Great point!Have you tried claiming the extra goal that Maradonna would clearly have used his hand to score?
Score's now level guys!
All-time Fantasy Draft - antohan v Thisistheone
- Thread starter Brwned
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Score's now level guys!
I came on to vote for anto but vilanova has done a superb job of shoring things up with his subs. Toughie.
I'm sure Marcos counted that one already and he still sees me winning. An Argie and Boca fan can see the actual reality of how Maradona is being nullified by his own team's setup, shame so many others can't.
What seemed like the sensible thing to do has slapped me in the face. Lost me a 4 vote cushion. Gutted.
All I need then is a Santos fan to come on and vote for me after your gross mis-management of PeléI'm sure Marcos counted that one already and he still sees me winning. An Argie and Boca fan can see the actual reality of how Maradona is being nullified by his own team's setup, shame so many others can't.
Ludicrous, stop playing down Maradona for feck sake. He is nullified because he is playing with Cruyff and other very good players. Mental.
You should have worried more about your own players being out of position, rather than constantly criticising Thisistheone's team. Maradona is right where he wants to be and he would have plenty of space, with a true striker like Eto'o pushing up and Cruyff dragging defenders left, right and centre.
Vilanova
Hadn't even crossed my mind! Maybe I even helped him with that renaming 
Mate, yes, he has fixed the big gaping hole down that flank. For about 75 minutes of the game I pummelled him mercilessly. For the last 15 minutes he will be better protected, so I've switched to acknowledge that.
He still has Bremner doing all the ball recovery work. The only way he is getting the ball is through him, a defender's interception, or the keeper saving or picking it up from the back of the net.
I still rate my back 5 somewhat higher and the two men sitting in front providing significantly better shielding and recovery. I am very very solid at the back and have been throughout the game.
Laudrup, Stoichkov and Pelé are operating fluidly in acres of space. Two of them were reknowned for one of the most stunning REAL attacking partnerships of the last couple of decades. Instead, Cruyff and Maradona are arguing over who is in charge, Cruyff wants to be in the thick of it and Charlton is also attacking that space.
Luis Enrique is in two minds, he can either go help out Bremner and Facchetti is free to bomb forward or can focus on the tracking back and Bremner is getting completely run over.
I actually do think it is a pretty simple call really. Some great players on both sides but one clearly works while the other one is bound to be disfunctional.
Even more bollocks from Anto, right at the death. And he's gonna rub it in by placing his own vote right at the end, giving him the victory.
Come on voters! Give my team that final boost they need. Remember the team that started and played the majority of this match. It was too hot to handle for Anto who panicked and has constantly chucked Pelé around the pitch like a cart-horse.
Come on voters! Give my team that final boost they need. Remember the team that started and played the majority of this match. It was too hot to handle for Anto who panicked and has constantly chucked Pelé around the pitch like a cart-horse.
Well not necessarily, he has a far greater hard-on for Messi.I'm sure Marcos counted that one already and he still sees me winning. An Argie and Boca fan can see the actual reality of how Maradona is being nullified by his own team's setup, shame so many others can't.
Isn't Marcos a River fan? It's lucky votes can't be changed or you might be in trouble for getting that one wrong!
Have you seriously never seen Pelé play upfront?
At no point have I said anything other than Maradona being a great player. In that very same post I actually state why I THINK HE IS THE BEST EVER.
He is not out of position, the setup doesn't favour him, it really is plain simple. Look at any of the teams he played successfully in and everything ran through him, everyone played off him. Yet TITO has two (arguably three with Charlton) orchestrators, it just isn't right, too many cooks spoil the broth, it's an age old thing, not something I've just made up.
Re: out of position, I only ever think that is accurate when a player is asked to do something he doesn't have the attributes for. Ideally you play someone in his most effective position but sometimes needs must (e.g. Rooney being sacrificed by SAF). It's all about the directives and whether they will be followed. Rooney will not perform as well on the left wing, but will give a fullback something to think about, will track back, etc. so it wouldn't be the best Rooney but if that is what is required I'm comfortable with him doing it.
Did I at any point say Irwin was out of position? Of course not, just that he wouldn't keep up with Facchetti, Iniesta and Henry all capable on that flank. It's true, nothing controversial about it.
Did I say Cruyff was out of position or a bad player? No, just that he is in the wrong setup and would instinctively go central to where the action is.
Was Pelé out of position as a striker? Surely not, he was incredibly effective and provided what my team most needed at that point in the game. It's funny you keep banging on about him being out of position when we had an entire argument on the game thread over your refusal to drop him deep when your side quite clearly needed that. You had no cooks in the middle of the park and enough upfront with Kalle and Blokhin being very much a winger-cum-striker. Firepower was not your problem, pulling the strings was.
You've moved him three or four times. Gives the impression you're not entirely sure how best to use him and Pelé himself must be wondering what is going on. Losing faith in the manager.
