Would you want to see harsher punishment for stopping counter attacks?

[Josep Dowling]

It’s a part of football I absolutely hate. When a counter attack is stopped by a cynical foul where there is no attempt to play the ball. Refs always give yellow cards for it and it’s a major tactic for the likes of Pep, Klopp and Poch.

Chiellini’s foul on Saka was a prime example of a player making no attempt to play the ball yet he’s potentially stopped a goal scoring opportunity. I’ve seen quite a few people online saying it’s a red card, but I’m sure this has come from people who don’t regularly watch football. We all know it’s a yellow card challenge, but is that really right? Would you want to see harsher punishment for fouls in that scenario?

I don’t think it warrants a red card but some form of sin bin for stopping counter attacks would be interesting. This would make defenders think twice. Do they let the attacker go at the risk of the team being down to 10 men for 15 minutes?

 

[Pexbo]

It’s a part of football I absolutely hate. When a counter attack is stopped by a cynical foul where there is no attempt to play the ball. Refs always give yellow cards for it and it’s a major tactic for the likes of Pep, Klopp and Poch.

Chiellini’s foul on Saka was a prime example of a player making no attempt to play the ball yet he’s potentially stopped a goal scoring opportunity. I’ve seen quite a few people online saying it’s a red card, but I’m sure this has come from people who don’t regularly watch football. We all know it’s a yellow card challenge, but is that really right? Would you want to see harsher punishment for fouls in that scenario?

I don’t think it warrants a red card but some form of sin bin for stopping counter attacks would be interesting. This would make defenders think twice. Do they let the attacker go at the risk of the team being down to 10 men for 15 minutes?

I wish they did. That’s the problem, they don’t.

Yellow card is fine but it has to be consistent. None of this “Oh it’s in the first 15 minutes, don’t do it again“ or “oh it’s Fernandinho” or “oh you’re already on a yellow, I don’t think I can give a red for that”

 

[horsechoker]

Give the refs a whip!

 

[Morty_]

There isn't really much to do about it though, either you give red, which is as you said, too harsh, or you give yellow, which may be too mild.

There is no middle ground between not sending of someone, and sending of someone.

 

[AshRK]

The issue is they don't even consistently give yellow cards. I have seen rodri and fernandinho stopping counters from early minutes and yet they go unpunished. They must be yellow carded for cynical tackles even if it is minute 1.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

It’s one of them “orange card” offences. If it’s not clear goal scoring opportunity you can’t really justify a red, but a yellow feels way too lenient.

Fernandinho got away with these without bookings for years.

 

[OleBoiii]

Give the refs a whip!

*wa-pish*
Jagielka: Aaaah! Ref, what did you do that for?!
Referee: Because you belong in a museum, old man!

 

[arthurka]

I wish they did. That’s the problem, they don’t.

Yellow card is fine but it has to be consistent. None of this “Oh it’s in the first 15 minutes, don’t do it again“ or “oh it’s Fernandinho” or “oh you’re already on a yellow, I don’t think I can give a red for that”

This. No problem with the law but refs not working within that law is the problem.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I wish they did. That’s the problem, they don’t.

Yellow card is fine but it has to be consistent. None of this “Oh it’s in the first 15 minutes, don’t do it again“ or “oh it’s Fernandinho” or “oh you’re already on a yellow, I don’t think I can give a red for that”

Yeah, good point.

I think any foul where there is no attempt to play the ball should be an automatic yellow card. No matter where/when it happens (other than upgrade to red if DOGSO)

 

[Glorio]

I wish they did. That’s the problem, they don’t.

Yellow card is fine but it has to be consistent. None of this “Oh it’s in the first 15 minutes, don’t do it again“ or “oh it’s Fernandinho” or “oh you’re already on a yellow, I don’t think I can give a red for that”

Spot on - if they consistently gave yellow cards, it would reduce the tactic massively.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

It’s a part of football I absolutely hate. When a counter attack is stopped by a cynical foul where there is no attempt to play the ball. Refs always give yellow cards for it and it’s a major tactic for the likes of Pep, Klopp and Poch.

Chiellini’s foul on Saka was a prime example of a player making no attempt to play the ball yet he’s potentially stopped a goal scoring opportunity. I’ve seen quite a few people online saying it’s a red card, but I’m sure this has come from people who don’t regularly watch football. We all know it’s a yellow card challenge, but is that really right? Would you want to see harsher punishment for fouls in that scenario?

I don’t think it warrants a red card but some form of sin bin for stopping counter attacks would be interesting. This would make defenders think twice. Do they let the attacker go at the risk of the team being down to 10 men for 15 minutes?

This. Orange card, 15 minute sin bin.

Edit: Or, and this may be a really stupid suggestion, automatic free kick from just outside the D.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

No sins bins, EVER in football. Simply be smarter than the defender, if he gets one yellow card target him to get another.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

No sins bins, EVER in football. Simply be smarter than the defender, if he gets one yellow card target him to get another.

