Yeah.Even if he's far from his best Valencia can at least make the effort and show that he "cares". If you're having a terrible match it's the least you can do
Luis Nani | 2012/13 Performances
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We might not have a choice though considering his contract is soon to expire.
Low on confidence. That penalty miss, and getting hauled off at half-time today, won't help.
Spot on. His equally terrible general play on Wednesday was masked by those few good passes, today against tighter defence he was useless. Horror stuff. Surely he should have learned by now how to play a simple 5-yards pass to his unmarked partner and while being unmarked.
Class wins tight games but if you're unable to show it, at least don't feck up every single pass you make. That's were Valencia has huge advantage over Nani.
Anyway, apparently we all have an agenda towards him. Big season for him, needs to sort it out cause he's easily good enough for any club.
That's interesting, seeing as his pass completion ratio on Wednesday was 80%, and he made more passes than anyone bar Carrick that night, and set up basically every effort we had on goal bar the actual goal.
I'd say agenda is the wrong word, it just seems that people are so masked by their frustrations of him that they can't actually see how good he's been, and just think that he's automatically being frustrating or erratic. You calling out his "terrible play" in that game being a perfect example.
feck me Nani was shit today. Good grief. That said, it doesn't help when you pick the ball up and the only player making any effort to show for the ball is Kagawa who's having a poor game himself.
They're treated differently. Look at the last match, where Nani was much better...
Valencia: At least he's trying!
Nani: Oh feck off, stop making mistakes!
Something to get used to for the rest of their careers with us.
See what you mean, but believe me, I'm not biased or anything. Can be his biggest fan and critic, depending on how he fares. Atm he's almost impossibly shite but I will be the first person to praise him when he sorts it out.
That's fair enough. I thought he was absolutely shit today, and was happy when he was taken off. No reservations or excuses.
It's not about trying but about being able to do the very basic stuff you simply have to do. Look at his performance today, he couldn't pass the bloody ball to save his life!
But you slated him the other day too when he played well, and that's what confuses myself.
No argument today, 65% pass accuracy, fecking awful. For the record, Valencia was at 77%, not brilliant either. And fortunately for him he got to play an entire half against 10 men.
I understand that stats sort of proved me wrong the other day but I state what I see. Both him and Valencia weren't on fire today but for me the difference between an off-colour Nani and Valencia is huge. That's my opinion and it's not this 'agenda' bollocks.
Actually I think that I state my opinion and that you are a little blinkered.
Nani the other day, good.
Nani today, shite.
Had you actually given an honest appraisal of a game in which Nani had decent passing stats and provided 3 or 4 excellent chances for his team-mates then I'd trust your opinion every time, but when you claimed Nani was awful the other night, well I don't know how to take your opinion from now on. Today was AWFUL. I don't defend players from criticism when they deserve it you see.
Had you posted this today:
"Shambles, absolute shambles. He wasn't his usual erratic self, that was diabolical"
I'd simply agree and be on my way. If you don't have an "agenda", then quite way your saw fit to post that the other night I don't know, and will never understand.
You're obviously doing something wrong, because nobody who understands football should be of the opinion that he was "terrible" on Wednesday, quite frankly.
Was a huge show of faith by Fergie to play him today, that faith wasn't shown to be justified
I wouldn't say Nani against Galatasaary was "terrible", but he definetly wasn't good. I thought he constantly losed the ball, and slowed down our play which is ridiculous considering he's one of our most creative and quickest players.
I expect he'll be dropped for the next PL game (and the COC game) if Fergie continues the "mistake = your dropped" routine at the moment.
I expect he'll be dropped for the next PL game (and the COC game) if Fergie continues the "mistake = your dropped" routine at the moment.
Very very rare that SAF replaces players at half time but with Nani he had no choice, he was awful. The fact he either does not start or is replaced speaks volumes about his general play. All managers talk about consistency for a reason, unfortunately Nani does not have any as he is either brilliant or shite.
Ashley Young played 10 hours less football than Nani last season yet scored two goals less and only one less assist. Thats 25% less game time than Nani yet Young is never talked about in the same category as Nani because somehow Nani, on his day, is world class, well he's not. He is a mercurial but inconsistent winger that scored the same amount of goals as Scott Sinclair last season.
