He's spot on, Watson's ego is obvious when he looks like he wants to review every time he's out. I always think back to Sachin's 241 at the SCG as an example for batsmen, the mental side of batting is so important, sometimes you need to play within your limitations. Not that Sachin has any but he was struggling at the time and scored 186 runs legside, that shows a lot of mental strength and application. An issue for Australia at the moment is yeah they could drop down Watson to 6 but who will replace him as opener? Another leftie can't be good for balance.
Ashes I - 2013 - In England
- Thread starter ghaliboy
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He's spot on, Watson's ego is obvious when he looks like he wants to review every time he's out. I always think back to Sachin's 241 at the SCG as an example for batsmen, the mental side of batting is so important, sometimes you need to play within your limitations. Not that Sachin has any but he was struggling at the time and scored 186 runs legside, that shows a lot of mental strength and application. An issue for Australia at the moment is yeah they could drop down Watson to 6 but who will replace him as opener? Another leftie can't be good for balance.
You can talk about replacing players all you like but Australia's biggest problem is their players are simply not good enough and they simply aren't producing players who are good enough.
They are giving debuts to guys like Agar who have little to no FC experience. There was a time when their players would not get a debut before they were atleast 25-28 and had had years of FC experience simply because they had so many quality players ahead of them in the test team. Their batters usually had FC averages of atleast 45+. Nowadays guys like Cowan are getting into the side.
Their FC system hasn't produced a top quality batsman since Michaels Hussey and Clarke, and as the old guard have retired one after one the effect is there for all to see.
They are giving debuts to guys like Agar who have little to no FC experience. There was a time when their players would not get a debut before they were atleast 25-28 and had had years of FC experience simply because they had so many quality players ahead of them in the test team. Their batters usually had FC averages of atleast 45+. Nowadays guys like Cowan are getting into the side.
Their FC system hasn't produced a top quality batsman since Michaels Hussey and Clarke, and as the old guard have retired one after one the effect is there for all to see.
It goes in cycles anyway, not long ago England had the likes of Aftab Habib, Usman Afzaal and Ian Ward in their middle order.
The problem with Australia and Agar (not just him but others) is their obsession with replacing Warne. Everyone that comes through is compared to him and 1 bad performance and they're gone again. I saw an article..it might of been on here, about how many spin bowlers they've had since Warne and it's something like 13 with most playing 2 or 3 test matches. There's no way they're going to settle in to a team with such little experience. It's a ridiculous pressure as well, compared to probably the best bowler ever. Agar was helped massively by them runs in the first test but at Lords he didn't threaten at all really. It looks like the batsmen can easily pick him out and play him with no great struggle, Smith looked a bigger threat if anything. They seem to really have panicked with him and chucked him in as a surprise factor, he's far to young and inexperienced to play at test level unless he is something special and he doesn't look like it at the moment.
I think they'll recover eventually, probably not for a few years. I could see this series being 5-0 though I doubt it'd get to the 10-0 with the Oz tour, can't see them losing every game in that 1. But they do need to prepare for the future some what. People have suggested the likes of Katich but I think it's a poor decision really to bring players like that in as they are just stop gaps and you find yourself in the same situation in a years time it is just delaying the inevitable. They need to invest in the future and look at the coaching because there is a risk that they will fall behind. England have improved massively since the late 90s, India are still a great team, South Africa have improved a lot and the likes of Sri Lanka and New Zealand are a threat. If Pakistan get to play games at home as well you could see them improving.
The 20/20 debate is an odd one, I don't see it ever threatening the test game as there is still a huge interest in that side of the sport, I could see it damaging the 50 over stuff more though. If anything it should be used to encourage kids to take up the full form of cricket, ease them in with the 20/20, which in fairness is what it's kind of marketed it when you listen to the commentary on Sky people like David Lloyd will heavily promote other forms rather than just 20/20.
David Warner's brother, escape goat I'm in tears over here.
Oh god.. What a muppet.
Pattinson also out, shit is getting worse.
They are picking the wrong players in a nutshell. Basically there are a myriad of problems and frankly i'm sick and tired of seeing them and wasting my keystrokes trying to discuss them.
From Contract regulations and attitudes, to horses for courses and money. They are selecting more on form/stats rather than identifying that certain players present potential and harvesting them for the long term and moulding into proper test cricketers. In a babushka style second smaller nutshell the players they are picking/favoring are less and less natural cricketers and hard grafters which start off their career on the right peg, and using a 'pick the big muscle dummy athletes and try and make them cricketers. They need to be able to bowl fast, hit sixes and fours and field well' type of weird strategy.
Like I said there is a sea of problems but I reckon there is just way to much red tape there to actually knock it down and rebuild it from the ground up. They are trying though.
edit; Oh and like this Pattinson injury, they no longer risk young players at all and help them 'manage' through their injuries. They just up stumps instantly at the slightest risk of an injury. But to me they do too much weight and impact work and not enough aerobic.
