Youth and Rossi/Pique reminiscing

[Scholesy]

I am so excited about the young players we have in particular Norwood, Cleverley and Wootton, but also Morrison and many others, but I am just worried Ferguson does not give them games by continuing to drain every last drip of Giggs and Scholes, and thinking the midfield is fine.

Selling Rossi was so frustrating to see a player of this technical quality leave and I still feel Pique could have been given more games as a DM. If we had kept Pique, perhaps Evans may have been sold because Pique is better, and Pique would act as a squad player of back up CB and DM.

Ferguson must give them a proper chance, and create room for them to play. I think Giggs and Scholes retirement is coming at just about the right time.

 

[Cling Bak]

He gives chances to those who deserve it. If these youngsters are good enough, they'll play. Just the same as if O'Shea, Brown, Kuszczak and Owen are good enough, they'd play. Age isn't the factor. Same goes for Giggs and Scholes.

Pique didn't want to act as a squad player/back up, that's why he left. And whilst Barca won the treble, nobody seemed to care in 2008/09 when Johnny Evans was putting in the performances that he was. Everyone seemed to fully understand why he was able to release Pique (albeit begrudingly).

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Not the Pique thing again.

 

[Brwned]

God damn you Sir Alex for not selling Evans and not playing Pique out of position, if only you had any idea how to bring up younger players.

 

[sincher]

Yeah, Giggs and Scholes retiring will be perfect for giving Scott fecking Wootton a game.

I mean of all our kids, you pick out Wootton and Norwood?

 

[Scholesy]

Yes, Ferguson does not make mistakes, he is perhaps god.

 

[Eriku]

FFS...

Evans took his chances better than Pique, so maybe it was a matter of the better fit for the Premiership?

As for Rossi, there was nothing to be done... He fecked off right before the season started, so he wasn't gonna wait and see whether he was going to be a part of our attacking inventory that season.

Ole retired shortly after as well, despite thinking he'd be ready for the 07-08 season, so he prolly would've featured a fair bit.

Hindsight re: these players can feck off, I'm quite happy with our options and prospects atm.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Even if we win 100 trophies it will be the wrong decision.

 

[sincher]

When it comes to letting young players go, how many mistakes would you say have been made? We have let hundreds go during SAF's time.

Re. Rossi, I sort of sympathise, but I don't think he's as good as Rooney, Berbatov and Hernandez, and wouldn't want to bring him back to the club. He wanted to play consistently and rightly so, so perfectly good decision.

Re. Pique, the opportunity came to go to Barca and it was a good move all round. I'm not convinced he'd have been so good in the premier league, and would he ever have been first choice ahead of Ferdinand and Vidic? I don't think this was a mistake either.

Let's face it Scholesy, you're not very clued up about our young players, nor much else.

 

[Scholesy]

When it comes to letting young players go, how many mistakes would you say have been made? We have let hundreds go during SAF's time.

Re. Rossi, I sort of sympathise, but I don't think he's as good as Rooney, Berbatov and Hernandez, and wouldn't want to bring him back to the club. He wanted to play consistently and rightly so, so perfectly good decision.

Re. Pique, the opportunity came to go to Barca and it was a good move all round. I'm not convinced he'd have been so good in the premier league, and would he ever have been first choice ahead of Ferdinand and Vidic? I don't think this was a mistake either.

Thats a good point that mistakes have been very very few, but there has not been a batch of quality like the most present one and I can only see some being letting go too soon because Ferguson is too stubborn not to change the current first team squad. Cleverley should have been this season I feel, and Gibson sold last summer. Ferguson has also got Macheda situation wrong, because he was clearly not at all ready for the first team despite his two wonder goals.

 

[Cling Bak]

Thats a good point that mistakes have been very very few, but there has not been a batch of quality like the most present one and I can only see some being letting go too soon because Ferguson is too stubborn not to change the current first team squad. Cleverley should have been this season I feel, and Gibson sold last summer. Ferguson has also got Macheda situation wrong, because he was clearly not at all ready for the first team despite his two wonder goals.

We hear this so often. You can only judge properly when they're all between 25-28.

Richardson, Eagles, Jones, Pique, Rossi, Martin, Eckersley, Ebanks-Blake were also the best crop for years and the future, once upon a time.

 

[Cold_Boy]

Pique is a first choice defender for Barcelona which is also his boyhood club and dating Shakira.

He would have never stayed at United.

Obviously when he signed for Barca, he didnt expect to play so much but he knew he would get more or similar opportunities than at United.

He was always gonna leave.