Ashley Young played 10 hours less football than Nani last season yet scored two goals less and only one less assist. Thats 25% less game time than Nani yet Young is never talked about in the same category as Nani because somehow Nani, on his day, is world class, well he's not. He is a mercurial but inconsistent winger that scored the same amount of goals as Scott Sinclair last season.
I'm suprised at that. Either Nani had a poor season, which I don't think he did really, or Young is simply getting unfair treatment from us fans at times. I'm guilty of the latter I must admit 
Well if you're compaing him to Young than last year we all accept he didn't have the greatest season on the back of his previous 18 months or so. As for comparing his goal scoring it was still better than anyone else in our midfield and probably as good as other players who play in a 442 like him such as Bale. Sinclair played a more attacking role and was Swansea's penalty taker.
He's not had a great start to the season but very few of our players can claim to have had even a good start to the season and I think in some ways Nani is baring the brunt of people's frustrations at the team as a whole.
No he isn't and he is either not playing or being subbed for a reason.
I proved this completely wrong the other day by showing that he created 3-4 excellent chances for his teammates and had a pass completion percentage rate in the eighties.
If that's not "good" for a winger, I shudder to think at what we'd say about our boys today.
Nani was terrible vs Liverpool, nuff said... Was rightly substituted and Scholes made our game look a lot better, playing against 10 people helps but Nani was giving the ball away with practically every touch he made, made Sterling look world class in comparison.
Valencia hardly got the ball today, not worth comparing in this match, our players couldn't find the wide players and we were shite today.
Move on to the next match.
Valencia hardly got the ball today, not worth comparing in this match, our players couldn't find the wide players and we were shite today.
Move on to the next match.
I think he is somewhat, it's not completely that obviously and as I've said before the substitution made sense with Liverpool going down to 10 men Scholes could come on and influence without being pressed and someone had to make way and Valencia gives better cover and Giggs started for his experience and as we've seen in the past Fergie will overlook poor displays from him for his experience at times.
A player as talented as Nani should never play as poorly as that. Both our supposedly world class wingers were outshone today by a 17 year old.
hmmmm... Sterling's pass accuracy was an awful 67%.
Agreed about Nani though, he should never be that off his game.
I thought he had a good game midweek, but today he was awful. Simple as.
Still a bit surprised that Fergie stuck with Giggs and took him off. Vs 10 men he could have had a lot of joy down the flank in the second half. He tracks back as well as Giggs too.
Still a bit surprised that Fergie stuck with Giggs and took him off. Vs 10 men he could have had a lot of joy down the flank in the second half. He tracks back as well as Giggs too.
He didn't though, can't you read? He had 80% pass completion, more touches than any other player and more passes than any other player (bar Carrick). There's no way you can justify saying that if you actually watched the match. He had a poor penalty and a few erratic shots but that was basically it!
Of course he's not, because he's not remotely as good, you look back on this thread and you can see people constantly calling Nani world class as a player when he is at his very best, which unfortunately hasn't been an awful lot in the last six months. Nani at his best is on an entirely different level to Young and you only have to compare their best games for us in order to see that.
Valencia was voted our player of the season yet his stats were pretty much equal to both Nani and Young too, you can't judge how good a footballer is based purely on stats alone.
The Sinclair thing is daft seeing as Nani was our third highest goalscorer last year despite not actually playing that much, you can't just pick a random winger from another team who had a good season and use that as a comparison.
Exhibit A.
Nani was awful, rubbish, dreadful (which he was), but Valencia (who was almost as bad in the first half) just "didn't get the ball enough". Mental.
Posts that show that people are blinded by <insert whatever here> for Nani.
Nani was wonderful in 2010, the calendar year. And retained some of that form into the first 2-3 months of 2011.
Since then he had some patches of good form but he's been mostly underwhelming. He has a much higher potential "top level" than Valencia but he reaches it very, very rarely. This season he only played well in the second half against Galatasaray. Poor apart from that. Yesterday he was beyond awful.
