Yet another Tactical Masterclass from Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Whoop whoop!

[R77]

I've been a staunchly in the Ole in camp, but accept things aren't looking good. Reason is reason.

The weird aggressive language, attacking other fans is something I don't understand though. The word 'deluded' should autocorrect to 'people who hold a different opinion to me and I need to attack them, waaaaaah, blub blub'

Christ.

 

[BR7]

I've been a staunchly in the Ole in camp, but accept things aren't looking good. Reason is reason.

The weird aggressive language, attacking other fans is something I don't understand though. The word 'deluded' should autocorrect to 'people who hold a different opinion to me and I need to attack them, waaaaaah, blub blub'

Christ.

Ah bless ya for helping and supporting the ruination of the greatest football club on earth.

 

[R77]

Well done for ignorning the first line of what I wrote. Confirmation bias at it's finest.

Take care.

 

[BR7]

No I saw it but sick of these comments it doesn’t look good ie still leaving the door open for him to stay. Don’t play clever

 

[Robbie Boy]

I've been a staunchly in the Ole in camp, but accept things aren't looking good. Reason is reason.

The weird aggressive language, attacking other fans is something I don't understand though. The word 'deluded' should autocorrect to 'people who hold a different opinion to me and I need to attack them, waaaaaah, blub blub'

Christ.

Most of it is in retort to the all the wummy shite after we win a game. I've seen plenty of abuse dished out to people who have questioned Ole, after the wins against Newcastle, PSG and Leipzig.

So stop pretending it's one side. For me, the overly aggressive wumming is mostly from a handful of the stauch Ole in crew. Then yeah, people end up reacting and the childish insults start. Look at the fecking state of this thread and it's title. You can't seriously believe it was made in good faith? It's arrogant, pretentious wumming and an attempt to be as loud as possible to shut down contrasting opinions.

I've no problem with people who want him to stay or go. I can see both sides but I'm leaning towards wanting him gone. It's how a very small minority convey these opinions which is causing problems. The overwhelming majority can debate in a rational manner. This thread and the OP have zero intentions of being rational. Anyone indulging him is as bad. It's borderline bullying other people who have a contrasting opinion and it's pathetic.

 

[Siorac]

There seems to a lot of those about these days.

Would they afford him the same level of unequivocal support if he hadn’t played for the club? I don’t think so.

I never want us to appoint another former player again. People’s hearts are ruling their heads with Ole.

I'm not sure if it has a lot to do with being a former player. I mean the thread starter himself was a MASSIVE Mourinho supporter right until his final days here. He's from the "support the manager above all else" school of thought, and so are many others.

The criticism is, overall, somewhat tempered by his status as a United legend but the staunchest supporters are behind him because of the whole "sack everyone before the manager" philosophy.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I'm not sure if it has a lot to do with being a former player. I mean the thread starter himself was a MASSIVE Mourinho supporter right until his final days here. He's from the "support the manager above all else" school of thought, and so are many others.

The criticism is, overall, somewhat tempered by his status as a United legend but the staunchest supporters are behind him because of the whole "sack everyone before the manager" philosophy.

Probably true overall but I've noticed a few who were anti-Jose throughout his whole tenure here being incredibly pro Ole. Twigginator and Dobba are two that immediately spring to mind, and that's clearly because the former was a "bad fit" for the ethos of Man Utd and the latter is a club legend with the right values or whatever bollox.

 

[Siorac]

Probably true overall but I've noticed a few who were anti-Jose throughout his whole tenure here being incredibly pro Ole. Twigginator and Dobba are two that immediately spring to mind, and that's clearly because the former was a "bad fit" for the ethos of Man Utd and the latter is a club legend with the right values or whatever bollox.

Yeah it's probably a mix of the two types. Though worth noting that for Twiggy, Mourinho was pretty much an exception in terms of his attitude: he just always really hated him.

 

[BR7]

Jose Mourinho had no right managing this club after his behaviour with Porto. Always detested him and never wanted him. I don’t think ole is good enough with Jose it was personal with ole it isn’t. He just ain’t got it and my club means more to me than ole does

 

[R77]

Most of it is in retort to the all the wummy shite after we win a game. I've seen plenty of abuse dished out to people who have questioned Ole, after the wins against Newcastle, PSG and Leipzig.