In terms of FC potential; Hartley or Paine should be in there keeping for a start, the Matt Wade experiment absolutely fecking infuriated me beacuse he's always been shit with the gloves and mediocre with the bat. Lord knows how he got picked.. Haddin is experienced but not a good enough gloveman to justify that selection and his batting is very up and down in general. He's a natural hitter suited to short form.
Shaun Marsh and Bailey have always been suited to test cricket. Marsh had a few injuries and a few up and down starts to his test career. Bailey feck knows why is playing T20 and ODI he's absolutely fecking shit house at clubbing the ball. He should definitely at least be there at the moment on call. Jordan Silk is another young lad that should be groomed by CA to play test cricket. Scored a 370 ball hundred in the Shield final. Ferguson got injured at a bad time and Nic Maddinson despite presenting form is a red tape issue since he isn't contracted to CA.
There are players there but they are being told to play as much short form cricket as they can to get a shot at test then being dropped prematurely when they don't perform and adjust quick enough.
Ugh. Like I said there are plenty of red tape issues that are fecking it over at the moment. My suggestion still is (as it was a while back) cut all their endorsements and contracts down to 60k/yr solid wage and give them win bonuses of something silly like 30k, 40k per win.
I bet they fecking start winning games quick smart.
This is a bit embarrassing...can't even bring myself to enjoy an Aussie loss anymore, they look pathetic.
He was beyond terrible in the last game.
Probably been their 2nd or 3rd best batsman though.
What do people think about the calls for Clarke at 3? Personally I think his form is so much better at 5 than 4 that moving him to 3 is just going to highlight that even more.
If England win the OT Test, I think they should look to rest Anderson. No point risking injury to their best bowler with the back-to-back series.
Anyone know if they are they playing ODI's/T20s after the Test matches are over?
Anyone know if they are they playing ODI's/T20s after the Test matches are over?
In my opinion, he should definitely move up the order. He's their best batsman by a mile who can play a patient innings but can also take the attack to the bowlers and dictate the tempo of the game. As it is, he's coming in too low to have a real impact on their batting and, with the top 4 always failing, he's having to do miracles. The side's best batsman should always be coming in at #3 or #4.
If it was my choice, I'd have Clarke at 3, Khawaja at 4 (or other way round but Clarke shouldn't be lower than 4) and Watson at 5. If Hughes is good enough to open then push him up the order or bring in someone else.
There's 2 T20s end of August and then 5 ODIs in September
Yeah, probably cause he was injured
.I think there is stats to prove that Clarke averages 50+ at 5 and 30 and below at 2, 3, and 4.
He needs to stay at 5. Watson at 6, Khawaja at 4 and someone grafty in at 3.
The problem is that Clarke is to technically correct to face the new ball with it's tail up. Early in his innings he plants the front foot and plays straight and more often than not he knicks.
Really it's the rest of the team that need to galvanism. It's like saying Pirlo get's goals from deep so we should play him in the hole and play some lucas ball winners behind him. We'll score lots! But in essence if they can get a couple of solid batsman to just not get out then they will go 3/4 of the way to solving the problem. The top order is way to dismissable, playing stupid shots and being lead to the slaughter giving away their wicket.
I can't find the genuine stats but like I said above. He has a woeful average batting anywhere but 5. Probably because he scored those 1200 runs batting at five but I still maintain that while he can bat 3 or bat under pressure he's vulnerable to the new ball and swing outside the off stump. Especially if he reverts back to the problem he had where he'd go forward but collapse his front leg trying to work the ball and get LBW a lot.
Phil Hughes isn't good enough to open in grade cricket. Should not be there period. Watson should be the new all-rounder at 6 and shut the feck up and cop it. He could save himself in the sheds and bowl a bit more if he wants.
Anyone who thinks 20-20 isn't a threat to Test Cricket lives in their own work at this point. Test Cricket is unsustainable and the money of 20-20 is taking over in most countries, you only have to look at what is happening in Australia to see how bad things have gotten. As for attracting kids to Cricket, well sure but it's not attracting them to Tests, it's attracting them to 20-20 mostly.
As for Australia coming back, they won't, I've already said they're foundation is completely and utterly fecked and nothing is being done about it. For the last time this isn't some fecking cycle! First Class Cricket is an afterthought there, it's all about the BBL going forward.
As for Australia coming back, they won't, I've already said they're foundation is completely and utterly fecked and nothing is being done about it. For the last time this isn't some fecking cycle! First Class Cricket is an afterthought there, it's all about the BBL going forward.
Shut up.
Everyone's argued with you enough and no one cares about your opinion anymore. You've not bought anything new to the debate since you started it 37 pages ago.
Everyone's argued with you enough and no one cares about your opinion anymore. You've not bought anything new to the debate since you started it 37 pages ago.
Warner just got 193 for Aus A against South Africa A, imagine he will be back in the side sharpish.
