Javier Hernandez | 2012/13 Performances

[Steven Seagull]

It would be a bit of a shit forum if we had 7000 posts saying Hernandez is a great finisher

And the notion isn't nonsense. Welbeck is better in the build up and 5 assists won't change people's opinions anytime soon

 

[#07]

It would be a bit of a shit forum if we had 7000 posts saying Hernandez is a great finisher

Point taken.

 

[Lynk]

Even better its 12 goals (source).

Honestly speaking, and I've said it elsewhere today, I find the sudden rush to criticise our strikers a bit strange. Rooney, Chicharito and Welbeck have all been getting needless flak recently. Our strikers are the reason we're top and into the last 16 of the European Cup so the heat 3 out of 4 seem to be taking is a little unusual.

I think Welbeck deserves flack frankly. His attacking play hasn't been good enough. But Rooney and Hernandez have proven themselves, and will always come good.

 

[Lynk]

It would be a bit of a shit forum if we had 7000 posts saying Hernandez is a great finisher

And the notion isn't nonsense. Welbeck is better in the build up and 5 assists won't change people's opinions anytime soon

Welbeck is a better dribbler. That's it. It's aestically pleasing, but Hernandez has been more effective in creating goals this season. Demonstrated perfectly against Wigan. Him, RVP and Kagawa make the best break of the season and Welbeck ballses it up by performing some gangling dribble instead of shooting.

 

[Xander45]

And I hate to bang on about it, but some of you conversely also seem to be completely hesistent to criticize Welbeck, who hasn't been scoring this year, who has less assists than Hernandez, despite this nonsense notion that he is better in the build up.

Local lad that came through the system playing for the team he grew up loving. He's bound to get more slack for that alone.

Welbeck is the more comfortable on the ball in my opinion, but Hernandez has obviously been working on that side of his game as it's come on quite a lot the past couple of seasons, his passing especially.

But anyway, neither of them have "championship standard build up play", that's just a very silly thing to say.

 

[Lynk]

Local lad that came through the system playing for the team he grew up loving. He's bound to get more slack for that alone.

Yeah, which is absolute horseshit. I get constantly get shit on for criticizing the "1 goal" thing, because he's a "local lad". It doesn't make you less of a fan when you criticize a striker for scoring less goals than Patrice Evra and Jonny Evans. He hasn't been good enough this season, and last season was largely overrated. 12 goals? Hernandez got 20 in his first season, and him and Rooney (along with Berba) helped us win the league and got us to a CL final.

 

[Xander45]

Finishing is not Welbeck's strongest attribute, and he doesn't have the explosive speed and positional play of Hernandez. He's still a bloody good striker though, just needs games, but anyways we should probably leave the Welbeck stuff for the Welbeck thread.

 

[MrMojo]

Are you being pedantic or am I being really dim? I think you - like a large number of United supporters - are showing a complete lack of appreciation for what Hernández contributes in the build-up. That's all I've ever been talking about. This is one of the worst debates I can ever remember reading never mind taking part in and I'm at the heart of it...feck me.

Dodgy question to ask, but I assumed effort, desire and determination were part of build up play. However after the micro analysis of 'what is technique' I don't anybody wants to do the same with build up play.

What a massive fecking lie.

True, I remember handing your arse to you then.

Sensationalist like, I don't know, saying Hernandez' build-up play is 'championship level'?

Despite all your attempts to draw focus and muddy the water, that is the only thing that we're all disagreeing with. If you would just admit that either you were wrong to say that, or that it was a clumsy way of phrasing a different point, I think everyone would be in agreement. You seem to be trying to shift your argument anyway, claiming you weren't calling his build-up play awful (what else could you have meant by dubbing it Championship level?)

Why not just admit defeat on that one point, so that we can all get on with our lives?

Christ will somebody think of Brightonian, poor fella hasn't had a wash,wank or fed the cat for two days.

You're right, there's no drama to see here.