So stop pretending it's one side. For me, the overly aggressive wumming is mostly from a handful of the stauch Ole in crew. Then yeah, people end up reacting and the childish insults start. Look at the fecking state of this thread and it's title. You can't seriously believe it was made in good faith? It's arrogant, pretentious wumming and an attempt to be as loud as possible to shut down contrasting opinions.

I've no problem with people who want him to stay or go. I can see both sides but I'm leaning towards wanting him gone. It's how a very small minority convey these opinions which is causing problems. The overwhelming majority can debate in a rational manner. This thread and the OP have zero intentions of being rational. Anyone indulging him is as bad. It's borderline bullying other people who have a contrasting opinion and it's pathetic.

Points that all range from 'fair' to 'bang on', and thanks for the reasoned discussion. You're right about the nature of the thread I guess, I've actually unwatched it, and other related ones now. Even toward the negative outcome, it's too early, if only by weeks, so I consider it pointless toxicity when I (and everyone else) am looking at being locked in my home for god knows how long again.

Shouldn't have bit, but am fed up of seeing the word 'deluded' thrown around. It's an insult, basically. Lots of folks writing 'you are ignoring content by this member, click to show content' for some reason at the mo. Very weird

At some point we'll be an excellent team again, that's all I know. Months, years? Dunno. Until then strap in and enjoy the ride.

 

[VivaObertan]

Where's all this negativity come from? I get we lost a rubbish game but It's like people forgot we had a shambles of a transfer window, no pre-season and just beat PSG and Leipzig 7-1 combined. I'm sure I read a ton of posts literally 5 days ago about how we're back as a European force.

Sidenote but I hate how 99% of the fanbase are in agreement that Woodward has set Ole up to fail in pre-season but then as soon as the season starts, he should be judged as if we landed Sancho, Upamecano and whoever else our primary targets are.

We will finish top 4 this season and shouldn't expect any higher. City, Liverpool and Chelsea had much better windows this summer and their signings are already making a difference. We landed our 3rd choice CF and a squad CM.

 

[Gabagoo]

Where's all this negativity come from? I get we lost a rubbish game but It's like people forgot we had a shambles of a transfer window, no pre-season and just beat PSG and Leipzig 7-1 combined. I'm sure I read a ton of posts literally 5 days ago about how we're back as a European force.

It's not one rubbish performance, it's four awful performances and one 'alright' performance, out of six, in the league so far this season. We played well against Newcastle only.

We spent big money in the transfer window so no bitching from Ole. We didn't buy a winger but Solskjaer can thank himself for that, because all it would have taken is for Ole to have told Woodward to switch targets from Sancho to someone gettable, like Saint-Maximin (who would have been a huge improvement on what we have) for us to have landed somebody.

We had no pre-season, that's a fair reason.

The people who were writing 'positive' posts, or posts claiming that Solskjaer is a 'genius', or that we're 'back', were not the same set of posters that are calling for a change of manager, so no one is being hypocritical or knee-jerk.

The average standard of football now, compared to when Solskjaer started, is not decidedly better. That's not questionable. What's questionable is, given that we haven't improved the football, whether it's worth sticking with the manager. Some will say 'yes', some will say 'no'.

 

[eire-red]

We could’ve said the same thing about Martial under Mourinho.. however I am starting to lose patience with pogba too, but I do wonder, under a different manager, maybe he can be the star that he’s supposed to be.

Yeah true, Martial got a lot of hate as well, but he was 21/22 at the time, and people could see the talent in him. I think that saved him. But you're right, sometimes a manager can unlock potential in a player.


Pogba is 27 though, a WC winner, and one of the most expensive players ever, and probably the highest paid at the club. There's no room for potential expectations anymore, he has to start delivering right now, or he needs to go. The pressure is on him cause he's not replacing Bruno in that team, but doesn't seem to have the tactical knowhow or desire to maybe reinvest himself as a player who can contribute in a different role.

