Would you take Conte at United?

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Really? I’m thinking his downfall at Chelsea was a shite window after winning the league. Morata, Zappacosta, Drinkwater

He didn't want any of those players - they were all foisted on him by our board.

But even if he implodes with the board, which is likely to be fair given how badly we are run, Conte still leaves his teams in a very decent shape. You finished 3rd next season with Sarri, Juventus continued their winning ways and Inter are competing for the title right now. I'd rather the club not overpay on players anymore as that is a losing strategy, but at least I'm sure that with Conte we won't buy a 80 million slabhead, that's for sure.

Yeah I must say that I don't understand the oft-flung critique around here that he "leaves teams in shambles". Quite the opposite really - Juventus benefitted from the groundwork he laid massively over the subsequent 5-6 years, Chelsea were in massive danger of a Mourinho-induced death spiral that he immediately arrested (and as you say he made things easier for Sarri), and Inter are having a decent season despite selling their two best players.

 

[Rash Decision]

I would, but seems like our Board don’t want him.

 

[antohan]

He doesn't. Every manager we could possibly get will find a way to fit Greenwood into the team, because they'll all immediately see he's a monster talent.

"Complete misfit", "write-off" ... feck me, people love hyperbole.

Did you read what I posted? It's all pretty damn sensible and down to earth. I'm not into in/out extremism or blind player fanboyism.

I just have a genuine concern on what this would mean for Greenwood precisely because he is a monster talent and 3-4-3 is just about the worst setup I could imagine for him to flourish. I don't even want to contemplate derailing his development faffing about with managerial/tactical trial and error.

No one is bigger than the club, but he is THAT good that I'd question the urgency to have a pop at getting "something" out of this season at his expense.

 

[pratyush_utd]

I would, but seems like our Board don’t want him.

Will have no option if Results don’t improve. And with leaks its quite clear, player support is dwindling.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Did you read what I posted? It's all pretty damn sensible and down to earth. I'm not into in/out extremism or blind player fanboyism.

I just have a genuine concern on what this would mean for Greenwood precisely because he is a monster talent and 3-4-3 is just about the worst setup I could imagine for him to flourish. I don't even want to contemplate derailing his development faffing about with managerial/tactical trial and error.

No one is bigger than the club, but he is THAT good that I'd question the urgency to have a pop at getting "something" out of this season at his expense.

No offence but why do you feel this way? He could play as a 9 in that system (especially if Ronaldo is playing LF), or he can play as a RF which is not dissimilar to his role currently. In Conte's 3-4-3 the front 3 all stay fairly central; width is provided by the wingbacks. If anything, using him in this 4-2-4 has him further out on the right and that seems to be of very limited benefit. Having Greenwood in and around the penalty area seems an ideal use of him and opportunity for him to develop for me.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Did you read what I posted? It's all pretty damn sensible and down to earth. I'm not into in/out extremism or blind player fanboyism.

I just have a genuine concern on what this would mean for Greenwood precisely because he is a monster talent and 3-4-3 is just about the worst setup I could imagine for him to flourish. I don't even want to contemplate derailing his development faffing about with managerial/tactical trial and error.

No one is bigger than the club, but he is THAT good that I'd question the urgency to have a pop at getting "something" out of this season at his expense.

Again, there are dozens of ways to play 3-4-3 and we have absolutely no basis to conclude a player like Greenwood simply wouldn't fit the formation. Or that Conte will insist on playing a variant of the formation that won't suit him. Or even that Conte will play the formation to begin with.

I don't think it's at all sensible or down to earth to imply bringing Conte in on a short-term basis is equivalent to writing Greenwood off. It's completely baseless.

 

[antohan]

No offence but why do you feel this way? He could play as a 9 in that system (especially if Ronaldo is playing LF), or he can play as a RF which is not dissimilar to his role currently. In Conte's 3-4-3 the front 3 all stay fairly central; width is provided by the wingbacks. If anything, using him in this 4-2-4 has him further out on the right and that seems to be of very limited benefit. Having Greenwood in and around the penalty area seems an ideal use of him and opportunity for him to develop for me.

He is first and foremost an incisive player, which clearly isn't a bad thing. Can't see him as a #9, that's not the type Conte prefers as #9. The inside forwards are usually more creative linkup players. Greenwood's attributes don't make him bad for that, and I sure don't see him as a stunted talent that won't grow into that, but others would be ahead and more ready to slot in.

That's why I say if the angle is "let's just try it for 18 months, Conte is a winner, nothing to lose" I'm not game for it. It's careless throwing up shit and seeing what sticks ala switching from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho.