 

[Fergus' son]

Hernandez has been much better in the build up than last year when he was about as wank as Defoe. I think Defoe has also made improvements in his general play this year that comes with a run of goals and games.

Jason Roberts is a championship level striker, a decent one as well. Just to put things in perspective.

No way Roberts has better, or even the same level of link up play as Hernandez IMO.

 

[Fergus' son]

Npower Championship Top Scorers

Murray Crystal Palace 22
Austin Burnley 20
Becchio Leeds United 15
Rhodes Blackburn 15
Ince Blackpool 13
Wood Leicester 13
King Birmingham 12
Nugent Leicester 12
Vydra Watford 12
Mackail-Smith Brighton 11
Campbell Ipswich 10
Deeney Watford 10
Baldock Bristol City 9
Ebanks-Blake Wolverhampton 9
McDonald Middlesbrough 9

I'm struggling to see anyone here that has link up play on the same level as Hernandez, never mind better. Maybe Ince? Some of the others is a laughable comparison.

 

[The Neviller]

True, I remember handing your arse to you then..

Course you did. I got repped for calling you a wanker, because everyone thought you were a wanker.

You've changed though, which is nice.

 

[Shark]

Course you did. I got repped for calling you a wanker, because everyone thought you were a wanker.

You've changed though, which is nice.

 

[MrMojo]

Course you did. I got repped for calling you a wanker, because everyone thought you were a wanker.

You've changed though, which is nice.

Everyone being the voices in your head I take it.

Didn't we have a debate, you saying youth players were much more loyal than signings, about two months before Pogba, Morrison and Fryers decided to play up?

 

[The Neviller]

Everyone being the voices in your head I take it.

Didn't we have a debate, you saying youth players were much more loyal than signings, about two before Pogba, Morrison and Fryers decided to play up?

Might have been the voices. And the mods. And most of the other newbies.

Nah, you've made that up. We mostly conversed in the endless "How shit is our midfield" threads, in which you seemed to be perma-locked with your constant whinging about our shitty midfield players.

 

[MrMojo]

Might have been the voices. And the mods. And most of the other newbies.

Nah, you've made that up. We mostly conversed in the endless "How shit is our midfield" threads, in which you seemed to be perma-locked with your constant whinging about our shitty midfield players.

I'm guessing I had a few more like minded posters in that one.

I like you Neviller with your kooky, unexplained aggression, striding through the Caf like a young Joey Barton.

The best bit about this debate is that you just know the next time Hernandez plays there'll be twenty guys just fixated on him. Comedy stuff.

 

[The Neviller]

I'm guessing I had a few more like minded posters in that one.

I like you Neviller with your kooky, unexplained aggression, striding through the Caf like a young Joey Barton.

The best bit about this debate is that you just know the next time Hernandez plays there'll be twenty guys just fixated on him. Comedy stuff.

I always liked you too Mojo, you were good value for a debate.

I did get repped for abusing you though, that wasn't a lie.

I think i'm older than Joey Barton.

 

[MrMojo]

I always liked you too Mojo, you were good value for a debate.

I did get repped for abusing you though, that wasn't a lie.

I think i'm older than Joey Barton.

Un peu.

 

[Brightonian]

The best bit about this debate is that you just know the next time Hernandez plays there'll be twenty guys just fixated on him. Comedy stuff.

No change for me then. I'm always fixated on him, because I'm just a massive Hernandez fanboy. I don't even really support the team, I just cheer for them because Hernandez happens to wear the shirt.

You knew all this already, though. Who else but someone who spends matches 'fixated on him' would claim that Chico produces build-up play worthy of a Premier League player?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Welbeck is a better dribbler. That's it. It's aestically pleasing, but Hernandez has been more effective in creating goals this season. Demonstrated perfectly against Wigan. Him, RVP and Kagawa make the best break of the season and Welbeck ballses it up by performing some gangling dribble instead of shooting.