Martial wasn't sold because we needed his goalscoring ability at the time, his ability to create, beat players and cause problems for other teams. It looks to me like we don't really need Pogba's flair and creativity in the team anymore. All we're getting right now is the downside from playing a defensively poor player out of position, and in areas of the pitch where he doesn't want to be, and no manager in their right mind should want him to be.

Pogba could do better, but Ole also needs to answer for his team selection.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Points that all range from 'fair' to 'bang on', and thanks for the reasoned discussion. You're right about the nature of the thread I guess, I've actually unwatched it, and other related ones now. Even toward the negative outcome, it's too early, if only by weeks, so I consider it pointless toxicity when I (and everyone else) am looking at being locked in my home for god knows how long again.

Shouldn't have bit, but am fed up of seeing the word 'deluded' thrown around. It's an insult, basically. Lots of folks writing 'you are ignoring content by this member, click to show content' for some reason at the mo. Very weird

At some point we'll be an excellent team again, that's all I know. Months, years? Dunno. Until then strap in and enjoy the ride.

I hear you. Football is a good outlet for us at the moment as most of us are WFH, can't go the gym and do other social activities which we are used to. So it becomes tedious coming on here- which I enjoy doing - and see the same wums sparking up yet more animosity and creating further divisions. The OP and the thread title all smack of passive aggressive nonsense which is only designed to cause trouble and nothing more.

I mean, we surely all want what's best for the club and blind support towards a manager isn't a positive trait, despite what some think. If you become so entrenched in your beliefs that he's the right man then you'll lack the ability to have reasoned, nuanced discussion. I'm not sure what the OP is trying to achieve on here lately, but his behaviour is absolutely disgraceful. There's zero desire to engage in anything resembling a rational exchange.

Opinions are opinions and we all have them. But it becomes obnoxious when you need to be loud and aggressive so that you can belittle converse opinions. This thead and his posts in other threads are the equivalent of running around screaming in peoples faces "I'm right and you're wrong" while screaming louder and making ridiculous claims if they try explaining their views/opinions. As I said, most are debating in a pleasant manner and are willing to amend their opinions based on evidence. However, there's too much selecting of stats and cherry picking from both sides at times which can cause problems.

I've seen posters going around especially after the Leipzig game saying things like "Haha look at some of these clowns trying to say they rate Ole now. Well they can't because I was right all along and you were wrong". Obviously I'm paraphrasing but that's honestly the jist of it. I mean, for one grow the feck up and two; on the one hand these same fans have been crying out over fans not being able to change their opinions on Ole, but when they do, they're basically told to feck off. Then you have have the rational ones like @Bobcat and @Withnail who are more than willing to have a pleasant debate and don't affiliate themselves with troublesome posters, just because they're on their 'side'.

 

[El Zoido]

Most of it is in retort to the all the wummy shite after we win a game. I've seen plenty of abuse dished out to people who have questioned Ole, after the wins against Newcastle, PSG and Leipzig.

So stop pretending it's one side. For me, the overly aggressive wumming is mostly from a handful of the stauch Ole in crew. Then yeah, people end up reacting and the childish insults start. Look at the fecking state of this thread and it's title. You can't seriously believe it was made in good faith? It's arrogant, pretentious wumming and an attempt to be as loud as possible to shut down contrasting opinions.

I've no problem with people who want him to stay or go. I can see both sides but I'm leaning towards wanting him gone. It's how a very small minority convey these opinions which is causing problems. The overwhelming majority can debate in a rational manner. This thread and the OP have zero intentions of being rational. Anyone indulging him is as bad. It's borderline bullying other people who have a contrasting opinion and it's pathetic.

You have it backwards, the “wumming” from the Ole-in crowd is more of a reaction to the sheer number of “fans” who have hated him from day one. Some fans had knives out before he did a day as caretaker. It’s also the idiotic arrogance of fans who love to state so matter-of-factly that he’s a “bad coach” when he’s infinitely more qualified than any of the hateful morons who keep calling him a PE teacher.

 

[devilish]

Ole sits at the cusp between greatness and failure. His heart is at the right place, he's learning fast and he's got some good ideas that can upset the best of managers at times. There's no doubt that under his administration United had improved greatly in terms of dressing room, morale and transfers. However his tactics against small sides are limited and he commits tactical mistakes that are often avoidable at managers of this level.

