For all the talk about Iso's unbalanced side it's Sócrates who seems to be the one here who is a passenger, IMO. And I'm not convinced Sammer-McGrath is a great partnership so overall I'd say the defences are roughly even. It's just whether Maradona, Baggio and Iniesta can work some magic between them to overwhelm Deschamps and co. or if Ronaldo can simply tear apart Krol + Moore...not an easy call for me. Though Neuer against Zoff may be tipping it in VP's favour. One thing's for sure, Van Nistelrooy will have no hair left after playing 90 minutes with Gento and Ronaldo!
Decades Draft Tournament : VP vs Isotope
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
That's my initial plan, picking Iniesta. But then I got the chance to pick Baggio (just can't let him pass. I'm weak). So, my thinking is, Iniesta is the most likely to do defensive duty and pressing in midfield; and I prefer Baggio and Maradona to have more freedom and more attacking.
He might tell Ronaldo to go cry to his 'dad'. They both are/were world class who prefer to be 'served'. But who knows really.Thanks, mate.Congrats mate
Not sure what the suggested rejig does, I reckon you would still play the game the exact same way as before. Iniesta going wide/inside left for much of the game, Baggio as a 9 1/2 behind Shevchenko and Maradona doing whatever the feck he wants but with more space to operate down the right.
Maybe it makes it clearer that your midfield makes Scholes and Socrates rather redundant, but I was seeing that already.
Exactly, that formation is actually the same as on the OP. But, I remember you said that how you arrange your formation does count; the last one look more frightening in attack.
Congrats Iso!!
I agree on Iniesta being the one who should exploit the space on the left and I assume he is doing that already in the current setup. I do like the notional midfield role though in the sense that when possession is lost he will contribute to midfield.
Basically when I look at Iso's current setup this is what I imagine:
IN POSESSION:
WHEN LOSING IT AND TRYING TO RECOVER:
Makelele's role is not to deal with Socrates or Scholes but to leave those two to Coluna and Iniesta while he helps shore up the defence if either fullback is beaten and requires cover from their CB. Differently from the no-width brigade, I'd argue Iso would be better off with Leandro and Krol not being too adventurous, certainly not at the same time.
If we are talking counter, I wouldn't fancy facing Maradona and Baggio receiving in space with Sheva in acres of space. I reckon VPs defence is indeed better but I'm increasingly convinced Iso would score more here.
Has Matthias Sammer ever played in a back 4?
He played his best football with Dortmund and Germany from about 95-98 as a sweeper in a 3-5-2 formation. Otherwise i only remember him as a box to box midfielder
He played his best football with Dortmund and Germany from about 95-98 as a sweeper in a 3-5-2 formation. Otherwise i only remember him as a box to box midfielder
Hey, thanks mate. I'm so happy right now, feels like I don't mind at all VP to win this game
. In fairness, VP has a good team, and if his win, it deserves it; but so is mine.I'm here posting just because of my arguing nature
this has turned around while VP is sleeping
Fair point, forgot he was in a different time zone. It's not like we've been attacking his side though, more a case of working out how Iso's would work.
It is often the case that one side needs a bit more exploring before it is fully appreciated.
Your attack is frightening enough, it's how you will deal with his attack that is more worrying. Neither defence is among the best in the draft, but yours is a mindfeck to work out. It may just be me having an irrational dislike for Leandro though as no one else seems to have as much of an issue with it.
VP hasn't sold his side well at all IMO with his formation picture, just looks like Deschamps is stood on his own against Maradona/Baggio/Iniesta
Brwned saying Socrates is passenger supports that as well, he should have been drifting around that space in front of the defence and stopping Makelele covering for the fullbacks or dropping into the defence but that hasn't come across well IMO
Brwned saying Socrates is passenger supports that as well, he should have been drifting around that space in front of the defence and stopping Makelele covering for the fullbacks or dropping into the defence but that hasn't come across well IMO
I don't think there is anything wrong with Sammer/McGrath either, with a lesser partner it could have been an issue but McGrath is a beast
I'm inclined to think the same. Sammer with a more one-dimensional CB could have been an issue but McGrath should be a good foil.