 

[sincher]

Thats a good point that mistakes have been very very few, but there has not been a batch of quality like the most present one

This has been said many times about many groups. It was said about the Simpson/Bardsley/Pique/McShane/Shawcross/Higginbotham/D.Jones/R.Jones/Richardson/Rossi group and actually that group is mostly doing well... just not at OT. Many (most) of the current batch will end up in similar positions with other teams.

and I can only see some being letting go too soon because Ferguson is too stubborn not to change the current first team squad. Cleverley should have been this season I feel, and Gibson sold last summer. Ferguson has also got Macheda situation wrong, because he was clearly not at all ready for the first team despite his two wonder goals.

Well, Cleverley has really played wide and needs more experience - loaning him to Wigan was quite reasonable seeing as in theory we were well-stocked on the wings. I actually would quite liked to have seen him stay, especially based on his pre-season. Gibson perhaps deserved a few more chances after a decent contribution last season, but I think he'll be gone in the summer. I don't see how you can say he got the Macheda situation wrong given his contribution to the first team already. Him going out on loan makes sense to me - the boy is a top finisher - I'm not sure there's enough to the rest of his game but he is cool in front of goal for sure and that's why he's played some games for us.

 

[golden_blunder]

sigh

 

[Rado_N]

Even if we win 100 trophies it will be the wrong decision.

 

[datura]

Wootton now

 

[MPTutd]

Your excited about Norwood and Wootton?

Why? They will NEVER make it at United. Norwood is well behind Pogba, Tunnicliffe and Morrison.

 

[phelans shorts]

Norwood >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scholes.

There, I said it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, Giggs and Scholes retiring will be perfect for giving Scott fecking Wootton a game.

I mean of all our kids, you pick out Wootton and Norwood?

Of course he does. Picking less controversial names wouldn't garner him as much attention.

 

[Scholesy]

Of course he does. Picking less controversial names wouldn't garner him as much attention.

I have always rated Norwood very highly. And mentioned Wootton a few times in the last few months. I only watch reserve matches so have not seen Pogba, etc, a lot of times but I do still rate them highly.

I choose Eikrem and Macheda then, perhaps less controversial names judging by you and most people's ratings of them, however the latest update I hear is Eikrem is no longer at United, and Macheda can't even control the ball for Sampdoria.

 

[KingEric7]

I have always rated Norwood very highly. And mentioned Wootton a few times in the last few months. I only watch reserve matches so have not seen Pogba, etc, a lot of times but I do still rate them highly.
I choose Eikrem and Macheda then, perhaps less controversial names judging by you and most people's ratings of them, however the latest update I hear is Eikrem is no longer at United, and Macheda can't even control the ball for Sampdoria.

You could not possibly watch much reserve and youth football. You chat far too much shite about our youngsters.

Even here, you're talking about how you forecasted Eikrem as the next best thing, yet I distinctly remember you going on about how he wasn't all that, despite him being the exact type of player you go on about (he has a shite load of ability on the ball - far more than Norwood) all the time.

Wootton's just a completely random choice, altogether.

 

[Scholesy]

You could not possibly watch much reserve and youth football. You chat far too much shite about our youngsters.

Even here, you're talking about how you forecasted Eikrem as the next best thing, yet I distinctly remember you going on about how he wasn't all that, despite him being the exact type of player you go on about (he has a shite load of ability on the ball - far more than Norwood) all the time.

I meant I choose Eikrem and Macheda to be less controversial, and that these are more normal choices to keep Pogue Mahone less angry. I have never rated these players as highly as most do though, and if you look at their current sitatuation, well I say no more.

Norwood can do anything Eikrem can do.

 

[Ubik]

Pique had one year of his contract left, it made sense to get at least some kind of fee and let him return to his boyhood club. Rossi wanted first team action and Fergie didn't want to stand in the way, and we'd just signed Tevez.

 

[Transfer United Till I Die]

I think it's time for scholesy to just accept he gets a hard on for young boys. Any young boys. It doesnt matter what they look like.

 

[Feeky Magee]

Bit out of order Richio.

Anyway, there's not a hope in hell Pique would have stuck around to be back-up CB when he knew he could get a regular starting spot at the best team in the world. Wootton's a bit of a bizarre choice as well, if you were going to go for a youngster at CB to get a bit excited about Tom Thorpe would have been the one I'd've thought.

 

[Scholesy]

Yes, Thorpe is also one I think has a great chance although I haven't seen him as much as Wootton, so tend not to mention him as much. I really like Wootton, I think he is great on the ball, and a very solid defender. He does maybe lack speed, but the rest of his game is fantastic.

 

[sincher]

I don't like to denigrate our own players, but I think Wootton's a bit of a meathead, and I don't think he'll make it in the top division.

 

[Zen86]

At the time I remember everyone raving about Evans and how he was a better defender than Pique, oh how hindsight is wonderful.

 

[sincher]

I meant I choose Eikrem and Macheda to be less controversial, and that these are more normal choices to keep Pogue Mahone less angry. I have never rated these players as highly as most do though, and if you look at their current sitatuation, well I say no more.

Norwood can do anything Eikrem can do.