I won't go into Ole in or Ole out. However if we want the man to succeed then he needs some serious help in terms of coaching, sporting director etc. He simply can't keep on relying on possibly the most inexperienced coaching staff in football

 

[Robbie Boy]

You have it backwards, the “wumming” from the Ole-in crowd is more of a reaction to the sheer number of “fans” who have hated him from day one. Some fans had knives out before he did a day as caretaker. It’s also the idiotic arrogance of fans who love to state so matter-of-factly that he’s a “bad coach” when he’s infinitely more qualified than any of the hateful morons who keep calling him a PE teacher.

No it's both sides and right now it's clear which one is stirring the most shit.

 

[Cloud7]

I hear you. Football is a good outlet for us at the moment as most of us are WFH, can't go the gym and do other social activities which we are used to. So it becomes tedious coming on here- which I enjoy doing - and see the same wums sparking up yet more animosity and creating further divisions. The OP and the thread title all smack of passive aggressive nonsense which is only designed to cause trouble and nothing more.

I mean, we surely all want what's best for the club and blind support towards a manager isn't a positive trait, despite what some think. If you become so entrenched in your beliefs that he's the right man then you'll lack the ability to have reasoned, nuanced discussion. I'm not sure what the OP is trying to achieve on here lately, but his behaviour is absolutely disgraceful. There's zero desire to engage in anything resembling a rational exchange.

Opinions are opinions and we all have them. But it becomes obnoxious when you need to be loud and aggressive so that you can belittle converse opinions. This thead and his posts in other threads are the equivalent of running around screaming in peoples faces "I'm right and you're wrong" while screaming louder and making ridiculous claims if they try explaining their views/opinions. As I said, most are debating in a pleasant manner and are willing to amend their opinions based on evidence. However, there's too much selecting of stats and cherry picking from both sides at times which can cause problems.

I've seen posters going around especially after the Leipzig game saying things like "Haha look at some of these clowns trying to say they rate Ole now. Well they can't because I was right all along and you were wrong". Obviously I'm paraphrasing but that's honestly the jist of it. I mean, for one grow the feck up and two; on the one hand these same fans have been crying out over fans not being able to change their opinions on Ole, but when they do, they're basically told to feck off. Then you have have the rational ones like @Bobcat and @Withnail who are more than willing to have a pleasant debate and don't affiliate themselves with troublesome posters, just because they're on their 'side'.

Yeah the OP has repeatedly replied to posts saying that the posters in question are happy about United losing, celebrating our losses, tears of joy etc. Like, how is that meant to be conducive to any sort of discussion?

 

[Client6]

Most of it is in retort to the all the wummy shite after we win a game. I've seen plenty of abuse dished out to people who have questioned Ole, after the wins against Newcastle, PSG and Leipzig.

So stop pretending it's one side. For me, the overly aggressive wumming is mostly from a handful of the stauch Ole in crew. Then yeah, people end up reacting and the childish insults start. Look at the fecking state of this thread and it's title. You can't seriously believe it was made in good faith? It's arrogant, pretentious wumming and an attempt to be as loud as possible to shut down contrasting opinions.

I've no problem with people who want him to stay or go. I can see both sides but I'm leaning towards wanting him gone. It's how a very small minority convey these opinions which is causing problems. The overwhelming majority can debate in a rational manner. This thread and the OP have zero intentions of being rational. Anyone indulging him is as bad. It's borderline bullying other people who have a contrasting opinion and it's pathetic.

I can't speak for OP but the way I see it, this thread is very obviously an exaggeration and brings over-the-top positivity to balance out similar unwarranted, incessant, exaggerated, and over-the-top negativity on this website. To your point in the bolded bit above, this thread was never meant to be a serious thread but people have fallen for it. Ofcourse this is all my opinion as I cannot read OP's mind but for me, this thread is only mimicking the fact that there are a number of threads created on this forum for every single game United loses just that these threads are created when United wins. FFS we have threads asking if we will be relegated. This thread is just holding up a mirror when the team wins.