Messing about with a prospect like Greenwood is something I wouldn't take lightly.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

He is first and foremost an incisive player, which clearly isn't a bad thing. Can't see him as a #9, that's not the type Conte prefers as #9. The inside forwards are usually more creative linkup players. Greenwood's attributes don't make him bad for that, and I sure don't see him as a stunted talent that won't grow into that, but others would be ahead and more ready to slot in.

That's why I say if the angle is "let's just try it for 18 months, Conte is a winner, nothing to lose" I'm not game for it. It's careless throwing up shit and seeing what sticks ala switching from Moyes to LVG to Mourinho.

Messing about with a prospect like Greenwood is something I wouldn't take lightly.

To be honest that's more a feature of Tuchel's 3-4-3 as opposed to Conte's - Conte at Chelsea would have us shifting to 3-5-2 often as Hazard would drop deep to create, with Costa and Pedro staying higher. Could easily see something similar with Greenwood here - Sancho or Bruno dropping deeper from the opposite wide position with Greenwood further up to be incisive. Tuchel by contrast prefers to use two 10s in the inside forward positions usually (or a winger like CHO complemented by an underlapping wingback).

In terms of strikers, Conte usually likes a target man who can hold the ball up + flick it on alongside a more mobile option. I agree that Greenwood couldn't be the former, but if he's up front alongside Ronaldo (or Cavani), he could very well be that floating striker.

I think overall there are potential fit concerns for the squad you have going into a Conte system that you're right to flag; personally though I just disagree that a 3-4-3 would inherently be disastrous for Greenwood. I reckon he'd find himself between the half-spaces more often than he is now - and if part of that involves him dropping a bit deeper at times to develop that part of his game, I don't think that's a bad thing in the long run.

 

[antohan]

Again, there are dozens of ways to play 3-4-3 and we have absolutely no basis to conclude a player like Greenwood simply wouldn't fit the formation. Or that Conte will insist on playing a variant of the formation that won't suit him. Or even that Conte will play the formation to begin with.

I don't think it's at all sensible or down to earth to imply bringing Conte in on a short-term basis is equivalent to writing Greenwood off. It's completely baseless.

In a 3-4-3, looking at what Conte has done before he is in trouble. In a 3-5-2 he would indeed have a better chance.

Given our wingbacks and central midfielders are actually pretty shite it's straight forward that the best fit for our squad is a 3-4-3 with more creative and/or hardworking AMs rather than forwards either side of Cavani/Cristiano/Rashford (probably in that order).

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Could it be that the board are just finalising the Conte deal?

They're waiting for the poll in this thread to flip to a "yes" majority.

 

[antohan]

To be honest that's more a feature of Tuchel's 3-4-3 as opposed to Conte's - Conte at Chelsea would have us shifting to 3-5-2 often as Hazard would drop deep to create, with Costa and Pedro staying higher. Could easily see something similar with Greenwood here - Sancho or Bruno dropping deeper from the opposite wide position with Greenwood further up to be incisive. Tuchel by contrast prefers to use two 10s in the inside forward positions usually (or a winger like CHO complemented by an underlapping wingback).

In terms of strikers, Conte usually likes a target man who can hold the ball up + flick it on alongside a more mobile option. I agree that Greenwood couldn't be the former, but if he's up front alongside Ronaldo (or Cavani), he could very well be that floating striker.

I think overall there are potential fit concerns for the squad you have going into a Conte system that you're right to flag; personally though I just disagree that a 3-4-3 would inherently be disastrous for Greenwood. I reckon he'd find himself between the half-spaces more often than he is now - and if part of that involves him dropping a bit deeper at times to develop that part of his game, I don't think that's a bad thing in the long run.

Good points, thanks. Emphasis on "in the long run" being my main point in all this. Feck experiments.

Do you honestly think we can pull off a 3-5-2 with Shaw in his current form, Dalot and McFred (or any random CM combo we can concoct?). Other than better coaching, most of our issues would still be very much there.

As an 18 months trial, I can't see that going very well unless there's a lot less forward play and more midfield graft and creativity (from the other two in 3-4-3). I reckon that's an arse as far as Mason is concerned.

 

[Rolaholic]

I'm still struggling to figure out where so many people are getting "Conte loses the dressing room and has tantrums" from.

It's not grounded in reality but some people seem hellbent on drawing parallels with a washed up Mourinho simply because he's a fiery manager who never overlooks the importance of solidity at the back (which coincidentally is probably our biggest problem on the pitch presently)

Bar that, they couldn't have less similarities between the two and I've yet to hear an ex player of his badmouth him in hindsight the way Mourinho seems to polarize his lot.

