the team, brought back some class on and off the pitch and played a huge role in re-establishing our cultural identity. I have made no secret over the years that my number 1 manager choice is Klopp and I have zero doubts if he were our manager he would bring not only better style but also better results. All that being said I don’t think the same of Conte. He might bring out some decent short term results and even a trophy or two (ala Jose) but it won’t be pretty and I know I’ll likely feel much more disconnected from the team and their success so what’s even the point. I’ve always maintained if we are gonna win, we might as well win it in style.
All fair points. I remember having only seen the odd game with him in charge, I never fully seen that his style is particular good or bad. But never would I evaluate his style as being good or bad. Only thing that comes to my mind is, when he gets chosen (something I wouldn't celebrate) that he is able to bring more structure into a team that, in my mind, clearly lacks it. And I think, this could be just as much a part of the whole "rebuilt" as it was Ole actions, that you very well described in your post. Success breeds success and, but that is really only my personal feeling, our squad is strong right now and players like Ronaldo, Varane and Pogba will maybe never play together in the same team. I wouldn't want to call it a waste. But it certainly could be a good chance not used.
 

Brexit_Brigade

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And you don't think, a manager who was able to deploy Moses as a RWB wouldn't even try to deploy one of our players at RWB? I don't get where you are taking your security from. He made use of Kolarov and Young of all people at Inter didn't he?


Maybe lets just stop here. It isn't going anywhere anyway.
Yeah, I've seen enough of this Red Indian Chief guy's "debates" with other people on here to know it's not worth getting into. He just repeats himself over and over while telling the other person they don't get it.

Conte, for all his faults, is one of the best tacticians around (and as dozens of people have pointed out, he has not always played the same formation throughout his career). All these condescending explanations about how he'll discard a lot of our players without attempting to fit any of them in, and even more condescending dismissals (all firmly with the benefit of hindsight - so Moses was simply a player Conte knew he could use, but we're so sure there are no similar examples in this current United squad, conveniently enough) when given a perfectly valid counterexample.
 

reelworld

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Yeah, I've seen enough of this Red Indian Chief guy's "debates" with other people on here to know it's not worth getting into. He just repeats himself over and over while telling the other person they don't get it.

Conte, for all his faults, is one of the best tacticians around (and as dozens of people have pointed out, he has not always played the same formation throughout his career). All these condescending explanations about how he'll discard a lot of our players without attempting to fit any of them in, and even more condescending dismissals (all firmly with the benefit of hindsight - so Moses was simply a player Conte knew he could use, but we're so sure there are no similar examples in this current United squad, conveniently enough) when given a perfectly valid counterexample.
Also apparently Conte, a manager at Chelsea, is happy to lose games using a tactics he didn't believe in just to prove a point that it wouldn't work to the fans.

That's certainly up there with one of the strangest things I've read on the caf
 

passing-wind

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Those of you crying 'bin ole for conte' learnt absolutely nothing when United when United went from Moyes, to Van Gaal to Mourinho based on just the cv.
Mourinho is the most successful United manager post SAF to date. On the basis of winning things one could say it was a just decision. Being the manager is not about a popularity contest, if Solskjaer doesn't start winning he will inevitably be replaced. The only person Ole can blame is himself for underachieving.
 

Red_toad

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Mourinho is the most successful United manager post SAF to date. On the basis of winning things one could say it was a just decision. Being the manager is not about a popularity contest, if Solskjaer doesn't start winning he will inevitably be replaced. The only person Ole can blame is himself for underachieving.
Maybe he can blame those who put him in said position? In my book he should only have ever been a caretaker until the next guy came along. I don't blame him for taking his dream job and I wish very badly it was going better for him. He 100% should have gotten us at least 1 trophy by now.
 

Daengophile

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There are lots of valid points made in the many posts here.

If we are going to change coach (again!) this season, what will be the best timing?

Towards the end of the season when things are clearer on our performance in the EPL and UCL?

Do we wait for Woodward's successor?

Do we wait for the right coach to be available?

Do we start sounding out top managers now?

What is the strategy?
 

kthanksbye

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I come in this tread once a week to see the horror stories people like to perpetuate about Conte, some of them so bizarre that I feel we deserve mediocrity.

I don't know how we will not "enjoy" the football Conte plays, it's not like he has 6 defensive minded players on the pitch, as we have right now. He does like to be in control of games, he adapts through the season and even during games, I for one would love to have a manager on the sidelines who know what he's doing.

As far as him binning 17 players and wanting 21more, that's again paranoia. The club can sit with him and come to an agreement in terms of what he wants in the next few windows, and this is the part where I think he'll ask our board to feck off, go somewhere else and have that team compete for titles, because much like our fans, even our board does not recognize competence even when it hits them in the face.