Meanwhile, I've played Maradona in his best position all game. In fact, All tournament. I've built my team around him. Pelé deserved the same from you.
Vilanova. Nice one, Gio.
Nice one, Gio.I like the way structured arguments are just summarily dismissed as bollocks on a continuous basis without even an attempt to prove otherwise.
I'm a bit stuck on that as few have actually weighed in properly leaving me to do all the arguing, Brwned more notably. I guess he wants to stay away from the bile, which is fair enough.
He played upfront as a striker, an awesome one at that, while you had George friggin' Weah, so that Henry had the freedom to go wide on the left and exploit that weak flank.
The moment that flank was sorted out there was no longer a need for his presence in the box, which allowed me to strengthen the midfield with him and Stoichkov. I even posted that BEFORE your tactics change. That was my preferred setup all along but I tweaked it to exploit a weakness of yours, a weakness you acknowledge in a roundabout way in your tactics script. Where is the panic move there? It was in the pipeline all along but, as SAF says, you always want the rival manager to be forced into a sub first.
I thought that was Scalisto? I may be wrong though now that you mention it. It's still a guy who has a Church (as in religious creed) named after him in his country!Isn't Marcos a River fan? It's lucky votes can't be changed or you might be in trouble for getting that one wrong!
So why didn't you start Pelé upfront?
Henry drifting left, into Iniesta's space, or Stoichkov's. Either way like I said, they're in eachother's way. You'd have 3 players all drifting left with Laudrup coming inside as well. Breitner, Charlton & Cruyff would have a field day.
You again take the piss out of Weah while ignoring what's behind him and how all of my players are in their best positions and are not drifting left into eachother's area, like your team.
Cruyff and Garrincha were stretching the play all game, combined with Weah's energy and strength, left Maradona with extra space. You seem obsessed with Weah's goals ratio, even going as far as to say Inzaghi would have been better!! Bloody hell. You do realise modern day forwards do more than just score right? And there's not many better than Weah or Eto'o at that.
Henry drifting left, into Iniesta's space, or Stoichkov's. Either way like I said, they're in eachother's way. You'd have 3 players all drifting left with Laudrup coming inside as well. Breitner, Charlton & Cruyff would have a field day.
You again take the piss out of Weah while ignoring what's behind him and how all of my players are in their best positions and are not drifting left into eachother's area, like your team.
Cruyff and Garrincha were stretching the play all game, combined with Weah's energy and strength, left Maradona with extra space. You seem obsessed with Weah's goals ratio, even going as far as to say Inzaghi would have been better!! Bloody hell. You do realise modern day forwards do more than just score right? And there's not many better than Weah or Eto'o at that.
I stayed out for two reasons.
1. Thisistheone would think I've got an agenda against him in the same way you think Fergus'son has an agenda against you because the key flaw on his side has been there for a couple of games now and I've pointed it out already - the attacking trio that has won him so many votes has only won him votes on reputation, it would be a nightmare on the pitch. Messi on that right wing would've been much better IMO.
2. Your games are full of passionate debate that inevitably descends into personal arguments.
1. Thisistheone would think I've got an agenda against him in the same way you think Fergus'son has an agenda against you because the key flaw on his side has been there for a couple of games now and I've pointed it out already - the attacking trio that has won him so many votes has only won him votes on reputation, it would be a nightmare on the pitch. Messi on that right wing would've been much better IMO.
2. Your games are full of passionate debate that inevitably descends into personal arguments.
Are we allowed to change our minds? Or is voting in steel?
He was doing the same thing in the "spaghetti teamsheet" (
) as in the second one. In fact, everyone was doing the exact same thing as before, it was just a cosmetic change to a teamsheet that had tried to explain what EXACTLY they were doing and got criticised for it. Clearly people would rather imagine themselves and I could do without the dissonance when being too specific and someone taking issue with it. I have to cut that down, it's clear the less said the better.I agree with the first statement, he has been in his favoured position all along.
Disagree with the other two.
- You haven't built a team around him, you have built a team bearing in mind he has to keep that spot but it doesn't get the best out of him, it's a traffic-jam and, as I said, a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth.
- No player is bigger than the team. Not even Pelé. If the team has enough build-up and creativity (enough cooks, too many already according to Dan given Iniesta and Laudrup) then his goal threat is called upon. He clearly is a better orchestrator than those two, but the gap is not as humongous as playing either of them upfront instead!!!! He was a phenomenal goalscorer and complete all-rounder.
I did. Henry's remit was to go wide to help Iniesta double up on Irwin if Facchetti stayed back. If Facchetti and Iniesta doubled up on Irwin he would obviously be keeping Sammer with his hands full while waiting for the breakthrough/cross.