I think Tim Paine is an excellent batsman. Unfortunately got injured, but I think he's better than Haddin and Wade. Plays spin well.
Good wicket-keeper, too.
Marsh always looked a good batsman, but inconsistent.
Good wicket-keeper, too.
Marsh always looked a good batsman, but inconsistent.
Great counterargument
To be fair it isn't like anyone else has bought anything new to the debate aside from the old chestnuts "oh it's just like a cycle" and "Test Cricket won't die because you know because I don't want it too". Some people have different ways with dealing with the truth I guess.
On topic Paine isn't an excellent batsman, zing, even for a keeper.
Broke his hand, word is that his hand is royally fecked and he can hardly hold a bat anymore. Which is a shame because he was looking pretty promising. I think Hartley has the best glovework out of all of them but he's not the strongest batsman plus he's not contracted to CA so there is little chance of him getting a call up.
So who do people think should replace Pieterson if he isn't fit in time? Taylor looks like the favourite but from what I'm reading Bopara, Morgan and Ballance have a chance, likewise Compton but I doubt we would move Root back down the order after his 180.
John Morris circa 1990. Would be brilliant.
Taylor is in the Sussex team that will play Aus this weekend, so he is the clear favourite to replace Pietersen if he is injured.
Personally rate Taylor higher than Bairstow despite their respective performances against South Africa last year. Taylor has some faults but I could see him likelier to have get high scores on board than Bairstow.
Personally rate Taylor higher than Bairstow despite their respective performances against South Africa last year. Taylor has some faults but I could see him likelier to have get high scores on board than Bairstow.
Don't want Bopara in the team. He's had many chances with the test team and apparently he is out until late August injured anyway.
Or, risk an extra bowler? Old Trafford is turning plenty.
The thing that really annoys me is that Warner gets dropped (displaced, moved whatever) from the team and they send him to fecking South Africa on an absolute desert road he goes the slog and scores 190 and suddenly 'WARNER IS BACK! BRING HIM BACK'. It's fecking infuriating.
Why send these guys to 'regain form' on fecking roads. Australia has already been crippled by ODI sloggers who love a hard dry surface to tee off on in the test arena that countries now are preparing more and more toilet decks for test cricket. I am not having a moan because I think every batsman in the world should have the attitude of "You know what, bring it on. feck the conditions I wanna bat time if its tough out there and grind out a hundred" and it seems like these Australian's attitudes are more along the lines of "feck it, I'm gonna get on the front stool and club the feck out of the ball no matter what it's doing". None of them can really preserve their wicket at all in the middle. If you get out from good bowling you go 'fair play, I was genuinely dismissed' but half of these dismissals are just poor shots or poor concentration.
Watch Warner come back into the Ashes (if he does) and get cleaned up for feck all against the swinging ball. CA do some mindboggling things sometimes. I say we move our domestic shield cricket to Massachusetts and prepare a bunch of terrible pitches for these youngsters to play on for the next 10 years.
edit: That rant kind of originated on a bit of a misquote.
Or get rid of the fecking woeful Kookaburra ball and use a Duke one that swings for longer than about 1 over.
Sounds like Warner is in trouble again. On field argument with the South Africa A keeper, had to be seperated by the umpires on two occasions.
I see they've dropped Finn for the third test. If that's for the injury then fair enough but if that's for form, then it's a moronic decision IMO.
Taylor, Panesar & Tremlett added to the squad, Pietersen still included, Finn & Onions dropped.
Walked past James Taylor at Uni, he's absolutely tiny.
A lot of batsmen are, the likes of KP are the exception.
He's like ridiculously small must be 5'5" or summat.
Dry, abrasive turner then
He's 5'6"
What on earth has Tremlett done to earn a call up, just because he's played well in a few tests a while ago, new call ups should be based on current form, Finn should have retained his place. Taylor is a great pick. If your picking a new bowler why not go for a youngster, say Toby Roland-Jones?
I reckon Tremlett is more of a psychological pick, he did a lot of damage to the Aussies in the last Ashes, I think it very unlikely he'll play. If they play an extra bowler it was always going to be Panesar IMO, lots of turn at Old Trafford this season.
I'd pick Tremlett, he hasn't been playing badly for Surrey and he is the type of player that the Aussies won't want to face. Finn and Broad are the bowlers the Aussies are most comfortable against. Either way he isn't going to play unless there is an injury to one of the main three seamers.
Can completely understand why Finn is dropped though. Cook just doesn't trust him. If you go at over 4 an over and you only have 4 bowlers in the team then you can't really play.
Can completely understand why Finn is dropped though. Cook just doesn't trust him. If you go at over 4 an over and you only have 4 bowlers in the team then you can't really play.
I hope we get the Ashes won at Old Trafford, but I don't hold out much hope, rain is forecast on 3 out of the 5 days and Monday is forecast Thunderstorms.