You have it backwards, the “wumming” from the Ole-in crowd is more of a reaction to the sheer number of “fans” who have hated him from day one. Some fans had knives out before he did a day as caretaker. It’s also the idiotic arrogance of fans who love to state so matter-of-factly that he’s a “bad coach” when he’s infinitely more qualified than any of the hateful morons who keep calling him a PE teacher.

No it's both sides and right now it's clear which one is stirring the most shit.

I agree with @El Zoido, I think the people which post unfair criticism of the manager are far, far more in number than those who unreasonably stand up for the manager. For once shit is being stirred by folks who are supporting the manager, a club legend no less, and some people cannot stand it. It's actually funny.

If you see my post history, this will be my seventh post in the past two weeks. Before this, the last time I posted was two years ago but I have regularly visited RedCafe for almost a decade before and after every game and without participating in any debate or discussion, I can tell you from afar that this place reeks of negativity and disrespect towards all and sundry either associated with playing or coaching at United or those supporting the players and coaches, especially with a highly arrogant, pretentious, and bullying phrase: "I support my club and not any one manager" or a variety thereof.

 

[croadyman]

Where's all this negativity come from? I get we lost a rubbish game but It's like people forgot we had a shambles of a transfer window, no pre-season and just beat PSG and Leipzig 7-1 combined. I'm sure I read a ton of posts literally 5 days ago about how we're back as a European force.

Sidenote but I hate how 99% of the fanbase are in agreement that Woodward has set Ole up to fail in pre-season but then as soon as the season starts, he should be judged as if we landed Sancho, Upamecano and whoever else our primary targets are.

We will finish top 4 this season and shouldn't expect any higher. City, Liverpool and Chelsea had much better windows this summer and their signings are already making a difference. We landed our 3rd choice CF and a squad CM.

Don't see us getting top 4 this season

 

[Robbie Boy]

@Client6 cheers for your well thought out post.

My overarching point is that it's a small minority on both sides that create extreme divisions. Most are well able to articulate their opinions in a reasoned, pleasant manner and are open to changing their views. Unfortunately, it's gone way beyond Ole for some, but they will use him as their excuse to act utterly obnoxious. There are a small minority of posters on both sides lowering the tone and using Ole to play out personal petty battles about who is right or wrong. Neither have an interest in listening to opposing viewpoints and just want to scream the loudest so that they get comfort in thinking they won some petty battle.

I also think there's too much of a focus on this rubbish about people calling him a PE teacher or whatever. If it was said, it was said by a tiny minority and shouldn't be used as a blanket representation for intelligent, diligent posters who have critiqued or questioned Ole. As I said, it's a small minority; however the minority tend to repeat themselves ad nauseam, so maybe it appears to be a larger percentage. But just because a small minority have posted OTT dramatic critique, it doesn't defend some of the obnoxious behaviour from some of his biggest fans in recent weeks. Some have seemed totally disinterested in having a reasoned debate.

I mean, the posts and posters aren't hard to find. You have some telling others they can't praise Ole because they're not real fans etc. Surely you know this isn't remotely constructive and is equally as bad as anything from the 'other side'. Using what a handful of Ole out posters said to justify some of the actions by the Ole in posters is weak and hypocritical. The OP in question here has serious form lately and has been on some bizarre personal crusade. Believe me, this thread was designed with the intention of causing problems and wasn't made out of joy or in good faith. Literally the OP is a passive aggressive, condescending post which is only about fanning the flames.

 

[Ludens the Red]

@Robbie Boy
Some serious truth bombs there.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Nice jinx thread this turned into ffs.

 

[soapythecat]

Tactically, another shambolic first half where we were outplayed and out thought by a team of ex Premier league Saga dudes.
Obviously it was all the players collectively forgetting the tactics and training they’d done for this match.

 

[bond19821982]

Another 45 mins to see if we will get a new thread today and if we win, what a win that would be ? From 2 goals down to a win against Istanbul.

 

[bondsname]

If Ole manages to win this game, will it be his first "comeback" win? I can't recall any other games where we managed to turn a 2-0 loss to a 3-2 win under him.