Do you mean?


as·cet·ic (-stk)
n.
A person who renounces material comforts and leads a life of austere self-discipline, especially as an act of religious devotion.
adj.
Which would explain his selfless attitude

 

[Platato]

so much for MrMojo not coming back into the thread. Face it lad, you can't help yourself!

 

[MrMojo]

so much for MrMojo not coming back into the thread. Face it lad, you can't help yourself!

I'm not one to argue so I'll agree with that.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

so much for MrMojo not coming back into the thread. Face it lad, you can't help yourself!

When you're affected with a form of narcissistic personality disorder that's what happens

 

[The Neviller]

When you're affected with a form of narcissistic personality disorder that's what happens

He isn't narcissistic, he just loves himself.

 

[Hellboy]

I said it in this thread 2 or 3 weeks ago, people who still criticize his link up play and question his overall technical attributes are fecking blind. He's obviously not on the same level as the best strikers in the world technically, but he's progressed an awful lot on this side of the game this season. Get over it.

 

[Dresilved]

His first season showed beyond doubt he has natural ability,

His second season showed he still had things to learn,

This season shows he is learning those things well.......

I can't see why there's even a debate about him, the boys got quality in him?

 

[Brightonian]

Christ will somebody think of Brightonian, poor fella hasn't had a wash,wank or fed the cat for two days.

Your ear for irony is as well developed as your ability to engage in a reasonable discussion, I see.

Shit, that was ironic too, wasn't it? I'll translate:

'Whoooooooosh.'

 

[Elliott]

I guess now that Park and O'Shea have gone, people feel the need to vent frustrations on players. Giggs and Scholes being the main target this year, but also, alarmingly Rooney and Hernandez. I frankly don't get this argument. How can you fault a second choice striker who has 10 goals and 5 assists? Who has scored vitalwinners against Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa? Who works his arse off in training, says all the right things, never complains and deserves to be in the team on current form.

And I hate to bang on about it, but some of you conversely also seem to be completely hesistent to criticize Welbeck, who hasn't been scoring this year, who has less assists than Hernandez, despite this nonsense notion that he is better in the build up.

 

[MrMojo]

Your ear for irony is as well developed as your ability to engage in a reasonable discussion, I see.

Shit, that was ironic too, wasn't it? I'll translate:

'Whoooooooosh.'

I think you need to look up irony and like I've said before Brightonian, you don't have to be so serious about this, it's just football.

 

[Brightonian]

Brightonian, you don't have to be so serious about this, it's just football.

I'm guessing this is the closest we ever get from you to an admission that you were wrong, then? That i'm being 'too serious'. It's a football forum, for crying out loud, how serious do you think I am?

 

[Ruud10]

There's no serious debate about the ability of Javier Hernandez. He can not only score, but his linkup play is fantastic. He's everything you could reasonably want in a forward whose name is not Messi or van Persie.

 

[#07]

There's no serious debate about the ability of Javier Hernandez. He can not only score, but his linkup play is fantastic. He's everything you could reasonably want in a forward whose name is not Messi or van Persie.

Plus Marca still like him too: Chicharito, more than a Rooney stand-in. They've put up a video highlighting him as Premier League player of the week too (link).

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Hernandez has done excellent filling in for Rooney. He now has a game against Liverpool. Keep it going Chicharito, keep it going.

Hell even if he doesn't we have RVP!!!!!

 

[Shark]

He has a good enough record against Liverpool. That makes me all the more confident about next weekend.

 

[Rozay]

There's no serious debate about the ability of Javier Hernandez. He can not only score, but his linkup play is fantastic. He's everything you could reasonably want in a forward whose name is not Messi or van Persie.

That's extremely hyperbolic and far from true.

There is certainly at least one level between Hernandez and the likes of Messi/Persie or Ronaldo. His link up play is not 'fantastic'. Wayne Rooney's link up play is 'fantastic'. Him passing the ball successfully to Persie isn't testimony of some world-class approach play. The pass didn't exactly split the defenders or anything, and was behind it's intended target anyway. Persie did A LOT of work after the ball left Hernandez' foot and it going in.

