Yes?More to the point, is he really going to suddenly learn the positional sense and discipline needed to play midfield at the age of 27?
Yes?More to the point, is he really going to suddenly learn the positional sense and discipline needed to play midfield at the age of 27?
What are these countless games in a midfield three? Unless you're suggesting getting dumped out on the wing is the same as playing centre mid?Rooney has played several games in a midfield-two and countless games in a midfield-three(which isn't THAT much different). And he's already a versatile player. Do you really think it would take him that long to "learn" the positional sense? If so, then I think you underestimate Rooney.
Try againYes?
Why the hell not, Giggs learnt it at 34-35.More to the point, is he really going to suddenly learn the positional sense and discipline needed to play midfield at the age of 27?
True, although not so well if you believe the post-derby match threads.Why the hell not, Giggs learnt it at 34-35.
Sums it up well.Rooney on paper seems to have all the right attributes to play in CM. Drive, passing, good engine, good vision and has a very good shot - so offers an extra goal threat. Positional sense will come quite easily to him.
If SAF plays him there for the remainder of the season, we could then have a better understanding of how he would cope with it in the future. Signs are good though from the little of him playing in a 2 man midfield.
Read the post Chelsea-threads from 2011 and you'll believe he played there very well. Or the year he won POTY in the process of "learning" his new role.True, although not so well if you believe the post-derby match threads.
I seem to remember Rooney playing centrally in a midfield-three(4-5-1)many times over the last 4-5 years. It has obviously not been the norm, but it has happened often enough none the less. I've grown at least mildly accustomed to it, which is why I'm not able to point to any specific games right now. I just thought it was common knowledge that Rooney works really well centrally in a midfield-three... Most peope wouldn't disagree with that. It's whether or not he works in a midfield-two that's the "issue" here. That's the question that divides the fan base.What are these countless games in a midfield three?
Scholes converted from forward to midfielder. Why can't Rooney do it?What are these countless games in a midfield three? Unless you're suggesting getting dumped out on the wing is the same as playing centre mid?
I think it's more likely that you overestimate Rooney.
Try again
It's probably safe to say that Giggs is an exception, not the rule.Read the post Chelsea-threads from 2011 and you'll believe he played there very well. Or the year he won POTY in the process of "learning" his new role.
No reason at all that an intelligent football (rather than intelligent person ) can't learn to play a different role.
Besides them being completed different players, how far into his career was Scholes?Scholes converted from forward to midfielder. Why can't Rooney do it?
Giggs used to be a classical winger who relies on pace and flair. It actually makes much more sense for Rooney to do the transition, seeing as he's always been a versatile fighter who thrives centrally.It's probably safe to say that Giggs is an exception, not the rule.
Nar, there's been plenty of occasions of a player learning a new role down the years. Paul Scholes started as a striker, Chris Sutton as a central defender, Dion Dublin.. a striker who managed to be a pretty handy centre half (a notoriously difficult role in a positional sense to learn).It's probably safe to say that Giggs is an exception, not the rule.
Giggs is the more comparable of them though, having played in one position all his life and then performing in a completely different role. Starting off as this or that isn't really the same.Nar, there's been plenty of occasions of a player learning a new role down the years. Paul Scholes started as a striker, Chris Sutton as a central defender, Dion Dublin.. a striker who managed to be a pretty handy centre half (a notoriously difficult role in a positional sense to learn).
Dublin was in his 30's. And like I said, there are plenty of other examples.Giggs is the more comparable of them though, having played in one position all his life and then performing in a completely different role. Starting off as this or that isn't really the same.
Yeah, but he's not a world class midfielder, and has never been. He's been a world class winger at various times.Why the hell not, Giggs learnt it at 34-35.
More to the point, is he really going to suddenly learn the positional sense and discipline needed to play midfield at the age of 27?
Yes?
I think he wants you to say 'no', Rowem.Try again
Semantics.He is, but he wasn't a striker (Schweinsteiger), Rooney is. Rooney's a goalscorer first and foremost.
He's played as pretty much an attacking midfielder for years, in 2009-10 he was a clear striker but since then he's far deeper. The transition is easier for him than Schweinsteiger or Giggs IMO.He is, but he wasn't a striker (Schweinsteiger), Rooney is. Rooney's a goalscorer first and foremost.
It goes back to the old debate about where Rooney's best position is, which isn't in the hole or AM imo, let alone in CM.He's played as pretty much an attacking midfielder for years, in 2009-10 he was a clear striker but since then he's far deeper. The transition is easier for him than Schweinsteiger or Giggs IMO.
