Yes. See #6192 above.
Robin van Persie
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Ahh, it seems so annoying that our best formation may well without Kagawa going through the middle if this transfer goes through, but I suppose it's not like our players positions will be set in stone.
Only thing is, from what I saw of Kagawa for Dortmund, he didn't look that great on the wings. Think I'd rather see Rooney on the left and Kagawa through the middle.
Only thing is, from what I saw of Kagawa for Dortmund, he didn't look that great on the wings. Think I'd rather see Rooney on the left and Kagawa through the middle.
Wasn't Sneijder more of an issue with wages as opposed to agreeing a fee with the selling club. This scenario seems to be the other way round.
so what????
what is everybodies big issue with giving people game time???? players earn their place based on ability and performance.
we havent had serious competition for places for a couple of seasons and its why we dont kill teams off. we are happy enough to beat a team 1-0 at old trafford because the majority of the startiong 11 will know that they'll be playing the following game.
lets look at this scenario, rooney and welbeck start the season as RVP and kagawa are settling in and hernandez has fallen behind welbeck. if we go 1-0 against everton next monday rooney and welbeck wont be to sit back and accept that. they'l be looking at RVP, Kagawa and Hernandez on the bench and they'l want to put 3 or 4 past them to make sure that they start the next game. equally if it is 1-0 after an hour and fergi puts on RVP and hernandez then they'l be trying to show in that 30 mins that they should start the next game.
in terms of minutes on the pitch its definatley a case of qaulity of qaunitity for both the player and the club.
if welbeck cant dislodge rooney, rvp, kagawa, hernandez from the team and is restricted to league cup football. tough shit. he'l get the chance if he doesnt take it then he doesnt play. its happened to players in the past and will happen to players in the future. rooney isnt exempt from that either. fergie himself criticised his complacency openly last year.
the players cant afford complecency next year or they wont start. the club cant afford complacency as we NEED to win the league back.
with RVP in the team / squad we have a far better chance of doing so. if that restricts welbeck/hernandez to 25 games, and means that rooney isnt first choice to start and finish every single game, then tough.
a common phrase used in football is "no man is bigger than the club" yet so many seem to think danny welbeck should be untouchable, given the chance to start regardless of form so that he develops. the same people are crying out for a midfielder. what about cleverley and andersons chance to develop?
Exactly.
Fergie's remit is to improve the squad and win trophies, not to indulge individuals.
Fergie's remit is to improve the squad and win trophies, not to indulge individuals.
Think those 3 will interchange behind RVP myself. They all have the capacity to play out wide or centrally, so it would seem a bit of a waste to cement them to one specific position. They will all do the most damage imo, when they are given licence to move around to find space. With that in mind i think we could expect a more Barca style fluidity to our play this season but only within certain systems of course.
4-4-2 will not provide many surprises, but it is still very effective against some teams simply due to the quality of our players. So i find it difficult to see why we would abandon it altogether.
I mean that these 'sources' keep saying that it's close to done and it's likely to happen each day but it doesn't.
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
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Bebe
Barcelona and RM shaketh with fear.
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
RVP
Bebe
Barcelona and RM shaketh with fear.
You can fozzie the future.
True, hope this is what happens. Despite this tossing and turning over whether it'd put such and such a player in an unnatural position, Kagawa, Rooney, Nani and Van Persie is second only to Barcelona as far as an attacking threat goes (surely as strong on paper as City/Madrid). It's an absolutely mental set of players, and it's not exactly inconceivable that Rooney, Kagawa and Nani may still improve.
Amazed how many people leave Valencia out of our strongest 11 - he's been one of our most consistent players for the last couple of seasons.
He doesn't need me to tell him this but he has a responsibility to be true to the Manchester United philosophy of bringing through academy players and playing attractive football, there's more to his job than just winning trophies at all costs.
He's done that.
In terms of competition for places though, he doesn't owe anyone anything.
Welbeck is no where near his peak, he has a good decade, probably more, of top flight football in him and 4 or 5 years until he peaks.
Having Vsn Persie here to take pressure for goals off him will do his development no harm, nor will having two world class strikers to learn from. In 3 or 4 years when Van Persie is slowing down, that's when Welbeck will be stepping up.
We never bid for Sneijder either. There was interest, but nothing compared to this. I don't really know how the 2 scenarios can be seen as comparable really.
