Steven Gerrard

[Eric'sCollar]

In regards to footballing ability, Scholes is miles ahead of any of them. No one with a football brain can argue that. However, all have attributes that make them special and tick boxes the others don't. In regards to footballing ability, there is only one at the top.

 

[Barney]

In regards to footballing ability, Scholes is miles ahead of any of them. No one with a football brain can argue that. However, all have attributes that make them special and tick boxes the others don't. In regards to footballing ability, there is only one at the top.

If ability meant you automatically were the best Carragher, Neville and Lampard wouldn't have made it at the very top.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

If ability meant you automatically were the best Carragher, Neville and Lampard wouldn't have made it at the very top.

That's why I said footballing ability. They all have attributes that put them in an argument to be better than the others.

 

[goin4glory]

Keane > Vieira > Gerrard > Scholes IMO.

Lampard is some way off the rest. But let's not start the age old caf debate up again.

Scholes is comfortably the best CM of his generation and most United fans would have him over Keane, he's arguably the best player in the history of United and almost has as as many premiership medals as Veira/Keane/Lampard/Gerrard combined. Maybe if he kissed cameras and badges he would get the credit he deserves.

 

[Raul Madrid]

In regards to footballing ability, Scholes is miles ahead of any of them. No one with a football brain can argue that. However, all have attributes that make them special and tick boxes the others don't. In regards to footballing ability, there is only one at the top.

Scholes is the kind of player that would have suited barcas style of football while gerrard and lampard are the kind of players that Madrid would have (foolishly signed) in recent years imo. They are two players with good stats but struggle to get a grip of the game in the big matches whereas scholes would keep things ticking over and ensure his team has the ball more and has more chances. Thankfully with Alonso and modric we are changing from that, but the fact that barca have been more successful with scholes type players than Madrid with lampard/gerrard type players is enough evidence imo. Even spain vs Holland. Holland with their direct footballers like robben, sneijder, vdv vs spains midfielders that keep the ball and are patient and more controlling shows how much more effective those players are imo.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Scholes is comfortably the best CM of his generation and most United fans would have him over Keane, he's arguably the best player in the history of United and almost has as as many premiership medals as Veira/Keane/Lampard/Gerrard combined. Maybe if he kissed cameras and badges he would get the credit he deserves.

If I cared about this stuff, I'd probably get frustrated at how Scholes won't be recognized as the midfield maestro he was because of how he dealt with the media and his innate personnality. And I don't mean he won't be recognized as a great player, of course he was, but he was up there with the very best that have played the beautiful game and I doubt that will be recognized because of how he acted. But it doesn't really matter, the most important for me was to have had the chance to see him play on such a regular basis.

 

[Varun]

All the bullshit about him and the PL title and being the most deserving player etc etc is already getting me angry. They've not even won it ffs. It'l really be sickening if the cnut lifts the trophy.

Worst thing is, we've done nothing NOTHING to stop them. Lost both games, the 2nd one when everyone knew how big it was and we lost 3-0. feck.

 

[MkPaul]

All the bullshit about him and the PL title and being the most deserving player etc etc is already getting me angry. They've not even won it ffs. It'l really be sickening if the cnut lifts the trophy.

This.

I know it's really bad cause he's an England player and all but it fecking makes me so angry when I see Gerrard happy...
Thankfully I haven't had to put up with it much.

 

[Sky1981]

All the bullshit about him and the PL title and being the most deserving player etc etc is already getting me angry. They've not even won it ffs. It'l really be sickening if the cnut lifts the trophy.

Worst thing is, we've done nothing NOTHING to stop them. Lost both games, the 2nd one when everyone knew how big it was and we lost 3-0. feck.

To be fair, he kinda deserved it the most... lifelong career with nothing to show... he deserve at least 1 to show them off, from a neutral perspective. Scholes / Giggs have gotten so much it's not even worth mentioning Medals, their name and Gerrard's name in the same line.

But, again... credit where it's due, as a neutral, he kinda deserves it, it'll be a great shame if he retired without one

 

[Blasphemy]

Scholes is comfortably the best CM of his generation and most United fans would have him over Keane, he's arguably the best player in the history of United and almost has as as many premiership medals as Veira/Keane/Lampard/Gerrard combined. Maybe if he kissed cameras and badges he would get the credit he deserves.

Xavi's better than Scholes all day long if we're putting them in the same generation. Pirlo will be remembered ahead of him too.