Yup
I don't think the level of discussion has been great in this draft yet tbh, VP should have just dropped Scholes back next to Deschamps and said he is repeatedly pinging balls out to Ronaldo and Gento all game. Just keep banging on about that and its clear as day that it will result in goals
I don't think the level of discussion has been great in this draft yet tbh, VP should have just dropped Scholes back next to Deschamps and said he is repeatedly pinging balls out to Ronaldo and Gento all game. Just keep banging on about that and its clear as day that it will result in goals
While I agree Scholes should be deeper, it's all very reliant on him. He would be right in Maradona and Coluna territory, and neither will give him much -if any- time on the ball. Maradona won't just be active because he does it, he will also do it more than usual because it presents him with opportunities: anyone searching for Scholes as the outball will be risking handing it back on a plate for Diego
Wipe out Scholes and VPs service is massively compromised. Deschamps wasn't bad at all, but it certainly isn't the same.
Wipe out Scholes and VPs service is massively compromised. Deschamps wasn't bad at all, but it certainly isn't the same.
I don't see a huge issue there to be fair because Scholes was so good in possession he can ride out any pressure really unless it really is a world class ball winner.
Maradona is too far up the pitch to be bothering Scholes too much I reckon, if he keeps coming deep and central that is exactly the situation we all spoke about i.e a cluster feck.
I dunno really, Iso has the makings of a good side but he needs to palm off Baggio if he goes through and grab a right winger. Stick Diego central in the areas you are talking about and its a great team. It's unquestionably mish mash at the moment though but maybe his players will get through and he can sort it out next round
Maradona is too far up the pitch to be bothering Scholes too much I reckon, if he keeps coming deep and central that is exactly the situation we all spoke about i.e a cluster feck.
I dunno really, Iso has the makings of a good side but he needs to palm off Baggio if he goes through and grab a right winger. Stick Diego central in the areas you are talking about and its a great team. It's unquestionably mish mash at the moment though but maybe his players will get through and he can sort it out next round
Maradona is being treated like a glorified B grade player here.
To stop him impacting the game you either need someone to stick to him like a leech and be his shadow or someone intelligent enough to read all his ideas and stop him creating chances. He ripped Baresi at his prime to shreds playing for Napoli, there's no way he can be stopped here. As much as I like Sammer and Mcgrath, they have got no chance!
To stop him impacting the game you either need someone to stick to him like a leech and be his shadow or someone intelligent enough to read all his ideas and stop him creating chances. He ripped Baresi at his prime to shreds playing for Napoli, there's no way he can be stopped here. As much as I like Sammer and Mcgrath, they have got no chance!
Am I reading this right? Theon "I am sure great players will work out a way to play in the same area" Greyjoy saying that?
Where has that happened?
All I can see is people saying he isn't in a system that is getting the best out of him. Or do you disagree?
What are you talking aboutAm I reading this right? Theon "I am sure great players will work out a way to play in the same area" Greyjoy saying that?
If you're on about Xavi and Pirlo playing in the same team that is absolutely nothing like Baggio/Iniesta/Maradona playing in the same side.
Mental.
It's not even a big overlap. Coluna's playing deep and Iniesta's taking care of the left wing, it is crystal clear how those two will work which leaves Baggio and Maradona the entire area behind the striker and the right wing to themselves to operate. Not a problem.
Sure a proper right winger would have been ideal to this but I don't see the current setup a hindrance! Specially considering the opposition defense which has got no chance to stop them.
Sure a proper right winger would have been ideal to this but I don't see the current setup a hindrance! Specially considering the opposition defense which has got no chance to stop them.
It isn't, but you are going against your own words. Xavi and Pirlo together won't bring the best out of either of them, which is your point with Maradona here, so if you believe that will work, so will this.What are you talking about
If you're on about Xavi and Pirlo playing in the same team that is absolutely nothing like Baggio/Iniesta/Maradona playing in the same side.
Mental.
It is getting the best out of Maradona, the person it is not getting the best out of is Baggio, he has nothing to provide that the rest cannot. Maradona is doing just fine.
