Javier Hernandez | 2012/13 Performances

[manusteve]

But when a player like Chicharito shows such enthusiasm, and damn it, scores important goals regularly, what is the point in highlighting his build-up play?
If he missed chance after chance, then the argument would be more cogent.
He is unique because we do not have another player in the squad like him.

 

[Brwned]

To be fair Cina I think MrMojo is spot on in his initial post. Just a few posters have jumped on him imo for daring to point out blatant faults in Hernandez game. He never at any point said he wasn't a quality player.

Everyone knows Hernandez's linkup play is not at the same level as our other strikers and it's something he needs to work on. That's been said 100s of times in this thread already. No-one reacts badly to it simply because it's criticising a loveable character in the squad, no-one argues against it. There's a huge difference between saying that and saying it's Championship level. It shows a complete lack of appreciation for Hernández's all-round game - raw as it may be - and lack of acknowledgement for how poor the strikers in midtable and relegation teams really are in the build-up.

 

[MrMojo]

Everyone knows Hernandez's linkup play is not at the same level as our other strikers and it's something he needs to work on. That's been said 100s of times in this thread already. No-one reacts badly to it simply because it's criticising a loveable character in the squad, no-one argues against it. There's a huge difference between saying that and saying it's Championship level. It shows a complete lack of appreciation for Hernández's all-round game - raw as it may be - and lack of acknowledgement for how poor the strikers in midtable and relegation teams really are in the build-up.

When you said Defoe's build up play was 'miles behind Hernandez', I took it as your opinion. I don't agree, I doubt few on here would, I doubt any non United follower would.

I didn't turn that into you having a compete lack of appreciation or acknowledgement for Jermain Defoe.

Like I've said to others, lighten up, it's an inconsequential debate and just a knockabout discussion really.

 

[Fergus' son]

Defoe is awful in the build up IMO, yet it's still greater than championship level.

 

[MrMojo]

Defoes link up play isn't much better than Hernandezs

Defoe is awful in the build up IMO, yet it's still greater than championship level.

So if Defoe's link up play is awful, but still a bit better than Hernandezs, what adjective would you use for Hernandez?

 

[Fergus' son]

So if Defoe's link up play is awful, but still a bit better than Hernandezs, what adjective would you use for Hernandez?

Hernandez's link up is better IMO, I was being kind to Defoe with the first sentence. Plus he is younger and improving.

Also, I meant awful by PL standards, everythings relative you see.

Not sure why I'm answering your question when you refuse to answer mine though.

 

[Nighteyes]

Defoe is a better dribbler than Hernandez but Hernandez's link up play is a level above Defoe in and around the box

 

[MrMojo]

Hernandez's link up is better IMO, I was being kind to Defoe with the first sentence. Plus he is younger and improving.

Also, I meant awful by PL standards, everythings relative you see.

Not sure why I'm answering your question when you refuse to answer mine though.

just a change of mind then, that a fair swing of opinion in such a short space of time.He's gone from being a bit better than Hernandez to awful in a day.

 

[Fergus' son]

just a change of mind then, that a fair swing of opinion in such a short space of time.He's gone from being a bit better than Hernandez to awful in a day.

Nah, no change of opinion, just an initial sentence that was poorly worded. See I can admit it, only if you could...

Anyway, either way, both are better than championship level.

 

[Brwned]

When you said Defoe's build up play was 'miles behind Hernandez', I took it as your opinion. I don't agree, I doubt few on here would, I doubt any non United follower would.

I didn't turn that into you having a compete lack of appreciation or acknowledgement for Jermain Defoe.

Like I've said to others, lighten up, it's an inconsequential debate and just a knockabout discussion really.

It's all my opinion and anything I've ever posted on here is inconsequential - I thought both go without saying. I personally think you're in the minority when it comes to thinking Defoe's linkup play isn't absolutely shocking but there's really no way to gauge that I guess. I've no doubt loads of people think Hernández's is equally shocking and I think that's a misrepresentation based on last season. There's been a marked improvement in his game in the last few months and that will become more widely accepted as each month goes by, I reckon.

 

[MrMojo]

Nah, no change of opinion, just an initial sentence that was poorly worded. See I can admit it, only if you could...

Anyway, either way, both are better than championship level.

It was worded just fine, you said Defoe's build up wasn't much better than Hernandez's, then a day later you say Defoe's awful. Perfect English as far as I can see. Take another look.