Hernandez is the best around at what he does though, and that is to be a nuisance in the box and on the shoulder of the last defender, and to finish chances. He has certainly improved his link up play to a level where it is not a liability and does not let himself or the team down, but he hasn't improved it to a level where he might be now 'known for his great link play'.

 

[#07]

He has a good enough record against Liverpool. That makes me all the more confident about next weekend.

Hasn't Javier scored in every appearance he's made against Liverpool? If memory serves me Chico didn't play in the home game against Liverpool in 2010/11 but scored in the away fixture. Then last season he scored our equalizer at Anfield but didn't get on the pitch in the home win over the Scousers. A lot like Wigan and Chelsea, Liverpool just seems to be a team Hernandez likes scoring against. That being said its not like he has a problem scoring against any team really is it? He's a born goal getting.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I honestly think Hernandez should be allowed to keep Rooney out of the team even when Rooney is fit again. Might even give Rooney a bit of a fright knowing that for the first time he has to fight for a place in the team.

 

[Shark]

I honestly think Hernandez should be allowed to keep Rooney out of the team even when Rooney is fit again. Might even give Rooney a bit of a fright knowing that for the first time he has to fight for a place in the team.

I love Hernandez as much as anybody, but I don't agree that he should ever start a game that we need to win, when Rooney's fit.

Wayne is instrumental to our play and when he's on the pitch, in pretty much any position, he can still make things happen rather he's on a bad patch or not. One awful game this season doesn't change anything.

 

[Brwned]

Dodgy question to ask, but I assumed effort, desire and determination were part of build up play.

Effort, desire and determination are these intangibles that you love about good 'ol Scotty Parker. I don't know what they actually mean in the context of build-up play. One minute you're telling me technique and build-up play play are interchangeable, the next you're telling me effort, desire and determination are part of it too. Not only that but you're saying Hernández excels at all of them but at the same time he's awful in the build-up. It seems like you're doing what you criticised Fergus' son of doing just yesterday but I really can't make heads or tails of this debate any more.

 

[MrMojo]

Effort, desire and determination are these intangibles that you love about good 'ol Scotty Parker. I don't know what they actually mean in the context of build-up play. One minute you're telling me technique and build-up play play are interchangeable, the next you're telling me effort, desire and determination are part of it too. Not only that but you're saying Hernández excels at all of them but at the same time he's awful in the build-up. It seems like you're doing what you criticised Fergus' son of doing just yesterday but I really can't make heads or tails of this debate any more.

No, I said technique dictates how good your build up play is. I think it's the major determining factor. I also think desire and determination play a part. By that I mean willingness to run the channels, create space, effort to not just be the guy who puts it in the net.

I don't see what's so confusing about that.

But then I'm equally baffled by you, you've now said that build up play isn't really about technique and it doesn't really involve the three virtues you quoted above. It leaves me thinking what in your opinion does it involve.

 

[Brwned]

When I think of build-up play I think of someone like David Silva - there's no question he's a wonderful technician but for me his entire game is based around his vision, his combination play, his awareness, his teamplay. I think Hernández does that quite well these days. I absolutely didn't mean to suggest technique doesn't come into it however, not at all. The build-up for me is simply how a move builds up and how those involved contribute to it. When Hernández is playing he does try and advance the play and bring others into the game. Defoe either tries to create a chance for himself or tries to retain possession. He doesn't contribute positively to the build-up and creation of chances. Running the channels and creating space is part of it for me too - though I'd put that down to intelligent movement rather than effort, desire or determination. And he is good in wide positions.

At the end of the day as long as we can all agree that Hernández's all-round game has improved a lot from this time last year then I'm happy. The only issue for me has been whether people have been overlooking the work he's put into his game in the build-up. His touch is miles better than it was when he was really struggling for confidence last year like so: