I think it’s only people on here saying that. They’re completely different players.
Youri Tielemans
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In what sense are they different?
He's an 8, no doubt about it.
Plays best with a ball-winner (like Kante, Ndidi etc) behind/next to him and a true number 10 in front of him.
Indeed. I think these would be my buys for midfield. Build a solid spine.
The consensus is that he's a #8 that can play as a #6, but his game suffers playing deeper.
You shouldn't just discount every game Tielemans has played at top-flight level and only count his EPL games. Menuier-Wan situation is not really comparable as Wan-Bissaka is 6 years younger and has performed for over one season at EPL level which some would argue is a level above any season Menuier has ever had. Longstaff has nothing but 42 games in the English third tier to go with his 9 games at the top tier, an amount which is less than Tielemans has. He shouldn't be in convo with Tielemans who at the same age, has played over 250 club career games at top flight and European levels, winning numerous player of the year awards and appearing in Europa team of the season to go with his 20+ caps for the top rated national team in the world. He has played enough games to determine how good he is and how good he could be. Longstaff right now would be a blind controversial punt, and nothing more.
I think Tielemans was really superb Leicester.
The reason we're even talking about Tielemans is due to those 13 games for Leicester. Because his form in the French league was poor and some even called him out for being mentally weak when the chips were down which is quite worrying in our current predicament. If he capitulates mentally at Monaco with no where near as much pressure, then what's gonna happen in the pressure cooker at Old Trafford?
Personally I saw both Longstaff and Tielemans play in the EPL and thought the Geordie was just as good, if not better from the evidence at hand playing in a relegation threatened team.
Sorry for the intrusion, but my view on the difference is that Longstaff is a playmaker in a way that Carrick was. Directing the play and tempo. I see many comparisons with Carrick when I see Longstaff.
Tielemans is more technical and quicker. More of a pass-and-move - not so much a director.
He’s also more of a threat arriving in the box and more likely to score goals.
I wouldn’t mind having them together in the middle. Think they would be a quite interesting pair.
Tielemans is more expensive because of the Belgian player premium. He'd be cheaper if he were British.
All for this transfer. Exactly the type of signing we used to make. He’s only 22 too.
Can't agree. Probably would be rated along with Rice at about £60/70m.
Tielemans + Neves + Pogba would do me fine as a starting midfield.
Rotate with Matic, Fred, McT or Longstaff and that’s a good squad of CMs.
Rotate with Matic, Fred, McT or Longstaff and that’s a good squad of CMs.
I don't think Tielemans is better technically but I do agree with the rest of your post.
Longstaff does give the vibes that he could develop into a tempo controller from deeper ala Carrick with better mobility. He could also play as a #8 which would be valuable regards tactical flexibility
By the way Petrov seems to be extremely aggressive, I wouldn't be surprised if Tielemans is either not really for sale or more expensive than he would have with Vasilyev.
Neves would be fantastic, but he'd cost about £80m. Is's not worth paying the Portuguese player premium.
Yup, pretty much. Though hasn't played that many times as the most defensive mid. You really would need some steel around him.
He has played as a 10 a lot though. Saw him in that position for Anderlecht and for Monaco sometimes. Don't like him there. He always looks a little lost. At Leicester sometimes he switches with Maddison and they look much beter when he's behind him.
For Anderlecht his best games were with Kouyate (from Palace) or Dendoncker (now at Wolves) next to him. Big strong physical midfielders that can run for miles. His best game internationally was against Russia couple of months ago, also with Dendoncker next to him. This week he played with Witsel again as the center mid pairing. He was fine, but Scotland didn't test them so hard to judge.
I did watch Longstaff a few times, but those few games weren't as good as Tielemans who I admittedly watched more. Tielemans in his few games for Leicester was one of their best players alongside the likes of Pereira, Ndidi, Maddison and I'd be all for signing the latter three.
Even if Tielemans wouldn't be a great signing, I can't think of many things that would justify spending on Longstaff apart from him being young, British and a relative unknown. He didn't really stand out more than the likes of Hayden, Ritchie or Perez and I wouldn't see many people getting behind Perez and Hayden if we're linked to them.
