Gerrard - the most complete player in Premier League history?

Brwned said:
Doesn't stand to reason at all, it's just your opinion.

And a silly one at that, in my opinion.
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Gerrard as a midfielder was a failure starting from Houlliers final season...not an opinion. Gerrard as a midfielder was the fulcrum of every other midfield feckups that happened for both England and Liverpool. There are always tapes and video footages to refer to...Better start with Istanbul.

Popular opinions about Gerrard are just a hype created by the media and blinkered Scousers.
 
vijay said:
Gerrard as a midfielder was a failure starting from Houlliers final season...not an opinion. Gerrard as a midfielder was the fulcrum of every other midfield feckups that happened for both England and Liverpool. There are always tapes and video footages to refer to...Better start with Istanbul.

Popular opinions about Gerrard are just a hype created by the media and blinkered Scousers.
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Or opinions formed from watching matches with their own eyes, like me.
 
B9 from YAWN said:
and you people laugh at RAWK.:lol::lol::lol:
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Laugh!..Its same as my blinkered Scouse work mates rambling few years back that Owen was a £30M pound dynamite better than any one else whilst fans outside your clique said otherwise yet when he moved out you all figured out his real worth. Gerrard isn't far ahead only marginally better.
 
vijay said:
Why cant you list me those matches?

Like you alleged he was at his bestest when partnering Alonso.

Lets debate there.
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I will do, but the matches are on now.

Give me a couple of hours and I'll get back to it.
 
Brwned said:
Doesn't stand to reason at all, it's just your opinion.

And a silly one at that, in my opinion.
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Rather what is silly is that you wont admit to the blatant truth staring you in the face. You can't argue with hard evidence. There is enough overwhelming evidence that proves Gerrard is a poor central midfielder. You calling it "silly" wont make it any less true.
 
Gerrard was our best player at the Euros but rather poetically he is emblematic of everything that is wrong with English football. He runs about like a maniac, doesn't look after the ball, is always in search of the Hollywood pass and shows his best qualities from set pieces.

His pass completion rate was 75% tonight. That is seriously poor from a 'world class' midfielder.
 
I'd agree with that. The media, pundits et al have been going on and on about Gerrard, but look at the difference in class between him and Iniesta/Pirlo during this tournament...

It has been absolutely vast. The fact that Gerrard's been our best player is more a reflection of how shit we are. He's nowhere near the player he was, and I think most people are just surprised he played well at all.
 
Cole was probably our best player. He's the only one who looked like he knew what he was doing, and the least likely to feck up (in normal play).

Gerrard put 3 good crosses into the box, but otherwise wasn't great as a midfielder. That said, still probably our second best player....
 
Horribly over-rated. Dreadful today and regardless of what others might say he hasn;t had a very good tournament either.
 
He was terrible today, him and Parker have got to be one of the worst central midfield partnerships I've ever seen.
 
RK said:
Cole was probably our best player. He's the only one who looked like he knew what he was doing, and the least likely to feck up (in normal play).

Gerrard put 3 good crosses into the box, but otherwise wasn't great as a midfielder. That said, still probably our second best player....
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:lol::lol:

Finish off that wank or put your dick back in your trousers, you dumb blonde.
 
Was terrible today. For once it's good, cause I finally managed to show my old man that this 'Stevie' is terribly overrated. At least now that he's past it.

Parker was much better, which obviously doesn't say much.

There was one decent pundit in Polish studio, who said something along the lines that Gerrard has always been terrific athlete with drive, but tactically, he's naive as a baby. Today everything he did, bar penalty and literally few other things, was simply gash.
 
Tomuś said:
Was terrible today. For once it's good, cause I finally managed to show my old man that this 'Stevie' is terribly overrated. At least now that he's past it.

Parker was much better, which obviously doesn't say much.

There was one decent pundit in Polish studio, who said something along the lines that Gerrard has always been terrific athlete with drive, but tactically, he's naive as a baby. Today everything he did, bar penalty and literally few other things, was simply gash.
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Telling it like it is.
 
The problem was that England were relying on him to control games for them and dictate the play. He's too inconsistent on the ball for that, in comparison to other centre mids who are much better passer and don't put a foot wrong.

He's great for driving forward and can still be a game changer, but he needs someone else in the midfield who can sit back and control the game, the way Alonso did for him at Liverpool.
 
Cheesy said:
The problem was that England were relying on him to control games for them and dictate the play. He's too inconsistent on the ball for that, in comparison to other centre mids who are much better passer and don't put a foot wrong.

He's great for driving forward and can still be a game changer, but he needs someone else in the midfield who can sit back and control the game, the way Alonso did for him at Liverpool.
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Exactly and that man is not Scott Parker. I think that a midfield three of Carrick, Parker and Gerrard would give you a great balance, even a Carrick - Gerrard midfield two would b vastly superior to what we have seen in this tournament.
 
He's way past his peak and his career has been disrupted with injuries recently, he is nowhere near his best.

When he 24ish he was unreal, would have loved him at United.
 
I think Parker played his role well in the tournament. The thing is he needs a playmaker next to him. By playmaker I mean at least a very good player witha very good touch, technique and wide range of passing. He didn't have such player here. He has Modric at Tottenham.
 
