Exactly this. It just needs to be enforced, strictly. I think it was the Denmark game where Delaney fouled Sterling like 15 seconds into the game and you could see the ref insinuating it was the first foul or early and just gave that calm down hand gesture when Kane came up to complain. It should have been a yellow and if you give these out consistently players I think will use them more as a last resort at important times of the game v a tactic employed by the manager.I wish they did. That’s the problem, they don’t.
Yellow card is fine but it has to be consistent. None of this “Oh it’s in the first 15 minutes, don’t do it again“ or “oh it’s Fernandinho” or “oh you’re already on a yellow, I don’t think I can give a red for that”
If they added a 5 minute sin bin to the yellow card it would change the game in terms of fouls.This is where the sin bin would have been perfect.
A yellow card + 5 minute sin bin makes it heavy enough to make the defender think twice.
A yellow alone they can take on the chin, a red card is probably too harsh and would rarely ever be given due to gaining a permanent advantage.
What are chops? He swiped his legs. It's dangerous because of the force, he got a red.You think a shirt pull is worse than a kick to the chops??
There’s far to much training given to referees around “managing the match as a spectacle” in my opinion. The idea that nobody wants to watch a big match 10 vs 11, even if it creates a worse match with one team getting away with murder.Exactly this. It just needs to be enforced, strictly. I think it was the Denmark game where Delaney fouled Sterling like 15 seconds into the game and you could see the ref insinuating it was the first foul or early and just gave that calm down hand gesture when Kane came up to complain. It should have been a yellow and if you give these out consistently players I think will use them more as a last resort at important times of the game v a tactic employed by the manager.
It was just in Italy's half by the touchline. There were two Italians in the centre who were closer to goal.I called that Chiellini tackle on Sako a red card when I seen it. He would have been through on goal so definitely should have been. The rule is supposed to be a red card for stopping goal scoring opportunity but was Chiellini the last player? Tough luck sometimes on those decisions. Does it need tougher rules? I don't think so, it just needs to be enforced consistently.
Ok well, I think a kick that landed near the private parts is far more dangerous than any shirt pull. But that's my opinion.What are chops? He swiped his legs. It's dangerous because of the force, he got a red.
And yes, yanking someone's neck is worse than kicking a players legs.
I never knew about this. When was this used?I agree, but I am not sure of a solution... the "bin" was tried once if I remember correctly, a blue card wasn't it?
I think a consistent yellow card would be an improvement... and maybe adding an automatic yellow card for a specific number of fouls, you get a yellow, no ref criteria or anything. That should reduce the number of tactical fouls in general.
The law is "obvious" goal scoring opportunity, not "potential".Everything is a "potential goal scoring opportunity", can't card every foul now can we?
Then you will get managers using it to get additional subs in near the end of the game .A different option to a sin bin would be an enforced sub of the offending player. Keeps it XI vs XI but weakens the offending side.
Yes. It's absolutely mad that refs (Michael Oliver might be the worst for it) think it's good to let obvious infringements go in the name of "spectacle" in an age where we're introducing things like goal-line technology and VAR in the name of fairness.There’s far to much training given to referees around “managing the match as a spectacle” in my opinion. The idea that nobody wants to watch a big match 10 vs 11, even if it creates a worse match with one team getting away with murder.
In that case just make it part of their allocation of three (assuming we ever go back to that). So it essentially removes one of their sub options. It would have been a big psychological blow to Italy to have Chiellini replaced.Then you will get managers using it to get additional subs in near the end of the game .
Ofcourse. There is also difference between tactical fouls. They can be dangerous (red direct) or they can be made like Chiellini did. Just a slight shirt grabing. Elegant in my opinion. No injury or even near.So long as the second one leads to a red rather than turning a blind eye
I wouldn't add it to a yellow alone, hence why a new 'orange' card would be needed.If they added a 5 minute sin bin to the yellow card it would change the game in terms of fouls.
Because the foul hurts the counter attacking team more than the tiki taka or other. You want to discourage teams intentionally fouling the opposition, whatever the reason. There should never be a situation where fouling should be in your interest or them situations should be minimised as much as possible.I have an issue with counter attacks being treated as this special means of attack, to which it's impediments (tactical fouling) must be treated more harshly than impediments against other forms of attack (set pieces, tiki-taka).
Yellow cards are fine.
I agree with this. The first of these offences leads to a sin bin for 5 minutes. The second offence leads to the player playing with his laces tied together for 5 minutes. A third one leads to the player having to stand still whilst the opponent blasts the ball into him at full speed.Sin bin rules, not saying I’m necessarily an advocate, but there is a certain amount of cynicism in these challenges, that it never feels like a yellow is enough.