It's kinda frustrating, he's supposed to be our best winger imho but he just doesn't perform up to his potential. Valencia - who was poor at Anfield, penalty aside - and Young are limited players compared to him but somewhat more reliable at least.
Since then he had some patches of good form but he's been mostly underwhelming. He has a much higher potential "top level" than Valencia but he reaches it very, very rarely. This season he only played well in the second half against Galatasaray. Poor apart from that. Yesterday he was beyond awful.
It's kinda frustrating, he's supposed to be our best winger imho but he just doesn't perform up to his potential. Valencia - who was poor at Anfield, penalty aside - and Young are limited players compared to him but somewhat more reliable at least.
Young is really inconsistent, in no way 'reliable', but he's a good winger on form for sure. Valencia however is generally very consistent in matches which is why you could argue that he's a more important winger for the team than Nani is (in the last 9 months at least) cause you know what you'll get at least.
Saying that, he's had a pretty timid start to the season too but he's not getting any stick for it.
Saying that, he's had a pretty timid start to the season too but he's not getting any stick for it.
What did Fergie say about Tévez? Fans love a trier? There you go, that's why Valencia's not getting stick. Also, he's an old-fashioned winger and United (and British) fans love that.
Young isn't reliable, he's just more reliable than Nani. The Sahara isn't cold (well it is at night but you know what I mean), it's just colder than the sun.
Young isn't reliable, he's just more reliable than Nani. The Sahara isn't cold (well it is at night but you know what I mean), it's just colder than the sun.
He's not remotely more reliable, he's safer because he doesn't have the talent that Nani does, that's all.
The "trier" thing is getting dumb, Nani does try, he wouldn't play for us if he didn't, he's just not defensively as good as Valencia or as physical so it doesn't look like he's putting in the shift at times.
The "trier" thing is getting dumb, Nani does try, he wouldn't play for us if he didn't, he's just not defensively as good as Valencia or as physical so it doesn't look like he's putting in the shift at times.
What do you mean? He's safer because he isnt as good?
Nani isn't a loveable player to many I guess.
I love him though, he's up there with the best wingers in the world. His style of play is prone to making the wrong decision or fecking it up because he doesn't play the 'safe' option because he would't be the player he is if he did that.
Yes he's annoying, yes he's in bad form but he's still a very very good footballer. I've given trying to convince people he isn't shit, if they're too blind to see that then so be it.
Let's not forget he's far from the only one who's off to a slow start.
I'm sure he'll improve as the season goes on and we gain confidence.
I'm sure he'll improve as the season goes on and we gain confidence.
As in, he'll do the safe thing and play the ball backwards or to his team mate because he doesn't have the ability to beat his man or do something special to the extent Nani does, and Nani generally looks to do these things a lot more and hence can look frustrating as feck when they're not coming off for him, which has unfortunately been the case of late.
I think it's why Valencia is probably more prefered and less hated on here really, because he's limited but generally does the sensible or safe thing as a player and is very consistent throughout matches as a result.
I don't think there's any debate in that Valencia plays safe much more than Nani.
I've said it before with the 2 of them, some people will get frustrated with Nani because he tries stuff that doesn't come off, but I personally get more frustrated when Valencia has those games in which he tries nothing and just plays safe safe safe.
It's all personal preference.
Fair enough. I guess so. Young does try and do the fancy stuff a lot too though, I dont think of him as being much safer - by any significant order of magnitude anyway. Not like Valencia.
Ah sorry I thought we were talking about Young, that was why I missed the point at first.
Hang on: just read back and we were talking about Young.
Ah ok, I missed that totally. whoooooosh!
Sorry. I just read this and as Val was mentioned I gussed that was who you's were talking about...
Simon "What do you mean? He's safer because he isnt as good?"
Cina "As in, he'll do the safe thing and play the ball backwards or to his team mate because he doesn't have the ability to beat his man or do something special to the extent Nani does, and Nani generally looks to do these things a lot more and hence can look frustrating as feck when they're not coming off for him, which has unfortunately been the case of late.
I think it's why Valencia is probably more prefered and less hated on here really"
I was talking about Young. Don't mind him.
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