- Joined
- Jun 5, 2000
- Messages
- 41,730
I'd only agree with that sentiment if RVP makes it obvious he wants to go. In which case, he could sod off. If he wants to stay, I love him deeply.We should keep both Welbeck and Hernandez.
Bye bye Van Persie.
I'd only agree with that sentiment if RVP makes it obvious he wants to go. In which case, he could sod off. If he wants to stay, I love him deeply.We should keep both Welbeck and Hernandez.
Bye bye Van Persie.
Are those stats for this season? Hernandez's minutes have been compromised of those several sub appearances from the 75th minute of the game where Moyes just sends him on without any real strategy in our attacking play whereas Welbeck gets a lot of proper game time. And further more, Hernandez has had a confidence crisis, one which most strikers goes through in their careers. His NT performances have also been affected due to that. I remember Hernandez has missed quite a few good chances which he would otherwise dispatch with ease. Maybe a consistent run of games started would have cured the problem. I think if Hernandez would have been given even decent opportunities this season(just 5 starts in the PL against Welbeck's 13), he would have come up with a lot more goals than Welbeck which is ultimately what matters no matter how good you are outside the box or what you contribute to the play. Especially in a season like the one we had this year.I'd argue that's because not only has Welbeck played better overall but he's scored at a higher rate. Hernández's record in the league is a goal every 170 minutes compared to Welbeck's goal every 140 minutes. He went 447 minutes without scoring a goal between November and January. He hasn't played very often but for the vast majority of the season, when he did play he was substandard. There's no point in playing him when the team are playing poorly because he offers so little - see the home losses against West Brom or Newcastle. He's started playing well now because the team are playing well and when that's the case he is lethal, but for so much of the season we've struggled to create and Hernández is only going to compound that issue.
He is not going to get that chance as long as Rooney and Van Persie are at the club. He suffers, as with Welbeck, with the fact that United have 4 strikers in the first team squad, where's as most of the top teams in Europe manage quite fine with a maximum of 3, playing one up. With Welbeck progressing this season and being a local lad from the academy, Rooney just signed a new contract and Van Persie still got 2 years of his contact to run, the future looks bleak for Hernandez in terms of playing time,especially with no CL football next year. Hernandez being the cheap foreign import with his obvious limitations, is the more dispensable of the 4 strikers, especially if he doesn't feel like he is getting enough games.I think that's debatable. He's not had any chance to get a bit of momentum in order to play to his full potential.
Imo, a team with Januzaj and Hernandez will score goals.
Welbeck is erratic. I have very little faith in him. His strengths may be Chico's weaknesses, but his weaknesses are Chico's strengths. Chico's peformance against Newcastle is better than anything Danny has come up with this year. Happy for him to prove me wrong though - I don't care who scores as long as someone does.
I know things have changed but it worked with Cole, Yorke, Solskjaer and Sheringham. But more to the point, RVP and Rooney have been out of the side a lot, so imo there's been no excuse for Chico not getting more opportunities than he has been given.He is not going to get that chance as long as Rooney and Van Persie are at the club. He suffers, as with Welbeck, with the fact that United have 4 strikers in the first team squad, where's as most of the top teams in Europe manage quite fine with a maximum of 3, playing one up. With Welbeck progressing this season and being a local lad from the academy, Rooney just signed a new contract and Van Persie still got 2 years of his contact to run, the future looks bleak for Hernandez in terms of playing time,especially with no CL football next year. Hernandez being the cheap foreign import with his obvious limitations, is the more dispensable of the 4 strikers, especially if he doesn't feel like he is getting enough games.
But all Hernandez does is score goals. We dont need a player who runs defenders ragged and stretches the play...So has a brilliant game against Newcastle and this is his reward.
Moyes seems to have no idea how to keep players happy.
He's been great since he came on. Running at players, bringing people into the game, trying to run the line. Only United player to look decent frankly.If he does come on, I'm sure he'd do his best, but what motivation is there for him. He must be totally disillusioned.
Januzaj has been managed well by Moyes - the best thing he has done this season without a shred of a doubt.Maybe idealistic, but I wonder how he would have done with Januzaj to supply him.
I think Giggs has had more games than Adnan, which is ridiculous.
we should do our best to keep him, unfortunately we wont.If he does come on, I'm sure he'd do his best, but what motivation is there for him. He must be totally disillusioned.
Moyes is wrapping as we speakA player with heart. Would be a mistake to let him go.
This. Fletch and Rooney should've both done better. Hernandez was our most dangerous player today, and while everyone else deserved nothing, he deserved something. If Chico ends up at Atleti or something he'll be a great replacement for Diego Costa if he ends up being sold to Chelsea or whoever. I'll be sad though.I would almost hold it against him if he doesn't go after the season. He plays with heart and is a terrific player, but he can't even get a start when Rooney is clearly off the boil or even injured. It's pathetic managing from Moyes.
He surprised me today with his drubbling. He dribbled three defenders before playing a perfect pass to Fletcher in a perfect position to score. Then he set Rooney up for what should have been a goal. Motm for me today.
Fergie was able to protect younger players, like Giggs and Ronaldo, because there were other players good enough to do the same job.Januzaj has been managed well by Moyes - the best thing he has done this season without a shred of a doubt.
That can't be right. He is useless apart from scoring goals. He won't be missedI would almost hold it against him if he doesn't go after the season. He plays with heart and is a terrific player, but he can't even get a start when Rooney is clearly off the boil or even injured. It's pathetic managing from Moyes.
He surprised me today with his drubbling. He dribbled three defenders before playing a perfect pass to Fletcher in a perfect position to score. Then he set Rooney up for what should have been a goal. Motm for me today.