A cynical person would say you were changing your previously held opinion on Devoe just to fit in with what Brwned said. But I'm an optimist so I'll believe your initial reason for this sea change, you were just being kind to Defoe.

 

[Fergus' son]

It was worded just fine, you said Defoe's build up wasn't much better than Hernandez's, then a day later you say Defoe's awful. Perfect English as far as I can see. Take another look.

A cynical person would say you were changing your previously held opinion on Devoe just to fit in with what Brwned said. But I'm an optimist so I'll believe your initial reason for this sea change, you were just being kind to Defoe.

I'm the one that suggested Defoe was poor in the build up before Brwned even mentioned anything? Anyway, this is clearly a ploy to detract away from your initial retarded comments.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Defoe is awful in the build up, but still a little better than Hernandez. What does it matter what adjective I would use to describe Hermandez's? It's still greater than championship level, as I pointed out.

Where are you going with this?

 

[MrMojo]

It's all my opinion and anything I've ever posted on here is inconsequential - I thought both go without saying. I personally think you're in the minority when it comes to thinking Defoe's linkup play isn't absolutely shocking but there's really no way to gauge that I guess. I've no doubt loads of people think Hernández's is equally shocking and I think that's a misrepresentation based on last season. There's been a marked improvement in his game in the last few months and that will become more widely accepted as each month goes by, I reckon.

I've never claimed anything of the sort but I don't think I'd be alone in thinking he isn't 'miles behind Hernandez', which is the assertion you made and I accepted without dramatising it to the point of a complete lack of appreciation for the player.

 

[Cina]

A cynical person would say you were changing your previously held opinion on Devoe just to fit in with what Brwned said. But I'm an optimist so I'll believe your initial reason for this sea change, you were just being kind to Defoe.

I'm the one that suggested Deoe was poor in the build up before Brwned even mentioned anything? Anyway, this is clearly a ploy to detract away from your initial retarded comments.

... what Defoe'k ?

 

[Brwned]

Isn't it possible that he didn't want to get involved in a tiresome argument comparing Defoe's specific qualities to Hernández's so decided to make the much less controversial, argumentative point? Not that it's something you would do, being the tirelessly argumentative person that you are - just like myself - but really I'm quite sure people do things like that all the time to not get embroiled in pedantic arguments. They're the smart ones you see.

I'm not dramatising anything, I think people completely disregard how much improvement there's been in Hernández's game because they still have many of last season's horror shows fresh in the memory. It's an accurate representation of my opinion. His build-up play now isn't appreciated as it should be. It's miles better than it was this time last year and he's creating good opportunities on a regular basis which is something Defoe simply doesn't do.

 

[MrMojo]

I'm the one that suggested Deoe was poor in the build up before Brwned even mentioned anything? Anyway, this is clearly a ploy to detract away from your initial retarded comments.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Defoe is awful in the build up, but still a little better than Hernandez. What does it matter what adjective I would use to describe Hermandez's? It's still greater than championship level, as I pointed out.

Where are you going with this?

No that's what you actually said, we don't have to do it for the sake of argument. C'mon, I think you know you were just joining the chorus of boo boys on this particular point.

 

[MrMojo]

Isn't it possible that he didn't want to get involved in a tiresome argument comparing Defoe's specific qualities to Hernández's so decided to make the much less controversial, argumentative point? Not that it's something you would do, being the tirelessly argumentative person that you are - just like myself - but really I'm quite sure people do things like that all the time to not get embroiled in pedantic arguments. They're the smart ones you see.

I'm not dramatising anything, I think people completely disregard how much improvement there's been in Hernández's game because they still have many of last season's horror shows fresh in the memory. It's an accurate representation of my opinion.

It's a clear as day contradiction if you look at the posts. It's no big deal, but I know Fergus' Son from the newbies and he'd have called me on it if I'd have done similar(and rightly so).

 

[Brwned]

We're lucky to have you here to keep everyone right in that case.

 

[MrMojo]

.I'm not dramatising anything, I think people completely disregard how much improvement there's been in Hernández's game because they still have many of last season's horror shows fresh in the memory. It's an accurate representation of my opinion. His build-up play now isn't appreciated as it should be. It's miles better than it was this time last year and he's creating good opportunities on a regular basis which is something Defoe simply doesn't do.

I've acknowledge his improvement in this thread, I've not called him awful, I've not said he brings nothing to the team.

To go from that to it being suggested I have a complete lack of appreciation is what I naturally object to. Parts of this debate have been like dealing with a buch of sensationalist journalists. Fun but after a while a bit grating.

