But that is exactly my point. What criticism they do or don't receive is entirely down to perception and the general perception is that Valencia tries harder.
Luis Nani | 2012/13 Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Are you kidding me?
Young is THE safe winger, even more so than Valencia. He will normally try to pull the ball back on his right foot and hook it in, 9 times out of 10. Other than that, he'll try and keep possession, and when in good shooting territory he'll let one fly.
He basically plays by the book all the time, choosing the safe option most of the time. He'll very rarely try and get past his full back, despite being quite quick.
That's not your point at all, you said yourself that Valencia tries harder. Not that general perception is that he does.
Is that safer or just less mental? You have to know when to try and beat your man. Look at all really great players, they can stand foot on the ball and then decide what to do. That's what makes them great, the ability to make a decision. I'm going to mention Barca much to my own annoyance, but they are players of Nani's technical abilty and none of them are 'unsafe' because of their ability. Thier ability to know when to release the football, even sideways is what makes them great.
The Valencia sentence was separate to the above (which was about Young), just probably not made clear enough.
I do think perception plays a huge part. Nani is just a flash bastard and people are more likely to overplay his flaws.
You could look at it in that way, but personally I feel that if you have the ability in you, you should use it when you can, especially in a team like ours who is so reliant on our wingers being able to beat their man and ping it into the box. If Nani played the safe option all the time he'd be totally limiting his play.
I'm not denying that he makes the wrong decision at times, of course he does, but when he's playing well I take them with a pinch of salt because he pulls off such great things at times despite me thinking "there's no way he can do anything here". Unfortunately he hasn't been playing well and he's been fecking up stuff he usually wouldn't therefore he's just been poor.
The thing with wingers though, especially in a team like ours, when we have those days against a tough back-line, we need something special, and in these games (like yesterday) Valencia is often likely to do nothing apart from play safe, my personal preference in these situations is for a Robben, Ronaldo, Nani, Sanchez etc, someone who'll try something different to break the team down.
And therein lies the reason this thread is so long, we all have a slightly different take on aspects of the game. And it's also why it's the greatest game there is.
Yeah, but I disagree on Valencia. I think that regardless of how he's playing if your midfield can get him isolated against his full back he'll get around him.
Also I would personally put the consistency of Robben and especially Ronaldo ahead of Nani. I also seem to only catch Sanchez when he's not in great form.
I think the best players are those who has a feel of the climate in a match. That greater understanding that would have led Nani yesterday, for instance, to try and keep possession better instead of waste it trying difficult passes. Because that's what we needed in the match, a foothold, someone who could keep the ball and calm us down.
Nani has the ability to be our outlet in matches like this, he's very hard to get the ball off and he's got the technical ability to get us out of a tight spot, but he lacks the footballing brain to do so.
The best is obviously to strike a balance between trying audacious stuff, and keeping it simple. This is a hard thing to do though, even for experienced central midfielders like Carrick whose job this is in every match.
Nani is at his best when we're on the front foot and he doesn't have to think about how his actions will affect the flow of the match. He probably is a bit too flash in matches like Liverpool away, when not on top of his game.
I would probably say Valencia's got the balance better, but he could do with a bit of arrogance and belief in his own ability as well to be even better. Him trying the audacious a bit more often would actually be a good thing.
Nani has the ability to be our outlet in matches like this, he's very hard to get the ball off and he's got the technical ability to get us out of a tight spot, but he lacks the footballing brain to do so.
The best is obviously to strike a balance between trying audacious stuff, and keeping it simple. This is a hard thing to do though, even for experienced central midfielders like Carrick whose job this is in every match.
Nani is at his best when we're on the front foot and he doesn't have to think about how his actions will affect the flow of the match. He probably is a bit too flash in matches like Liverpool away, when not on top of his game.
I would probably say Valencia's got the balance better, but he could do with a bit of arrogance and belief in his own ability as well to be even better. Him trying the audacious a bit more often would actually be a good thing.
At least he isn't Gervinho. Am I right or am I right?
Possession and efficiency are the two key factors that ferguson is trying to optimise. Nani doesn't contribute at all positively to either of these factors. In fact I'd go so far as to say he is the only player in the first team squad that doesn't, certainly the only one that is trying to demand a bumper salary...
He was horrible yesterday...absolutely terrible.
He wasn't the only one mind...
He wasn't the only one mind...
So why single him out?
He was the worst, tbf. I am Nani's biggest fan (slight exaggeration) but some of his performances this season have left me thinking 'have I been blind all this time?'.
Because he was the wort of the worst...Oh and cause this is a Nani thread.
Have you seen the thread title?
I said that fans love a trier and that's why Valencia's getting less stick.
I never actually said that he does try harder. I meant to imply that fans view him as a trier, a hard worker, unlike the more "flashy" Nani.
There's another reason as well. With Valencia, you more or less know that he's going to try to beat his man and whip a cross in. It either works or it doesn't but it's easy to... understand what he does and why. With Nani, you often get the "wtf" feeling, as in "what the hell was he even trying to accomplish there?" because he takes more risks and tries things that wouldn't occur to many of us. His success rate, however, is rather low these days, unfortunately.
He was by far the worst...which is why he was off at HT...oh...and what Moses said.
Why do you post in here, by the way? It's nothing but negative nonsense about him, you haven't said anything positive since 2010 about him.
(this one is from a thread wishing him happy birthday)
I don't think he was horrible especially considering he was involved when we had possession unlike several others. Rather we have players that at least try make an impact instead of plain disappearing.
He did nothing but give the ball away...the ball out wide to Valencia where he found Johnson was exactly an indicator of it.
Fergie obviously felt he was poor.
Fergie obviously felt he was poor.
