Would you take Rangnick back (As a DOF and NOT a manager)?

[Sky1981]

I'd prefer Solskjaer+McKenna again as DOF's / recruitment specialists. Maybe their management and coaching style overall wasn't as good as Ten Hag or Mourinho for instance, but their signings were a level above anything else post-Fergie. Even their punt youth signings have been relative successes (Dan James sold for a profit and that sort of thing).

There is absolutely zero chance that this will happen now, of course (you should never go back - similarly with Rangnick, he was a disaster class) and it's probably nonsense anyway but that's my feelings.

I'm not sure you're serious

Harry M : Abject Failure for 80M
Jadon Sancho : Total Car Wreck 80M
Bruno Fernandes : Tactically inept and have been found out lately
AWB : Nothing special for 50M
Varane : No brainer, he's Raphael Varane proven Quality
DVB : Where do I start, Ole himself don't know where to play him
Amad Dialo : Jury's still out, could be good could be bad
Daniel James : Wasted 15M for nothing
C. Ronaldo :
Alex Telles : Not making any contribution
Ighalo : ?
Pellistri : Jury's still out

Apart from Bruno, he has no player that you can say 100% gee that's a marvellous buy.

A level above? come on

 

[Gordon Godot]

I'm not sure you're serious

Harry M : Abject Failure for 80M
Jadon Sancho : Total Car Wreck 80M
Bruno Fernandes : Tactically inept and have been found out lately
AWB : Nothing special for 50M
Varane : No brainer, he's Raphael Varane proven Quality
DVB : Where do I start, Ole himself don't know where to play him
Amad Dialo : Jury's still out, could be good could be bad
Daniel James : Wasted 15M for nothing
C. Ronaldo :
Alex Telles : Not making any contribution
Ighalo : ?
Pellistri : Jury's still out

Apart from Bruno, he has no player that you can say 100% gee that's a marvellous buy.

A level above? come on

Exactly, Ole with his 'English core' was a joke. Awful signings. Tracked Sancho for ages to play on right and as well as awful attitude he wants to play on left. Not that ETH is doing much better. Seriously, do some of the posters on here understand football?

 

[roonster09]

I thought he was the new U-18 coach?

Rangnick could interview him for 30 minutes and find out how and what his ideas are. If you know what you're doing, it's not hard to find out fraud and the real deal.

My point is that he'll be sacking a lot of backroom staff

ffs

 

[golden_blunder]

I thought he was the new U-18 coach?

Rangnick could interview him for 30 minutes and find out how and what his ideas are. If you know what you're doing, it's not hard to find out fraud and the real deal.

My point is that he'll be sacking a lot of backroom staff

Yep ragnick is the king of knowing good coaches. He brought the best of the best with him

 

[Skills]

Yes of course. But he won't work with ETH after he stuck the knife in. So I'd bring him in when we bring in our next manager. In fact I'd ask him to help recruit for that role.

Tbf if you really wanted him you could incentivize him with a bit of revenge. He gets to slap ETH around for a few months before sacking him in a humiliating way as his boss. Might be tempting enough for him.

 

[golden_blunder]

I'm not sure you're serious

Harry M : Abject Failure for 80M
Jadon Sancho : Total Car Wreck 80M
Bruno Fernandes : Tactically inept and have been found out lately
AWB : Nothing special for 50M
Varane : No brainer, he's Raphael Varane proven Quality
DVB : Where do I start, Ole himself don't know where to play him
Amad Dialo : Jury's still out, could be good could be bad
Daniel James : Wasted 15M for nothing
C. Ronaldo :
Alex Telles : Not making any contribution
Ighalo : ?
Pellistri : Jury's still out

Apart from Bruno, he has no player that you can say 100% gee that's a marvellous buy.

A level above? come on

Maguire great in his first season but consistency hasn’t applied to all his time here. Fail
Sancho - weak mentally. Bought for right but better on left. Fail
Bruno - really? His goals and assists alone worth every penny. Hit. whether we can build a new side with him is a different question
AWB - most improved under ETH. He’s a good fullback. Hit
DvB - just can’t adjust to PL and now injury prone. Miss. Oh and I don’t think ole picked this one.
Dialo - too soon to tell. Huge potential
James - we got our money back so what’s wasted?
Ronaldo - forced on ole by the club and was the catalyst for it all falling. Fail
Telles - overhyped. Fail
Ighalo - short term loan. Not the worst.
pellestri - too soon

 

[tomaldinho1]

You’d have to likely get rid of ETH and the majority of our players. His style of football is very much where I think modern football should be - extremely physically fit, agile, fast and technical young players who will play very aggressive pressing football - but I can’t honestly think of a single player who fits that system in the current team bar Onana, Hannibal, Shaw maybe Reguillon and then I think he’d like Bruno and Antony albeit they are a bit slow for their respective positions. Maybe Garnacho as well as he seems to have added a bit more but again he’s not out and out rapid which he looks for in wide players.