Let's not be too harsh on Fergie for that one. In all fairness, RVP was superb last season and we'd have struggled to win the title without him.In 2011/12 Hernandez started 18 league games up front and Welbeck started 19. In the two years since then they've had 14 and 11 respectively and now both apparently want to leave, while a creaking RVP will probably never play more than three games in a row for us again.
Heck of a signing there, Fergie.
At the moment we won last season's title we had 84 points after 34 games. Season before, with no RVP, we had 82. RVP was great, for one season, but his signing shat all over several players and considering that they're all much younger, and he's now permacrocked, we're going to be suffering for that for a long time.Let's not be too harsh on Fergie for that one. In all fairness, RVP was superb last season and we'd have struggled to win the title without him.
I'll admit that it may not have been wise long term, but at the time it was clearly a very good signing. Whatever way you spin it, it's clear that his purchase that year was crucial in us winning the title. 82 points at that stage the year before is irrelevant when you consider how valuable RVP was at times in the 2012/2013 season. For the money we got him as well, it was a good deal despite that position not being the immediate priority.At the moment we won last season's title we had 84 points after 34 games. Season before, with no RVP, we had 82. RVP was great, for one season, but his signing shat all over several players and considering that they're all much younger, and he's now permacrocked, we're going to be suffering for that for a long time.
Did he mean RVP? I thought he meant Moyes.In 2011/12 Hernandez started 18 league games up front and Welbeck started 19. In the two years since then they've had 14 and 11 respectively and now both apparently want to leave, while a creaking RVP will probably never play more than three games in a row for us again.
Heck of a signing there, Fergie.
Short-termism is anathema to this club's identity and to the unprecedented success it has experienced in the last few decades.I'll admit that it may not have been wise long term
Why would we not have won last season's title without him? Year before we scored more goals.Whatever way you spin it, it's clear that his purchase that year was crucial in us winning the title. 82 points at that stage the year before is irrelevant when you consider how valuable RVP was at times in the 2012/2013 season.
I'll admit that it may not have been wise long term, but at the time it was clearly a very good signing. Whatever way you spin it, it's clear that his purchase that year was crucial in us winning the title. 82 points at that stage the year before is irrelevant when you consider how valuable RVP was at times in the 2012/2013 season. For the money we got him as well, it was a good deal despite that position not being the immediate priority.
Did he mean RVP? I thought he meant Moyes.
This argument is academic anyway because Fergie was going to sell Rooney had he stayed. That was proved by Sir Alex's decision to start Hernandez with Van Persie for the last couple of games last season.Short-termism is anathema to this club's identity and to the unprecedented success it has experienced in the last few decades.
Why would we not have won last season's title without him? Year before we scored more goals.
The year before is fecking irrelevant here in this case. RVP was crucial to us in the 2012/2013 season, whatever way you look at it. As much as I like Welbeck and Hernandez, they wouldn't have been able to do what RVP did and score the number of goals he did. Without RVP, we'd have undoubtedly struggled to win the title.Why would we not have won last season's title without him? Year before we scored more goals.
And? Last season, without RVP, we wouldn't have scored more goals. We wouldn't have scored the same amount of goals. We would have scored less goals. And in all likelihood, we wouldn't have won the title.Short-termism is anathema to this club's identity and to the unprecedented success it has experienced in the last few decades.
Why would we not have won last season's title without him? Year before we scored more goals.
Why? City dropped substantially from their level the previous season, why would what we had not have been enough when it had been so brilliant the year before?The year before is fecking irrelevant here in this case. RVP was crucial to us in the 2012/2013 season, whatever way you look at it. As much as I like Welbeck and Hernandez, they wouldn't have been able to do what RVP did and score the number of goals he did. Without RVP, we'd have undoubtedly struggled to win the title.
You mean where we were when they did lead the line for us? CL finalists, title contenders, champions of England, that kind of thing?I like Hernandez and Welbeck, but to be honest I'm not sure either will ever be good enough to lead the line for us as a first team starter if we want to get back to where we were.
Again, why would we have scored less?We would have scored less goals.
We won the league when Hernandez led the line in 10/11. Welbeck has never been as decisive for us. The season after that we won nothing, the season after that RVP signed and Welbeck was out left most of the time or on the bench.You mean where we were when they did lead the line for us? CL finalists, title contenders, champions of England, that kind of thing?
We won the league with Hernandez, then we spent a year alternating between the two of them and got nine more points and a bucketload more goals, and were incredibly unlucky not to win the title.We won the league when Hernandez led the line in 10/11. Welbeck has never been as decisive for us. The season after that we won nothing, the season after that RVP signed and Welbeck was out left most of the time or on the bench.
Because we didn't have RVP scoring goals for us.Why? City dropped substantially from their level the previous season, why would what we had not have been enough when it had been so brilliant the year before?
You mean where we were when they did lead the line for us? CL finalists, title contenders, champions of England, that kind of thing?
Again, why would we have scored less?
We bottled the league in the final 5 games, lost to Liverpool in the FA cup, lost to Crystal Palace in the Carling Cup, got knocked out of Europe in the group stages by Basel, went to the Europa League and got hammered by Bilbao.We won the league with Hernandez, then we spent a year alternating between the two of them and got nine more points and a bucketload more goals, and were incredibly unlucky not to win the title.
Yeah, we went on an awful run of winning 11 out of 12 league matches in the new year. I'm glad we're not that awful now.We were awful that year after we lost 6-1 against City.
What on earth are you babbling about?So we shouldn't have sold Ruud in 2006, right?
From the same place we got the exact same fecking number of points the season before RVP signed. The players who his signing fecked over, the ones who now either want to leave or had to bribed a small fortune to stay. You know, the ones who are actually fit much of the time and aren't over 30.With no RVP, where are those points coming from?