Eikrem is currently playing for Molde.

Macheda is currently playing for Sampdoria.

Norwood plays for Manchester United reserves. He did ok for Carlisle on loan.

What's your point?

 

[Scholesy]

Eikrem is currently playing for Molde.

Macheda is currently playing for Sampdoria.

Norwood plays for Manchester United reserves. He did ok for Carlisle on loan.

What's your point?

Let us wait a few years, it is unfair to judge right now when they are still young players. It took Drogba a few years before he was recognised.

 

[johnmufc]

At the time I remember everyone raving about Evans and how he was a better defender than Pique, oh how hindsight is wonderful.

Evans at the age of 20 was more impressive than Pique at the age of 20.

 

[sincher]

Let us wait a few years, it is unfair to judge right now when they are still young players. It took Drogba a few years before he was recognised.

Right, so don't say things like 'if you look at their current situation, well I say no more.'

 

[Scholesy]

Right, so don't say things like 'if you look at their current situation, well I say no more.'

Norwood is still at United, Eikrem has been sold.

Macheda is doing very poor for Sampdoria.

You think these players are doing better than Norwood.

 

[Aint gota Kalou]

It's so frustrating when Pique is brought up and used as an example of players not getting enough games when he was here. He would've left even if he was more of a regular, Barcelona are his boyhood club it's natural that he was going to leave for them eventually. The only reason his development was accelerated at Barcelona was because they had loads of other defenders injured at one point so were forced to trust Pique, and he sort of stayed in since then.

Edit: Plus it's easier said than done to give the youngsters games. With the gap of quality between the bigger and smaller teams lessening all the time there aren't really many games where you can actually risk throwing a youngster in. This is why many players like Welbeck, Cleverley and Evans have all gone on loan, it's nothing to do with them not being given enough chances.

 

[Doevle]

Even if we win 100 trophies it will be the wrong decision.

 

[sincher]

Norwood is still at United, Eikrem has been sold.

Macheda is doing very poor for Sampdoria.

You think these players are doing better than Norwood.

It's always an outside shot to make it at United. Eikrem is already a very good player and he will have a good career, so yes he is ahead of Norwood at the moment. Macheda has only played a handful of games for Sampdoria so you are being harsh there. He has had more of a chance than Norwood but has done pretty well in his career so far. He's a regular for Italy under 21 and has scored goals in big matches.

I like Norwood but I don't think there's anyone who watches our reserves regularly who would pick him out as one of the best three or four players. And picking out Wootton is even more strange.

 

[kietotheworld]

With hindsight it's easy to say we should have kept Pique, but we were coming off a season where Vidic and Ferdinand had been two of the best, if not the best two central defenders in the world, and Evans had more Premier League experience. There's nothing to learn from it though, nothing to shape our future policy, no-one could have foreseen that Ferdinand's physical condition would deteriorate so rapidly, or how much better Pique would end up than Evans, who was actually very very good in his first season.

As for the idea of playing him as a defensive midfielder, maybe with hindsight, but when we sold him, it seemed very unlikely he would get a game, with Fletcher, Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves and Anderson all players who would seem to be ahead of him the the central midfield area. I don't remember seeing him play that role anyway.

 

[SATA]

OP fancies Norwood because he can take a mean free-kick? If he's that good, he would be on the fringes in the first team already. Both Pique and Rossi wanted to leave and Fergie gave them his blessings, what's so difficult to understand that about?

And who the hell is Wootton?

 

[nimic]

What you said:

I am so excited about the young players we have in particular Norwood, Cleverley and Wootton, but also Morrison and many others, but I am just worried Ferguson does not give them games by continuing to drain every last drip of Giggs and Scholes, and thinking the midfield is fine.

Selling Rossi was so frustrating to see a player of this technical quality leave and I still feel Pique could have been given more games as a DM. If we had kept Pique, perhaps Evans may have been sold because Pique is better, and Pique would act as a squad player of back up CB and DM.

Ferguson must give them a proper chance, and create room for them to play. I think Giggs and Scholes retirement is coming at just about the right time.

What I heard:

I am so excited about the young players we have in particular Modric, Modric and Modric, but also Modric and many others, but I am just worried Modric does not give them games by continuing to drain every last drip of Modric and Modric, and thinking the midfield is fine.

Selling Modric was so frustrating to see a player of this technical quality leave and I still feel Modric could have been given more games as a DM. If we had kept Modric, perhaps Modric may have been sold because Modric is better, and Modric would act as a squad player of back up CB and DM.

Modric must give them a proper chance, and create room for them to play. I think Modric and Modric retirement is coming at just about the right time.

 

[SATA]

Oh, and Pique as a defensive midfielder when the caf has laid into Gibson to his bare bones? Pique would be absolutely clueless in that position (yes i know he played in that position for Zaragoza while on loan)