Fantasy Tournament: World Cup All-Time All-Stars

[crappycraperson]

I'm pretty happy to be facing a crap team.

Heh shit joke.

I was thinking the same

 

[Moby]

For Maradona, you always have Gentile

I can see the point re: Stiles though.

Ah yes, how did I forget.

Yeah I might change it back to Hidegkuti. I'll think a tad more on it.

BTW why do we have a 2 week gap between now and the matches? Christmas/New Year or some other reason?

 

[Balu]

BTW why do we have a 2 week gap between now and the matches? Christmas/New Year or some other reason?

I think it's because of Christmas. I wouldn't mind playing my game between Christmas and New Year though (27th - 30th), but I don't know how many people will be on the Caf during that time?

 

[Moby]

Hmm ya fair enough.

 

[antohan]

I'm off 27/12 to 15/1, only back at some point between 7-9th for any unresolved stuff so having game 4 suits me really well!

 

[Thisistheone]

So mine would be this direction?

Yeah, I believe so. Will get mine up here later on today hopefully.

 

[Balu]

No need to hurry, still 2 weeks to go and that above isn't my final team yet. Still thinking about playing Schwarzenbeck instead of de Boer.

 

[Cal?]

Anyone want to suggest who I should bench?

 

[antohan]

Just to make it easier to assess the pairings (not an invitation to start debates better left for the games!):

Rpitroda vs Cutch: will be close this, rpitroda is pretty solid and lucky to be facing no wingers, while Cutch has been hampered by the pre-70 debacle.

Balu/NM vs TITO: Looks like a classic flanks vs. midfield battle meltdown in the making. Not sure how TITO will setup but he seems to have no intention of letting Balu have much of the ball

Theon vs Gio: One of two games the rest of us are grateful to see them knocking each other out! Will be interesting to see Theon arguing against Xavi

Jayvin vs Anto: Anto, obviously, despite being severely hampered by the choice of this11 ruling out his awesome puzzles.

Cal vs Desert: I have absolutely no idea how either is going to set up, an uber attacking midfield vs. an uber defensive midfield? At least we will settle this Messi vs. Ronaldo stuff for good.

Crappy/Pippa vs Paceme: crappy looks solid, paceme could do with inverting the position of every one of his players.

Fergus vs Annah: sorry Annah but this is the one game I see a clear winner. Unlucky to draw him really.

Pol vs Aldo: Bloodshed, literally, can see a couple of Aldo's men being sent off in the modern game, or Maradona being injured and having no subs to resort to in the old days.

Final list of players

Pol 1. Maradona 2. P. Maldini 3. Breitner 4. Zizinho 5. Boniek 6. Ocwirk 7. Zito 8. Ferdinand 9. Cohen 10. Careca 11. Gregg 12. Maspoli
Cal 1. Pelé 2. Sándor Kocsis 3. Gérson 4. Blanc 5. Overath 6. Cristiano Ronaldo 7. Lev Yashin 8. Lúcio 9. Leandro 10. Grosso 11. Sneijder 12. Luis Cubilla
Aldo 1. Garrincha 2. Romário 3. Scirea 4. Gentile 5. Kempes 6. Ballack 7. Lizarazu 8. Burgnich 9. Hidegkuti 10. Danilo 11. Stiles 12. Escuti
Theon 1. Beckenbauer 2. Zico 3. Baggio 4. Kohler 5. R. Carlos 6. Socrates 7. Andrade 8. Van Hanegem 9. Maier 10. Piola 11. Rattin 12. Geoff Hurst
Rpitroda 1. Zidane 2. Masopust 3. Varela 4. Desailly 5. Batistuta 6. Nasazzi 7. Figo 8. Zoff 9. Eyzaguirre 10. Hagi 11. Marinho Chagas 12. František Plánička
Paceme 1. Platini 2. Rijkaard 3. Djalma Santos 4. Thuram 5. Tigana 6. Ademir 7. Cabrini 8. C. Maldini 9. Clodoaldo 10. Voronin 11. Jair 12. Taffarel
Jayvin 1. Ronaldo 2. Cannavaro 3. Rivaldo 4. Brehme 5. Vieira 6. Coluna 7. Schiaffino 8. Kahn 9. Julinho 10. Mauro Ramos 11. Buzánszky 12. Szymaniak
Desert 1.Moore 2. Meazza 3. Passarella 4. Busquets 5. Makélélé 6. Pirlo 7. Messi 8. Caniggia 9.Branco 10. Grosics 11. Novak 12. Altafini
Annah 1. Didi 2. Iniesta 3. Ronaldinho 4. Stoichkov 5. Leonidas 6. Lahm 7. Vicente Lucas 8. Bellini 9. Stam 10. Zambrotta 11. Carrizo 12. Gerets
Crappy/Pippa 1. Fontaine 2. Krol 3. Kopa 4. Vogts 5. Dunga 6. Ruggeri 7. Tarantini 8. Leonel Sanchez 9. Mauro Silva 10. Ricardo Zamora 11. Hamrin 12. Buffon
Fergus 1. Matthäus 2. Falcao 3. Rivelino 4. Nilton Santos 5. Karlheinz Förster 6. Chumpitaz 7. Tostao 8. Manuel Amoros 9. Banks 10. Rummenigge 11. Klinsmann 12. Preud’homme
Balu 1. Cruyff 2. Jairzinho 3. Carlos Alberto 4. Davids 5. Silvio Marzolini 6. Frank de Boer 7. Forlan 8. Gilmar 9. Ceulemans 10. Haan 11. Schwarzenbeck 12. Willi Schulz
Anto 1. Puskas 2. Neeskens 3. Bozsik 4. Czibor 5. Ghiggia 6. Junior 7. Mazurkiewicz 8. Gamarra 9. Seeler 10. Chilavert 11. Carvalho 12. Rodríguez Andrade
Gio. 1. Eusebio 2. Figueroa 3. Laudrup 4. Xavi 5. Keane 6. Da Guia 7. Briegel 8. Lato 9. Zagallo 10. Jorginho 11. Roma 12. Fillol
Cutch 1. Müller 2. Facchetti 3. Cafu 4. Santamaría 5. Cubillas 6. Bergomi 7. Monti 8. Nesta 9. F Albert 10. F Walter 11. Goycochea 12. Ayala
TITO 1. Charlton 2. Baresi 3. Schnellinger 4. Zanetti 5. Tardelli 6. Paolo Rossi 7. Perfumo 8. Vavá 9. Gascoigne 10. Cerezo 11. Carbajal 12. Asamoah

 

[antohan]

Anyone want to suggest who I should bench?

A great curveball would be benching Cristiano and making the enitre thing about how Messi shouldn't be there

I'm clear on your back five, clear that Kocsis starts upfront, Cubilla right, Pelé absolutely has to be central, fecking criminal not to... which leaves Gerson-Overath in midfield IMO, never Gerson-Sneijder, I didn't get that pick at all unless it was to play him left instead of Cristiano, in which case you may as well have picked Conti. Or a Schweini, as you said.

TBH, the way you have drafted I would play Cristiano and bench Sneijder, but you should have picked neither considering the players available and the rest of your personnel.

Either way, who you should or shouldn't have picked is a closed chapter, the question now is whether the side you put together can win the game or not.

 

[crappycraperson]

Interesting summary. I disagree with you about Anna. Didi, Iniesta, Ronaldinhio axis would be very strong.

 

[antohan]

Interesting summary. I disagree with you about Anna. Didi, Iniesta, Ronaldinhio axis would be very strong.

Oh, he does have some good stuff going on, don't get me wrong but Fergus has picked solidly from back to front, it's pretty flawless for a post-first draft stage.

It may sound harsh, but I truly have no idea how the other games will go. It's probably the most finely balanced set of first round games I've seen. That's the odd one out IMO, which is just that, my opinion. That said, I've been known to win games no one gave me a hope in hell in (Gio would know!) so I would just stay focused on how to go about it, I certainly haven't done any sort of in-depth assessment.

WELBECK!

 

[Cal?]

A great curveball would be benching Cristiano and making the enitre thing about how Messi shouldn't be there

I'm clear on your back five, clear that Kocsis starts upfront, Cubilla right, Pelé absolutely has to be central, fecking criminal not to... which leaves Gerson-Overath in midfield IMO, never Gerson-Sneijder, I didn't get that pick at all unless it was to play him left instead of Cristiano, in which case you may as well have picked Conti. Or a Schweini, as you said.

TBH, the way you have drafted I would play Cristiano and bench Sneijder, but you should have picked neither considering the players available and the rest of your personnel.

Either way, who you should or shouldn't have picked is a closed chapter, the question now is whether the side you put together can win the game or not.

I'm setting it up to play the zombie passing in Sir Alex's final seasons, great defenders and great attackers with very little in the middle.

 

[Moby]

You are damn right about my game, anto. Burgnich and Gentile will make sure Diego doesn't end the game in one piece.

 

[Thisistheone]

Theon vs Gio: One of two games the rest of us are grateful to see them knocking each other out! Will be interesting to see Theon arguing against Xavi

Will be a quality match. Two heavyweights.

 

[Polaroid]

@Polaroid
Could you edit the final draft list with all the players into the op, so that we don't have to look through the pages to find it? It's not that big a problem, but it would be helpful, I guess.

Updated final draft list in OP
Fergus is the popular favourite
Intriguing match-ups around, tough draw for me

 

[antohan]

Heads up, I've updated the team profile with this clip that took me a fair bit of time to collate from various sources. It is a pretty good summary I put together of Chilavert's and Paraguay's campaign.

Couldn't be arsed to track Gamarra tackles/clearances/interceptions but added a fair chunk of the last 15mins of ET against France to get the prevailing vibe and mood. It was truly epic stuff. I wonder whether it was the same for everyone else or just a game everyone overlooked assuming France would be fine. With no Uruguay at the WC maybe I was paying a lot more attention?

If anything, watch it for the blast from the past: Stoichkov, Luis Enrique, Raul, Kanu, Taribo West! and that French team in a spot of bother of course.



BTW, no one commented on my montages. I'm not Top, but I will never be one without encouragement!

 

[Fergus' son]

Will be a quality match. Two heavyweights.

I think one team is better than the other by a relatively significant margin.

Heads up, I've updated the team profile with this clip that took me a fair bit of time to collate from various sources. It is a pretty good summary I put together of Chilavert's and Paraguay's campaign.

Couldn't be arsed to track Gamarra tackles/clearances/interceptions but added a fair chunk of the last 15mins of ET against France to get the prevailing vibe and mood. It was truly epic stuff. I wonder whether it was the same for everyone else or just a game everyone overlooked assuming France would be fine. With no Uruguay at the WC maybe I was paying a lot more attention?

If anything, watch it for the blast from the past: Stoichkov, Luis Enrique, Raul, Kanu, Taribo West! and that French team in a spot of bother of course.



BTW, no one commented on my montages. I'm not Top, but I will never be one without encouragement!

Haven't had a chance to read through any of your write ups so far, but am looking forward to doing so.

Great pics though!

 

[Gio]

I think it's because of Christmas. I wouldn't mind playing my game between Christmas and New Year though (27th - 30th), but I don't know how many people will be on the Caf during that time?

I'd be happy with going ahead sooner rather than later, on the basis I'm on holiday for the next 2 weeks, but after new year will be back in work and have less access to the Caf. Not a biggie, but there might be a way to manage the fixtures to keep some momentum through the next 2 weeks.

Not arsed about the footballuser or this11 debate - happy to let managers decide as they see fit.

 

[Moby]

I'm also happier in playing sooner than waiting for 2 weeks

 

[Gio]

Jayvin vs Anto

Tough decision - I'll be having a wank about both Jayvin's Brazilian front two and Anto's big-breasted Paraguayan groupies.

 

[Theon]

I'd be happy with going ahead sooner rather than later, on the basis I'm on holiday for the next 2 weeks, but after new year will be back in work and have less access to the Caf. Not a biggie, but there might be a way to manage the fixtures to keep some momentum through the next 2 weeks.