The main difference between the two appointments potentially is that we'd be getting a hungry Conte at the top of his game rather than a manager already on the downturn of their career.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Emphasis on "in the long run" being my point. Feck experiments.

Do you honestly think we can pull off a 3-5-2 with Shaw in his current form, Dalot and McFred (or any random CM combo we can concoct?). Other than better coaching, most of our issues would still be very much there.

As an 18 months trial, I can't see that going very well unless there's a lot less forward play and more midfield graft and creativity (from the other two in 3-4-3). I reckon that's an arse as far as Mason is concerned.

I think if you had Conte in and were playing:

DDG
Varane-Maguire-Shaw
Dalot-Fred-Pogba-Telles
Bruno-Greenwood-CR7

You'd be a far more difficult proposition than currently. Bruno drops deep as needed to support Fred building up, Dalot overlaps, CR7 plays as the static striker and Greenwood the mobile.

 

[Affirmation]

I was admittedly not keen on the prospect of hiring Antonio Conte, not that I didn't think he was a great manager, on the contrary I actually think he is currently one of the best in the world and his record speaks for itself. However, I'm now really intrigued at the prospect of us bringing him in to take on the manager role. As a football club, we cannot simply rely on traditions that post Sir Alex Ferguson, haven't brought any sustainable success.

I'm not saying that Conte is going bring guaranteed success either, but we should absolutely not rule out exploring this appointment simply because of tradition. Also, the 'big managers haven't worked' argument is flawed, if we were to follow such a logic then we should have stayed away from recruiting big name players after the Alexis Sanchez debacle. Anyway, if he were to be hired, I could see him setting up his starting eleven players similar to this including the nine substitutes:

GK: De Gea / Henderson
RWB: Dalot / Lingard
RCB: Wan-Bissaka
CB: Varane / Maguire
LCB: Lindelof
LWB: Shaw / Telles
RCM: Pogba / Van De Beek
LCM: Fred / McTominay
CAM: Fernandes / Sancho
RS: Ronaldo / Greenwood
LS: Rashford / Cavani

 

[Isotope]

Yeah, 30 wins. I think it was both to be honest. We had one of the most wasteful transfer windows in 2017. Spent about £230m on about 7 players, with only Rudiger being of any kind of use - Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Batchuayi, Zappacosta, Morata, Emerson. He was already pissed at the board going into the second season, and then he very publicly fell out with Costa.

The whole thing ended up with Conte taking Chelsea to court over the £9m severance package.

were those his "purchase" or a mix? why did he piss off with the board? why did he fall out with Costa?

That's the thing though. If i were the Club owner, I'd be massively reserve on hiring him with his history.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

were those his "purchase" or a mix? why did he piss off with the board? why did he fall out with Costa?

That's the thing though. If i were the Club owner, I'd be massively reserve on hiring him with his history.

Conte's tendency is to fixate on specific targets. If he doesn't get those, he gets mad. He specifically wanted Van Dijk, Koulibaly, Lukaku, and Alex Sandro that summer. None of the players we purchased were his choices.

My perspective is that the board did make genuine efforts to sign all of Conte's first choice targets, and if anything spent too long trying to negotiate as opposed to moving on to actually viable alternatives. Both parties are at fault - Conte for being set on individual players and the board for not finding feasible substitutes.

He fell out with Costa because the January before, Costa had his head turned by a massively ludicrous offer from a club in China (if I recall correctly they were willing to triple his salary or something nonsensical). He pushed to leave (despite us being first in the table), and Conte and the club refused to sanction the move. Costa sulked quite a bit and was never as effective for the second half of the season - Conte had resolved to sell him once the title was secured. Hard to blame Conte for wanting him out but doing it via text was short-sighted and problematic in the long run.

 

[Isotope]

Conte's tendency is to fixate on specific targets. If he doesn't get those, he gets mad. He specifically wanted Van Dijk, Koulibaly, Lukaku, and Alex Sandro that summer. None of the players we purchased were his choices.

My perspective is that the board did make genuine efforts to sign all of Conte's first choice targets, and if anything spent too long trying to negotiate as opposed to moving on to actually viable alternatives. Both parties are at fault - Conte for being set on individual players and the board for not finding feasible substitutes.

He fell out with Costa because the January before, Costa had his head turned by a massively ludicrous offer from a club in China (if I recall correctly they were willing to triple his salary or something nonsensical). He pushed to leave (despite us being first in the table), and Conte and the club refused to sanction the move. Costa sulked quite a bit and was never as effective for the second half of the season - Conte had resolved to sell him once the title was secured. Hard to blame Conte for wanting him out but doing it via text was short-sighted and problematic in the long run.

