I love how @Alock1 defends everything 

I'm not even in the least bit surprised how they all are. Brand loyalty is a powerful drug.I love how @Alock1 defends everything![]()
I work in advertising and increasingly ads in gaming so my vested interest is definitely there but not MS specific.I love how @Alock1 defends everything![]()
Absolutely. Protecting children and reducing interference/disruption to gaming experience is important.I'm not even in the least bit surprised how they all are. Brand loyalty is a powerful drug.
Twitch (for example of how this works) is awful for ads now, not because they are there (if it's free content ads are fair in the right way), but the way/when they are placed, the contracts and the content in them is woeful. Not to mention the blatant pushing techniques (like volume/as soon as you change stream). All aimed towards kids as much as anybody.
There's serious questions to be raised about stuff like this creeping in and how MS would handle it.
Agreed, Twitch ads are awful, not because that they're there but because of when they're shown. As soon as you start watching someone you get an ad unless the streamer has turned off that option. Only bigger streamers would do that, which basically means small streamers are a chore to watch as you see an ad before you see them. Such an intrusive and purely money-making decision.I'm not even in the least bit surprised how they all are. Brand loyalty is a powerful drug.
Twitch (for example of how this works) is awful for ads now, not because they are there (if it's free content ads are fair in the right way), but the way/when they are placed, the contracts and the content in them is woeful. Not to mention the blatant pushing techniques (like volume/as soon as you change stream). All aimed towards kids as much as anybody.
There's serious questions to be raised about stuff like this creeping in and how MS would handle it.
Get Xbox via All Access (which gives you Game Pass Ultimate, which is all you really need), and consider it like a second pay monthly mobile phone purchase and then get the PS5 via the usual method. Win-win situation IMO.That's a grand!
It's your job, yet you don't watch Twitch not understand their business model or why Mixer failed? Sure the sudden move from Justin.tv to Twitch then then buyout was because of potential growth, but the revenue they generate still came from areas other than advertising primarily. In fact, I'd wager it still does going by the repetition.Not saying that MS hasn't done poor ad experiences and not saying streamers have always been fairly rewarded, but what I am saying is that advertising revenue has certainly propped up many streamers and indie publishers/content creators. It was the driving force behind the Twitch business case in the first case, but also the key motivation behind the Amazon purchase. No doubt they are bleeding it for what it's worth and delivering a poor experience. I've no doubt that'll catch up with them as streamers and consumers move attention to youtube and other competing platforms.
How companies use our data and how they deliver ads are absolutely areas of concern that can and are often abused. However, we also have to accept that we are the product in these scenarios, and there's a value exchange of 'free content' to reward us. Nobody is saying that MS are doing this for altruistic purposes. But I am saying that there is potential for this to be a) an option for those who don't want to commit money but would rather give up their time, and is therefore not mandatory (ie. If you have gamepass ultimate, you don't need to consume ads) and b) a way for indie devs to reduce entry barriers to capture engaged audiences without having to sell on a streaming platform.
Not playing devil's advocate mate. It's literally my job. Vested interest and bias though - sure, that's totally fair.
Loll not much bigger I can go so all good on that front. Thanks though.Oh and yeah, you are against NFTs. I know why that is also. But do you honestly not see what is going on there? You surely must have had meetings about it! If not, then I'd move up to a bigger company who are jumping on the bandwagon, no matter the amount of wheels it has.
What did Klarna do?DO NOT GET XBOX ACCESS.
feck that shit, feck Klarna and how evil they are. feck MS for allowing the highest bidders to control that shite without due dilligence.
Twitch do a "reasonably priced subscription" do they not? One that rivals the likes of Netflix and all that?The 'my job' bit isn't me claiming I know more. Its me saying that my views don't come from a place of willingness to be bent over and fecked by Microsoft through being a fan boy, nor is it naivity as you'd suggest.
That ads are not the be all and end all of these models - agreed. But they certainly play their part and ensure a different audience (that won't subscribe, won't donate and won't buy) can engage with, and help to offer an experience that pushes those other models (ie. Bombard with ads might turn a user away, but it may turn another user to subscribe). And certainly a massive motivating factor for the huge corps to acquire those media owners alongside the data play which goes hand in hand.
There is an inevitability that comes with all this. I haven't disputed anything you have said, and you haven't actually challenged me on 1. Whether indie devs could profit from a commercial model that allows them to make money from ads as an option that allows them to forego partnering with a streaming subscription; and 2. that it represents a value exchange for gamers where they can access content without subscribing / buying a battle pass or parting with any money at all.
On your main points on the subject, that we should be concerned how they use our data - agreed, something that needs to be watched. Advertising is making progress in this space thanks to 3rd party cookie collapse and consent requirements so important that stuff follows through. That indie devs may not benefit as they should - agreed, but I think the models that win out will be the models that do reward those indie devs. That we will probably have a poor experience (e.g. twitch) - agreed that this will be the case from some. But again, I think the ones that win out are the ones that provide a fair value exchange for peoples time consuming ads/giving up data, and offer people a reasonably priced subscription option to avoid the ad experience all together.