 

[Skills]

You’d have to likely get rid of ETH and the majority of our players. His style of football is very much where I think modern football should be - extremely physically fit, agile, fast and technical young players who will play very aggressive pressing football - but I can’t honestly think of a single player who fits that system in the current team bar Onana, Hannibal, Shaw maybe Reguillon and then I think he’d like Bruno and Antony albeit they are a bit slow for their respective positions. Maybe Garnacho as well as he seems to have added a bit more but again he’s not out and out rapid which he looks for in wide players.

 

[pocco]

Tbf if you really wanted him you could incentivize him with a bit of revenge. He gets to slap ETH around for a few months before sacking him in a humiliating way as his boss. Might be tempting enough for him.

Day 1 Schedule: Meet Erik to review transfers

He'd enjoy that one.

 

[GazTheLegend]

...

Let me.preface this by saying it's not a hill I'm going to die on but add a bit of background.
We aren't the only football club buying players.
We aren't the only team spending hundreds of millions.
We aren't the only side who signs duds.
So if your club finishes 2nd, 3rd and second again, that means that some of those players were good enough to be better than at least another 17 teams in the league. That's logical, right? If all those players you've just mentioned were really as bad as Redcafe seems to think they are, we'd be finishing dead last every season on the fumes of the moaning alone.

Now as to whether that means they're successful because they didn't win titles I don't know. But it's my personal opinion that the players we signed under Solskjaer are better than the players we signed under Jose, van Gaal and Ten Hag, generally speaking. Yes we've had some absolute disasters on the recruitment side but here we are again under Ten Hag saying the same things as always.

I'm open to the idea that I'm wrong, like I said I'm obviously not HAPPY with any of the names you've mentioned but there'd a longer term context to think about too.

 

[Pav1878]

Definitely consider him, along with other candidates and see what their vision is for the club moving forwards.
he was my choice to be DoF working with a good visionary manager like Ten Hag, so was very disappointing when he wasn’t kept on.

I think at the very least he can see what is wrong at the club and that is more than anyone already employed there can do!

plus he has a good eye for talent. So definitely would have him back.
However I remember some rumblings about ETH not wanting him or any DoF for that matter so im Not sure we will see a DoF while Ten Hag is still in charge?

 

[Robbie Boy]

No. If we want to go that route, I'm sure there's younger, better DOF's available.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Don’t follow

 

[Plant0x84]

Question is would you give him the proverbial sword to chop every dissenters and do you have the stomach for the purge and whatever follows?

Purge the likes of Jones, Fletcher, Murtough etc. Sell the likes of Rashford, Bruno, Casemiro, and field a hungry youngster who's probably making all kinds of error and lead us to bottom table wilderness for 5 years IF and a big IF he gets it right than maybe... just maybe after 5 years we can start out ground zero of rebuilding the team with a modern manager.

This is a truly terrible post, in a frankly ridiculous thread.
Why would you want the whole club dismantled? Where are these ‘hungry youngsters’ that are ready to replace our best players? It’s widely accepted that our academy isn’t great recently. How would being more than rubbish help us rebuild? You want to be like City so bad we have to drop to League 2 to emulate their wilderness period? Do you even support United? There is very little care for the club in this post - it’s all self interested nonsense.

 

[Laurencio]

No. Restructure management to fit with the size of the club we are, and where we want to be.

1. Head of Football Operations
2. DOF Men - DOF Women
3. Manager and his Coaching Staff - Medical - Recruitment - Academy - Analysis
​

Head of Football operations is largely an administrative role that involves working together with other parts of the club, marketing, finance, legal, etc to ensure that the DOFs have clear guidelines and constraints to work under. It let's the DOF concentrate on how to achieve sporting success without getting bogged down in unnecessary beauracracy and power struggles. Currently the CEO does that job, but he is responsible for everything at the club, so it leaves the DOF dealing with all of this more or less on his own, in addition to traditional DOf jobs and ends up doing too much. It is a detriment to success.