Thanks for the clear reply, mate.

 

[VanDeBank]

Our squad is better suited to 5-3-2. It would suit Maguire, Lindelof and it would reduce DDG's role in the build up. I wouldn't mind seeing Telles/Shaw on the left and Lingard/Sancho RWB (if we don't sign one).

An Ajax type system would require a different GK and CBs (with the exception of Varane).

Whichever way we go AWB needs moving on and a DM is desperately needed.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Thanks for the clear reply, mate.

Glad to share my perspective! Any other questions please don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Coops73]

They're waiting for the poll in this thread to flip to a "yes" majority.

Haha, wouldn’t surprise me if there is an element of truth to that.

 

[Carolina Red]

Again, there are dozens of ways to play 3-4-3 and we have absolutely no basis to conclude a player like Greenwood simply wouldn't fit the formation. Or that Conte will insist on playing a variant of the formation that won't suit him. Or even that Conte will play the formation to begin with.

I don't think it's at all sensible or down to earth to imply bringing Conte in on a short-term basis is equivalent to writing Greenwood off. It's completely baseless.

Exactly. Conte plays what he feels fits his squad. He’s always done that. Why people ignore that, I just don’t understand.

 

[Zapata]

conte is a winner and shows passion, something that ole isn't so yeah i'd take him. would prefer someone like ten hag, but maybe in a year or 2? if he decides to leave ajax.

 

[Carolina Red]

Glad to share my perspective! Any other questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Your contribution here has been great, in my opinion.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Your contribution here has been great, in my opinion.

Thank you for the kind words! Much appreciated and of course if I might be able to provide further insight into the dynamics of Conte's tenure at Chelsea for anyone I'd be happy to.

 

[AnderHerrera]

If we were to sign Conte and he is to play with a 3 at the back, I would imagine we could line up something like this:

DDG
Varane - Maguire - Lindelof
Lingard - Pogba - Matic - Bruno - Telles
Ronaldo - Cavani

Maybe this would be a way too attacking line-up, but I think its a interesting thought

 

[lost7]

If we were to play a 3 5 2 with Conte, I think Bruno would actually fit best as one of the forwards (basically take on the role Martinez was doing at Inter), which would effectively mean we'd have to bench all our wingers which is not realistic

 

[villain]

I've changed my mind.

Yes, yes I would. I think him joining us for 18 months works well for us & him, and we can focus on rebuilding after that with a progressive coach.

I'm hoping Conte would set up in a 4-3-3 that turns into a 3-4-3 in attack with Matic being the third CB, Bruno & 1 of Pogba/VdB/Fred to be #8s in midfield.
It's unorthodox but I think it gets the most out of our best players.
Then for games where Matic can't play, we can do a 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 but i'm not sure how that works without sacrificing a good chunk of our best players in their preferred positions.

 

[VP89]

I've changed my mind.

Yes, yes I would. I think him joining us for 18 months works well for us & him, and we can focus on rebuilding after that with a progressive coach.

I'm hoping Conte would set up in a 4-3-3 that turns into a 3-4-3 in attack with Matic being the third CB, Bruno & 1 of Pogba/VdB/Fred to be #8s in midfield.
It's unorthodox but I think it gets the most out of our best players.
Then for games where Matic can't play, we can do a 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 but i'm not sure how that works without sacrificing a good chunk of our best players in their preferred positions.

I would like the sound of that style of approach. Frustration is that we all know Ole going is inevitable and yet we are dragging it out.

 

[villain]

I would like the sound of that style of approach. Frustration is that we all know Ole going is inevitable and yet we are dragging it out.

Yep its unacceptable, he should've been gone on Monday. Now we're in a position where if we lose on Saturday do we sack him before a crucial away CL match? If we win on Saturday but lose in the CL do we sack him before derby against the Champions? It's far too chaotic.
The lack of strategic planning all throughout our club is pathetic.

 

[Ikon]

As each day passes, I'm more convinced that they are determined to stick with Solskjaer, If we don't lose to Spurs or Atalanta, and barring a 6-0 hammering and a fan walkout against City, I won't be shocked to see Solskjaer here till the end of the season.

 

[theklr]

Think Conte is one of the few managers that could come straight in and salvage the season at this point.

And he is the only one available that really wants the job as well.

I understand the club want a stable long-term manager, but at this point they just need to start getting us to be competative again.