Oh yes, the scam is real.Loll not much bigger I can go so all good on that front. Thanks though.
Unfortunately I am in plenty of NFT meetings and don't agree with a lot of it. There's some cool stuff that can be done with it, but so much potential for abuse and unfortunately the use cases being put forward by those leading in the space at the moment aren't ones that fill me with tons of confidence.
There's also just some bizarre plans that brands have for the sake of doing something in this space that have no merit or value at all but that's always the case with this type of thing.
Christ, where to begin on their business practices.What did Klarna do?
Yes but like I said the ones I think will win out will offer a fair value exchange to consumers and to content creators too. Offering a reasonably priced sub is only one part of the equation.Twitch do a "reasonably priced subscription" do they not? One that rivals the likes of Netflix and all that?
How much of that goes to the content creators?
You and I both know that the figures are already fudged for the gamepass and it's not sustainable, hence why they are looking at further streams such as this. Subsidies only last so long.
The fact is this business model will work in the way it's supposed to, but to act like it's going to actually benefit to developers or gamers in any way shape or form is a huge stretch. I mean again, we are already seeing the effects of "subscriptions" in gaming are we not? Or do we ignore the shear amount of developers both small and large being absorbed as they can't compete.
I know we do agree ultimately on this. But I still say you will agree even more when you personally see the effects for yourself down the line.
Jeez louise they sound dodgy as feckChrist, where to begin on their business practices.
But if you are aware of dodgy lenders who prey on the poor, then they are the new Kings. Including in the early days when access was severely limited by stock, they rejected people with decent credit history to take on those without because they earn more in late payment fees/fines than interest. They deliberately gave priority to those most vulnerable, I spoke about it at the time as I had a battle with them myself over what they did, and won after being made aware and looked into what actually happened. They are like Wonga/Aqua and all that in the UK, only they have on a much larger scale.
That's all before what they do with your data and how they have roots in various countries specifically to get around data protection laws. Which most of them do of course, but Klarna are particularly aggressive with selling your data.
And you'll never know about it. Until you run into issues and/or check your credit report and see what they do.
Right, for a start it's way too early to tell how subscription services have and will impact TV and films. Again, a lot more that is subsidised. As for quality, are you sure about that? Netflix, for example, has some incredibly shady practices there. Some should come to light more over the whole channel 4 situation, and I'm guessing you are in favour of that situation too?Yes but like I said the ones I think will win out will offer a fair value exchange to consumers and to content creators too. Offering a reasonably priced sub is only one part of the equation.
The rest I think we agree I think it is just which perspective you take. It's the same with YouTube. Does most of the ad revenue sit with Google? Yes. Do content creators get their fair share for their efforts? Almost certainly not. Is it easy to make a living this way? Definitely not. However, has it diversified content to the point anyone, anywhere can deliver news, commentary and entertainment - Yes. They can make a living off it, and we aren't stuck with the same tightly controlled and influenced 5 channel choice as the few decades before it.
For me gaming is just following the foot steps of TV but 7/8 years behind. We have seen tons of consolidation there too with the move to subscription services, but it has also come with more quality content than ever before, more money and higher production values across the board than ever before, and for productions from all over the world gain global scaled audiences that would have never previously been attainable.
Whether or not ads in gaming is a net positive I'm not sure, but I certainly don't think it's all doom and gloom, and do think some good can come with it. But I would say that. Cause I am and will be part of the problem.
Dodgy as feck would be good.Jeez louise they sound dodgy as feck
Those things are an utter bitch.I'm in this purple looking area in or beyond the Lower Miasma in Tunic now. Those purple spider things that sap your max health and split into smaller ones can do one, annoying little shits. I wish I had some better ranged options, everything runs out so quickly.
I'm not even in the least bit surprised how they all are. Brand loyalty is a powerful drug.
This about sums you up. Try reading what I've actually said about advertising in gaming so far, and MS' track record rather than jump to the myopic defence of your favourite brand. I don't care about the "other side" comment, for me this is about the way advertising will be used, not about adverts being used at all and that goes across all the space.there’s only side obsessed with their choice of gaming console.
The only difference is here you’ve gone with the worst case scenario because you like being angry at gaming things, and we’ve gone with what they’ve actually said. Of course it could creep. If it does then they will be rightly criticised.
Anywho...They sure are. Anywho...
You ok hun?This about sums you up. Try reading what I've actually said about advertising in gaming so far, and MS' track record rather than jump to the myopic defence of your favourite brand. I don't care about the "other side" comment, for me this is about the way advertising will be used, not about adverts being used at all and that goes across all the space.
As for "worst case scenario" no, I just think things like this should be questioned from the off considering the current applications in gaming spaces. You just accept anything and don't care about the effects, others do. That's all it really boils down to.
Trust you to be out of touch on your memes.You ok hun?
Noice!
Another one for Gamepass soon.