I always get the impression that he needs steelier players around him to flourish. Alongside Pogba I don't think it'd work, because defensively we'll be punished.
Longstaff stood out against City and Chelsea in a team that struggled all season compared to Leicester who are significantly better. Guardiola even praised Longstaff after Newsastle's win over City at St James's Park.
I think he’s well more technically gifted. Much quicker feet’s than Longstaff. Better shooting technique. Better ball control when running with the ball.
Tbf quicker feet doesn't equate to having better technique IMO. Both players have similar shooting technique too i'd say. Longstaff can strike a ball with real venom with either peg. Where I give Longstaff the edge is his ability to play as a #6 and #8 equally well and he also looks better in the defensive transition without the ball.
Would love to have Tielemans here and think he'd be great as a partner to Pogba. One of my realistic dream signings this summer tbh.
Also what the feck are people comparing longstaff and Tielemans? Longstaff might have potential and looks decent but hes nowhere close to Tielemans who has been one of the most promising midfielders in Europe for like 5 years now, and had a very good loan in the premier league with Leicester.
Also what the feck are people comparing longstaff and Tielemans? Longstaff might have potential and looks decent but hes nowhere close to Tielemans who has been one of the most promising midfielders in Europe for like 5 years now, and had a very good loan in the premier league with Leicester.
He stood out mainly for his long passing due to playing in a team as limited as Newcastle. His overall performance against Chelsea was not much better than most of his teammates who aren't the best players out there, and that was the case in the other games I watched too. I didn't see anything that impressed me to the extent of getting fully behind a potential transfer especially based on a few games. I can't say the same for Tielemans on the other hand though.
Sell Pogba and use the money to sign Tielemans, Bruno and Nevas.
Yep, they're very different players.
I watched Tielemans briefly at Anderlecht and before he left to join Monaco. Many on here wanted Dendonker who was definitely the more impressive player against us over the 2 legs and some even rated Dendocker better overall. He then went to Monaco where he struggled and was accused of being weak mentally when the going got tough. I guess you didn't watch his poor showing at Monaco?. He then came to Leicester to be part of a very good team where he did well in 13 games.
I wouldn't sign Tielemans from what I saw at Anderlecht. I sure wouldn't sign him to play for us after his mental capitulation at Monaco either. His contribution at Leicester was good in a very good team playing under Puel and then the attacking Rodgers which is a small sample size. There's question marks regarding him that i've mentioned and shouldn't be overlooked. And it's no surprise the posters who were wanting Ruben Neves after his underwhelming season at Wolves have now boarded the 'Tielmans train'.
Longstaff played in a Benitez team fighting relegation. He stood out to me with his overall play and even Guardiola praised him after Newcastle defeated City. It's easier to stand out in a better team. Take Pogba for Example, playing with France and United as one example.
I like Thomas Partey.
A competent club does that. This one will take that money and pay off the interest on those loans took out by the Glazer family to purchase the club.
Dont believe me? Look at what they did with the Ronaldo money. Remember "no value in the market" when Robben + Sneijder left Real that summer for a combined €40m (less than half of the €94m we received for CR7). Don't forget that Tevez also left during that summer with £25m (€30m) allegedly being earmarked to purchase him. So for that €124m, we spent:
€20m on Valencia
0 for Owen
€6m for Obertan.
So from €124m (Ronaldo fee + Tevez funds), we spent less than the money earmarked for replacing Tevez. What happened to the rest of that money?
Assuming that €124m = c. £100m, even with 0 value in the market, we could have bought:
Robben & Sneijder (€40m)
Benzema (€35m).
The combined total of those 3 still left enough to add Valencia while having €25m left.
After a 4 year period in which we had won:
3 League Titles
2 League Cups
1 Champions League
1 Club World Cup
While reaching an additional Champions League + FA Cup final, we were somehow going to be in the red had Ronaldo not been sold.
The Season which preceded Ronaldo's sale ended with United being an FA Cup Semi final victory away from playing literally every game possible (Barring any possible FA Cup replays as we contested the Community Shield, League Cup Final, Club World Cup tournament, Champions League final & UEFA Super Cup).