We have actually bid for RVP and our interest has been confirmed by both parties. Nothing like the Sneijder situation unless we are comparing the opotnetial wages, which would still be speculative as we don't know what RVP is asking as yet.
RVP being signed won't hamper either of those things.
It's amazing, isn't it? He is grossly unrecognized by almost every non Manchester United fan I converse with, it's almost as if he's just so devestatingly good at the simplistic old school wing play he excels in, that people decide his lack of attempts at Hazard-esque back heels deem him a lesser player. Valencia >> Hazard easily for me.
But this is going off topic ... Sign RVP!
Most of 1 season don't you mean, he missed pretty much all of the 10-11 one.
yep, I for one think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we failed to land Lucas and Hazard more recently, and players like Sneijder before, and signing RvP would just be a good way to shut up all the people complaining at our lack of star signings.
Which is a bad idea, because you should never buy just for the sake of buying, and for christ sake we're obviously in need of cover for the LB position and we need a CM we can count on who doesn't have 5-10 issues we need to worry about, but no why not just buy a striker instead.
09-10 - Was one of the main factors in Rooney's goalscoring
10-11 - Injured, but came back around march-april and got himself in the CL final starting lineup with great performances
11-12 - Best winger in the league that season
So yeah.
You should've read it in context; we were talking about what we would get away with against the bottom 10 PL teams, especially at home; that's 10 games. Also, we could do that against the bottom couple @ their homes as well. That's around 15 matches; plus a few CL group ones at home if we really wanted to scare em!That formation would put way too much pressure on Carrick. He's going to have a tough season cleaning up after everyone
He's not buying for the sake of buying.
Kagawa plays on the left for Japan, and Nani seems to prefer playing on the right (But can't when Valencia plays because Valencia is much poorer on his left foot than Nani is). So swap em around and we've got something special!
Kagawa, Nani, Rooney and RvP are probably our best attacking 4, followed closely by Valencia. I don't see the need to shoehorn in a 21 year old into a position (regularly) that he's not great at.
Any combination of 4 out of: Rooney, Nani, Valencia, Kagawa and RvP is lethal, imo. One of the best in the world, any of them.
I've no doubt in my mind about how talented a player RvP is, to me it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense buying him, and it seems a bit forced upon since so many fans are crying out for star signings.
And please don't take any offense at this but I've heard every reason why we should sign RvP atleast a dozen times and I'd still rather we go for another player.
They let any old muppet in here.
If we have Rooney and RvP playing in a 442, Valencia will be competing with probably Kagawa and Nani (and Young) for 2 wing spots. If we go for a lopsided 4231 with 1 of Rooney/RvP on the left, and the other central, with Kagawa behind the striker, then he'll be competing with Nani on the right. The only way we'll fit all 5 is a 4132 formation, and that'd be for around 10-15 games maximum; i.e. all the bottom 10 EPL teams at home, and a couple of the bottom teams away.
It'll all be based on form; but considering them to all be on 'normal' form, the majority of people will have Nani ahead of Valencia, and both ahead of Young. However, Young can get ahead of either if he's playing very well, or they need a break etc.
He'll get plenty and plenty of games though; if one of those players doesn't start, he'll be first choice to replace them, no matter our formation. Nani is also far superior when the winger is required to come slightly more central (not hugging the touchline i.e. a RAM instead of a RW) as his touch, passing range, vision and overall play is superior when making the cuter 1-2's and quick interplay; although IMO Valencia's ability in this is severely underrated; he's regularly getting some very good 1-2's with his fullback / the one he gave to Nani against Hannover which Nani chipped and missed the target completely (despite getting it over the goalie and back down under the bar... if it was 3 metres to the right!) was one of the best passes of our preseason, as well as the one when he robbed Arshavin and gave it to Welbeck etc etc.
That's the quality thing about strength in depth; one day he can be the best winger in the EPL (and world according to Guardiola!) and the next he can not be in a 'fantasy' 11.
It'll keep Nani on his toes, Kagawa on his, and even Rooney and RvP on theirs. Great for us!
You think Fergie wants to sign RvP to shut up all the people complaining at our lack of star signings?
What player?
That was bad enough to have been one of mine!
If the amount of bitching on here is an accurate representation of the average United fan then it's entirely possible.
