Would you want to see harsher punishment for stopping counter attacks?

[alexthelion]

Sin bins would be awful.

Why?

 

[Number32]

Tactical foul is the worst tactical related thing in football. I'd rather watching a hard foul game with intensity and red cards instead of possesion football with tactical fouls.

Yellow is not enough, should move the freekick 12-15 yards to the penalty box, even there will be a Fk inside the box.

 

[Blackwidow]

If it would be punished harder a lot of the very offensive teams would have more players behind the ball and play more carefully.

 

[RedFish]

This. Orange card, 15 minute sin bin.

Edit: Or, and this may be a really stupid suggestion, automatic free kick from just outside the D.

Its not rugby union. You're essentially changing the fundamentals of football. Will never happen (I hope!)

 

[World Game]

In basketball each player is allowed 5 "personal fouls" per game - after 5 fouls they "foul out" and that is the end of their involvement in the game. That player can, however, be replaced by another to bring the on-court team back up to 5.
The VAR could easily tabulate the offences and notify the on-field ref when the limit is reached. Football could decide whether or not a replacement would be allowed.

The problem is that in football there some fouls that are clearly "worth more" than others and 5 is way too excessive. Every player would have the potential to stop 5 counterattacks each. With 20 outfield players on the pitch, that's 100 attacks stopped in a match.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Why?

Would slow the game down further, we don't need more possible punishments we need refs to be consistent from the first to the last minute. Yellows are there to be used properly, first profession foul, booked, second, your off its that simple.

 

[Gasolin]

It’s a part of football I absolutely hate. When a counter attack is stopped by a cynical foul where there is no attempt to play the ball. Refs always give yellow cards for it and it’s a major tactic for the likes of Pep, Klopp and Poch.

Chiellini’s foul on Saka was a prime example of a player making no attempt to play the ball yet he’s potentially stopped a goal scoring opportunity. I’ve seen quite a few people online saying it’s a red card, but I’m sure this has come from people who don’t regularly watch football. We all know it’s a yellow card challenge, but is that really right? Would you want to see harsher punishment for fouls in that scenario?

I don’t think it warrants a red card but some form of sin bin for stopping counter attacks would be interesting. This would make defenders think twice. Do they let the attacker go at the risk of the team being down to 10 men for 15 minutes?

I mean I think a yellow is fine. The issue is that often, referees don't give anything except maybe a foul, when they do give a foul. But that's a bigger topic. I don't think you'd want a red right away. Mistakes and bad judgments happen in football. I would find it harsh to send out a player right away, but it's just my opinion.

 

[Tomuś]

It’s a part of football I absolutely hate. When a counter attack is stopped by a cynical foul where there is no attempt to play the ball. Refs always give yellow cards for it and it’s a major tactic for the likes of Pep, Klopp and Poch.

Chiellini’s foul on Saka was a prime example of a player making no attempt to play the ball yet he’s potentially stopped a goal scoring opportunity. I’ve seen quite a few people online saying it’s a red card, but I’m sure this has come from people who don’t regularly watch football. We all know it’s a yellow card challenge, but is that really right? Would you want to see harsher punishment for fouls in that scenario?

I don’t think it warrants a red card but some form of sin bin for stopping counter attacks would be interesting. This would make defenders think twice. Do they let the attacker go at the risk of the team being down to 10 men for 15 minutes?

The problem is not even a yellow happens pretty often. The harsher punishments would basically kill the teams you mentioned. Unless they altered their tactics significantly.

 

[Balljy]

Would slow the game down further, we don't need more possible punishments we need refs to be consistent from the first to the last minute. Yellows are there to be used properly, first profession foul, booked, second, your off its that simple.

Why would a sin bin punishment slow down the game more than a yellow card?

 

[weetee]

I'd rather see Southgate not being so defensive with his approach. Being more attacking would also mean that Chiellini (for example) would have been eventually forced to risk a yellow way before that. But if you bring him only once and that late into the game in such a tight spot that he has to help himself with a clear tactical foul I'd rather say you're doing it wrong. Imo the idea should be to make it more attractive to play possession based / attacking football instead of sitting deep and counter attack as a basis as that many teams do. If a tactical foul would lead to way harsher punishment even more teams would play way more risk averse or basically a run n gun style called kick and rush and I'd hate that.

The problem wasn't the foul nor the punishment in that case imho.

 

[Balljy]

I'd rather see Southgate not being so defensive with his approach. Being more attacking would also mean that Chiellini (for example) would have been eventually forced to risk a yellow way before that. But if you bring him only once and that late into the game in such a tight spot that he has to help himself with a clear tactical foul I'd rather say you're doing it wrong. Imo the idea should be to make it more attractive to play possession based / attacking football instead of sitting deep and counter attack as a basis as that many teams do. If a tactical foul would lead to way harsher punishment even more teams would play way more risk averse or basically a run n gun style called kick and rush and I'd hate that.

The problem wasn't the foul nor the punishment in that case imho.