 

[Tom Cato]

Tactically, another shambolic first half where we were outplayed and out thought by a team of ex Premier league Saga dudes.
Obviously it was all the players collectively forgetting the tactics and training they’d done for this match.

In fairness, the players should not even need a tactical meeting for a game like this.

I havent read this thread but i have a feeling there are a lot of real sourpusses here who are feeling real good about the team potentially losing this game so they can be proven right.

 

[Paxi]

@Client6 cheers for your well thought out post.

My overarching point is that it's a small minority on both sides that create extreme divisions. Most are well able to articulate their opinions in a reasoned, pleasant manner and are open to changing their views. Unfortunately, it's gone way beyond Ole for some, but they will use him as their excuse to act utterly obnoxious. There are a small minority of posters on both sides lowering the tone and using Ole to play out personal petty battles about who is right or wrong. Neither have an interest in listening to opposing viewpoints and just want to scream the loudest so that they get comfort in thinking they won some petty battle.

I also think there's too much of a focus on this rubbish about people calling him a PE teacher or whatever. If it was said, it was said by a tiny minority and shouldn't be used as a blanket representation for intelligent, diligent posters who have critiqued or questioned Ole. As I said, it's a small minority; however the minority tend to repeat themselves ad nauseam, so maybe it appears to be a larger percentage. But just because a small minority have posted OTT dramatic critique, it doesn't defend some of the obnoxious behaviour from some of his biggest fans in recent weeks. Some have seemed totally disinterested in having a reasoned debate.

I mean, the posts and posters aren't hard to find. You have some telling others they can't praise Ole because they're not real fans etc. Surely you know this isn't remotely constructive and is equally as bad as anything from the 'other side'. Using what a handful of Ole out posters said to justify some of the actions by the Ole in posters is weak and hypocritical. The OP in question here has serious form lately and has been on some bizarre personal crusade. Believe me, this thread was designed with the intention of causing problems and wasn't made out of joy or in good faith. Literally the OP is a passive aggressive, condescending post which is only about fanning the flames.

Fantastic post.

 

[PoTMS]

We could play a Soccer Aid team managed by Allardyce and we would still struggle breaking them down. Anyone who thinks Ole is a master tactician is an obvious WUM.

 

[Paxi]

This thread is a train wreck by the way. Should not be allowed as @Robbie Boy says its fanning the flames.

 

[dwd]

In fairness, the players should not even need a tactical meeting for a game like this.

I havent read this thread but i have a feeling there are a lot of real sourpusses here who are feeling real good about the team potentially losing this game so they can be proven right.

No, people are pissed off because we are shit, that’s it.

 

[Robbie Boy]

This thread is a train wreck by the way. Should not be allowed as @Robbie Boy says its fanning the flames.

The fact that he started it before the match had finished, he initially had 4 nil written, says everything you need to know about his intentions.

 

[Paxi]

The fact that he started it before the match had finished, he initially had 4 nil written, says everything you need to know about his intentions.

I haven't even read the op. Thread title alone was enough for me.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I haven't even read the op. Thread title alone was enough for me.

Save your eyes from it!

 

[Fortitude]

It's very clear by now that when we have to bring the game to the opposition, we look lost and reliant on flashes of individual brilliance. It's only against teams who fancy themselves to beat us outright, or, with a goal to the good, can our natural pace and counter-attacking ability be brought to the fore.

This is not top level coaching. There's little wonder to why we routinely appear to be chasing our collective tails out there.

Nothing can be achieved like this in the league.

Ironically, as long as it's 0-0, and with better opposition, the counter-attacking game could take us deep into the competition, but the moment we meet sides who give us the ball, there'll be little surprise if/when we go out.

The group of players we have are capable of more than this.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Why is this thread bumped now?

 

[Paxi]

Save your eyes from it!

Oh I knew better.

 

[arnie_ni]

His subs are so bizarre

 

[buckooo1978]

so typical of this team

70+ possession this half, creating nothing

no coaching, no ideas against a low block

 

[PoTMS]

Straight from the Ole playbook

Mandatory sub on 60mins
Mandatory sub on 75mins