Instead of using the Ronaldo funds to strengthen a side that had a 36 year old Giggs, 34 year old Scholes, 31 year old Rio Ferdinand, we decided to do regress. The following season, Robben scored the goal which knocked us out of the Champions League qf, Leeds knocked us out of the FA Cup at Old Trafford & we lost the League by 1 point when signing quality like Sneijder could easily have helped us eke out 1 more win during a season where we suffered a lot of avoidable defeats.
Unfortunately, we are a club being run into the ground by a banker and his paymasters who leech off our club.
Yes he had Ndidi behind him and Maddison slightly in front of him at Leicester & it suited him perfectly. He is not overly responsible defensively but can be counted on to chip in a few goals & loves to supply long balls to Vardy type forwards.
You are getting too sucked into Tieleman's time at Monaco. He wasn't very good but I'd take his performances there with a grain of salt. Modric was voted as the worst La Liga signing at one point too. Tielemans has had a career before and after Monaco. He was rated very highly at Anderlecht, and has numerous awards to back it up, even performing very well at international and European levels. Dendoncker is older and I don't think he's ever been rated as high as Tielemans. That Tielemans after his time at Monaco looked really good in a team that had the likes of Ndidi, Maddison, Pereira, Vardy and Chilwell should surely be seen as a positive. He's shown that he is able to perform next to very good players in a team that seeks to play football in a way fitting for a top side.
Longstaff as I said stood out for being a bit different in a side as limited as Newcastle. He's got some distinct skills in his locker but I don't think his overall performances was much better than that of Hayden who was very impressive next to him, or Ritchie who excelled at wing-back and was arguably their best player this season, or Clark and Lascelles who were impressive at the back, or Rondon and Perez who were very vital in Newcastle's play, or Almiron who added some spark to what was a dull team. All these players are not players that are worthy of spending on. Guardiola did praise Newcastle's midfield, but that midfield included an impressive Hayden too. We've had a lot of these players who looked good in limited teams but didn't when they moved to bigger clubs. Pogba on another hand is quality and comfortably stands out even in our team.
Maybe Tielemans is indeed mentally week and wouldn't be a good signing, but if you wouldn't sign him based on his time at Anderlecht or his performances for Belgium, why then do you think 9 games in the EPL and 42 games in the third tier is enough to justify spending on Longstaff when Tielemans had arguably an even more impressive 13 EPL games?
As in a Nani/Anderson type prospect? Or do you have someone else in mind?
Not sure why this depends on Pogba. We can still field Youri, Pogba & Bruno in the same XI.
If he’s part of the Ole plan then stop wasting time and get him. With Spurs seems to prefer Celso, we are basically on top of the food chain in getting him above Leicester.
Tielemans —- McT—- Pogba
——————Bruno —————
——-——--ST—-ST——-——-
If he’s part of the Ole plan then stop wasting time and get him. With Spurs seems to prefer Celso, we are basically on top of the food chain in getting him above Leicester.
Tielemans —- McT—- Pogba
——————Bruno —————
——-——--ST—-ST——-——-
@Adnan
I was only disagreeing as to the hype and reputation of Tielemans versus Longstaff.
To be totally honest and probably somewhat controversial, I think Pereira could end up being a more useful player for us than Tielemans if given the opportunity. He has many of the same attributes and much better workrate.
I was only disagreeing as to the hype and reputation of Tielemans versus Longstaff.
To be totally honest and probably somewhat controversial, I think Pereira could end up being a more useful player for us than Tielemans if given the opportunity. He has many of the same attributes and much better workrate.
Why can’t we just go in and sign him. For the price quoted, it seems a no brainier instead we are trying to have a bidding war for Rabiot who clearly is using United for a better deal with a CL club.
Not sure how do you know Pereira has much better workrate. Youri at Leicester is what people were hoping on Pereira to become for the start of his career but Pereira never reach to that level. Valencia never interested to even play him in midfield 2, last season he didn’t show anything to be deserved a chance in here. I think it’s fair to say we need to be ruthless on this one and move on.
Would definitely take him as Herrera replacement.
I remember arguing/discussing with you a few years back over Malcolm who was playing for Bordaeux at the time. You were quite vocal he was good enough whilst I was of the opposing view that he wouldn't amount to much.