I'm happy to do that Gio if its easier for you. Obviously we'll need to plan it right and get it around Christmas but before the New Year is okay with me

 

[Polaroid]

Any teams that wish to bring forward their match just let me know the date

 

[Cutch]

Would like mine brought forward too if possible as I'm off the next 2 weeks doin sweet FA

 

[Theon]

Worst draw absolutely for me. I'm effectively out.

Nah you're definitely not.

It was an awful draw for both of you though. I think you've both got one of the top 5 teams so its unlucky one of you will go out. But at the moment its a 50/50 and you have just as much of a shot at going through, I think.

Same with Annah, he's got a great chance of getting through IMO - Iniesta/Stoichkov/Ronaldinho/Leonidas is a brilliant attack, then Didi pulling the strings in midfield as well.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Happy to see you guys understand my team and creds to you guys for knowing about Leonidas. I think I have a great shot if the voter knows about Leonidas - if not - then I am in trouble. He is my teams best player after Didi so hopefully they'll know him/Take the time to learn about him.

Not going to be aggressive in the draft, hopefully Fergus will keep it calm as well I am not sure how he is usually. These drafts are always best when they are more about focus on ones own players and trying to educate the public on them by showing your research etc.

 

[Balu]

Just to make it easier to assess the pairings (not an invitation to start debates better left for the games!):

How do you not start debates better left for the games when you give your opinion loud and clear about games, ffs . It completely sucks for the managers because they could feel the need to react to your comments in some cases. Completely disagree about the Fergus - Annah match. Annah has some serious quality in the team, I don't know all his players that well, so he probably has a bit of work to do to convince the voters and Fergus has a brilliant core in his team, but it's as open as every other match, imo. It's just a huge clash of completely different styles.

 

[Polaroid]

Any teams that wish to bring forward their match just let me know the date

If anyone wishes to bring forward their match, agree on a date with your opponent then let me know and I will make the necessary arrangements

 

[Gio]

Given the dearth of top wingers this is the one that I find outrageous:

Really surprised he didn't go, particularly for those who had Bergomi or Gentille. He was one of the best players in '82 and I had him in a top tier of World Cup wingers alongside Garrincha, Jairzinho and Lato.

 

[Moby]

I had no use for him with Garrincha in the team.

 

[crappycraperson]

Really surprised he didn't go, particularly for those who had Bergomi or Gentille. He was one of the best players in '82 and I had him in a top tier of World Cup wingers alongside Garrincha, Jairzinho and Lato.

I considered him as well but restrictions meant it could not be

 

[Gio]

Aye, as a post-72 European winner, he did suffer badly with the restrictions.

 

[Gio]

I think it's because of Christmas. I wouldn't mind playing my game between Christmas and New Year though (27th - 30th), but I don't know how many people will be on the Caf during that time?

Yeah I'd be happy around then but think we'd need to agree at least a couple of games to move forward, otherwise they could be sitting off in isolation from the rest of the tourney and might not generate much interest.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I wouldn't mind having my game earlier as well if you'd like it Fergus.

 

[Gio]

On the whole I think the managers have drafted very astutely. A few players I'm surprised didn't make the cut are:

Kalz, Bossis, Campbell, McGrath, Walker, Zmuda, Lechkov, Burruchaga, Deschamps, Rahn, Finney, Conti, Michel, Rep, Corbatta, Riquelme, Sarosi, Scarone, Orsi, Rahn, Scillachi, Villa, Vieri and Lineker.

In saying that there was a lot of depth in certain positions (striker and centre-half in particular) and a lot of folk were looking for wide players under restrictions, having already shot their load on the pizzazz through the middle.

It's probably a famous quote but I had never come across it before:

"Look at that little fat chap. We'll murder this lot."

-England player on Puskas, before the game at Wembley

It's always been that watershed moment. England's record at Wembley gone and grandiose delusions of still leading the world at football demolished, all within the space of 90 minutes.

 

[Moby]

Deschamps not being picked is a joke.