 

[Fergus' son]

Isn't it possible that he didn't want to get involved in a tiresome argument comparing Defoe's specific qualities to Hernández's so decided to make the much less controversial, argumentative point? Not that it's something you would do, being the tirelessly argumentative person that you are - just like myself - but really I'm quite sure people do things like that all the time to not get embroiled in pedantic arguments. They're the smart ones you see.

I'm not dramatising anything, I think people completely disregard how much improvement there's been in Hernández's game because they still have many of last season's horror shows fresh in the memory. It's an accurate representation of my opinion. His build-up play now isn't appreciated as it should be. It's miles better than it was this time last year and he's creating good opportunities on a regular basis which is something Defoe simply doesn't do.

Not just saying it to 'fit in'(), but the first paragraph is accurate.

 

[Fergus' son]

No that's what you actually said, we don't have to do it for the sake of argument. C'mon, I think you know you were just joining the chorus of boo boys on this particular point.

Ok, not for the sake of argument, just normally, where are you going with this?

Both are still better than championship level.

 

[MrMojo]

Not just saying it to 'fit in'(), but the first paragraph is accurate.

First it was because you were being kind to Defoe, then it's because you misworded it and now it's down to Brwned's reasoning. All in the space of ten minutes. This is all very confusing.

 

[The Neviller]

You always were a bit of a tit in the newbies Mojo. You've been ridiculous here.

As pointed out, had you have said his build up play wasn't his strongest trait, but that he made up for it in other areas, or something like that, you'd have had little disagreement. It would have been an entirely dull and pointless post, but it would have been mostly agreed with.

The fact you stated his build-up play was "Championship level" is why you've had people jump on your post. Fair play for stoking up some debate, if that's what you were trying. If not, then maybe stop talking hyperbolic nonsense.

 

[Cina]

Ooh look who waltzes in at the end throwing insults and names around, drama queen.

 

[Fergus' son]

First it was because you were being kind to Defoe, then it's because you misworded it and now it's down to Brwned's reasoning. All in the space of ten minutes. This is all very confusing.

All three can apply at once, they are not exclusive. My statement was kind to Defoe, it was misworded in terms of it reflecting my opinion accurately, and it was worded in a way so that it doesnt become the main topic of conversation and detract from your initial point (unsuccessfully it seems).

Let's move on from that. Any criticisms you have about what I said can stand in your mind if you wish.

Where are you going with this?

 

[Brwned]

I've acknowledge his improvement in this thread, I've not called him awful, I've not said he brings nothing to the team.

To go from that to it being suggested I have a complete lack of appreciation is what I naturally object to. Parts of this debate have been like dealing with a buch of sensationalist journalists. Fun but after a while a bit grating.

A complete lack of appreciation for his all round game. I don't think you appreciate what he offers outside of goals at all. Who's the journalist here?! You're the one misquoting me to make your own dramatised point.

 

[Shark]

I've acknowledge his improvement in this thread, I've not called him awful, I've not said he brings nothing to the team.

To go from that to it being suggested I have a complete lack of appreciation is what I naturally object to. Parts of this debate have been like dealing with a buch of sensationalist journalists. Fun but after a while a bit grating.

No, just that his game outside the box is championship level.

 

[Lynk]

He has 10 goals and 5 assists. feck off naysayers. Criticize someone who deserves it.

 

[Fergus' son]

... what Defoe'k ?

I only just got this!

 

[Brightonian]

I've acknowledge his improvement in this thread, I've not called him awful, I've not said he brings nothing to the team.

To go from that to it being suggested I have a complete lack of appreciation is what I naturally object to. Parts of this debate have been like dealing with a buch of sensationalist journalists. Fun but after a while a bit grating.

Sensationalist like, I don't know, saying Hernandez' build-up play is 'championship level'?

Despite all your attempts to draw focus and muddy the water, that is the only thing that we're all disagreeing with. If you would just admit that either you were wrong to say that, or that it was a clumsy way of phrasing a different point, I think everyone would be in agreement. You seem to be trying to shift your argument anyway, claiming you weren't calling his build-up play awful (what else could you have meant by dubbing it Championship level?)

Why not just admit defeat on that one point, so that we can all get on with our lives?

 

[The Neviller]

Sensationalist like, I don't know, saying Hernandez' build-up play is 'championship level'?