Zidane is the only other I could see help us, Ten Hag and Potter is unproven at big complicated clubs just like Ole and Moyes were.

And I dont mean Ajax isnt a "big club" in a sporting sense, just all the other drama, pressure and media attention.

 

[VP89]

I'm really worried about the big name casualties from his system but can't deny his attention to detail, his passion and chronic winning mentality. I read a lot more about him after confessing to be rather ignorant on his methods and systems, and now feel more bought into him as being capable of bringing glory back to the club.

Even if it's a shorter term appointment, he has the chops to go toe to toe with the best.

 

[Noc-Z]

I don't see any other really good options. The situation Zidane was in at Madrid is very different to what he would face here and I'm not sure his credentials translate to the role here very well. Conte is the man I'm most confident in, that he will come in and get results fairly quickly. The likelihood of Conte being short term doesn't bother me. We have won nothing under Ole, we need results now. Ronaldo is short term, he doesn't have time to waste. We need someone in ASAP to get this team functioning.
The problem is the squad is nowhere near as good as most seem to think. But Conte should be able to get them functioning better than Ole can, at least.

 

[DutchCruijff]

Also, I don't believe he'll stick with 352/343 forever, that's something you do when you're lacking stability in the back and quality from fullbacks.

IF Pogba stays, we'd need to get another CM (box to box mould) and a CDM in.

Pogba-Rice-Tchouameni would be perfect and would allow us to gain control of the middle of the pitch and provide high quality defensive cover + a new RB and we can and should revert to 433.

 

[Gordon Godot]

The longer Ole says, the more of a joke this club becomes. The whole world knows he is not up to the job, but the longer the Glazer pawns keep him in place so our reputation as any kind of serious football club is lost. Players will stop wanting to come here, the existing players become unsettled and our lack of trophies will continue. Put him out of his misery asap.

 

[La Vecchia Signora]

To be honest Conte is the one and only replacement for Ole. The rest have jobs or don't want to manage Manchester United. Every paper is writing Conte is the next Manager. You can hope for whoever you want, but if Ole goes away or gets fired then Conte is the man for that Job. So no more players from us to Manchester United. We gave you enough and our legend player/Manager. The only thing left us will be a soft reaction to your results.

 

[Highfather_24]

If we get Conte in, Brozovic would be a good player to buy. He is in the last year of his contract, and is a really good DM. Solid defensively, and dictates play from the back. A bit on the older side at 28, but very similar to Carrick imo.

 

[giggs-beckham]

I don't really have a fundamental problem with 3-4-3, you CAN play very good and attractive football with it.

Don't have an issue with Conte either, always liked him and he is a character.

Where I disagree with most expextations around here is

1. Pogba and Cristiano are up shit creek as guaranteed starters (I don't care, very much the opposite, it's an upside of having a demanding manager that takes no prisoners)

2. Our midfield pair will remain fundamentally flawed (upside is, we would focus on sorting that out in January, which is long overdue)

3. We need a fantastic RWB, which isn't Dalot or a converted Lingard (in fairness, we could do with such a player today).

4. Bruno may become a bit of a misfit (not terrible)

5. My BIG issue: Greenwood becomes a complete misfit. I haven't been as excited about anyone since Rooney/Ron 15 years ago. That to me is a massive gamble. Sancho I think may adapt better, but not Mason.

Edi will slot in like a glove until Summer, but come Summer we absolutely 100% need Haaland. None of the other forwards we have suit the Costa/Lukaku role (or, basically, Drogba in Mourinho speak).

If we are to write off Greenwood we'd better be more committed to this than an 18 months trial of sorts.

Pogba Ronaldo Greenwood and Bruno are our best players

 

[Chris M]

I'd take Conte, at least he shows passion for the job, look at the top managers

Pep Passionate on the touchline
Klopp Passionate on the touchline
Tuchel Passionate on the touchline
Mourinho best moments , when he had a rant at Klopp, displaying a bit of passion
SAF Nothing needs to be said


Moyes Rabbit in headlights comes to mind with his time at United
LVG Dour with the exception of his diving display that got the crowd and team going
Mourinho with the odd exception mentioned above lost his passion tried to play it cool, made it look like he did not care.
Solskjaer Rabbit in headlights MK2, the grin when he answers questions after a dismal display, which I hope can only be nerves, just too nice a guy

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I've seen a few people use Lingard as RWB in possible lineups under Conte and I'm wondering why that can't be Bruno instead. Something like this

Rashford --Ronaldo --Sancho

Telles------Matic---- Fred------- Bruno

Shaw---Maguire---Varane

DDG
​