You were the one banging on about Weha being the only credible No.9 to begin with. In fact, I think that whole discussion derailed me from the most relevant points as clearly no one was ever going to vote for your side on the back of George Weah being a better No.9 than Pelé. It was ludicrous but I went along with it, my feckup.
So your basic grumble with my team is that there's too many good players in attack?
That doesn't make sense. Too many cooks spoil the broth, that's not football, that's bloody master chef.
Why would it be more detrimental to Maradona having Cruyff to his left than say Jorge Valdano? You're saying I should have a weaker player than Cruyff so it makes Maradona stand out more? I don't buy it.
Players become better when surrounded with better players.
That doesn't make sense. Too many cooks spoil the broth, that's not football, that's bloody master chef.
Why would it be more detrimental to Maradona having Cruyff to his left than say Jorge Valdano? You're saying I should have a weaker player than Cruyff so it makes Maradona stand out more? I don't buy it.
Players become better when surrounded with better players.
I'm very accutely aware of that mate, I understand. You seemed to be the only one who had the first clue about how Garrincha would work but kept it to a snippet
No worries anyway. I did not set out to have a controversial game but by the time I had made my first post trying to start the early exchanges I was already 6 votes down and under fire for drawing arrows (expected) and saying Maradona would get fed up with Cruyff and see him as an arrogant prick (a universal truth in fairness, never expected such a reaction to that).
As I said, neutrals should observe the basic etiquette of leaving the managers to it during the early exchanges and chip in with observations/improvements, not gang up in a tirade. We've spent a whole month playing this, it's not right to jump into it like a feral creature not willing to listen to any arguments from the off.
Anyway, end off, discussed it offline with Fergus', he's got his opinion, I have mine and we'll have to agree to disagree I guess.
I do know I rub people the wrong way during games and it loses me votes, but hey, everyone praises Mourinho for taking the pressure off his players (or just think he is a controversial cnut, like me
).Yeah that's what I expected. I noticed you voted for Anto & fair enough but I disagree about Garrincha, obviously.
No one will answer that question as it's obviously in my interest.
As the Gamemaster I should have the call on that but that would evidently be very controversial!
Would rather Brwned acted as Gamemaster going into the final, I'm never going to be perceived as imaprtial at this stage, whether I'm in it or not (although I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with TITO, cracking chap and he will know I've defended both him and his opponents quite fairly as a neutral).
TITO addressed the balance issue and shored up his defense. He should be winning this IMO. Both great teams though - I think Cutch takes either later on.
Should never have made those subs. My boys could have been in the final by now.
Come on ref! There's still time
Come on ref! There's still time
Not too many good players, everyone will have good players at this stage, the wrong mix. Orchestrators/chefs, same thing. Try get an orchesta working with two chaps leading it, same for a team on a football pitch.
Valdano knew his place in the pecking order, Cruyff doesn't.
Usually, not always. The right better players would be correct.
Should never have made those subs. My boys could have been in the final by now.
Come on ref! There's still time
We're definately into Fergie time now!
All square!!
KM you f**king beauty!!
I love you!
I love you!
KM you sneaky bastard!
You can't honestly believe that? Look at the countless examples of quality players coming into teams where they are unable to shine because of other quality players in their role. Veron at United, Didi at Real Madrid, Overath and Netzer for Germany... the list goes on.
KM I salute you!
Oh feck off Tito, you knocked me out last time.
The subs changed the game for me. I was deliberately keeping my vote till the last moment to see which team I like at the end.
The subs changed the game for me. I was deliberately keeping my vote till the last moment to see which team I like at the end.
So I win
Good game TITO. I shot myself in the foot early on, partly the spaghetti trial to see whether it would ever work in the final (NOT), partly getting tied up in pointless arguments, but your subs helped me back in it
Good game TITO. I shot myself in the foot early on, partly the spaghetti trial to see whether it would ever work in the final (NOT), partly getting tied up in pointless arguments, but your subs helped me back in it
Veron was a brilliant player but it had more to do with him not being suited the the Premier League.
It's different to a Lampard/Gerrard situation. None of my super-stars play in the same position. And anyway, in these sort of fantasy drafts, it's unavoidable. Every team has some kind of clash.
What the hell happens now?
It's 20-20... or did KM make a mistake?So I win
Good game TITO. I shot myself in the foot early on, partly the spaghetti trial to see whether it would ever work in the final (NOT), partly getting tied up in pointless arguments, but your subs helped me back in it
KM I salute you!
Tito is such a nice manager, would be a travesty if he lost this now, like Bobby Robson losing to Mourinho (or some other unscrupulous so and so) !
You have two, arguably three, banned votes to my one (which I only put in there so it didn't look weird!).Antohan: Antohan
TITO: TITO, DanNistelrooy, Jiggs'Hamstring
And there's Jaybezia to boot wanting to change his vote.
I'm confused now. You voted for me right?