That gives a huge advantage to a particular style of play though and means the likes of Man City can play the way they do with the knowledge that they can stop the few counter-attacks which would lead to goal scoring opportunities by giving away a yellow. They could even swap the defender if they're already on a yellow to avoid reds.

There's nothing innately wrong with a counter-attacking style and it can be very exciting if done well. A large part of United's history is based on quick breaking attacks that tear teams apart.

 

[weetee]

That gives a huge advantage to a particular style of play though and means the likes of Man City can play the way they do with the knowledge that they can stop the few counter-attacks which would lead to goal scoring opportunities by giving away a yellow. They could even swap the last defender if they're already on a yellow to avoid reds.

There's nothing innately wrong with a counter-attacking style and it can be very exciting if done well. A large part of United's history is based on quick breaking attacks that tear teams apart.

Like a lot of posters already said: the refs are just way too lenient with punishing it. If the rule would be enforced somewhat correctly I doubt we would even talk about it. But if your team can create only 2-4 moments like that during the whole match it's either just not good enough or plays it too safe.

Of course there isn't something innately wrong with a counter attacking style but you make it sound as if possession based football (not necessarily tiki-taka) would be the dominating style around - I'd say it's completely the opposite atm.

 

[Balljy]

Like a lot of posters already said: the refs are just way too lenient with punishing it. If the rule would be enforced somewhat correctly I doubt we would even talk about it. But if your team can create only 2-4 moments like that during the whole match it's either just not good enough or plays it too safe.

Of course there isn't something innately wrong with a counter attacking style but you make it sound as if possession based football (not necessarily tiki-taka) would be the dominating style around - I'd say it's completely the opposite atm.

I haven't said anything about the way most teams play which is why I mentioned Man City as an exception. Most teams play off the break, or at least an amalgamation of possession based football and football on the break depending on who they're playing.

It does give an advantage to teams with a high press though and smaller teams are well within their rights to sit back and aim for 3 or 4 breaks in a game which I don't have a problem with as a tactic. Not everyone can afford players with world class control and passing abilities.

I don't think there's a problem with yellows, but I also can't think of a reason why a sin bin is seen as a negative. It won't slow the game down as it is already stopped for a yellow, it brings in an immediate punishment and in reality it would stop those players doing what they're doing now which is surely what we want?

 

[weetee]

It does give an advantage to teams with a high press though and smaller teams are well within their rights to sit back and aim for 3 or 4 breaks in a game which I don't have a problem with as a tactic. Not everyone can afford players with world class control and passing abilities.

You don't need worldclass players to play possession based football though. And it's not only small clubs either. Just look at how England played and what kind of players they had at their disposal - totally risk averse. I don't see the point in making that approach even more attractive by making extremely harsh punishments to teams that play a high line. Especially since the current rule is not even applied as it should be.

I don't think there's a problem with yellows, but I also can't think of a reason why a sin bin is seen as a negative. It won't slow the game down as it is already stopped for a yellow, it brings in an immediate punishment and in reality it would stop those players doing what they're doing now which is surely what we want?

Of course it would slow down the flow of the game considerably. First there would be lengthy discussions just as much as there are now once a red card is shown. Then the player has to leave the pitch, much larger area than in Hockey for example, taking his time. Additionally you'd also most likely have the team that's down to 10 play it extremely slow and risk averse depending on the result.

But you know what? "super"clubs like City would still profit by that rule since they most likely play for the first goal to score, which is still extremely likely becaues of their overall superior quality against almost 10/10 teams, and then, instead of going for the second/third/fourth goal they'd sit deep, wait for the other team to actaully attack and play on the break..which the small team must try to handle without committing any tactical fouls since...sin bin.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Why would a sin bin punishment slow down the game more than a yellow card?

In my opinion it would, player exiting pitch etc. Tell me how long does the player get binned for? How does the player renter the pitch after his binning? Currently players cant enter the field of play again until the ball is out of play? Why are you so keen for a sin bin, why does it appeal to you?

 

[André Dominguez]

Yellow card is fair for these kind of fouls. A player taking a yellow card will have his game conditioned and will do much less 50/50s.

 

[duffer]

Currently players cant enter the field of play again until the ball is out of play?

That's not true. Subs can't come on until the ball is out of play but if you've received treatment and are off the pitch, the ref waives you back on during play.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

That's not true. Subs can't come on until the ball is out of play but if you've received treatment and are off the pitch, the ref waives you back on during play.

But its still with the refs permission I mean, he just cant come on till given the nod, apologies for the wording. Sorry I just hate the idea of a sinbin.

 

[Balljy]

In my opinion it would, player exiting pitch etc. Tell me how long does the player get binned for? How does the player renter the pitch after his binning? Currently players cant enter the field of play again until the ball is out of play? Why are you so keen for a sin bin, why does it appeal to you?

Exiting the pitch I can see, but entering would be based on current rules for injury (i.e the ref waves them on whilst play is ongoing).