When it comes to recruitment it needs to be streamlined. You need a transfer committee where the DOF has final say, and you have to get rid of the veto - because it makes no sense in a good cooperative setup. It only causes division and unnecessary power-struggles. Psychologically when you have a veto you will want to use it. It helps no one if the Manager can just refuse to sign every player you suggest except for his own personal favorite. It completely invalidates the excistence of a recruitment department. It is very important that the Manager's opinion carries weight in the discussion, obviously, but a good DoF shouldn't have a problem with that.

​

That transfer committee should consist of the DOF, heads of departments + Manager. The head of football operations and the CEO should not be involved in this for obvious reasons.

The DOF has final say on all transfers, both for reasons of continuity, long term planning and budgetary concerns. As long as the DOF is good at his job it won't be a pissing contest between the Manager and the DOF. Ultimately the DOF is in a much better position to consider the long term health of the squad, future budgets, key developments in the academy and potential changes in staff that could impact recruitment decisions.

Ragnick did well as a DOF at a mid-sized club, but we are far larger and with many more moving pieces. I believe the advent of womens football and the developments we see in the mediaworld as well as the need to work on recruitment throughout the year, necessitates another level of management at the club if we want to get ahead of the others.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

No.
It's never going to happen anyway. The ship has sailed!

I don't understand why anyone would want Rangnick back or De Gea back. We need to stop looking back as a club and start moving forward!

 

[Skills]

No. Restructure management to fit with the size of the club we are, and where we want to be.

1. Head of Football Operations
2. DOF Men - DOF Women
3. Manager and his Coaching Staff - Medical - Recruitment - Academy - Analysis
​

Head of Football operations is largely an administrative role that involves working together with other parts of the club, marketing, finance, legal, etc to ensure that the DOFs have clear guidelines and constraints to work under. It let's the DOF concentrate on how to achieve sporting success without getting bogged down in unnecessary beauracracy and power struggles.

When it comes to recruitment it needs to be streamlined. You need a transfer committee where the DOF has final say, and you have to get rid of the veto - because it makes no sense in a good cooperative setup. It only causes division and unnecessary power-struggles. Psychologically when you have a veto you will want to use it. It helps no one if the Manager can just refuse to sign every player you suggest except for his own personal favorite. It completely invalidates the excistence of a recruitment department. It is very important that the Manager's opinion carries weight in the discussion, obviously, but a good DoF shouldn't have a problem with that.

​

That transfer committee should consist of the DOF, heads of departments + Manager. The head of football operations and the CEO should not be involved in this for obvious reasons.

The DOF has final say on all transfers, both for reasons of continuity, long term planning and budgetary concerns. As long as the DOF is good at his job it won't be a pissing contest between the Manager and the DOF. Ultimately the DOF is in a much better position to consider the long term health of the squad, future budgets, key developments in the academy and potential changes in staff that could impact recruitment decisions.

Ragnick did well as a DOF at a mid-sized club, but we are far larger and with many more moving pieces. I believe the advent of womens football and the developments we see in the mediaworld necessitates another level of management at the club if we want to get ahead of the others.

I'd personally get rid of the manager in the transfer committee as well. Strip the role down into one of a head coach. In terms of recruitment his remit should be as far as making suggestions on "what areas" need strengthening rather than "how we'll strengthen them".

It should be perfectly acceptable for the DOF to say feck it, we have a generational RB coming through the youth system that'll be ready in a year or 2. So we'll stopgap our way though for now. That's the sort of thinking we need to do as a club and empower people to make those sort of calls when necessary.

 

[Ayoba]

Nah, much prefer having murtough at the helm, this way we can get every eredivisie player Eric wants.

 

[Oranges038]

Biggest snake oil salesman in football.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

To be honest, I would have before he came here and still would now. Possibly more so as he's had first-hand experience with the dressing room.

 

[steve zizou]

Biggest snake oil salesman in football.

Murtough?

 

[astracrazy]

I'd prefer Solskjaer+McKenna again as DOF's / recruitment specialists.

Is this a joke? Because you can't be serious. He wasn't qualified to be our manager, what on earth makes you think he would be qualified to be a DOF let alone ours?

Maguire, Sancho, James, Telles and DVB were all signed under his watch. Let alone all the deadwood that got contract extensions under him.

Specialist couldn't be further from the truth.

McKenna has no business as a DOF, he is just starting out on what looks to be a promising managerial career.