Why not?

 

[horsechoker]

No sins bins, EVER in football. Simply be smarter than the defender, if he gets one yellow card target him to get another.

Doesn't work when refs are reluctant to give out cards in case it ruins the flow of the game.

 

[Withnail]

I wish they did. That’s the problem, they don’t.

Yellow card is fine but it has to be consistent. None of this “Oh it’s in the first 15 minutes, don’t do it again“ or “oh it’s Fernandinho” or “oh you’re already on a yellow, I don’t think I can give a red for that”

Especially so if it's done when the attacker is still in their own half. They never give a yellow even though with the right pass they could be in on goal as the defence is not set.

If they consistently gave yellows for it it would stop.

The challenge on Saka was ridiculous. After I stopped laughing I did find myself wondering if it should be a red.

 

[Daonico]

I agree, but I am not sure of a solution... the "bin" was tried once if I remember correctly, a blue card wasn't it?
I think a consistent yellow card would be an improvement... and maybe adding an automatic yellow card for a specific number of fouls, you get a yellow, no ref criteria or anything. That should reduce the number of tactical fouls in general.

 

[Ralaks]

I'd like some sort of sin-bin. It's pretty clear that the benefits of stopping someone like that, especially towards the end of a game, massively outweighs the negative.

 

[Dancfc]

Be careful what you wish for.

Without the safety net of a tacical foul it will only serve to make teams more cautious which in turn will serve up more boring games than there already is.

 

[Balljy]

No sins bins, EVER in football. Simply be smarter than the defender, if he gets one yellow card target him to get another.

A sin bin has been needed in football for years. It works perfectly in rugby and allows the ref to punish teams who are obviously cycling fouls where it doesn't justify a red but where they are affecting the result of the game.

 

[Champ]

I agree, but I am not sure of a solution... the "bin" was tried once if I remember correctly, a blue card wasn't it?
I think a consistent yellow card would be an improvement... and maybe adding an automatic yellow card for a specific number of fouls, you get a yellow, no ref criteria or anything. That should reduce the number of tactical fouls in general.

The league I play in have trialled sin bins, albeit for dissent only. It worked, the levels of dissent towards ref's reduced massively.

The rules state a red card can be for serious foul play: A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play. and Violent conduct: Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball

Realistically a tug of the shirt cannot be deemed as endangering an opponent or as violent conduct. But it should warrant an automatic yellow card no matter where abouts it happens on the pitch.

The major issue is refs having the backbone to punish such tactics, it's long been accepted that you will only get a yellow card for these types of offences if they happen when the player is in an advanced position, it will take a long time for that mindset to change and be accepted.

For me, these cynical fouls are the same as diving - blatant cheating, and so should warrant the same punishment no matter where abouts on the pitch they happen.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Yes, a trapdoor opens when someone tries to stop a counter-attack. The offending player falls into the trapdoor to a snake pit or pool of cow shit. Such a punishment will ensure they will never repeat the offense again.

 

[11101]

It's a professional foul. There needs to be something in between a red and yellow card for the not quite obvious goal scoring opportunities. A 15 minute sin bin would be perfect.

Football needs to realise the single biggest barrier to the lucrative US market is the cheating. Stamp it out and the game will be much more palatable to them, and better for everybody else too.

 

[fergieisold]

I think if there's no attempt to play the ball it should be a red card.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Do like the idea of a yellow card + 5/10 minute "sin bin" for intentional offences where there has been zero attempt to play the ball (so your shirtpulls/trips from behind etc.)

Guess the big issue with this would be teams then wasting time trying to run their 10 minutes down.

 

[Solius]

There isn't really much to do about it though, either you give red, which is as you said, too harsh, or you give yellow, which may be too mild.

There is no middle ground between not sending of someone, and sending of someone.

There literally is and it's called a sin bin.

I'd be up for implementing it in football. The pull back on Saka is never enough to be a red card but a yellow doesn't feel like enough. If he was sinbinned he'd have missed the first half of ET and players might think twice about it going forward.

Fernandinho would probably end up playing about 7 mins per 90.

 

[Champ]

Be careful what you wish for.

Without the safety net of a tacical foul it will only serve to make teams more cautious which in turn will serve up more boring games than there already is.

Disagree entirely with this.

Games are not free flowing and attacking because they can use tactical fouls...if anything tactical fouls stop alot of goals from happening.

Teams like City and Liverpool who use these fouls consistently won't suddenly not play attacking football, they will instead probably concede more goals as teams will be able to counter them without being stopped cynically!

 

[Adam-Utd]

I've mentioned this before but football has evolved passed having just 2 cards.

We need an orange card, which is a yellow card that carries a 5 minute sin bin.