Obvious is subjective, Sako would have easily outpaced the two Italian defenders. But I know exactly what you mean, that's why I thought red but see why it was yellow. Could have been a goal scoring chance though given Sakos pace.It was just in Italy's half by the touchline. There were two Italians in the centre who were closer to goal.
I don't think it's really an "obvious goalscoring opportunity".
I think that would be far too complicated for referrees given they already struggle with just 2 cards.I wouldn't add it to a yellow alone, hence why a new 'orange' card would be needed.
A yellow can still be kept for certain things like tactical fouls, regular fouling, time wasting, bad language etc.
I had to dig into my memory (meaning, I googled)... it wasn't worldwide, it was a trial in Uruguay in 1996, sorry to bring it up, I was 8 years old at the time and had the idea it wasn't a local thing.I never knew about this. When was this used?
I've been thinking lately that a sin bin would be a very useful addition to the game. For what offenses and for how long is debatable, but there does need to be a penalty that's harsher than a waving a yellow card but not as brutish as a red card for non-violent offenses such what you're getting at here.It’s a part of football I absolutely hate. When a counter attack is stopped by a cynical foul where there is no attempt to play the ball. Refs always give yellow cards for it and it’s a major tactic for the likes of Pep, Klopp and Poch.
Chiellini’s foul on Saka was a prime example of a player making no attempt to play the ball yet he’s potentially stopped a goal scoring opportunity. I’ve seen quite a few people online saying it’s a red card, but I’m sure this has come from people who don’t regularly watch football. We all know it’s a yellow card challenge, but is that really right? Would you want to see harsher punishment for fouls in that scenario?
I don’t think it warrants a red card but some form of sin bin for stopping counter attacks would be interesting. This would make defenders think twice. Do they let the attacker go at the risk of the team being down to 10 men for 15 minutes?
Are these sorts of fouls not already "tactical" fouls?I wouldn't add it to a yellow alone, hence why a new 'orange' card would be needed.
A yellow can still be kept for certain things like tactical fouls, regular fouling, time wasting, bad language etc.
City struggle to get one yellow a game, though multiple players indulge in this. So I would be surprised if we see multiple yellows and all. Not going to happen.Ref's need to be consistent. Man City make an utter mockery of it. Maybe they should keep it yellow card offence but if you get 3 yellows for persistent shithousery then you get a two game ban
They are usually valid fouls committed in an "attempt" to get the ball. Unless very egregious, you won't see yellows given for them.It's the inconsistencies around the 'small' tactical fouls that bothers me more. If teams were penalized more often for those fouls committed before a counter attack can really begin, then they wouldn't be able to make the obvious fouls without facing a red card.
Too many teams have incorporated deliberate fouls into their pressing strategy. It's high time referees recognize this.
rugby style sin bin would work with var.There isn't really much to do about it though, either you give red, which is as you said, too harsh, or you give yellow, which may be too mild.
There is no middle ground between not sending of someone, and sending of someone.
not at all, most people already debate the difference between yellow and red, having the option of an inbetween would allow yellows to a lot more consistent, and reds for the genuinely bad tackles / cheating.I think that would be far too complicated for referrees given they already struggle with just 2 cards.
I’ve put this in a few threads before as well. I don’t know what the worst offenders average in terms of fouls per game, but my original suggestions was 3 fouls always equalling a yellow.I agree, but I am not sure of a solution... the "bin" was tried once if I remember correctly, a blue card wasn't it?
I think a consistent yellow card would be an improvement... and maybe adding an automatic yellow card for a specific number of fouls, you get a yellow, no ref criteria or anything. That should reduce the number of tactical fouls in general.
You probably wont but the intention shouldn't be particularly relevant. If a simple free kick doesn't compensate for the opportunity lost then there should be further punishment or advantage given till it does.They are usually valid fouls committed in an "attempt" to get the ball. Unless very egregious, you won't see yellows given for them.
Sorry I meant if a player gets 3 yellow cards on separate occasions for persistent tactical fouls then they get an immediate two game ban. At the moment you need to get ten yellows for a two game ban and the ref has to record what the incident was.City struggle to get one yellow a game, though multiple players indulge in this. So I would be surprised if we see multiple yellows and all. Not going to happen.
I may have heard something about rugby having it once but I don't really pay attention to those sports.
I can't believe this is news to you. It's a really old name.