X-File 04 - Mediums, spiritualism, past life regression e.t.c.

[Rood]

No that's not what I'm talking about. How are the 'psychic waves', or whatever, transmitted? What kind of particle/wave is emitted and where is it received? Then we can look for these emissions...

No idea - dont even know if there is anything being transmitted in the first place.
Difficult to try and explain things that are beyond the realms of currently accepted science by use of scientific terms.

Why do you want to believe that cheap magic tricks are actually ESP?

More likely these people are con artists or mistaken, than possessors of powers that nobody has ever detected.

It is not about what I want to believe - Im mostly here to debunk the debunkers
I got involved in this one because a couple of people tried to claim that because no one had won a reward put forward by some random guy in USA that it was proof that ESP didnt exist.

I have already said that I believe that the vast majority of self proclaimed mediums/psychics etc are just entertainers or charlatans - still doesnt rule out the possiblity of such powers existing.

 

[Partizan]

No idea - dont even know if there is anything being transmitted in the first place.
Difficult to try and explain things that are beyond the realms of currently accepted science by use of scientific terms.




It is not about what I want to believe - Im mostly here to debunk the debunkers
I got involved in this one because a couple of people tried to claim that because no one had won a reward put forward by some random guy in USA that it was proof that ESP didnt exist.

I have already said that I believe that the vast majority of self proclaimed mediums/psychics etc are just entertainers or charlatans - still doesnt rule out the possiblity of such powers existing.

The possibility of ESP, and that of communing with the dead, are two completely seperate things.

 

[Red Hand Devil]

Whether anyone cares to believe me i'm not bothered, but my mates Sister from Dublin has the gift & has found the whereabouts of dead bodies/missing persons etc as they contacted her from the otherside!

She had a monk come to her door when she was in her teens (she's late 30's now) but she expected him somehow. He came to encourage her gift, she was freaked out by it all & didnt want to. It wont go away either & the cops still try to get her to help find dead people!

She's a nice woman but I dont particluarly like being around her, its hard to explain, its just very eerie, as she's said to people things that are gonna happen to them & its actually happened. She's a bittuva messer aswell, so she'll say your grandmother is standing behind you, the you'd go "really?" and she'd say "noooooooooooo!"

I dont like the thought of someone having a gift like that & being around them, incase they tell me something i dont wanna hear!

 

[Rood]

The possibility of ESP, and that of communing with the dead, are two completely seperate things.

that is true - although of course, the ability to communicate with the dead could be an ESP but it does raise a lot of extra questions about afterlife etc

 

[crappycraperson]

Whether anyone cares to believe me i'm not bothered, but my mates Sister from Dublin has the gift & has found the whereabouts of dead bodies/missing persons etc as they contacted her from the otherside!

She had a monk come to her door when she was in her teens (she's late 30's now) but she expected him somehow. He came to encourage her gift, she was freaked out by it all & didnt want to. It wont go away either & the cops still try to get her to help find dead people!

She's a nice woman but I dont particluarly like being around her, its hard to explain, its just very eerie, as she's said to people things that are gonna happen to them & its actually happened. She's a bittuva messer aswell, so she'll say your grandmother is standing behind you, the you'd go "really?" and she'd say "noooooooooooo!"

I dont like the thought of someone having a gift like that & being around them, incase they tell me something i dont wanna hear!

 

[Rood]

Whether anyone cares to believe me i'm not bothered ...

Nice story either way - can you give any specifics or more details about her 'gift'?

 

[Partizan]

that is true - although of course, the ability to communicate with the dead could be an ESP but it does raise a lot of extra questions about afterlife etc

And if my auntie was my Uncle..........................the only proper measure for such claims is the scientific method, and whilst Mediums refiuse to submit their claims to its rigour(the few that have have failed miserably) we are left with what ifs and maybes, not to mention logical falicies.

 

[SAred]

proves nothing - not everyone is motivated by money or fame

the big problem with psychics/mediums etc is that the vast majority are clearly fakers - makes it difficult to work out if there are any with real abilities.

That is a problem who to believe. I had a reading once and quite frankly what a load of BS she was sprouting. Then I had my palms read and that was far more convincing and told me things that were quite mind blowing.

 

[Rood]

noticed in the listings that there is a doc on BBC3 tonight (9pm) about a spiritual healer:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00jhbb3

Twenty-year-old Gary Mannion calls himself Britain's youngest psychic surgeon, channelling a spirit from the dead to operate on the sick. He is a rising star in the world of spiritual healing, travelling the world to bring his alleged ability to effect miracle cures to a devoted following.

In Young, Psychic and Possessed filmmaker Emeka Onono follows Gary as he tries to prove he really does have the power to heal. It is a journey into the supernatural that will challenge both sceptics and true believers. Emeka hears stories of miracle cures, watches Gary operate, and even participates in seances, before turning to science to try to separate fact from fantasy.

 

[peterstorey]

The irrationalists got a bigger thumping than you lot got from Liverpool the other day. Laughable stuff - did you know that Abraham (yep the Biblical one) was semi-literate and talks like a bad double glazing salesman? 'I've dissolved your gall stone wiv me pyscho powers' - hoorah. Cut to MRI scan: 'You have a 1.6cm stone as you can clearly see on screen'.