RVP is a world class striker and performer. I understand if many of us have issues with this signing because we most likely won't sign a CM, but I also don't think one depends on another... Fergie simply seems to think we won't need a central midfielder, and if a player of Van Persie's quality is getable, we better try to get him. Our options will be unreal... I can't for my life understand why people worry about the progress of Welbeck, Fergie will rotate all the time!
As for our strongest XI, I don't think we will have something like that. You basically can't fit Rooney, RVP, Kagawa, Nani, Valencia & Welbeck in one team, so form and injuries/fatigue will always play a part... as usual.
As for our strongest XI, I don't think we will have something like that. You basically can't fit Rooney, RVP, Kagawa, Nani, Valencia & Welbeck in one team, so form and injuries/fatigue will always play a part... as usual.
yeah, but why a striker? Most people are bitching about fullback or midfield...
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We know that Sir Alex knows midfield needs to be addressed. I think though he's comfortable with Petrucci etc. I don't think he's thinking he'll play them outside the cup/s. I think he probably is content with: Carrick, Scholes, Anderson, Giggs, Cleverly, Kagawa (as an option), with jones always a possibility.
Fullback? Well he's talked about Brady and we've already seen Valencia as full back on occasion. Evans and smalling can do a job. He's played a lot of youth at full back this pre season. Michael Keanes played all over defence.
Holland boss Louis van Gaal has revealed he has spoken with Robin van Persie over where his club future lies but insists the decision ultimately comes down to the sought-after striker.
Speculation continues to surround the Arsenal captain, who is being heavily linked with both Manchester clubs this summer following his revelation he does not intend to sign a new contract at Emirates Stadium.
The 29-year-old has been dropped from Van Gaal's starting line-up for Holland's international friendly with Belgium on Wednesday night and the coach is keen to see him settle his future ahead of the Oranje's impending World Cup qualifiers.
But the experienced coach knows only Van Persie, who scored 30 league goals last season, can decide where his future lies.
Advice
Van Gaal told a press conference aired on Sky Sports: "I think the player always has to decide for himself.
"When he wants he can ask me for advice but then I'll speak to him, not to you."
He added: "I had the conversation and it was unbelievable. A great and high level, not only at a human side but also in the football vision. It was one of the best meetings I've had with an individual player."
Asked whether it was important, with next month's qualifiers against Turkey and Hungary looming, that Van Persie decided his future sooner rather than later, the former Barcelona boss added: "Yes, of course. But it's for the English clubs, and Arsenal of course, to decide."
Speculation continues to surround the Arsenal captain, who is being heavily linked with both Manchester clubs this summer following his revelation he does not intend to sign a new contract at Emirates Stadium.
The 29-year-old has been dropped from Van Gaal's starting line-up for Holland's international friendly with Belgium on Wednesday night and the coach is keen to see him settle his future ahead of the Oranje's impending World Cup qualifiers.
But the experienced coach knows only Van Persie, who scored 30 league goals last season, can decide where his future lies.
Advice
Van Gaal told a press conference aired on Sky Sports: "I think the player always has to decide for himself.
"When he wants he can ask me for advice but then I'll speak to him, not to you."
He added: "I had the conversation and it was unbelievable. A great and high level, not only at a human side but also in the football vision. It was one of the best meetings I've had with an individual player."
Asked whether it was important, with next month's qualifiers against Turkey and Hungary looming, that Van Persie decided his future sooner rather than later, the former Barcelona boss added: "Yes, of course. But it's for the English clubs, and Arsenal of course, to decide."
I don't know if this has already been mentioned (probably has), but a few years ago, SAF was asked a question; if he could sign any player in the world, who would it be? And his answer was Robin van Persie.
I don't think possible formations or appeasing transfer-hungry fans, is on his mind in any way with this transfer. He just always wanted this player and now has a clear chance to get him.
I don't think possible formations or appeasing transfer-hungry fans, is on his mind in any way with this transfer. He just always wanted this player and now has a clear chance to get him.
Or can't secure the ones he's interested in.
I agree with all of it.With or without RVP, a big club will always have players' who aren't totally satisfied with their playing time.Satisfying everyone is impossible.
The right balance must be found between bringing experienced and young players together and more than anybody else I trust SAF to be able to manage the squad overall (and not just make some individuals happy) very well.
This is blatantly just an opportunity signing, the chance to get Van Persie has come up so we're going for him. I seriously doubt we'd go for a striker with his profile otherwise.
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