Sin bins are personal opinion, but I think they're worth exploring. There's a load of fouls and ref interactions which players get away with because there's just a yellow and a red card. The former doesn't really change much but are not given early in matches due to a red being such a heavy punishment. I would see sin bins as an intermediate punishment which could stop players from cynical fouls and arguing with the ref.

Basically I think 10 minutes on the side-line would stop a load of fouls in the first place as the punishment is relatively severe but not permanent and would give the ref more leeway. Players after being sin binned a few times would have to stop doing it as no team wants to play with 10 men for 10 minutes - yellow cards don't have that affect.

What makes you so against them? They're just an extension of what's already there, but with a punishment which would make players think more about fouls. They're not going to change the rules of football and do work in other team sports.

 

[weetee]

Exiting the pitch I can see, but entering would be based on current rules for injury (i.e the ref waves them on whilst play is ongoing).

Sin bins are personal opinion, but I think they're worth exploring. There's a load of fouls and ref interactions which players get away with because there's just a yellow and a red card. The former doesn't really change much but is not given early in matches due to a red being such a heavy punishment. I would see sin bins as an intermediate punishment which could stop players from cynical fouls and arguing with the ref.

Basically I think 10 minutes on the side-line would stop a load of fouls in the first place as the punishment is relatively severe but not permanent and would give the ref more leeway. Players after being sin binned a few times would have to stop doing it as no team wants to play with 10 men for 10 minutes - yellow cards don't have that affect.

I'm totally opposed to sin bins - maybe irrational but still Imo a huge part of the beauty of the game is its simplicity - anyway: what about the VAR? Even now I think he should check on yellow cards too since they can get a player send off the field which is basically THE ultimate punishment but right now could be caused by two blatant misinterpretations by the ref without the VAR having any chance to intervene. That said: sin bin punishments surely should be checked by the VAR then, right? This too would disrupt the flow of the game considerably. I'm not against VAR btw. just pointing that out.
Sin bins to me sound like a technocratic solution of a problem that can very well dealt with with the current ruling system.

 

[Balljy]

I'm totally opposed to sin bins - maybe irrational but still Imo a huge part of the beauty of the game is its simplicity - anyway: what about the VAR? Even now I think he should check on yellow cards too since they can get a player send off the field which is basically THE ultimate punishment but right now could be caused by two blatant misinterpretations by the ref without the VAR having any chance to intervene. That said: sin bin punishments surely should be checked by the VAR then, right? This too would disrupt the flow of the game considerably. I'm not against VAR btw. just pointing that out.
Sin bins to me sound like a technocratic solution of a problem that can very well dealt with with the current ruling system.

That's true, I guess VAR would have to check. You could possibly do that whilst play is ongoing and the bin starts from the end of the check but is a potential downside.

I think I see it as a lot less of a big deal. The idea of them is not to bin a load of players, but act as a way of stopping certain types of actions. If it was brought in just to stop players arguing with refs for example, no-one would argue with refs at all any more - exactly like in the other sports where they're used.

 

[Alex99]

Exiting the pitch I can see, but entering would be based on current rules for injury (i.e the ref waves them on whilst play is ongoing).

Sin bins are personal opinion, but I think they're worth exploring. There's a load of fouls and ref interactions which players get away with because there's just a yellow and a red card. The former doesn't really change much but are not given early in matches due to a red being such a heavy punishment. I would see sin bins as an intermediate punishment which could stop players from cynical fouls and arguing with the ref.

Basically I think 10 minutes on the side-line would stop a load of fouls in the first place as the punishment is relatively severe but not permanent and would give the ref more leeway. Players after being sin binned a few times would have to stop doing it as no team wants to play with 10 men for 10 minutes - yellow cards don't have that affect.

What makes you so against them? They're just an extension of what's already there, but with a punishment which would make players think more about fouls. They're not going to change the rules of football and do work in other team sports.

Refs just need to be better at giving out yellow cards.

Players will soon stop taking the piss if they know they're getting a yellow regardless of whether it's the first minute or the thirtieth, and they'll stay sensible then if refs start actually giving second yellows for yellow card offences, rather than letting them go because "it's not a red".

Sin bins would be horrible, in my opinion. You're going to need to completely redo disciplinary procedures, for one. It's 2 yellow cards in a match and you get a red. How do sin bins affect this if we're acknowledging they're worse than yellows? Currently, a PL player receives a ban if he picks up 5 yellow cards. What do you do about sin bins?

I also think matches will become crap. As soon as a player is sin binned, you're just going to see teams sit with their entire team behind the ball and make no attempt to go forward until he's back on. The flow of games is going to go completely.

 

[Pink Moon]

Sin bins would be terrible and I'd probably stop watching football if they ever introduced that.

If you think a foul is so bad that a player should leave the pitch then it should be permanent and not for 10-15 minutes. What's the point of that? And for those who argue because 'it isn't quite a red card offence' then book them. Simple solution.