Despite all your attempts to draw focus and muddy the water, that is the only thing that we're all disagreeing with. If you would just admit that either you were wrong to say that, or that it was a clumsy way of phrasing a different point, I think everyone would be in agreement. You seem to be trying to shift your argument anyway, claiming you weren't calling his build-up play awful (what else could you have meant by dubbing it Championship level?)

Why not just admit defeat on that one point, so that we can all get on with our lives?

 

[kouroux]

Why is it so hard for certain posters to admit they may be wrong about something or just generally concede a point ? There is no shame in that

 

[MrMojo]

A complete lack of appreciation for his all round game. I don't think you appreciate what he offers outside of goals at all. Who's the journalist here?! You're the one misquoting me to make your own dramatised point.

multiple times I've applauded his effort, work rate and desire, all done outside the box. So where's the complete lack of appreciation. Nothing but a fabrication.

No, just that his game outside the box is championship level.

You said based on last year I had a point so don 't start pretending you're a million miles away from the same opinion.

You always were a bit of a tit in the newbies Mojo. You've been ridiculous here.

As pointed out, had you have said his build up play wasn't his strongest trait, but that he made up for it in other areas, or something like that, you'd have had little disagreement. It would have been an entirely dull and pointless post, but it would have been mostly agreed with.

The fact you stated his build-up play was "Championship level" is why you've had people jump on your post. Fair play for stoking up some debate, if that's what you were trying. If not, then maybe stop talking hyperbolic nonsense.

Sorry I don't remember you from the newbies.

 

[Brwned]

multiple times I've applauded his effort, work rate and desire, all done outside the box. So where's the complete lack of appreciation. Nothing but a fabrication.



You said based on last year I had a point so don 't start pretending you're a million miles away from the same opinion.



Sorry I don't remember you from the newbies.

Are you being pedantic or am I being really dim? I think you - like a large number of United supporters - are showing a complete lack of appreciation for what Hernández contributes in the build-up. That's all I've ever been talking about. This is one of the worst debates I can ever remember reading never mind taking part in and I'm at the heart of it...feck me.

 

[Cina]

I'm going to go with Brwned being dim!

 

[The Neviller]

multiple times I've applauded his effort, work rate and desire, all done outside the box. So where's the complete lack of appreciation. Nothing but a fabrication.



You said based on last year I had a point so don 't start pretending you're a million miles away from the same opinion.



Sorry I don't remember you from the newbies.

What a massive fecking lie.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Hernandez has been much better in the build up than last year when he was about as wank as Defoe. I think Defoe has also made improvements in his general play this year that comes with a run of goals and games.

Jason Roberts is a championship level striker, a decent one as well. Just to put things in perspective.

 

[#07]

One of the interesting things about Chicharito is that he spends a decent amount of time in wide areas. Naturally, nowhere near as much as our other forwards but he can be regularly spotted down the flanks making himself an out ball or an option for a pass. Considering how he is characterised as always being on the shoulder of the last defender he does work the entire line a lot and he does come into the play more than many may think.

 

[Lynk]

I guess now that Park and O'Shea have gone, people feel the need to vent frustrations on players. Giggs and Scholes being the main target this year, but also, alarmingly Rooney and Hernandez. I frankly don't get this argument. How can you fault a second choice striker who has 10 goals and 5 assists? Who has scored vitalwinners against Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa? Who works his arse off in training, says all the right things, never complains and deserves to be in the team on current form.

And I hate to bang on about it, but some of you conversely also seem to be completely hesistent to criticize Welbeck, who hasn't been scoring this year, who has less assists than Hernandez, despite this nonsense notion that he is better in the build up.

 

[#07]

I guess now that Park and O'Shea have gone, people feel the need to vent frustrations on players. Giggs and Scholes being the main target this year, but also, alarmingly Rooney and Hernandez. I frankly don't get this argument. How can you fault a second choice striker who has 10 goals and 5 assists? Who has scored vitalwinners against Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa? Who works his arse off in training, says all the right things, never complains and deserves to be in the team on current form.

And I hate to bang on about it, but some of you conversely also seem to be completely hesistent to criticize Welbeck, who hasn't been scoring this year, who has less assists than Hernandez, despite this nonsense notion that he is better in the build up.

Even better its 12 goals (source).

Honestly speaking, and I've said it elsewhere today, I find the sudden rush to criticise our strikers a bit strange. Rooney, Chicharito and Welbeck have all been getting needless flak recently. Our strikers are the reason we're top and into the last 16 of the European Cup so the heat 3 out of 4 seem to be taking is a little unusual.