 

[Rood]

The irrationalists got a bigger thumping than you lot got from Liverpool the other day. Laughable stuff - did you know that Abraham (yep the Biblical one) was semi-literate and talks like a bad double glazing salesman? 'I've dissolved your gall stone wiv me pyscho powers' - hoorah. Cut to MRI scan: 'You have a 1.6cm stone as you can clearly see on screen'.

Apologies for flagging it up - it was a shite programme!

I did like his reaction when they told him that the gall stone was still there and the Abraham 'possession' was hilarious

the one thing that it does make me think about is whether the guy is just a pure faker or whether he actually believes it all himself?

I wish they had spent more time with the psychic pole dancer - that would have been a much better programme ...

 

[peterstorey]

I wish they had spent more time with the psychic pole dancer - that would have been a much better programme ...

It was actually quite interesting since I've come across a number of these bullshitters in another context and was pleased to have my prejudices confirmed. I suspect she wasn't doing much dancing round his pole unlike his 'friend'.

 

[Rood]

It was actually quite interesting since I've come across a number of these bullshitters in another context and was pleased to have my prejudices confirmed. I suspect she wasn't doing much dancing round his pole unlike his 'friend'.

I did find it interesting to see the type of people who were his 'patients' - like the women with the gall stone, even after being shown that the stone had not gone away, she still defended him and wanted to continue her treatments.

Some people would say that she was stupid/deluded etc but, even if it is just on a mental rather than physical level, she was actually benefitting from the sessions with him and reporting reductions in pain etc.

 

[peterstorey]

I did find it interesting to see the type of people who were his 'patients' - like the women with the gall stone, even after being shown that the stone had not gone away, she still defended him and wanted to continue her treatments.

Some people would say that she was stupid/deluded etc but, even if it is just on a mental rather than physical level, she was actually benefitting from the sessions with him and reporting reductions in pain etc.

Most of them seemed to be sexless middle-aged women it seemed (whereas the sceptics were sexless middle-aged men).

 

[nickm]

It is not about what I want to believe - Im mostly here to debunk the debunkers
I got involved in this one because a couple of people tried to claim that because no one had won a reward put forward by some random guy in USA that it was proof that ESP didnt exist.

No, James Randi isn't just some random guy. He's probably the most famous scientific skeptic in the world, an ex-magician, and has consistently put his money where his mouth is, hence the million dollar challenge. He is co-founder of CSICOP, one of the leading organisations in this area. He has exposed many frauds.

I have already said that I believe that the vast majority of self proclaimed mediums/psychics etc are just entertainers or charlatans - still doesnt rule out the possiblity of such powers existing.

You can never rule out the possibility, just as you can't rule out the possibility that god exists, or fairies. All you can do is properly test each claim, and so far, nobody has passed. That's good enough for me.

 

[Merman]

Most of them seemed to be sexless middle-aged women it seemed (whereas the sceptics were sexless middle-aged men).

 

[Merman]

I find this to be a very small minded view of things - some random guy that the vast majority of the planet have never heard of is offering a reward for proof of paranormal powers and no one has claimed it - so fecking what?

this kind of media stunt mostly just applies to debunking the kind of celebrity mediums that appear on TV in the USA etc - i dont have much time for any of that bullshit anyway - they are entertainers who put on a show and nothing more.

It is well documented that MoD and other government organisations have spent a lot of time and money researching the potential of psychics and other paranormal activity - in fact they have been doing it for decades, if they never found anything of any use then why would they continue spending time and money on this?

This.

 

[Partizan]

This.

Did you actually bother to read any of the posts after this? or does it just fit your worldview?

 

[lynchie]

Did you actually bother to read any of the posts after this? or does it just fit your worldview?

This.

 

[Rood]

Did you actually bother to read any of the posts after this? or does it just fit your worldview?

I dont actually see how any of the posts after mine have invalidated any of the points that I made

 

[Partizan]

I dont actually see how any of the posts after mine have invalidated any of the points that I made

No, I dont expect you have.

 

[nickm]

I dont actually see how any of the posts after mine have invalidated any of the points that I made

Read 'The Demon Haunted World' by Carl Sagan, then let's see if you still think that.

 

[Rood]

Read 'The Demon Haunted World' by Carl Sagan, then let's see if you still think that.

I'll add it to my list of books to read one day ...

Read the wiki synopsis and found this interesting:

Sagan provides a skeptical analysis of several kinds of superstition, fraud, pseudoscience and religious beliefs, such as gods, witches, UFOs, ESP and faith healing. However, based on what he describes as "some, although still dubious experimental support," Sagan calls for serious scrutiny of a handful of seemingly inexplicable phenomena such as reincarnation and psychokinesis, not because he regards them as likely to be true, but because anomalous data deserves close scientific study.

 

[nickm]

I'll add it to my list of books to read one day ...

Read the wiki synopsis and found this interesting:

Sagan provides a skeptical analysis of several kinds of superstition, fraud, pseudoscience and religious beliefs, such as gods, witches, UFOs, ESP and faith healing. However, based on what he describes as "some, although still dubious experimental support," Sagan calls for serious scrutiny of a handful of seemingly inexplicable phenomena such as reincarnation and psychokinesis, not because he regards them as likely to be true, but because anomalous data deserves close scientific study.

It was also Sagan who coined the phrase, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary levels of evidence" so don't get your hopes up.

 

[Red Hand Devil]

It was also Sagan who coined the phrase, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary levels of evidence" so don't get your hopes up.

To be fair - thats a fair point to be fair to the point being made - of which it was to be fair, like i said