Some fouls for shirt pulling are given as yellows, the same as a leg crunching challenge that isn't deemed "quite" a red (see Jorginho foul on Grealish)

Football used to be fairly clear, rarely any fouls were given as yellow cards unless they were dangerous - reds were saved for the most severe tackles. Now referees hand out yellows like candy, but red cards are still obviously not wanted as they ruin the game.

A sin bin style system like Rugby would allow a much broader spectrum of refereeing, and not completely ruin the game.

 

[JTRI]

The issue is they don't even consistently give yellow cards. I have seen rodri and fernandinho stopping counters from early minutes and yet they go unpunished. They must be yellow carded for cynical tackles even if it is minute 1.

To me this is the only real solution and the correct one, teams couldn’t make this cynical fouling tactic part of their game if a player would be sent off after 2. The problem is referees allow certain players to get away with it time after time and teams know they will be allowed to do it.

Creating a separate punishment specifically for stopping counter attacks just makes footballs rules even more convoluted and open for debate, for one how exactly does a referee determine whether a foul was committed during a counter attack or not.

 

[Green_Red]

I called that Chiellini tackle on Sako a red card when I seen it. He would have been through on goal so definitely should have been. The rule is supposed to be a red card for stopping goal scoring opportunity but was Chiellini the last player? Tough luck sometimes on those decisions. Does it need tougher rules? I don't think so, it just needs to be enforced consistently.

 

[tenpoless]

Witch treatment.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I called that Chiellini tackle on Sako a red card when I seen it. He would have been through on goal so definitely should have been. The rule is supposed to be a red card for stopping goal scoring opportunity but was Chiellini the last player? Tough luck sometimes on those decisions. Does it need tougher rules? I don't think so, it just needs to be enforced consistently.

This is where the sin bin would have been perfect.

A yellow card + 5 minute sin bin makes it heavy enough to make the defender think twice.

A yellow alone they can take on the chin, a red card is probably too harsh and would rarely ever be given due to gaining a permanent advantage.

 

[horsechoker]

Orange card: the player is sprayed with orange tango (Fanta if Tango is not available)

 

[Bubz27]

Rooney got red and a 3 match ban(?) for this.

What Chiellini did was worse in my opinion. Grabbing a player around the throat with their shirt and yanking them to the ground.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Not at all. That's what yellow cards should be for.

Or the idea of a 5/10 minute sin bin but one involving a small ring and a pack of hungry snarling dogs.

 

[Nickelodeon]

If the yellow cards are allocated correctly (i.e. when a player deliberately fouls an opponent with the intent of stopping a counter), then there is no problem. But the likes of Busquets and Fernandinho have this uncanny ability of avoiding yellow cards despite numerous deliberate fouls. Watching on TV, it is quite clear which challenges deserve a yellow and which don't. But for some reason, the entire referee community has decided to become oblivious to it.

 

[Withnail]

Be careful what you wish for.

Without the safety net of a tacical foul it will only serve to make teams more cautious which in turn will serve up more boring games than there already is.

I disagree - At it's worst it's when a team like City do it against a minnow who wasn't going to see much of the ball and the few chances they get to counter attack are snuffed out by an unpunished cynical foul. As far as I'm concerned being strong on these fouls will only even up the playing field a bit.

 

[Bestofthebest]

It’s a part of football I absolutely hate. When a counter attack is stopped by a cynical foul where there is no attempt to play the ball. Refs always give yellow cards for it and it’s a major tactic for the likes of Pep, Klopp and Poch.

Chiellini’s foul on Saka was a prime example of a player making no attempt to play the ball yet he’s potentially stopped a goal scoring opportunity. I’ve seen quite a few people online saying it’s a red card, but I’m sure this has come from people who don’t regularly watch football. We all know it’s a yellow card challenge, but is that really right? Would you want to see harsher punishment for fouls in that scenario?

I don’t think it warrants a red card but some form of sin bin for stopping counter attacks would be interesting. This would make defenders think twice. Do they let the attacker go at the risk of the team being down to 10 men for 15 minutes?

I agree with just about everything you have said here and have had similar thoughts myself for some time. The only negative I can think of is that the authorities would find a way of cocking it up. Just like they have with VAR.

 

[Jev]

I think deliberate freekicks to avoid a goalscoring chance should be a red card, plain and simple. It's cheating and against the spirit of the game. I'd much rather see red cards given for cynical, intentional fouls than accidental challenges with no malicious intent.

It would seem very extreme at first but after a few years when players had gotten used to not making deliberate fouls, I think most would agree it had improved the game.

 

[JG3001]

There isn't really much to do about it though, either you give red, which is as you said, too harsh, or you give yellow, which may be too mild.

There is no middle ground between not sending of someone, and sending of someone.

Sin bin rules, not saying I’m necessarily an advocate, but there is a certain amount of cynicism in these challenges, that it never feels like a yellow is enough.

 

[Kentonio]

I'm fine with a yellow, but refs need to be more consistent like so many have already said. Then again refs just need to improve in general to solve a lot of problems.