Tomuś said:
I think Parker played his role well in the tournament. The thing is he needs a playmaker next to him. By playmaker I mean at least a very good player witha very good touch, technique and wide range of passing. He didn't have such player here. He has Modric at Tottenham.
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I thought he was appalling tonight. His job is to close down players and work hard at not giving them space, however Pirlo had all the space and time in the world. This is coming from someone who has actually defended Parker in his thread as well.
 
He wasn't responsible for closing down on Pirlo, at least not when England were waiting for Italians you should have known that. England were so deep that Parker was automatically not able to close him down. The moments when he burst forward, or actually played a decent pass said it all. One of those few who actually had balls tonight.
 
I think some of you are being a little harsh on him. He is no Pirlo but he needs someone to play that kind of role to get the best out of him. He did his job fairly well but needed someone to maintain possession alongside him as it isn't really his strength. He needs license to do what he wants but that involves placing two guys alongside him. It's unfair to criticize him for not doing a role that he isn't meant to do anyway.
 
Hodgson had options in midfield:-

Carrick
Scholes
Cleverley

He chose a returning to fit Parker (a player I actually like and had he been fit we would have been better) and Henderson (which I never, ever understood).

Change of tack needed for England's midfield

next season the likes of:-

Wilshere
Cleverley
Carrick

And introducing to the squad perhaps of
Barkley
McEachran

We'll see.
 
His positional and tactical deficiencies will mean he can never be called a complete player for me.

Said it in another thread but the only person who's managed to utilise him is Benitez who put Alonso and Mascherano behind him and gave him the freedom to perform by covering up his weaknesses. England don't have the players to do this and it consistantly shows up at international level. He did OK this tournament in terms of directly influencing the games with assists but once he came up against a team with class and quality in midfield the outcome was the same as its always been.
 
tintedsepia said:
Hodgson had options in midfield:-

Carrick
Scholes
Cleverley

He chose a returning to fit Parker (a player I actually like and had he been fit we would have been better) and Henderson (which I never, ever understood).

Change of tack needed for England's midfield

next season the likes of:-

Wilshere
Cleverley
Carrick

And introducing to the squad perhaps of
Barkley
McEachran

We'll see.
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Spot on. I wonder if Carrick accepts the call up, given he receives one. Think he will, being so unassuming and humble guy. Especially seeing as he could still go to a huge international tournament, he deserves that.
 
Was a quality player in his day, never a magical one.
Scored some cracking goals but has taken more than his fair share of attempts at them.

Never played amazing for England, maybe it's because he doesn't have all the smoke and mirrors of this 'legendary' player he has at Liverpool. Maybe I'm being too harsh.

Agree with tintedsepia with the midfield of Wilshere - Cleverley - Carrick :drool:
 
tintedsepia said:
Hodgson had options in midfield:-

Carrick
Scholes
Cleverley

He chose a returning to fit Parker (a player I actually like and had he been fit we would have been better) and Henderson (which I never, ever understood).

Change of tack needed for England's midfield

next season the likes of:-

Wilshere
Cleverley
Carrick

And introducing to the squad perhaps of
Barkley
McEachran

We'll see.
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You don't think the last two need a bit of first team action before getting the nod at international level?
 
Think he had a very good tournament, showed the kind of discipline you forget he's capable of. I agree that he needed to be in a midfield 3 against better opposition.
 
1. Pirlo is world class and the game has changed - a 3 man midfield will outperform a 2 man midfield.
2. Carrick mentioned as savior of England had Roy got it right, was actually embarrassed in Europe this season in a 2 man midfield by very mediocre midfielders in comparison to Pirlo, DeRossi or Montolivo
3. Wayne Rooney is not good enough as a play maker behind the central striker or as a central striker while playing for England. The challenge that every manager faces while naming his team sheet - to leave midfield short of support or to leave out a talented player & be crucified by the media. It would have been best for England for him to have been banned for 5 games at the start of the tournament rather than 2.
 
He looked a bit knackered today... which is understandable as he's getting on a bit now and had missed a fair bit of the season anyway. Still it was a good tournament for him... especially considering he was playing next to the very limited Scott Parker.
 
adexkola said:
You'd think he was a pub player reading the Caf.
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Well it's all relative. Even if you out and out call a prem player shit they can obviously still play football better than most. Like someone else on here said, I don't think he's ever been one of the top top players, but best of the rest is a reasonable shout.
 
He's just about past it now. Could see he was struggling with the pace of the game after 60 minutes and England had to keep him on the pitch for his set-pieces. Let's see if he has the brains to re-invent his game like Scholes and Giggs did into their 30s
 
SATA said:
He's just about past it now. Could see he was struggling with the pace of the game after 60 minutes and England had to keep him on the pitch for his set-pieces. Let's see if he has the brains to re-invent his game like Scholes and Giggs did into their 30s
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To be honest, I thought he showed signs of this through the Euros. He certainly has the technical ability to grow into a Pirlo/Scholes role and remain a great player for the next 4 or 5 years. For me, these 4 games gave the first indication he has the mental discipline necessary. It won't happen overnight and there will be growing pains, but I think he can and will do it.
 
I don't think he has the discipline and the football brain. It will be hard to move away from the bombarding marauding style that he's used to.

Scholes was always a smart little player with an eye for a finish when close to goal. Gerrard's game was all about power, mobility and dynamism. When that goes.. You're not left with much.
 
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