I don't care how highly rated a player is. For me you have to show it on the pitch and Tielemans hasn't done that to live up to the hype you and others have bestowed upon him after 13 games at Leicester City. Let's be honest, we wouldn't even be discussing him right now had Leicester not brought him to the EPL. Because quite frankly his performances in the French league were poor and he was labelled by a popular French football magazine as amongst the biggest flops in the league. He left Anderlecht with many Belgian fans questioning if he really was as good as the hype suggested and the move to Monaco was thought to be right for him because no one believed he was good enough to start performing for a top club. So in esscence, his performances in the Jupiler league (which is the equivalent of league 1 in England quality wise IMO) were overblown by people who didn't watch the player on a regular basis.
His 18 months in France at Monaco can't be overlooked due to the high standard of the league and sample size. He was accused of being mentally weak after a string of poor performances and labelled amongst the worst players in the league. 13 games in a Leicester team surrounded by quality players gave him the platform to shine along with Maddison due to Ndidi doing the dirty work behind them. Both the #10 & #8 had the platform to show their talent ahead of the rest of the players you mention. You also bring up Modric as being a flop at Madrid, but he turned things around pretty quickly in Spain and also was a success in a major European league before he arrived at Madrid. So that wasn't the best example in comparison to Tielemans.
Longstaff is possibly a late bloomer but hasn't failed anywhere he's been which is a big plus. He took to the EPL like duck to water and put in some big performances, and even was praised by the best manager in the world.
Why I prefer Longstaff is due to him being better than Tielemans as the holding midfielder and he can play the #8 role too. His passing and vision look superb to me and has fantastic composure to go along with his superb work rate. It's very easy to see why the club scouts have identified him as one to sign. Vision/passing, fantastic composure, high work rate/discipline. Longstaff just ticks more boxes over Tielemans IMO.
Pogba hasn't been standing out for us, as much as he has For France. That is due to the French NT having far superior players. Playing with superior team mates brings the best out of him. Not sure how you can claim otherwise. Longstaff would be even better surrounded by better players IMO.
I'm not sure about Pereira mate but I could be wrong of course.
IIRC, I mostly argued in favour of Malcom when he was been compared to Pulisic. Because things hasn't quite turned out well for him at Barcelona does not mean it would have been the case at every club, and besides, Pulisic just got his big move after falling completely off the cliff at Dortmund, so we will see how he does.
Tielemans has at least done enough to win numerous player of the year awards, even appearing in Europa team of the season and bagging 23 caps for Belgium so it isn't only hype. I don't know what could've gone wrong at Monaco, but he was impressive at Leicester in a league of higher standard than Ligue un even though 13 games might not be enough to fully judge. His performances in EPL could be a sign of his capability to turn it around and if he wasn't good enough, he'd have stuck out as the inferior player next to the likes Ndidi and Maddison, but didn't. Performing to a high standard in this Leicester team surely should be seen as a positive, not a negative.
Tielemans wouldn't be in the convo based on his time at Monaco after Anderlecht, but he probably did enough at Leicester to get himself back in it. Longstaff on the other hand wouldn't be in the convo if he wasn't British and relatively unknown. He has 9 top flight games at the age of 22, and hasn't failed anywhere because he's not being to many places. You could put down Tielemans based on his time at Monaco whilst ignoring his Anderlecht, Belgium and Leicester careers, but what's the point when you go on to big up Longstaff who's barely done anything at Newcastle. He looked decent next to the likes of Hayden, Perez, Clark, Ritchie, Lascelles, Rondon, and performed as well as them, but that could well be his level. He didn't stand out at Newcastle as someone like Zaha does at Palace for example, and he isn't the first player that have looked decent in the midst of a relegation scrap. If he isn't good enough, then he would stick out like a sore thumb next to Leicester City players, and even worse next to Manchester United players. Even though Pogba has not performed fully to expectations, but he still stands out as the best player in our team.
You could prefer Longstaff based on his technical skills or versatility, but that shouldn't be at the extent of putting down Tielemans when Longstaff is a nobody compared to the latter.
Another who wants to come here. What's the hold up.
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