 

[NK86]

Scholes is the kind of player that would have suited barcas style of football while gerrard and lampard are the kind of players that Madrid would have (foolishly signed) in recent years imo. They are two players with good stats but struggle to get a grip of the game in the big matches whereas scholes would keep things ticking over and ensure his team has the ball more and has more chances. Thankfully with Alonso and modric we are changing from that, but the fact that barca have been more successful with scholes type players than Madrid with lampard/gerrard type players is enough evidence imo. Even spain vs Holland. Holland with their direct footballers like robben, sneijder, vdv vs spains midfielders that keep the ball and are patient and more controlling shows how much more effective those players are imo.

That is a poor example to quote. Had it not been for Robben's miss, Holland would have been the champions. Also, Robben is a better player than Gerrard. He is direct but has some fantastic technique to boot as well.

 

[coolredwine]

Xavi's better than Scholes all day long if we're putting them in the same generation. Pirlo will be remembered ahead of him too.

See, that's what this does when one player is the quieter of the other two and doesn't go ga-ga on every other occasion.

All three are on the same level, actually.

 

[NK86]

Xavi's better than Scholes all day long if we're putting them in the same generation. Pirlo will be remembered ahead of him too.

I don't rate Xavi higher than Scholes and definitely don't believe Pirlo is higher than him either. I feel they have been very similar in terms of their standards. I feel what gave Scholes the edge over someone like Xavi was his ability to come up with goals from midfield on a regular basis and many times in crunch situations.

 

[Sky1981]

I do rate Scholes, highly, but IMO he tends to get grossly overrated in here.

 

[NK86]

I do rate Scholes, highly, but IMO he tends to get grossly overrated in here.

How? People just acknowledge he is one of the best midfielders of this generation. How is that overrating him?

 

[Varun]

To be fair, he kinda deserved it the most... lifelong career with nothing to show... he deserve at least 1 to show them off, from a neutral perspective. Scholes / Giggs have gotten so much it's not even worth mentioning Medals, their name and Gerrard's name in the same line.

But, again... credit where it's due, as a neutral, he kinda deserves it, it'll be a great shame if he retired without one

Ofcourse he deserves it, doesnt mean it wont make me sick to see him have one. I want him to end his career without a PL medal. feck deserving it.

 

[Sky1981]

How? People just acknowledge he is one of the best midfielders of this generation. How is that overrating him?

Xavi, Zidane, Boban, Savicevic, Guardiola, Pirlo, Keane, Vierra, Litmanen, etc

He might be one of the best, but the amount of times people simply thinks without argument that he is the best clearly stems from overrating him. He's just

Bellow is the example

Scholes is comfortably the best CM of his generation and most United fans would have him over Keane, he's arguably the best player in the history of United and almost has as as many premiership medals as Veira/Keane/Lampard/Gerrard combined. Maybe if he kissed cameras and badges he would get the credit he deserves.

 

[Varun]

Xavi's better than Scholes all day long if we're putting them in the same generation. Pirlo will be remembered ahead of him too.

What's Xavi so much better at than Scholes? Would Scholes be any worse at doing what Xavi does for Barca? He'd be as good at running the show and be even more of a direct threat in terms of the delivery and goals imo.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

I do not mean this point as a shot at Gerrard, far from it. However, does a player at an average club who has played their whole career there and led their club deserve a Premier League medal? There are plenty of those players.

 

[NK86]

Xavi, Zidane, Boban, Savicevic, Guardiola, Pirlo, Keane, Vierra, Litmanen, etc

He might be one of the best, but the amount of times people simply thinks without argument that he is the best clearly stems from overrating him. He's just

Bellow is the example

See, I don't rate him below Xavi, Pirlo, Keane or Viera at all. If anything I rate him higher than the latter two. So yes, he is up there with the best. The best of the generation? I don't know but he could surely make a case for it. Unfortunately his run in the England team on the right wing did not help him put on the show during the international tournaments.

 

[Varun]

I do not mean this point as a shot at Gerrard, far from it. However, does a player at an average club who has played their whole career there and led their club deserve a Premier League medal? There are plenty of those players.

There really arent plenty of players of Gerrard's quality without a PL medal around.

 

[Sky1981]

What's Xavi so much better at than Scholes? Would Scholes be any worse at doing what Xavi does for Barca? He'd be as good at running the show and be even more of a direct threat in terms of the delivery and goals imo.

Go ahead, make a thread on it. It'll be an interesting discussion "Do you think Scholes is overrated massively in here"

 

[Varun]

Go ahead, make a thread on it. It'll be an interesting discussion "Do you think Scholes is overrated massively in here"

It really wont be as its a United forum. Tell me though, what does Xavi do that Scholes couldnt?

 

[Sky1981]

See, I don't rate him below Xavi, Pirlo, Keane or Viera at all. If anything I rate him higher than the latter two. So yes, he is up there with the best. The best of the generation? I don't know but he could surely make a case for it. Unfortunately his run in the England team on the right wing did not help him put on the show during the international tournaments.

He didn't do enough for me sadly, not enough heroic exploits in the World cup where it matters. Xavi did it, Zidane did it, even the great Keane won't be remembered that much outside United. The united of 99 have so many talents in midfield none of them shines above the rest (giggs/Scholes/Keane/Beckham)

 

[Barney]

Go ahead, make a thread on it. It'll be an interesting discussion "Do you think Scholes is overrated massively in here"

It'd be an awful discussion. 99% of United supporters on here would say no.

I do not mean this point as a shot at Gerrard, far from it. However, does a player at an average club who has played their whole career there and led their club deserve a Premier League medal? There are plenty of those players.

Name me any player who is as good as Gerrard that deserves one.

 

[Sky1981]

It really wont be as its a United forum. Tell me though, what does Xavi do that Scholes couldnt?

Winning the world cup, Euro Cup, being the catalyst for his Team and Country's rise to domination (apart from Messi and Inniesta chipped in). I don't even think people will remember Xavi as great as we remember Zinedine Zidane, much less Scholes.

Don't ask me why, but that's just the view I'm getting. Not many people rate Scholes outside of United

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Yeah I think him being English and England being so poor at international tournaments definitely plays against him, I can understand that (though I tend to give less importance to international football). Xavi on the other hand has been the midfield linchpin of a team that had an unprecedented Euro-WC-Euro win, mainly thanks to a fantastic midfield. Of course that plays in his favour (and in Iniesta). To be fair, we're talking about supremely talented midfielders when we're discussing Pirlo, Scholes, Xavi, it doesn't really matter 'who's better than who' because none of them really is, it's just subjective appreciation. The margins are so small, it's hard to separate them on an objective basis really.

 

[Sky1981]

It'd be an awful discussion. 99% of United supporters on here would say no.



Name me any player who is as good as Gerrard that deserves one.

I don't think it'll be that landsline, the caf are quite known to be fair and objective

And, regarding Gerrard, He really deserves it for sticking with LFC all his career, I don't like it, and I hope he doesn't get it, but feck me yes he deserves it if they eventually win it.

Just like it's a shame that Gascoigne never won anything.

 

[Eric'sCollar]

Name me any player who is as good as Gerrard that deserves one.

My point had nothing to do with his quality. My point is to do with this idea that a one club player deserves a title.

There have been plenty of great players who have not won the title.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Don't ask me why, but that's just the view I'm getting. Not many people rate Scholes outside of United

I don't necessarily disagree with your post, as I said for me the margins are tiny between the caliber of players we're talking about, but your last sentence is absolute nonsense. If anything, Scholes is rated much higher on the continent than in England.

 

[Barney]

Yeah I think him being English and England being so poor at international tournaments definitely plays against him, I can understand that (though I tend to give less importance to international football). Xavi on the other hand has been the midfield linchpin of a team that had an unprecedented Euro-WC-Euro win, mainly thanks to a fantastic midfield. Of course that plays in his favour (and in Iniesta). To be fair, we're talking about supremely talented midfielders when we're discussing Pirlo, Scholes, Xavi, it doesn't really matter 'who's better than who' because none of them really is, it's just subjective appreciation. The margins are so small, it's hard to separate them on an objective basis really.

Xavi was clearly better than Pirlo and Scholes at his peak.

 

[Varun]

Winning the world cup, Euro Cup, being the catalyst for his Team and Country's rise to domination (apart from Messi and Inniesta chipped in). I don't even think people will remember Xavi as great as we remember Zinedine Zidane, much less Scholes.

Don't ask me why, but that's just the view I'm getting. Not many people rate Scholes outside of United

So its his fault England are absolutely shit and Xavi is Spanish? Cmon.

And at the club level, he was as much a catalyst as Xavi is for Barca. Neither of them are players that singlehandedly win trophies for their clubs. Both are absolutely vital pegs though.

 

[Varun]

Xavi was clearly better than Pirlo and Scholes at his peak.

I ask you what I asked Sky, what did Xavi at his peak at Barca do that Scholes couldnt? Put it this way, Scholes in place of Xavi in that same system, what would he fail to do that Xavi did?