Maguire great in his first season but consistency hasn’t applied to all his time here. Fail
Sancho - weak mentally. Bought for right but better on left. Fail
Bruno - really? His goals and assists alone worth every penny. Hit. whether we can build a new side with him is a different question
AWB - most improved under ETH. He’s a good fullback. Hit
DvB - just can’t adjust to PL and now injury prone. Miss. Oh and I don’t think ole picked this one.
Dialo - too soon to tell. Huge potential
James - we got our money back so what’s wasted?
Ronaldo - forced on ole by the club and was the catalyst for it all falling. Fail
Telles - overhyped. Fail
Ighalo - short term loan. Not the worst.
pellestri - too soon

AWB a hit? He has improved under EtH sure, but he still isn't good enough for Utd - right back is still a weak position for us. He cost us £50M and even after he has improved still isn't good enough. I wouldn't call that a hit.
James - What's wasted? How bout wages? Sign on fees? Agent fees? Bonuses? Just because transfer in and transfer out was the same doesn't mean nothing was wasted. The whole thing was a waste. It was a poor signing and a fail.

 

[el3mel]

Ralf was an absolute fraud. One of the worst coaches I have ever seen. He talks a lot but with nothing to show for on the pitch. He's only good at tricking the fans into thinking he has a plan going on.

 

[steve zizou]

Definitely consider him, along with other candidates and see what their vision is for the club moving forwards.
he was my choice to be DoF working with a good visionary manager like Ten Hag, so was very disappointing when he wasn’t kept on.

I think at the very least he can see what is wrong at the club and that is more than anyone already employed there can do!

plus he has a good eye for talent. So definitely would have him back.
However I remember some rumblings about ETH not wanting him or any DoF for that matter so im Not sure we will see a DoF while Ten Hag is still in charge?

And we now know why looking at how ETH and Murtough have been operating in the transfer market.

Say what you like but there's no way Ralf is sanctioning 90m on Antony while West Ham manage to get Kudus for less than 40m.

 

[Lyng]

We hear about them as a club, I couldn't tell you who the DOF is and they're always good at business regardless of who the person is.

That's kinda what I meant. We hear about their good transfers but I don't ever hear names.

There has been a lot of talk about that lately after the fired Salihamidzic and Kahn.

 

[Oranges038]

Murtough?

Ralfy.

 

[tomaldinho1]

AWB a hit? He has improved under EtH sure, but he still isn't good enough for Utd - right back is still a weak position for us. He cost us £50M and even after he has improved still isn't good enough. I wouldn't call that a hit.
James - What's wasted? How bout wages? Sign on fees? Agent fees? Bonuses? Just because transfer in and transfer out was the same doesn't mean nothing was wasted. The whole thing was a waste. It was a poor signing and a fail.

£50m for a young player who has been first choice RB for going on 5 seasons assuming he replaces Dalot when he comes back is fine.

He retains sell on value, he was a tactical fit for Ole ball, he had improved under ETH and whilst limited he remains an excellent defender aside from aerially (which is a bit harsh to criticise a full back for that much).

You have to assess transfers without bias and on the disaster list of our post SAF transfers he’s probably one of the better ones. Key is his age, same with all the younger guys we signed or promoted even if they flop we generally get a half decent fee for them (Depay, Henderson, Elanga, James, Johnstone, Lukaku, Schneiderlin) vs the old guys who drain bigger wages and leave for peanuts.

 

[SirAF]

As DoF with real power? Yes.

 

[steve zizou]

Ralf was an absolute fraud. One of the worst coaches I have ever seen. He talks a lot but with nothing to show for on the pitch. He's only good at tricking the fans into thinking he has a plan going on.

Guess you didn't read the thread title? Forget his coaching credentials. Seeing as the club had no intention of hiring a top class DoF from the outside. Our choices were keep Ralf on for his 2 years consultancy or hand the reigns solely to John Murtough, who has built up a wealth of experience in football administration, scouting, talent acquisition and management at the top level of European football. I think we made the right decision in the end. Right?

And anyways your latter statement is also beginning to sound a lot like our current manager in charge.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

There has been a lot of talk about that lately after the fired Salihamidzic and Kahn.

Yes but it is more the club than one famous name.

 

[hasanejaz88]

110%. We really need a massive overhaul of ideas in the club and would trust him to do what's necessary.

 

[Pav1878]

And we now know why looking at how ETH and Murtough have been operating in the transfer market.