Bossis is another underrated name. Was absolutely class in 82 and 86. There's no reason that Amoros should be picked and not Bossis. In fact I would say he overall was better than Amoros. Amoros was amazing against Brazil but in the other games Bossis performed better.

 

[Thisistheone]

On the whole I think the managers have drafted very astutely. A few players I'm surprised didn't make the cut are:

Kalz, Bossis, Campbell, McGrath, Walker, Zmuda, Lechkov, Burruchaga, Deschamps, Rahn, Finney, Conti, Michel, Rep, Corbatta, Riquelme, Sarosi, Scarone, Orsi, Rahn, Scillachi, Villa, Vieri and Lineker.

In saying that there was a lot of depth in certain positions (striker and centre-half in particular) and a lot of folk were looking for wide players under restrictions, having already shot their load on the pizzazz through the middle.

It's always been that watershed moment. England's record at Wembley gone and grandiose delusions of still leading the world at football demolished, all within the space of 90 minutes.

Some huge names there. Des Walker was a quality centre back in his day. Safe to say most people's sides would look a lot different if the restrictions weren't in place.

 

[Gio]

Deschamps not being picked is a joke.

Bossis is another underrated name. Was absolutely class in 82 and 86. There's no reason that Amoros should be picked and not Bossis. In fact I would say he overall was better than Amoros. Amoros was amazing against Brazil but in the other games Bossis performed better.

Much of France's success in 1998 was founded on the qualities that Deschamps offered - defensive robustness, graft, self-sacrifice - and he was at the heart of it all in the engine room.

And yes Bossis is a class act, a surprising omission. One of the select few of full-backs who were adept in the centre or at sweeper, showcasing their defensive nous and organisation. And he was very classy on the ball.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I love that fact about these drafts, it is hard to just pick the "best" 11 players you had available when there are limitations and rules.

There was a huge shortage of wingers/left backs and everybody had to react accordingly. Some went with winger-less formations and therefore went for wing-backs early and others picked the few top wingers around early.

In the all time draft there is so much more depth in every position and it makes it a lot less interesting.

 

[Fergus' son]

Happy to see you guys understand my team and creds to you guys for knowing about Leonidas. I think I have a great shot if the voter knows about Leonidas - if not - then I am in trouble. He is my teams best player after Didi so hopefully they'll know him/Take the time to learn about him.

Not going to be aggressive in the draft, hopefully Fergus will keep it calm as well I am not sure how he is usually. These drafts are always best when they are more about focus on ones own players and trying to educate the public on them by showing your research etc.

I'm of the same mindset as you mate. I don't think there is actually as much need for in game discussions in this draft as there usually is, seeing as World Cup performances are considered I'd say a lot of the hard work is already done.

I wouldn't mind having my game earlier as well if you'd like it Fergus.

Upto you mate, I'm off until the 2nd so anytime before nye is good with me.

On the whole I think the managers have drafted very astutely. A few players I'm surprised didn't make the cut are:

Kalz, Bossis, Campbell, McGrath, Walker, Zmuda, Lechkov, Burruchaga, Deschamps, Rahn, Finney, Conti, Michel, Rep, Corbatta, Riquelme, Sarosi, Scarone, Orsi, Rahn, Scillachi, Villa, Vieri and Lineker.

In saying that there was a lot of depth in certain positions (striker and centre-half in particular) and a lot of folk were looking for wide players under restrictions, having already shot their load on the pizzazz through the middle.

It's always been that watershed moment. England's record at Wembley gone and grandiose delusions of still leading the world at football demolished, all within the space of 90 minutes.

Others that I was considering: Hassler, Littbarski, Donadoni, Riva, Totti, Bergkamp, Elkjaer

Much of France's success in 1998 was founded on the qualities that Deschamps offered - defensive robustness, graft, self-sacrifice - and he was at the heart of it all in the engine room.

And yes Bossis is a class act, a surprising omission. One of the select few of full-backs who were adept in the centre or at sweeper, showcasing their defensive nous and organisation. And he was very classy on the ball.

I don't think I he offered enough attacking threat to be seriously considered for my RB slot.