 

[Bojan11]

It really wont be as its a United forum. Tell me though, what does Xavi do that Scholes couldnt?

Xavi was brilliant in every big game I seen him at his peak. I sadly can't say the same for Scholes. Xavi is also a better short passer and Scholes is a better long passer.

 

[Sky1981]

So its his fault England are absolutely shit and Xavi is Spanish? Cmon.

And at the club level, he was as much a catalyst as Xavi is for Barca. Neither of them are players that singlehandedly win trophies for their clubs. Both are absolutely vital pegs though.

Probably not, but is it Messi's fault Barcelona are so damn good that people never rated him equally with Maradona because Maradona win it "ONCE" with Napoli?

I'm not talking about fair, but that's just the way it is

 

[Barney]

I ask you what I asked Sky, what did Xavi at his peak at Barca do that Scholes couldnt? Put it this way, Scholes in place of Xavi in that same system, what would he fail to do that Xavi did?

He controlled games more regularly, his passing, particularly his penatrative passing was at a higher level, his reading of the game and defensive work is miles better than Scholes too. Xavi had a more consistent peak.

 

[Varun]

Xavi was brilliant in every big game I seen him at his peak. I sadly can't say the same for Scholes. Xavi is also a better short passer and Scholes is a better long passer.

Brilliant in every game? I will gladly accept that I havent watched every game of his but surely you see that cannot be true? Even Messi isnt brilliant in every game and he's a bloody freak.

And regarding the short passing bit, its more to do with the teams that these 2 played in than their abilities. United with the system of 2 CMs, 2 wide wingers and 2 strikers upfront is as inconducive as it gets to replicate Barca's/Xavi's short passing game. Even then, Scholes's ability to make the quick short pass, make a quick dart to make himself available again for the return pass and to get things moving again was absolutely top drawer. Tell me this, Xavi at United, you think he'd find it as easy as he did at Barca to make 100 passes a game including all those short passes?

 

[Sky1981]

I ask you what I asked Sky, what did Xavi at his peak at Barca do that Scholes couldnt? Put it this way, Scholes in place of Xavi in that same system, what would he fail to do that Xavi did?

Managed not only to boss the midfield, but actually winning the match where it matters (World cup final, Euro Final, CL final) When the margin is so small, people will naturally look into these sort of things to separate the Best of the best and the one of the best.

Just like Gerrard will never be remembered in the tier of Zidane. Because... he's just a loyal very good player in the Liverpool team.. once.. and will fade along the memory of non liverpool fans.

 

[Bojan11]

Brilliant in every game? I will gladly accept that I havent watched every game of his but surely you see that cannot be true? Even Messi isnt brilliant in every game and he's a bloody freak.

And regarding the short passing bit, its more to do with the teams that these 2 played in than their abilities. United with the system of 2 CMs, 2 wide wingers and 2 strikers upfront is as inconducive as it gets to replicate Barca's/Xavi's short passing game. Even then, Scholes's ability to make the quick short pass, make a quick dart to make himself available again for the return pass and to get things moving again was absolutely top drawer. Tell me this, Xavi at United, you think he'd find it as easy as he did at Barca to make 100 passes a game including all those short passes?

I said brilliant in every big game I seen him in.

I've seen Scholes disappear a few times against the big boys in Europe and Arsenal in the league, when they were good.

 

[Varun]

He controlled games more regularly, his passing, particularly his penatrative passing was at a higher level, his reading of the game and defensive work is miles better than Scholes too.

He controlled games because that's how Barca set up. United never setup to control games. You cannot make 100 passes a game when you have just 1 CM next to you, 2 strikers upfront and 2 wide wingers waiting for long diagonals. The system Barca played was tailormade for Xavi to control games and make those 100 passes a game. It doesnt make him the better passer than Scholes and certainly doesnt make him better at running games seeing as Scholes dictated our play under much tougher circumstances.

And I simply cannot take your opinion seriously if you think Xavi's reading of the game was miles ahead of Scholesy's, no offence.

Probably not, but is it Messi's fault Barcelona are so damn good that people never rated him equally with Maradona because Maradona win it "ONCE" with Napoli?

I'm not talking about fair, but that's just the way it is

When did I say its Xavi's fault? But its daft to rate Xavi higher than Scholes because he won the WC, well, England are shite and a CM alone cannot change that. If Scholes was Spanish and Xavi English, would you simply rate Scholes much higher because of that? If yes, then you see the logic is flawed. If No, why not when you're willing to do the same when the roles are reversed?