Say what you like but there's no way Ralf is sanctioning 90m on Anthony while West Ham manage to get Kudus for less than 40m.

Exactly

 

[el3mel]

Guess you didn't read the thread title? Forget his coaching credentials. Seeing as the club had no intention of hiring a top class DoF from the outside. Our choices were keep Ralf on for his 2 years consultancy or hand the reigns solely to John Murtough, who has built up a wealth of experience in football administration, scouting, talent acquisition and management at the top level of European football. I think we made the right decision in the end. Right?

And anyways your latter statement is also beginning to sound a lot like our current manager in charge.

No I read it and there's nothing that indicates he's gonna be a better DOF. It's just wishful thinking.

 

[sugar_kane]

He is so damn good that his last DOF job was in Russia I guess it's just not United but the whole footballing world who are missing out on his Genius .

Good point, and it is a bit strange that he isn't more in demand.

That said, he's levels and levels above Murtough and still has contacts in the game along with his vast experience. So on that basis we could do far worse than bring him back.

I was supportive of us not pursuing the relationship at the time as he had scorched his relationship with the squad, which could have undermined Ten Hag and the broader footballing hierarchy, but a lot of those guys he alienated have left now.

 

[Sky1981]

£50m for a young player who has been first choice RB for going on 5 seasons assuming he replaces Dalot when he comes back is fine.

He retains sell on value, he was a tactical fit for Ole ball, he had improved under ETH and whilst limited he remains an excellent defender aside from aerially (which is a bit harsh to criticise a full back for that much).

You have to assess transfers without bias and on the disaster list of our post SAF transfers he’s probably one of the better ones. Key is his age, same with all the younger guys we signed or promoted even if they flop we generally get a half decent fee for them (Depay, Henderson, Elanga, James, Johnstone, Lukaku, Schneiderlin) vs the old guys who drain bigger wages and leave for peanuts.

He's only first choice because he's so bad nobody wants him.

This is a truly terrible post, in a frankly ridiculous thread.
Why would you want the whole club dismantled? Where are these ‘hungry youngsters’ that are ready to replace our best players? It’s widely accepted that our academy isn’t great recently. How would being more than rubbish help us rebuild? You want to be like City so bad we have to drop to League 2 to emulate their wilderness period? Do you even support United? There is very little care for the club in this post - it’s all self interested nonsense.

Where are these superstars? Where's our best players?

 

[tomaldinho1]

He's only first choice because he's so bad nobody wants him.

That's overly negative. He's had some bad games and has not been great offensively but generally I'd say he's been good here and most have agreed he's actually looked a lot better under ETH. Is he amongst the best RB's in the world? No but he's solid, 25 years old is one of the few players who looks to have the ability to kick on a bit. Worth noting for the drubbings last season he was out for both City and Pool away.

 

[Sky1981]

That's overly negative. He's had some bad games and has not been great offensively but generally I'd say he's been good here and most have agreed he's actually looked a lot better under ETH. Is he amongst the best RB's in the world? No but he's solid, 25 years old is one of the few players who looks to have the ability to kick on a bit. Worth noting for the drubbings last season he was out for both City and Pool away.

But he's not free. For 50M you'd expect something else.. at least PL ready. Not a player with such glaring weaknesses that needs 3 years to address.

And there's so much to modern full back than just tackling and defending. Why spending 50M and fixing nothing. Can we honestly say we spend 50M and the Right flank is much better than whoever before him? Even now Dalot is first choice?

 

[Rightnr]

Well, he wanted Alvarez and Caicedo before they were got by our rivals and proved to be good players.

Just on that he's been proven more capable than anything Murtough has done

 

[Nickelodeon]

In a heartbeat.

Getting rid of Rangnick, one of the most succesful DoFs in Europe before he could do the job he was supposed to is up there with the stupidest decisions we've taken. Yes, he wasn't successful as a manager but he's primarily a DoF. Not even being given a shot at making signings was quite ridiculous.

 

[Roboc7]

No I don’t think he was the long term answer the club needed at this stage in his career. It’s been clear ever since he was appointed that Murtough isn’t really a DOF, there has always been a huge gap in the structure for someone of substance to be a figurehead and actually drive significant change.

Initially I assumed we’d solve that by at least bringing in someone to be in charge of recruitment,, whilst Murtough would be more of an administrator, but it’s clear the club don’t want to do that and are content with the same approach that has repeatedly failed.