Nani was abysmal vs Liverpool. I'm one of his most ardent defenders most of the time, but even I thought he was rubbish. That said, I think he'll be back. He was often isolated up front, and he isn't the best at defending, but in truth few wingers are.
To me he seems to have lost his way a bit, doesn't look at all motivated. I think Fergie needs to give him the hairdryer or let him know one way or another if it carries on he is out. He doesn't even look like he's trying half of the time and seems utterly unfocused. That sort of attitude wont help him improve or remain at United for much longer.
I think against Liverpool it would have been totally warranted to take him off in the first half hour, would have sent him a good message that.
Regarding Nani being singled out.. he is singled out because many feel he has the potential to be so much better - one of the best in the team, at least he seemed to before his attitude changed.
I think against Liverpool it would have been totally warranted to take him off in the first half hour, would have sent him a good message that.
Regarding Nani being singled out.. he is singled out because many feel he has the potential to be so much better - one of the best in the team, at least he seemed to before his attitude changed.
I think he gets singled out partly as you say, because of his potential, and partly cos he just seems like a bit of a cock.
A player like Valencia is given more slack not just because he's a less talented player who consistently plays about the best he can, but also cos he seems such a great lad.
Whereas with Nani, you get the selfishness, the posturing, the falling over clutching his face, the celebration where he pushes everyone away so he can do a set of pointless backflips... it all adds up to a general impression of a bit of an immature knobend. None of that matters when he's giving us the spark of magic to win games. When he's playing shit, it starts to grate.
That said, I don't agree with people who claim he's lazy and doesn't track back, he clearly does.
A player like Valencia is given more slack not just because he's a less talented player who consistently plays about the best he can, but also cos he seems such a great lad.
Whereas with Nani, you get the selfishness, the posturing, the falling over clutching his face, the celebration where he pushes everyone away so he can do a set of pointless backflips... it all adds up to a general impression of a bit of an immature knobend. None of that matters when he's giving us the spark of magic to win games. When he's playing shit, it starts to grate.
That said, I don't agree with people who claim he's lazy and doesn't track back, he clearly does.
It's shame that backflips and bravado make him appear that way to some, because in interviews he really does come across as a lovely lad.
I must say I dont think his backflips have contributed to any negative feeling towards him for me, personally. I quite like backflips.
Watching them, that is. I couldnt do one if my life depended on it. In fact, I am pretty sure my life depends on me NOT doing them.
Watching them, that is. I couldnt do one if my life depended on it. In fact, I am pretty sure my life depends on me NOT doing them.
He does not seem a happy lad.
Think he is out next season.
too bad. I was hoping he would be here long term.
Think he is out next season.
too bad. I was hoping he would be here long term.
i just want to point out that Val was equally bad in the first half. Maybe even worse of the two wingers.
His decision making still lacks the maturity that many of us hoped would have come by now. These poor decisions are often what his performances are remembered by and this undermines the quality he has definitely got. We just have to hope that at some stage this season it finally clicks for him but games like yesterday take him further away from this.
We are still yet to see the best of Nani in my opinion. I hope he stays here for years to come and I don't think fergie will lose patience with his on-pitch performances as quickly as a lot of us fans do but we don't really know whats going on behind the scenes. If his head has been turned and he continues to put in performances like that then the end is probably in sight for him as a United player. Good thing is that he has a whole season to turn it around which he is more than capable of.
We are still yet to see the best of Nani in my opinion. I hope he stays here for years to come and I don't think fergie will lose patience with his on-pitch performances as quickly as a lot of us fans do but we don't really know whats going on behind the scenes. If his head has been turned and he continues to put in performances like that then the end is probably in sight for him as a United player. Good thing is that he has a whole season to turn it around which he is more than capable of.
I'm sorry, I didn't realise this was a Nani celebration thread. I was under the impression that you could express your feelings wether that be good or bad.
I dont like the player as you can tell from my posts, that shouldn't stop me from voicing an opinion.
But he looks like he's putting in an effort you know.... he's actually trying! Plus, look at how he behaves, he's not a cnut you know, unlike the other kid. He's so honest and loving.
He was crap yesterday, but to bash players for no good reason is just plain stupid. He'll be back and play a significant part in winning us the title. At his best he's the best winger in the league, probably be a country mile or so, or am I missing someone with his amount of potential and talent?
He isn't the player to spur the team on though, so when he isn't getting any service at all he struggles to get into the match. I think he would've been much better in the second half as there would have been more space to exploit.
He isn't the player to spur the team on though, so when he isn't getting any service at all he struggles to get into the match. I think he would've been much better in the second half as there would have been more space to exploit.
Agreed. Although to say he would have been better in the 2nd isn't saying much... Don't think I've seen a worse performance than that from him. The fact that he was the worst player in a white shirt yesterday show just how poor he was considering he had real competition from a few of our players for that title.
He needs games, and a goal, and he'll be winning matches for us in no time
Absolutely, and as I said above, I'm normally one of his defenders, but yesterday was abysmal. The fact that Giggs, who was piss poor, was placed on the wing instead of Nani tells it all really!Agreed. Although to say he would have been better in the 2nd isn't saying much... Don't think I've seen a worse performance than that from him. The fact that he was the worst player in a white shirt yesterday show just how poor he was considering he had real competition from a few of our players for that title.
He needs games, and a goal, and he'll be winning matches for us in no time
Bebe would have done better!
Needs to get his head in gear after all this contract bullshit.
I'm not worried. He's just out of form and over-doing it.
I'm not worried. He's just out of form and over-doing it.
Apparently he punched Petrucci in the Gym because he wasn't too happy about a training challenge, it will be interesting to see if Nani starts tomorrow, if he does the Daily Mail are full of shit.
He's still the most talented player at United and he's the only player that can produce something extra.
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