Just because CM might not be Rooney's best position doesn't mean he wouldn't make an excellent CM.It goes back to the old debate about where Rooney's best position is, which isn't in the hole or AM imo, let alone in CM.
I think the odds are heavily in his favor, but that's just my opinion...Rooney may become a good midfielder, but what are the odds he masters the tools needed to be superb in that role?
Mainly for 2 reasons:He's already a world class striker. Why not bring a great midfielder in to complement that?
Aye that's fair enough, either view is reasonable IMO. I think his best football has come from a deeper position, but also his worst, whereas he was just ruthless as a striker. When he's on form I would always want him deeper personally.It goes back to the old debate about where Rooney's best position is, which isn't in the hole or AM imo, let alone in CM.
Not strictly, makes it pretty unlikely though considering the difference of the two.Just because CM might not be Rooney's best position doesn't mean he wouldn't make an excellent CM.
All that remains then is to find some wingers with flair.
Yep. Also, just because attacking midfield isn't Rooney's best position (in Zen's opinion) doesn't mean central midfield won't be. Completely different way of playing. The truth is nobody knows how good he'll be.Just because CM might not be Rooney's best position doesn't mean he wouldn't make an excellent CM.
So unlikely that both SAF and Wayne seem convinced he can excel in that position, plus he played there in our last fixture and won MoM; plus when he played CM before that he also won MoM.Not strictly, makes it pretty unlikely though considering the difference of the two.
Schweinsteiger is a fantastic example of a fantastic midfielder being forced out of position early on his career while he learned the game then going back to his actual position.Schweinsteiger is SUPERB example of an attacking player learning to become one of the best central midfielders in the World when he was already a good bit into his career.
It certainly would, when hes on form I have absolutely no doubt he could do an excellent job there. My concern is what happens when he inevitably ISNT in form, would he suddenly become droppable where as he wasn't before? Do we drop forwards that are in form to move him forward again thereby pissing them off?I hope not but it wouldn't surprise me greatly.
When I see us linked with more strikers its the first thing that comes to mind.
Looking at it from a postive point of view if he successfully managed the transition having a 27 year old, presumably top class player in the centre would be a good thing no?
Yes, why not?It certainly would, when hes on form I have absolutely no doubt he could do an excellent job there. My concern is what happens when he inevitably ISNT in form, would he suddenly become droppable where as he wasn't before?
And in that case I say we've got nothing to loose by giving it a try, he certainly has the tools to do a job there and its not like we are blessed with options.Yes, why not?
SAF's dropped Rooney before and he will do again. The notion that he's undroppable is nonsense.
No, Schweinsteiger was a winger, he only got moved into central midfield to accommodate the Ribery/Robben team.Schweinsteiger is a fantastic example of a fantastic midfielder being forced out of position early on his career while he learned the game then going back to his actual position.
Giggs has played in midfield all his life. Sure it was on the wing but that means you've got to have some positional sense when defending or else you're going to be useless. Forwards have no worries about keeping any lines. So to say that Giggs learned all that so late is ridiculous. He knew what he was doing when he started playing that position.Why the hell not, Giggs learnt it at 34-35.
Rooney has at least as much positional sense as Ryan Giggs. They're both very intelligent footballers who have each demonstrated a superb ability to learn and adapt in the game; I don't think anybody's suggesting that either Giggs had to learn a new position from scratch or that Rooney will have to do so, rather, that there's much evidence to suggest that Rooney, like Giggs, is already in possession of the knowhow, versatility and ability to make the transition. The notion that you can't teach an old dog new tricks bears little relevance in regards to the world's best footballers; most of whom adapt their style of play a number of times over the course of their careers.Giggs has played in midfield all his life. Sure it was on the wing but that means you've got to have some positional sense when defending or else you're going to be useless. Forwards have no worries about keeping any lines. So to say that Giggs learned all that so late is ridiculous. He knew what he was doing when he started playing that position.
Rooney has played a tonne of games as a left midfielder too, and a tonne as an attacking mid, a position where he has needed to have as much sense as Ryan Giggs the flying winger.Giggs has played in midfield all his life. Sure it was on the wing but that means you've got to have some positional sense when defending or else you're going to be useless. Forwards have no worries about keeping any lines. So to say that Giggs learned all that so late is ridiculous. He knew what he was doing when he started playing that position.
You know he played CM yesterday, right?He's not technically astute to be a top class centre midfielder we want and need. Stop begging people. He's a Striker and thats that. It's like assuming Raul and Del Piero could play centre midfield because they had exceptional control and balance for strikers.