How is Iniesta taking care of the left wing there
Have you even read the thread?
I suggested Iniesta goes left and Iso said he is central because..
Even Sheva and Baggio are relatively are relatively similar to each other!
If Scholes drops deep alongside Deschamps then surely he is not just standing around but trying to zonal mark Maradona, which in turn means when the ball is recovered Maradona won't be far off him and will at least hassle him, if not intercept a ball from someone trying to pass to Scholes for him to provide the outball.
If Scholes moves further up the pitch to escape Maradona's attention then he finds Coluna taking him on. Of course he will ping some very good balls every now and then anyway, but you almost depicted it as Scholes pinging balls for fun when I don't see that happening at all. When a side is so reliant on one player for the outball you can bet you left nut that guy won't be fannying around under no pressure.
Sammer coming out of defence could help with that, mind. That's another reason I preferred him on Maradona's side. It's all a bit academic though as currently Scholes and Socrates are stranded in no man's land.
I think Xavi and Pirlo will work fine, I don't see an issue with two possession footballers who play in different areas of the pitch playing together. I think they would love it.
Three number 10's in the same team is a different thing altogether.
I know. It's mental the discussion has gone this way.Except Iniesta isn't even a traditional number 10! Has he played his career camping behind the striker doing nothing but threading in balls? No. He has played enough on the left and has been world class in that position. Maradona has a well rounded skillset himself to occupy multiple areas on the pitch. As I said the only guy I don't agree at all in this setup is Baggio, not sure why Iso picked him ever. He's totally redundant here. But I don't see that reducing Maradona's impact at all.
Oh definitely Anto, I didn't mean to give that impression.
My point was just that Scholes pinging balls out is absolutely the main tactic for that side.
Scholes picks it up, looks up and sweeps it out wide to Ronaldo or Gento. Rinse and repeat.
"Just fine" isnt really Maradona at his brilliant best though, Baggio and Maradona will be getting in each others way from what I can see, and that will affect the both of them to varying extents.
I can't see VP's front 3 working together. To get the best out of Ruud or Cristiano, you need the team built around them to feed them. Isotope's front 3 on the other hand, I can visualise.
If he sets up like this
------------- Sheva -----------
Iniesta- Maradona - Baggio
Then yeah, Baggio is the only one not thriving as he's shifted out on the right. He hasnt done that though, look at the tactic. They are all central playing some sort of roaming game - its a cluster feck and that isn't going to get the best out of Maradona, or anyone in that congested area.
Maradona will be fine in any setup where he gets to see a lot of the ball, which is exactly what is happening here.
Baggio has been as finely retrofitted as was possible, but is largely unnecessary. I think we all agree on that. You can bank on him grabbing the winner now
What makes you think Maradona won't be at his "brilliant best"? Because Baggio is somewhere in the same area? In that famous thrashing of Sacchi's Milan Maradona played predominantly on the right attacking a young Maldini and tore them to shreds, he can easily do that here and that is also him at his "brilliant best". He scored the goal of the century while running past a whole defense from the right flank.
Maradona has never been restricted by having another player wanting to play in his position. If Baggio really needs to play in the middle, Maradona will happily go to the right and tear VP's team a new one, or else Baggio will be sacrificed, which I've pointed out already.
So what do you envisage Baggio actually doing, standing out of the way? Passing to Maradona every time? It's an odd circumstance.
Iniesta should've just started on the left to avoid convoluted tactical descriptions (none from iso explain it really well, gio and Anto have gone furthest).
Exactly. He's right in the thick of things and running the show. And the opposition has no answer to it.Maradona will be fine in any setup where he gets to see a lot of the ball, which is exactly what is happening here.
Baggio has been as finely retrofitted as was possible, but is largely unnecessary. I think we all agree on that. You can bank on him grabbing the winner now
He is wasted clearly IMO
Baggio wants the ball but Maradona is apparently seeing all of it.
I don't think it will come to that. Baggio can play as an inside right sort of role decently. Who cares if Baggio is not at his best if it means Diego Maradona getting what he needs? That's the point. About Iniesta, it is obvious, at least to me, that his natural tendency is to move leftwards.